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Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome

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[X] Plan Far-Seeing Legate
Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on Feb 3, 2018 at 10:28 AM, finished with 26 posts and 23 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on Feb 3, 2018 at 10:28 AM, finished with 26 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] Plan Far-Seeing Legate
    -[X] The Patrician
    -[x] War
    -[X] Speech
    -[x] The Gift of Minerva
    [X] Plan Tribonian Comes 600 Years Early
    [X] Plan Virtus
    -[X] The Patrician
    -[x] War
    -[X] Speech
    -[X] The Gift of Mars
    [X] Plan Deal-maker
    -[X] The Patrician
    -[X] Law
    -[X] Trade
    -[X] The Gift of Mercury
    [X] Plan Cursus Honorum
    - [X] The New Man
    - [X] War
    - [X] Law
    - [X] The Gift of Minerva
    [X] The PatricianYou are a patrican, the true nobility of Rome, the upper class of the Republic. Yours is an ancient family, hailing back to the very founding of Rome itself. Once, the Cingulii had numerous branches across the Republic, and were respected and held in high regard by the people and the Senate of Rome alike. But one by one, your line died out and your name fell into disrepute, becoming associated with flesh merchants and slavers. A member of your family has not held the Consulate, or even sat in the Senate, for well over a century. Your father, through his actions, has started well on the path to restoring the long-lost honor of your name, but with him dead, the legacy of your family rests upon your shoulders.
    [x] Speech: From a young age, you have had a gift for oratory, for choosing the right words for the right moment. You have nurtured this talent into the ability to hold a room full of men under your sway with nothing but your gift for speech. Oratory, perhaps above all other talents, is valued in the Senate, for it is the orator who is capable of winning the most selfish and fickle men in all of Rome to his side, of ending wars with a few choice sentences, of shaping the fate of Rome with impassioned speech and persuasive word.
    [X] Law: Roman law is a complicated, tangled morass of bylaws and codas, less a legal system and more an inscrutable maze, the byproduct of three hundred years of plodding bureaucracy. From a young age, you have studied and read the law, making yourself familiar with it's complicated intricacies and glaring loopholes, it's strengths and it's weaknesses. In the Senate, one who understands the byzantine codes of decorum and senatorial process can manipulate them to his cause, and in the streets of the city, one who can speak in favor of the people in the courts can easily win their hearts.
    [X] The Gift of Minerva: You are a man wise beyond your years, more intelligent and resourceful than most youths your age. Even in the height of danger, you are clear-sighted and quick-thinking, opening up more solutions to your problems than might be possible otherwise. Your plans and stratagems are well-thought out and do not often fail, and no man in Rome can best you in a match of wits. Such is the extent of your skill that at times it seems as if you are blessed by Minerva herself, the warlike goddess of knowledge. Where others rush headlong into danger, you have already seen it coming -- and worked out a plan to stop it
    [x] Plan Ube
    -[x] The Plebeian
    -[x] War
    -[x] The Arts
    -[x] The Gift of Minerva
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Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on Feb 3, 2018 at 12:11 PM, finished with 29 posts and 25 votes.
  • [X] Plan Far-Seeing Legate
    -[X] The Patrician
    -[x] War
    -[X] Speech
    -[x] The Gift of Minerva
    [X] Plan Tribonian Comes 600 Years Early
    [X] Plan Deal-maker
    -[X] The Patrician
    -[X] Law
    -[X] Trade
    -[X] The Gift of Mercury
    [X] Plan Virtus
    -[X] The Patrician
    -[x] War
    -[X] Speech
    -[X] The Gift of Mars
    [X] Plan Cursus Honorum
    - [X] The New Man
    - [X] War
    - [X] Law
    - [X] The Gift of Minerva
    [X] The PatricianYou are a patrican, the true nobility of Rome, the upper class of the Republic. Yours is an ancient family, hailing back to the very founding of Rome itself. Once, the Cingulii had numerous branches across the Republic, and were respected and held in high regard by the people and the Senate of Rome alike. But one by one, your line died out and your name fell into disrepute, becoming associated with flesh merchants and slavers. A member of your family has not held the Consulate, or even sat in the Senate, for well over a century. Your father, through his actions, has started well on the path to restoring the long-lost honor of your name, but with him dead, the legacy of your family rests upon your shoulders.
    [x] Speech: From a young age, you have had a gift for oratory, for choosing the right words for the right moment. You have nurtured this talent into the ability to hold a room full of men under your sway with nothing but your gift for speech. Oratory, perhaps above all other talents, is valued in the Senate, for it is the orator who is capable of winning the most selfish and fickle men in all of Rome to his side, of ending wars with a few choice sentences, of shaping the fate of Rome with impassioned speech and persuasive word.
    [X] Law: Roman law is a complicated, tangled morass of bylaws and codas, less a legal system and more an inscrutable maze, the byproduct of three hundred years of plodding bureaucracy. From a young age, you have studied and read the law, making yourself familiar with it's complicated intricacies and glaring loopholes, it's strengths and it's weaknesses. In the Senate, one who understands the byzantine codes of decorum and senatorial process can manipulate them to his cause, and in the streets of the city, one who can speak in favor of the people in the courts can easily win their hearts.
