For now just that there isn't anything making the captives convey that particular message, without any troops.
The gist of the message is still going to spread. This way, they can't say we didn't warn them, and we are publicly seen to have announced what will happen on the legion's return.

Edit:
Grumbling might be an issue? Presumably the legions expect proceeds from slave sales and the like, especially from men worth following.
No doubt, but the proceeds from 150 slaves split 3000 ways don't constitute very much loot compared to what's likely to be waiting for us at Nola.
 
The gist of the message is still going to spread. This way, they can't say we didn't warn them, and we are publicly seen to have announced what will happen on the legion's return.

No doubt, but the proceeds from 150 slaves split 3000 ways don't constitute very much loot compared to what's likely to be waiting for us at Nola.
Mmm, but that will probably be Sertorius' gift, not ours. Still, you're right that it's not a large sum per legionary.
 
There is also the fact that attacking tercerus might rally the people behind him.

Tercerian, you mean?

(Trips me up to; it's only blind luck I haven't made that switch)

Well, that's a possibility. On the other hand, by all reports he's very unpopular. He's been robbing his fellow Samnites for months, but he hasn't done anything consequential against the Romans. Even while Gemino was hopping all over around Bovianum and trying to knock us off balance with only five hundred men, Tercerian was sitting on his butt in the Vulturnus valley with three thousand men, a force theoretically large enough to dislodge us. He didn't move then, except to raid and rob the western villages.

It is quite likely that the only thing holding him in power is the threat of force from his troops- that he has lost legitimacy as a rebel and is now in effect just a big warlord. The catch is, he's a big enough warlord that putting him down with half the legion under our command would be exceeding the scope of our orders and likely to inflict heavy damage on our half of the legion.

The biggest distinction we've seen in northern Samnium has been between those who are ideologically committed to opposing Rome (who are willing to threaten and rob their fellow Samnites to keep up the fight) and those who would honestly prefer to just stop fighting as long as they get that which has always been the desperate cry of the peasants in any wartorn land throughout history: "Peace, Land, Bread!"

By not robbing or torturing or destroying the peasantry, and by showing clemency to men who were in all likelihood mostly at least as interested in defending their own villages from Tercerian than they were in fighting the Romans, we open up the path to the end of the war. Furthermore, these men are going to collective act as our envoys back to the general public. Even if the exact words of our message are a bit garbled, the intent will spread fairly clearly by osmosis- we're coming back, and we're going to flatten anyone opposed to Rome, while sparing those who support Rome.

Mmm, but that will probably be Sertorius' gift, not ours. Still, you're right that it's not a large sum per legionary.
Well, you're perfectly welcome to put up a 'Vae Victis' plan in which the prisoners are sold into slavery, and I'm not going to tell you that such a plan is wrong in context.

But I wanted a plan that puts all our able-bodied fighting men around Nola as fast as possible, while doing what we can to spread a 'quick and dirty' message that we'll be back to finish pacifying this part of the region shortly. If we're lucky, maybe Tercerian's army will start dismantling itself once they realize what's happened to Gemino, what's about to happen to Nola, and what will happen to them if Sertorius has to come up this way to wrap his campaign up in a ribbon and stamp it 'DONE.'
 
My honest impression is that the people who want to do that are a loud minority. We haven't actually seen people vote on it yet.
 
Agreed. I was convinced pretty much from your initial post that pointed out: we have a morale advantage thanks to the prophecy, so let's use it on the Big Bad rather than the lesser baddies.

If it turns out that the "attack Tercerian" is winning, then I'll worry, but otherwise I'm pretty sure things will be fine.
 
[] Plan Simplicity
-[] Turn and march immediately for Nola, in order to reinforce Sertorius and the Hirpini in the siege.
-[] Execute the Prisoners

Keep it simple, stupid. This is war, we've captured rebels and traitors. Execution of a rebel army would be expected. Selling them into slavery could potentially harm relations, but slavery in this period would be expected. Letting them go is the worst option to me. I recall the passage that stated that many of Gemino's scattered forces have devolved into banditry. I fear releasing 150 former rebels just means 100+ banditry in the future. Not everyone is going to have an intact farm to go back to, or may want to go back to farming. Take the neutral option, remove the threat, kill the rebels and be done with it. No one is going to bat an eyelash.

