- Location
- Kiel; Germany
Nope, you have 3 full Legions. Ovida's Legion has called in reenforcment over the winter.
The Beginning of the End - A West Roman Empire Quest
- Thread starter Jax
- Start date
- Alt. History Historic
-
- Tags
- historical rome
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Wow, that's quite the show of force. 3 full legions marching into barbarian lands? Here's hoping it's not our own Teutoburg!
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
Sending in so many troops to one location is quite stupid. They are unnecessary, risk us overstretching our logistics marching into their controlled territory, and could leave us empty-handed should something important in another area pop up. This isn't a 4X game, where you can freely send your entire military to finish one task and expect no consequences from potential enemies along your other borders. We need to keep an open Legion, and furthermore we really shouldn't be recruiting more Legions than our economy can handle. The inflation of soldier pay is actually one, among many, reasons for the West's initial troubles in the first place.
- Location
- nz
[X] Plan Ostrogoth Containment
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Logistics won't be a problem with our decent military skill and us building roads in Dalmatia. With three full legions, either the Ostrogoths will capitulate, or we can smash them quickly even without sieging their cities. All our 3 legions will need to do is raid and burn as they please, and if the Ostrogoth king refuses to help his subjects, then that puts his leadership into question and destabilizes his rule, but if he does face us in battle, I'm plenty sure 3 full legions will be too much for them to face.
Currently, we have 5 Legions under our employ, but we are expanding our trade network to allow for increased revenue, and us looting a enemy kingdom will go a long way towards ensuring that our soldiers have pay, and the glory and revenge they so crave. A successful expidition is the most convincing signal of the WRE's resurgent might, and should give the rest of the nearby kingdoms second thoughts if they wish to tackle us head-on. The empire has always been proactive rather than reactive.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
They can very easily retreat further into Dacia or Pannonia (where they came from) as I already mentioned. They've already retreated further north, and a continued campaign against an opponent lighter on its feet and able to move about in these territories is dangerous. Furthermore, the Ostrogoths are a mobile people. There is no "siege" to do because they are nomadic* at this point. The historical Ostrogoths didn't settle until they conquered Italy.
We already sent such a signal with our force against Alans, to which they capitulated and are going along with Roman law to address their issues with the Britons. The major problem here is that you consistently keep having this blank spot between the peak of the Roman Empire and Charlemagne, which has you treating the WRE of the 5th century as a similar entity as the RE of the 1st and 2nd Centuries. It's not, and we have no need for risky adventurism like that. If anything, constant adventurism was one of the flaws of the empire's continued expansion that brought about its overextension on multiple levels.
That's why my plan calls for both an ambassador with the Ostrogoths, along with shoring up defenses. You can't beat a nomadic people into submission without a miracle of managing to completely outflank and capture them. It's better to have used our previous show of force to negotiate an end to their invasion than risk getting outflanked.
We also, contrary to your point in your first post, don't have a choice about letting them reinforce and lick their wounds. We have to wait through the winter before being able to attack, at which point they would have already had the time to reinforce and reorganize.
*not "steppe" nomadic levels, but still not a "live congretated in organized spaces" level either
Last edited:
- Location
- california
Ayyyy another Roman Empire quest. Definitely watching this one
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Fair point! Considering this, I'm more inclined to defense now. However, I would still like to keep 3 Legions in Dalmatia since if the Ostrogoths do attack, they'll come in more force than their last attempt, and 2 Legions weren't quite enough to completely beat him the first time so best to prepare.
[X] Plan Ostrogoth Containment
-[X] Military:
--[X] War against Nepos
---[X] Wait for the Ostrogoths attack in spring (+1 Skill progress)
---[X] Send Additional troops to Dalmatia (1 Legion)
-[X] Civilian:
--[X] Order public works on …
---[X] Roads in Dalmatia (+1 Skill Progress)
--[X] Reorganize the Civil Administration ...
---[X] of Amorica (+1 Skill Progress)
-[X] Diplomacy:
--[X] Sent an envoy to … (+1 Skill Progress)
---[X] Constantinople
----[X] Open communications about hosting an ecumenical council between the East and West before this schism business gets too serious and long-lasting
--[X] Establish a ambassador at … (+1 Skill progress for each)
---[X] The Visigoths
Last edited:
[X] Plan: A Steady Stately Ship
- Location
- Kiel; Germany
Why, thanks! I hope you enjoy it.
478 A.D. New Fronts
- Location
- Kiel; Germany
Progress Counter
This shows you what might happen in a number of turns. Note, this shows only the dangers your character is aware of.