    [X] The Gift of Minerva: You are a man wise beyond your years, more intelligent and resourceful than most youths your age. Even in the height of danger, you are clear-sighted and quick-thinking, opening up more solutions to your problems than might be possible otherwise. Your plans and stratagems are well-thought out and do not often fail, and no man in Rome can best you in a match of wits. Such is the extent of your skill that at times it seems as if you are blessed by Minerva herself, the warlike goddess of knowledge. Where others rush headlong into danger, you have already seen it coming -- and worked out a plan to stop it
    [X] Plan Rising Star
    -[X] The New Man
    -[X] Speech
    -[X] Trade
    -[X] The Gift of Fortuna
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Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on Feb 4, 2018 at 6:17 AM, finished with 49 posts and 37 votes.
  • [X] Plan Far-Seeing Legate
    -[X] The Patrician
    -[x] War
    -[X] Speech
    -[x] The Gift of Minerva
    [X] Plan Tribonian Comes 600 Years Early
    [X] Plan Deal-maker
    -[X] The Patrician
    -[X] Law
    -[X] Trade
    -[X] The Gift of Mercury
    [X] Plan Virtus
    -[X] The Patrician
    -[x] War
    -[X] Speech
    -[X] The Gift of Mars
    [X] Plan Rising Star
    -[X] The New Man
    -[X] Speech
    -[X] Trade
    -[X] The Gift of Fortuna
    [x] Speech: From a young age, you have had a gift for oratory, for choosing the right words for the right moment. You have nurtured this talent into the ability to hold a room full of men under your sway with nothing but your gift for speech. Oratory, perhaps above all other talents, is valued in the Senate, for it is the orator who is capable of winning the most selfish and fickle men in all of Rome to his side, of ending wars with a few choice sentences, of shaping the fate of Rome with impassioned speech and persuasive word.
    [X] Plan Cursus Honorum
    - [X] The New Man
    - [X] War
    - [X] Law
    - [X] The Gift of Minerva
    [X]Plan Caesar
    [X] Plan Mars Exulte
    -[X] The New Man
    -[x] War
    -[X] Speech
    -[X] The Gift of Mars
    [X] The PatricianYou are a patrican, the true nobility of Rome, the upper class of the Republic. Yours is an ancient family, hailing back to the very founding of Rome itself. Once, the Cingulii had numerous branches across the Republic, and were respected and held in high regard by the people and the Senate of Rome alike. But one by one, your line died out and your name fell into disrepute, becoming associated with flesh merchants and slavers. A member of your family has not held the Consulate, or even sat in the Senate, for well over a century. Your father, through his actions, has started well on the path to restoring the long-lost honor of your name, but with him dead, the legacy of your family rests upon your shoulders.
    [X] Law: Roman law is a complicated, tangled morass of bylaws and codas, less a legal system and more an inscrutable maze, the byproduct of three hundred years of plodding bureaucracy. From a young age, you have studied and read the law, making yourself familiar with it's complicated intricacies and glaring loopholes, it's strengths and it's weaknesses. In the Senate, one who understands the byzantine codes of decorum and senatorial process can manipulate them to his cause, and in the streets of the city, one who can speak in favor of the people in the courts can easily win their hearts.
    [X] The Gift of Minerva: You are a man wise beyond your years, more intelligent and resourceful than most youths your age. Even in the height of danger, you are clear-sighted and quick-thinking, opening up more solutions to your problems than might be possible otherwise. Your plans and stratagems are well-thought out and do not often fail, and no man in Rome can best you in a match of wits. Such is the extent of your skill that at times it seems as if you are blessed by Minerva herself, the warlike goddess of knowledge. Where others rush headlong into danger, you have already seen it coming -- and worked out a plan to stop it
    [X] A Roman Hero / Better than Hercules
    -[X] The New Man Your father was the first of his name, gaining enough prestige and renown that his once plebian family has become part of the equitii, the aristocratic class of officers and cavalrymen. However, as no member of your family has ever sat in the Roman Senate, you are not considered nobilis, and as such, are looked down upon by both patricians and nobilis plebians. Yet Rome in her heart has always admired men of ambition and talent, and those who come from nothing noble and yet manage to gain the prestige of the Senate are thus known as novus homo, or 'new men', and their families automatically added to the ranks of the nobilis. Your path will be the hardest yet, but your rewards many -- for the new man, once he has risen, is held in higher esteem in Rome than the patrician and the plebian alike.
    [X] War: Almost from infancy, your father struggled to impart upon you all that he knew of the soldier's duty, of the sword held high, of the line that cannot break. He drove you like he drove the legionnares of his youth, molding you into a weapon of Rome. Physically, you are the equal of any man now serving in Rome's armies, and you have long studied the campaigns of the Republic's finest commanders and their foes, honing an understanding of strategy and tactics equal to the most promising cadet. Should you decide to take up arms in the name of Rome, you will have a most promising future under the sword.
    [X] The Gift of Bellona: In battle, you are untouchable. Your reflexes are like lightning and your limbs the thunder that follows after. Your muscles are like iron and your strength like something out of the very tales of Heracles. Those who have seen you rip through a battlefield say that it was like looking upon Bellona herself, the ancient goddess of war and destruction, come to earth in mortal flesh. While you draw breath with a blade in your hand, there is no man living that can face you alone.
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[X] Plan Rising Star
-[X] The New Man
-[X] Speech
-[X] Trade
-[X] The Gift of Fortuna
Going with the New Man, though a harder path in terms of allies, it is the path which leverages the three factors:
-Oratory. The gifted orator can move the mob, and thus the nation, provided he has the resources to back it up.