Helping our boss is also paramount.
 
I don't see how killing them is going to be more 'neutral' and less likely to upset people than selling them into slavery in this era.

I also think it is rather unwise for Atellus to cultivate a reputation for killing people who try to surrender to him. That wasn't somehow normative even in ancient times, or insofar as it was, it just meant people fought to the death more often. I for one am just as glad that those extra 150 Samnites didn't think it wise to fight to the death and take several dozen Romans with them.
 
With apologies if I have mangled the Latin:

[] Plan Celeritas et Clementia
-[] Reassign able-bodied men from the Second Cohort to fill out the other cohorts' ranks. Transfer walking wounded who cannot keep pace or fight effectively to the Second, in like number.
-[] Send Pompolussa, what remains of the Second Cohort, Himatus and his men back to Bovianum along with all the wounded, to ensure the supply train stays secured. Task them with keeping an ear out for Tercerian in case he tries to attack Bovianum or attempts to aid the rebels in Nola by attacking your cohorts from the rear.
-[] Inform the captured rebels that they will be forgiven for following Gemino and allowed to return to their homes, on two conditions. Any who do not swear to these two conditions have refused Rome's clemency, and will be sold into slavery.
--[] Firstly, the captives will receive a scarring notch on their right earlobe. If any man so marked ever abuses Rome's clemency by standing in her way again, that man will be crucified.
--[] Secondly, the captives must convey a message to their home villages: Bovianum bent the knee to Rome. On that day, Bovianum chose to meet Rome's open hand. Gemino, in his arrogance, persecuted Bovianum. On that day, Gemino chose to face Rome's sword hand. The sword has fallen. Gemino is dead. Soon, the legion will return. All villages that bend the knee to Rome will not be harmed, as Bovianum was not harmed. All those thieves and bandits who have persecuted those villages will be destroyed by the sword of Rome, as I have destroyed Gemino. Wherever those who persecute the villages may be, and however strong they may appear, they will be destroyed. Remember, and beware!
-[] With the rest of the cohorts (excepting the rump of the Second), slightly filled out by troops drawn from the Second, march immediately to Nola in order to reinforce Sertorius and the Hirpini in the siege.

...

Note: We have about three hundred dead or fully incapacitated, as I understand it. A cohort consists of roughly 500 men. Since our losses were distributed among multiple cohorts, while the Second has no doubt taken heavy casualties, there must surely be enough men left standing in the Second to replenish the losses of the other cohorts, at the cost of leaving the Second greatly understrength. The Second is thus a token garrison, which will fill out slightly as the walking wounded from the other cohorts recover.

In this way, we get all the able-bodied men fit to fight, less a small guard put on the wounded, to Nola as fast as we can, as per Sertorius's orders.

Any suggestions?
While I prefer my own plan, mainly due to being a bit turned off by the narrative of the 'marking the captives' write-in, you can be sure that I'd much prefer it to any plan going for Tercerian. I also like about this plan that it, opposed to some of the 'Rush to Nola'-plans, at least attempts to engage Bovanium and the western towns through its write-ins.
The main worry I have here is that it leaves a very undermanned cohort in Bovanium. The 2nd will regain some strength as time passes, but by rotating troops and 'assigning' all our casualties to the Second, I expect we'll leave this cohort - on paper - with 100-200 dead men in its ranks. I would rather leave the 300-400 man cohort - made up of mostly injured soldiers - at a real Roman city.
My plan was to give them a few days to recuperate in Bovanium, before marching south. I would then leave all those too heavily injured in Beneventum and reshuffle the cohorts as needed at that point. This would allow us to take as much strength as possible to Nola. I'll admit it leaves Bovanium to itself, but that is a risk I'm willing to take. Real threats to the town, like Tercerian, would probably just annihilate the 'injured' 2nd and we would be at fault for putting them there. The smaller threats like any small remaining bands of rebels and bandits, should in my opinion be dealt with by the Pentri themselves anyway.
 
[x] Turn and march immediately for Nola, in order to reinforce Sertorius and the Hirpini in the siege.
[x] Sell them into slavery, both increasing your own personal coffers and gaining more money for the legion.
 