Vandals declare war 3 / 10
Syagrius investigates the Britons of Amorica 2 / 3
Burgundian Civil War 6 / 10
# + # + # +
When the next spring came and the next campaigns could start, the Ostrogoths attacked again. Their heavy units were reinforced with newly formed light units that acted as a screen – replacing the losses from the previous year. They were facing the well-fortified camp set up by the Roman army under Paulus and Ovida. This shouldn't be thought of as a simple camp that was secured with a barricade or palisade. This was more akin to modern field fortifications. The first defense was an earth wall with a high slope towards the enemy, and on top of it was a small wall from where the Romans could fight the Ostrogoths. The field before this wall was littered with traps that could easily break a man's leg when he stepped on it or otherwise injure him. Behind the wall, a deep trench lay that had only a few points where it could be crossed, funneling any attacker into narrow corridors or they would need first to go down a trench and then up again. Behind this lay the main Roman camp with its massive fortifications of a high earth wall, with a palisade on top.
The Roman position was not a defensive construct but a weapon, waiting for an army to attack it. It is one of the best examples of defensive warfare we know of today and is still taught at famous military schools like West Point or Schola Imperalii Romanii.
Theoderic Strapo, on the other hand, didn't come unprepared or charged into the prepared Roman position like a bull. His approach was much more coordinated and careful than one would expect. His initial attacks raged for four days as he probed the first line of defense. The Ostrogoths began to clear the traps and harass the Romans with spears and arrows to hold them occupied. All the while, more massive weapons were constructed by, what many suspect, were East Roman engineers. Theoderic Strapo was a prominent figure in the eastern courts, even if it is often overlooked had he many supporters among the nobility and the military.
He used this support to ease the siege of the Roman position. In the first week, this was a simple back and forth from both sides. The Ostrogoths would begin to harass the Romans, who would send out skirmishers of their own to force the barbarians back – who did the same thing with their warriors. After the first week, Theoderic Strapo's engineers finally finished their work on the siege engines and began to bombard the first Roman line of defense. It took them two weeks to create several breaches that the Romans couldn't repair in time and started storming the first line.
Again, the Dalmatians stood fast in the first line. Ovida's legion had been reinforced by recruits from all over the province who had gladly joined when they realized that one of the invading forces were barbarians and not Romans. They fought for their home, and it showed as they repulsed three attacks, the last one lead by Theoderic Strapo and his bodyguard. After the king of the Ostrogoths had been forced back, he spoke his famous line: "There stands Dalmatia and only God can move it!"
And his words were proven right as the Ostrogoths couldn't take the first line from Ovida's troops. The night before the Ostrogoths took the first line, they retreated on orders of Paulus to the second line where the primary battle was planned to happen. From the start, the Romans had planned to make the Ostrogoths attack the first line as long as possible so they would grow restless – betting on the fact that Theoderic Strapo's men lacked the same discipline the Romans had with their troops. The plan was that the barbarians would break on the second wall like a wave when they attacked. This was an obvious tactic, but the terrain and Rome's positioning forced the Ostrogoths to face them there.
Normally, Theoderic Strapo would never have let himself fall for this, but other factors forced his hands. Always deeply involved in the politics of the Eastern Empire, he had a personal enemy in Zeno. Both of them had clashed fiercely in the past. And Zeno was using Theoderic's distraction to the fullest. He made some significant moves against the Ostrogoth king and forced him to end his campaign in Dalmatia quickly. This explains why Theoderic Strapo did as the Romans hope, he wasn't incompetent, but he needed to finish fighting quickly to get his rival in check again. Already the campaign had cost him much with his defeat in the year before. Coupled with the pressure from Zeno and the fast emptying money reserves of Julius Nepos, Dalmatia had become a failure to him. Only a quick victory with much looting of the rich province could give him some power back and help him finance his plans for the future.
Why point all of this out? Simply because the Battle for the Second Line became the decisive fight for the War in Dalmatia. In this battle, Theoderic Strapo tried to force the end of the war when storming the second line. Abandoning his careful behavior from before, he simply ordered the storming of the second line. What followed has been described by survivors as the bloodiest battle that happened during Orestes' Renaissance of the Western Roman Empire.
For hours, heavy fighting took place; the defensive wall changed hands three times until the Ostrogoths fell back. Retreating exhausted like their enemies, they bitterly needed a rest, but they couldn't get any. Zeno had sent his army, mostly made up of cavalry, that reached the battlefield just when the sun began to set. They had arrived the day before but by some luck hadn't been noticed by either side. Since then, the East Roman commander had waited for the right moment to attack. He saw his moment when the Ostrogoths returned to their camp. When they finally did, the East Romans came over them, and a one-sided slaughter took place that destroyed much of the Ostrogoths.