-Wealth. The power of trade is wealth, and while a power little favored by the old patrician lineages, you need either wealth or wealthy support to see your deeds to fruition

-Luck. The halls of power are well trodden by the cunning, the powerful and great generals alike. But these are paths that the Senators have a steel grasp upon, and rising through these means can be countered in known and predictable way. But the opportunist, the one with the charisma and wealth to turn a Maybe into a Success. The Empire teeters towards the edge, so we need someone who can dance the edge of a coin and sword with ease.
 
Right. 86BC, so Marius is dead/will be dead in at most a fortnight, Cinna is consul, and Sulla is marching east. He'll be back in ~three years, and we'll be facing into the infamous proscriptions (assuming things go as OTL). Sulla is also going to neuter the tribunate, which makes being a plebian less attractive. Our age means we don't have to compete with most of the real heavyweights in elections in suo anno (Caesar is two/three years our junior, Pompey and Cicero three years our senior, and Crassus, I think, is nine years beyond that. Lucullus is old enough to have been a tribune of the soldiers for Sulla when the latter first marched on Rome in 88BC).

As far as plans go, Speech and Law go hand in hand. A good prosecution, even if the defendant escapes through the copious use of bribes, can make a career, a good defence is a classic way of making connections and earning "gifts," and oration is a crucial part of the Roman legal system. War, too, is immensely important to almost any aspiring consul. Even leaving aside all the looming civil wars (and Spartacus!), there are opportunities for a Roman governor in Further Spain, Gaul, Dacia and in the east against Mithridates, Tigranes and the Parthians. There's the grand prize of annexing Egypt as well, but getting a command there is going to be bloody work. Finally, a word on fortune. The Romans believed that a man made his own luck but that some few were favoured by Fortuna in a way that went beyond that. It plays very well with the electorate. On balance, though, I think I prefer a broader skill base.

[X]Plan Caesar

[] The Patrician

[] Law
[] Speech

[] Gift of Mars

I'll also post this, just in case it interests people.

[] The Patrician

[] War
[] Speech

[] The Gift of Fortuna
 
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Well, the Ireland match is over, so I can devote a little more time to this.