[X] Plan Hearts, Minds & the Legion's purse
-[x]
Send Mercator and the 7th cohort immediately back to Nola, he is to inform Sertorius of your success, thank him for the assistance provided and inform him that you plan to follow soon.
-[x] Send Pompolussa's 2nd and the 6th cohort, together with all the wounded, ahead to Bovianum to better tend to the injured, and ensure that the supply lines stay secured until you return from the western towns.
-[x] Take the 3rd & 9th cohorts as well as the Gallic auxiliaries to pacify the western towns that supported Gemino, and ensure that the entire region is solidly under Roman control.
-[x] March the captives back to the western towns, there you offer their families a chance to ransom them at affordable rates. This offer only extends to those you determine to having recently been levied from the western towns. The rest are to be sold as slaves.
 
[X] Plan Hearts, Minds & the Legion's purse
-[x]
Send Mercator and the 7th cohort immediately back to Nola, he is to inform Sertorius of your success, thank him for the assistance provided and inform him that you plan to follow soon.
-[x] Send Pompolussa's 2nd and the 6th cohort, together with all the wounded, ahead to Bovianum to better tend to the injured, and ensure that the supply lines stay secured until you return from the western towns.
-[x] Take the 3rd & 9th cohorts as well as the Gallic auxiliaries to pacify the western towns that supported Gemino, and ensure that the entire region is solidly under Roman control.
-[x] March the captives back to the western towns, there you offer their families a chance to ransom them at affordable rates. This offer only extends to those you determine to having recently been levied from the western towns. The rest are to be sold as slaves.
 
-[] March the captives back to the western towns, there you offer their families a chance to ransom them at affordable rates. This offer only extends to those you determine to having recently been levied from the western towns. The rest are to be sold as slaves.

@Spacegnom , this and other talk in the thread about ransom gave me the following idea:

Article:
[] Gift the prisoners to the Hematius household for ransom and loyalty The household will dispose of them as it sees fit, keeping them captive until their dependents and relatives pay for them, or set them free after credible oaths to reject the rebellion.
Here's some reasons why it's good:

- The Hematius household really came through for us when the rest of the Bovianum nobles shuffled their feet, they richly deserve a substantial reward for their help
- It strengthens our future client in Rome
- it extracts more value per prisoner and in total compared to selling them on the open market (where they are damaged goods) by leveraging local knowledge about their personal relations
- the loyalty of a released prisoner is much easier to ensure if it is towards a particular household
- Instead of diluting the value across a half-legion, it has a considerable and substantial value for a smaller entity like the household.

Thoughts? Would you consider replacing your own write-in with this?

Input by anybody else also very welcome.
 
@Spacegnom , this and other talk in the thread about ransom gave me the following idea:

Article:
[] Gift the prisoners to the Hematius household for ransom and loyalty The household will dispose of them as it sees fit, keeping them captive until their dependents and relatives pay for them, or set them free after credible oaths to reject the rebellion.
Here's some reasons why it's good:

- The Hematius household really came through for us when the rest of the Bovianum nobles shuffled their feet, they richly deserve a substantial reward for their help
- It strengthens our future client in Rome
- it extracts more value per prisoner and in total compared to selling them on the open market (where they are damaged goods) by leveraging local knowledge about their personal relations
- the loyalty of a released prisoner is much easier to ensure if it is towards a particular household
- Instead of diluting the value across a half-legion, it has a considerable and substantial value for a smaller entity like the household.

Thoughts? Would you consider replacing your own write-in with this?

Input by anybody else also very welcome.
Interesting idea, but I'm not really comfortable including it in my own plan.
For one, Himatus household guard is only 30-40 people, so I could see him having some problem keeping tabs on so many prisoners.
Himatus came through for us yes, but he did so because he wants our support back in Rome. I don't think he cares that much about the profits from selling these slave. If we want to reward him (and his men), then surely there will be options available for that upon our return.
Also, this write-in is probably even more upsetting to our legionaries. While the household guards were useful as scouts, I don't think they did much of the fighting. The pay off for selling these slaves might be little, but it will at least be something. Let's not forget, the whole Bovanium-'campaign' has seen us no loot to distribute this far.
 
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[x] Turn and march immediately for Nola, in order to reinforce Sertorius and the Hirpini in the siege.
[x] Sell them into slavery, both increasing your own personal coffers and gaining more money for the legion.

Simple, easy.
 