-Given the time period, being of above average wealth is... not necessarily a great thing. Wealth from trade is even worse. Trade is not senatorial and, even though many of them partook anyway, it is a weakness for rivals to exploit. In the worse case scenario, we could lose senatorial status.

-Demagoguery is not a viable path to power in the Republic. (Populares courted the support of the middle class and the Equestrians, not the mob.) Everyone who tried it ended up dead or exiled. The Graachi, Saturninus, Sulpicius, Catalina, Clodius, Milo- all failures, and all but the last corpses. Even ignoring that, this is a particularly bad time to be a demagogue (assuming Sulla wins, which he should). The tribunate is the best magistracy for rabblerousing, and it is going to be turned into a powerless dead end.

-At seventeen, the first magistracy we can stand for is Tribune of the Soldiers at ~twenty. It is not technically required, but it is a good way to start our career. Assuming we win, of course. After that, we traditionally have to serve ten campaigns before standing for election as Quaestor. Ideally, we would then be specifically requested by a provincial governor to serve on his staff. After that, the next required office is Praetor at thirty-nine, but we should stand for election as Aedile and/or a priesthood in the interim and hopefully serve as someone's legate. Then out to our province as propraetor, before running for the ultimate prize of the Consulship at forty-two. (There's some evidence that Sulla legislated to allow Patricians to stand for curule office two years early, but that is up to Telamon, so I'll assume that does not apply). Then another term in the provinces as proconsul before possibly crowning our career by becoming Censor. (Or Consul for a second time. Or maybe even Dictator.)

-We need to decide, very early on, what our brand is. Optimate or Populare is only the start of it. Are we a paragon of the stern old Roman virtues such as Cato the Elder would approve of, or are we one of the new more cultured (read Hellenized) Romans? Do we court controversy and notoriety? Are we a dashing Roman Alexander like Pompey, or a creature of subtle menace and far-reaching influence like Crassus?

-This ties into the branding, but intellectualism needs to be tied to proper Roman steel, as it otherwise smacks of effeminacy to the Roman voters and that is electoral poison.

-I'm going to shill my plan here a little, but Speech, Law and Mars tie together very nicely. Poor public speaking and ignorance of Senate procedure hamstrung Pompey, for all his military brilliance. Poor generalship lead Crassus to Carrhae and ruin in spite of his wealth and influence. Cicero was undisputed master of the law courts, but the taunt of "coward" followed him his whole career, and left him less respected than his talents deserved. The ideal senator was at home in the Senate, in the law courts and on the battlefield.
 
[X] A Roman Hero / Better than Hercules
-[X] The New Man Your father was the first of his name, gaining enough prestige and renown that his once plebian family has become part of the equitii, the aristocratic class of officers and cavalrymen. However, as no member of your family has ever sat in the Roman Senate, you are not considered nobilis, and as such, are looked down upon by both patricians and nobilis plebians. Yet Rome in her heart has always admired men of ambition and talent, and those who come from nothing noble and yet manage to gain the prestige of the Senate are thus known as novus homo, or 'new men', and their families automatically added to the ranks of the nobilis. Your path will be the hardest yet, but your rewards many -- for the new man, once he has risen, is held in higher esteem in Rome than the patrician and the plebian alike.

[X] War: Almost from infancy, your father struggled to impart upon you all that he knew of the soldier's duty, of the sword held high, of the line that cannot break. He drove you like he drove the legionnares of his youth, molding you into a weapon of Rome. Physically, you are the equal of any man now serving in Rome's armies, and you have long studied the campaigns of the Republic's finest commanders and their foes, honing an understanding of strategy and tactics equal to the most promising cadet. Should you decide to take up arms in the name of Rome, you will have a most promising future under the sword.

[X] Speech: From a young age, you have had a gift for oratory, for choosing the right words for the right moment. You have nurtured this talent into the ability to hold a room full of men under your sway with nothing but your gift for speech. Oratory, perhaps above all other talents, is valued in the Senate, for it is the orator who is capable of winning the most selfish and fickle men in all of Rome to his side, of ending wars with a few choice sentences, of shaping the fate of Rome with impassioned speech and persuasive word.

[X] The Gift of Bellona: In battle, you are untouchable. Your reflexes are like lightning and your limbs the thunder that follows after. Your muscles are like iron and your strength like something out of the very tales of Heracles. Those who have seen you rip through a battlefield say that it was like looking upon Bellona herself, the ancient goddess of war and destruction, come to earth in mortal flesh. While you draw breath with a blade in your hand, there is no man living that can face you alone.