@Spacegnom , this and other talk in the thread about ransom gave me the following idea:

Article:
[] Gift the prisoners to the Hematius household for ransom and loyalty The household will dispose of them as it sees fit, keeping them captive until their dependents and relatives pay for them, or set them free after credible oaths to reject the rebellion.
Here's some reasons why it's good:

- The Hematius household really came through for us when the rest of the Bovianum nobles shuffled their feet, they richly deserve a substantial reward for their help
- It strengthens our future client in Rome
- it extracts more value per prisoner and in total compared to selling them on the open market (where they are damaged goods) by leveraging local knowledge about their personal relations
- the loyalty of a released prisoner is much easier to ensure if it is towards a particular household
- Instead of diluting the value across a half-legion, it has a considerable and substantial value for a smaller entity like the household.

Thoughts? Would you consider replacing your own write-in with this?
The legion's likely to be more upset by us giving the loot from their battle to a half-barbarian client of ours than they would be by us just giving the loot up entirely. Letting the prisoners go is at least an act of mercy that may serve other purposes. Giving all the potential wealth they COULD have gotten to one man is not.

Also, Himatus is a known Roman collaborator; if there are any pro-Gemino true believers among the prisoners (I doubt there are many) we've just handed Marius Himatus a bunch of slaves who will want to assassinate him.



[X] Plan Celeritas et Clementia
-[X] Reassign able-bodied men from the Second Cohort to fill out the other cohorts' ranks. Transfer walking wounded who cannot keep pace or fight effectively to the Second, in like number.
-[X] Send Pompolussa, what remains of the Second Cohort, Himatus and his men back to Bovianum along with all the wounded, to ensure the supply train stays secured. Task them with keeping an ear out for Tercerian in case he tries to attack Bovianum or attempts to aid the rebels in Nola by attacking your cohorts from the rear.
-[X] Inform the captured rebels that they will be forgiven for following Gemino and allowed to return to their homes, on two conditions. Any who do not swear to these two conditions have refused Rome's clemency, and will be sold into slavery.
--[X] Firstly, the captives will receive a scarring notch on their right earlobe. If any man so marked ever abuses Rome's clemency by standing in her way again, that man will be crucified.
--[X] Secondly, the captives must convey a message to their home villages: Bovianum bent the knee to Rome. On that day, Bovianum chose to meet Rome's open hand. Gemino, in his arrogance, persecuted Bovianum. On that day, Gemino chose to face Rome's sword hand. The sword has fallen. Gemino is dead. Soon, the legion will return. All villages that bend the knee to Rome will not be harmed, as Bovianum was not harmed. All those thieves and bandits who have persecuted those villages will be destroyed by the sword of Rome, as I have destroyed Gemino. Wherever those who persecute the villages may be, and however strong they may appear, they will be destroyed. Remember, and beware!
-[X] With the rest of the cohorts (excepting the rump of the Second), slightly filled out by troops drawn from the Second, march immediately to Nola in order to reinforce Sertorius and the Hirpini in the siege.

...

So basically, this is a plan "Speed and Mercy."

It plans for letting the prisoners go, with at least some provision made to ensure that they don't just go straight back to banditry (because they will be torturously killed if we ever find any of them doing that again). The scar on the ear is a bit rough by modern standards, but that kind of punishment for banditry or other crimes in the ancient world was common, as were worse scarrings and mutilations.

In addition, I try getting some propaganda value out of them.

Moreover, this plan sticks to the spirit of Sertorius's orders. Instead of sending him some of our men and the rest in a few days, we have just about the entire able-bodied force of the legion mobilized and marching to meet Sertorius within a day or so of our battle with Gemino, which was in turn only a few short days after Sertorius ordered us to "mop up the rebels and come meet me at Nola."

"Hearts, Minds, & the Legion's Purse," by contrast, takes several days and withholds a full cohort (the Sixth) from Sertorius. While I can see the military logic of doing so, it really isn't within our authority to make that decision. Indeed, I only justify leaving the Second behind because we're going to be transferring most of the MEN of the Second that are still capable of fighting to the other cohorts, leaving them with only, oh... 150-200 soldiers plus some walking wounded likely to recover and return to duty.

And yes, that's a small garrison. I'm aware of this. But Sertorius said to send everyone, and we have reason to expect this war to be over quickly. If it looks to be taking much longer, we can petition Sertorius to reinforce Bovianum.
 