My plan is basically become an inhuman war machine with a silver tongue and tactical military intelligence the likes of a proper hero, with this we could say join arena fighting and make a name for ourselves to hopefully get someone to recruit us as a officer for our skills and jumpstart our military career.
 
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[X] Plan Mars Exulte
-[X] The New Man
-[X] War
-[X] Speech
-[X] The Gift of Mars
 
To try giving reason for my plan, I believe Minerva is the best Gift choice. It is widely applicable, both to war and intellectual situations. Speech is the best combo with it, because Wisdom's usefulness shine best when you can get people to listen to it. Talent at War make sure we are fit and able and ready to military campaign. That, and what's the point of playing a Roman if not for glorious legion.

Other gift choices ... Mars make us visioner or matters of war, but only war. Beauty, persuasion, that is useless without the ability to know the right choice to advocate to people. And comes with it potential drawback. Mercury & Fortuna, those two actually I can see useful, but I still prefer Minerva. Bellona is wonderful, if we want to be Achilles or Hercules that is. Nay, if we are warring we should be aiming for generalship, not being action hero.

Trade is not useful skill to be had, due to the fact that trading is looked down among the most powerful men of Rome. Maaaaybe for Plebelian or New Man, but not for a Patrician. Legal can be substituted with having good head on our shoulders (wisdom, that is Minerva). Or by having a friend/client/ally that can explain the laws to us :V Arts ... don't see much use possible use here.

As for Patrician/Plebian/New Man ... well, I have no argument here. I just prefer playing old blood on this occasion.
 
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I'm going to argue a little in favour of Law here, because I don't want it to be overlooked. War is massively important as a Roman politician, yes, but whatever about the Republic, we personally won't always be at war. There are a limited number of commands available, and we will not be able to monopolise them. So, given that a large part of our career will be peacetime, what do we do when we're not conquering the barbarians defending the Republic?

Practice law.

Seriously, it's hard to overstate the importance of the courts in the late Republic. It keeps you in the public eye, which is the single most important thing for any Roman on the cursus honorum. Acting for the defence is how you win friends, allies and clients. A good orator like Cicero or Hortensius can make a fortune in "gifts" from those he defends. (And that is perfectly senatorial, unlike trade.) Perhaps more importantly, prosecuting is how you destroy rivals and send them into exile. The mere threat of facing prosecution was enough to force Caesar across the Rubicon.

Further to that, in the normal course of things, we won't be allowed to speak in the Senate until we're elected Praetor... unless we successfully prosecute a man of praetorian rank (or win a Civic Crown).

So yeah, please consider Law guys? It matters.
 
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DocMatoi said:
[X] Plan Tribonian Comes 600 Years Early

[X] The PatricianYou are a patrican, the true nobility of Rome, the upper class of the Republic. Yours is an ancient family, hailing back to the very founding of Rome itself. Once, the Cingulii had numerous branches across the Republic, and were respected and held in high regard by the people and the Senate of Rome alike. But one by one, your line died out and your name fell into disrepute, becoming associated with flesh merchants and slavers. A member of your family has not held the Consulate, or even sat in the Senate, for well over a century. Your father, through his actions, has started well on the path to restoring the long-lost honor of your name, but with him dead, the legacy of your family rests upon your shoulders.

[x] Speech: From a young age, you have had a gift for oratory, for choosing the right words for the right moment. You have nurtured this talent into the ability to hold a room full of men under your sway with nothing but your gift for speech. Oratory, perhaps above all other talents, is valued in the Senate, for it is the orator who is capable of winning the most selfish and fickle men in all of Rome to his side, of ending wars with a few choice sentences, of shaping the fate of Rome with impassioned speech and persuasive word.
[X] Law: Roman law is a complicated, tangled morass of bylaws and codas, less a legal system and more an inscrutable maze, the byproduct of three hundred years of plodding bureaucracy. From a young age, you have studied and read the law, making yourself familiar with it's complicated intricacies and glaring loopholes, it's strengths and it's weaknesses. In the Senate, one who understands the byzantine codes of decorum and senatorial process can manipulate them to his cause, and in the streets of the city, one who can speak in favor of the people in the courts can easily win their hearts.
[X] The Gift of Minerva: You are a man wise beyond your years, more intelligent and resourceful than most youths your age. Even in the height of danger, you are clear-sighted and quick-thinking, opening up more solutions to your problems than might be possible otherwise. Your plans and stratagems are well-thought out and do not often fail, and no man in Rome can best you in a match of wits. Such is the extent of your skill that at times it seems as if you are blessed by Minerva herself, the warlike goddess of knowledge. Where others rush headlong into danger, you have already seen it coming -- and worked out a plan to stop it

Earn the love of the people by giving them understandable justice in the courts
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[X] Plan Tribonian Comes 600 Years Early

We are in Caesar's peer group, going straight War is not going to work. Tear out the rot and install new pillars instead.

I'd kinda prefer Fortuna or Mercury. Fortuna, to steal her away from Caesar's bed, or Mercury to build stronger allies.
 
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I should really strangle you, telamon, for making so many good quests just to abandon them. Bonaparte quest, for instance.

At least I'll probably learn a thing or two about Rome.
 
Wootius said:
[X] Plan Tribonian Comes 600 Years Early

We are in Caesar's peer group, going straight War is not going to work. Tear out the rot and install new pillars instead.

I'd kinda prefer Fortuna or Mercury. Fortuna, to steal her away from Caesar's bed, or Mercury to build stronger allies.
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So to avoid competing with Caesar in his wheelhouse, you want to compete with Cicero in his? :p

I actually quite like Plan Tribonian, that just struck me as a little amusing. In any case, Caesar isn't unbeatable- his career is full of spectacular against the odds victories because he had the awful habit of putting himself in positions where he needed to win spectacular, against the odds victories. Besides, I'm pretty sure that the Gift of Mars means we would have at least the potential to appear on the list of Roman military greats.


Addendum:

You know, it just occurred to me that, if Telamon doesn't implement Sulla's dispensation for patricians, we'll be competing with Metellus Celer for every office. That'll be interesting. The Metelli were a generally formidable bunch.
 
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Okay, I'll give my argument for Plan Cursus Honorum.

We should get Minerva, because we need to be able to think quickly, both on the battlefield and outside of it.

Thus, we should be talented in War, because of course. But also Law, because if there's anything Romans know outside of war and adopting the technologies of barbarians, it's Law.

Finally, I personally like the idea of playing as one of the New Men.
 
[X] Plan Tribonian Comes 600 Years Early

Although I am strongly allured to the demagoguery traits, they are both unpopular and probably conducive to a short and bloody game. You win this time, common-sense!

Picking Tribonian simply because I like law and speech alongside the Minerva gift.
 
I'm just going to lay out my problems with the two leading plans. Please note that I don't think either of them is a bad plan by any means. I just think that they have flaws.

Legate:

- One quibble here, but it's a fairly big one for me. No Law, and I don't think Minerva compensates. Wisdom =! Knowledge, and having to have legislation and Senate procedure explained to him was a big part of why Pompey's pre-Triumvirate Senate career fell flat. (And Pompey had vastly more money and prestige than we are likely to have.) Finally, Speech needs a platform to be fully as useful as it can be, and Law is the most readily available to us.

Tribonian:

- Turns us into the sort of stereotypical intellectual the Romans weren't overly fond of. That's not insurmountable, as Cicero's career proves, but Cicero was never Princeps Senatus. Also, lacking skill in war denies us the best opportunities to build up wealth and prestige. (Law is good for building up contacts and clients and certainly helps financially, but pretty much the only way we are going to be able to play in the same fiscal league as Pompey is war.)


Anyway, onto to slightly happier topics. I've been thinking about the timeline of our career, and there are a few interesting possibilities.

- I think that times line up for us to possibly serve as Lucullus' Quaestor when he goes east, if we build up the requisite reputation and relationships. I think we should aim for it, as it could help keep us away from Spartacus and the Spanish quagmire, neither of which is something we want anything to do with. If we manage it, though, we should aim to get out after the fall of Tigranocerta. Things go downhill for Lucullus after that.

- Assuming things go smoothly, we'll be either Praetor or Consul-elect at the time of the OTL Cataline conspiracy, either of which presents good opportunities.

- As far as provinces go, both Spains, both Gauls, Illyria and Macedonia are all good. Sicily and Africa limit opportunities and will have been mostly picked clean.

- There is a chance we could be co-opted into the college of pontifices in 73BC... at the expense of Caesar. Again, we would have to be very lucky and very good, but it's a nice stretch goal.
 
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