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The legion's likely to be more upset by us giving the loot from their battle to a half-barbarian client of ours than they would be by us just giving the loot up entirely. Letting the prisoners go is at least an act of mercy that may serve other purposes. Giving all the potential wealth they COULD have gotten to oneman is not.

Also, Himatus is a known Roman collaborator; if there are any pro-Gemino true believers among the prisoners (I doubt there are many) we've just handed Marius Himatus a bunch of slaves who will want to assassinate him.

That's why the idea is more to ransom them than to keep them as slaves. Even for him, that's a better way to make money, see below. If he really wants to keep some as slaves, he would be aware of the risk and we can assume he would make judicious choices.

so I could see him having some problem keeping tabs on so many prisoners.

That's no problem, we can just lend him some manpower in support, which we would have to do anyway if we handled them ourselves.

Also, this write-in is probably even more upsetting to our legionaries.

That's not something they have to know, as far as they are concerned they are prisoners of war kept as hostages until further notice. The legionnaires are also aware that they aren't worth much at all, see below.

(where they are damaged goods)

I think I need to elaborate on that, since so many are thinking they are some great prize as slaves.

They have some of the worst traits for slaves. Former freeman? check. Rebel? check. Italian? check.

That's the kind of slave that you normally send to the salt mines.

It's begging for your slave to run off at the drop of a hat or knife you as soon as you don't have at least one eye open.

You'd be very lucky to get as much as half-price, and more probably you won't get much more than 1/10th of the price of a standard basic labourer.

Our legionnaires will be well aware of that.

Enslavement of this kind makes sense when you don't give two shits whether they live or die, and you can't sell corpses but you can sell slaves, and any money at all is better than no money. But here and it has important effects whether they live and die, and how they do that. Effects that completely overwhelm in importance for the conduct of the campaign whatever market value they may have.
 
[X] Plan Moving Forward
-[X] Turn and march immediately for Nola, in order to reinforce Sertorius and the Hirpini in the siege.
-[X] Sell them into slavery, both increasing your own personal coffers and gaining more money for the legion.
 
[X] Plan Hearts, Minds & the Legion's purse
-[x]
Send Mercator and the 7th cohort immediately back to Nola, he is to inform Sertorius of your success, thank him for the assistance provided and inform him that you plan to follow soon.
-[x] Send Pompolussa's 2nd and the 6th cohort, together with all the wounded, ahead to Bovianum to better tend to the injured, and ensure that the supply lines stay secured until you return from the western towns.
-[x] Take the 3rd & 9th cohorts as well as the Gallic auxiliaries to pacify the western towns that supported Gemino, and ensure that the entire region is solidly under Roman control.
-[x] March the captives back to the western towns, there you offer their families a chance to ransom them at affordable rates. This offer only extends to those you determine to having recently been levied from the western towns. The rest are to be sold as slaves.
 
That's not something they have to know, as far as they are concerned they are prisoners of war kept as hostages until further notice. The legionnaires are also aware that they aren't worth much at all, see below.
Misleading the legion (e.g. letting Himatus profit from the captives and not sharing that profit with the legion) is going to make the legion upset later. Our reputation for honesty is important, and anything related to loot and pay is a major sore spot for the legions.

I think I need to elaborate on that, since so many are thinking they are some great prize as slaves.

They have some of the worst traits for slaves. Former freeman? check. Rebel? check. Italian? check.

That's the kind of slave that you normally send to the salt mines.

It's begging for your slave to run off at the drop of a hat or knife you as soon as you don't have at least one eye open.

You'd be very lucky to get as much as half-price, and more probably you won't get much more than 1/10th of the price of a standard basic labourer.

Our legionnaires will be well aware of that.

Enslavement of this kind makes sense when you don't give two shits whether they live or die, and you can't sell corpses but you can sell slaves, and any money at all is better than no money. But here and it has important effects whether they live and die, and how they do that. Effects that completely overwhelm in importance for the conduct of the campaign whatever market value they may have.
This is a valid argument, but it's also a valid argument for just letting them go: they'd be worth very little as slaves and we're in a hurry.

This is basically my argument for Celeritas et Clementia, in that it moves quickly to Sertorius's side, without allowing ourselves to get sidetracked.
 
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