Some managed to flee, but they were only a few. Theoderic Strabo was cornered by the East Romans and killed. Some legends say he was fighting six men at once to buy some time for some of his men when he was finally overcome. Whether this is true, no one knows. What is known is that the Ostrogoths never recovered from the battle of Dalmatia. Some were absorbed by other germanic tribes, but most of the survivors were taken in – surprisingly – by Zeno who settled them in Palestina. There they would grow into actual Roman citizens and gain renown in their defense against the Sassanids.
For West Rome, this battle was the final turning point where it became clear to other nations that the Roman Empire in the West was done with dying. In its typical fashion, the Empire had brutally clawed its way out of the near-death state it had been in only a few years ago. Orestes had done what many didn't think would be possible when he took control over the Empire. Now the question remained: would it last?
To ensure this, he had his son order the reorganization of the civil administration in the two returned parts of the Empire. The first province to receive this blessing of Roman Bureaucracy was Gaul. Many in the population greeted this return with relief and even celebration. The administration under Syagrius had suffered much from the dire years when barbarians had pressed against Gaul's borders. In these times, it had been more essential to have armies in the field than have an orderly administration. But times had changed, and there was no better indicator for this than the civil administration.
Following the example that had been set in Italy, Syagrius ordered a census to be done. This census showed that much of the old taxes had been too high or could be done more fairly – something that was swiftly implemented. This also led to more significant revenue in taxes for the Empire overall. Additionally, the return of the civil administration also led to a return of justice as law and order were again easier to access for many. This helped Syagrius to control his province more than before and allowed him to reduce the number of garrisons within Gaul and relocate them to the border regions. It was leading to a much stronger force that stood ready to repel any attack against Gaul.
The Britons who had settled in Armorica were still organizing their civilization there. While still wary of any interference from outside and still distrusting towards Rome, they couldn't withstand the alluring sound of bureaucracy – knowing that it was a sign of a more orderly way of living. Complaining and grumbling the whole time, they still accepted the new administration and grudgingly even helped them to be established. It was after some time that the new city officials learned from the Britons about what had happened on the island they originated from and was still happening. The foederati that had been hired to protect against the attack from the Picts had begun to take over the land. The situation wasn't clear as some had decided to resist while others had fled to the mainland. But one thing was clear; much of the island was still under the control of the Britons.
In response to the unexpected help that East Rome had sent to Dalmatia, an envoy was sent to Zeno to thank him. Besides the usual presents that were exchanged at such an event, the envoy also had a second mission. The Magister militum wished to host a council between the two Emperors to see the East and West cooperate more in the future and to find an understanding in matters of religion. Zeno agreed, seeing the potential such a council had. A meeting place was needed and found.
It was agreed that the council would happen…
[ ] at Constantiople
[ ] at Narona
[ ] at Ravenna
But Zeno also had a price he asked for his openness to such talks. This price was Romulus Augustus' hand in marriage to the daughter of one of the powerful senatorial houses of the East. Additionally, West Rome would have to accept the superiority of East Rome for all time and, never question it. If these two points were approved, Zeno would meet with Romulus Augustus.
[ ] Accept.
[ ] Refuse.
With the Ostrogoths devastated and broken, only the Visigoths remained of the once mighty Goth tribe. They had settled in Hispania with the blessing of Rome and had long ruled there as legates. This had changed after Euric became king, when he rebelled against Rome and conquered most of Hispania and vast lands in southern Gaul. This had forced Julius Nepos to officially recognize the Visigoth Kingdom as a state and the lands conquered by them as theirs and not belonging to Rome. The people in those lands swore loyalty to their new king after this, and he has, like his predecessors, spent much time on integrating local nobles and former Roman officers into his ranks. This allowed the Visigoths to forge a realm that even to the Roman eye looked like civilization.
Euric himself, once an enemy of Rome, greeted the ambassador with kindness and took him in among the rest of his court. He praised the recent victories of Rome and welcomed the unification West Rome had finished with Dalmatia and the parts of northern Gaul – but he also made it clear that any attempts against his realm would be answered. For now, he is happy if the peace that existed between Rome and the Visigoths would continue as he has no interest in Italy for now.
Alemanni attack Gaul 5 / 5
Using the distraction of Syriagus with the Alans, the Alemanni decided to strike. Since their last attempt at expansion had been pushed back, they had licked their wounds, and they were now ready to strike. With several quick attacks, they overwhelmed the garrisons at the nearest settlements and pushed deep into Roman-held Gaul. The attack was so sudden and done with such fury that many Romans began to flee deeper into the province, quickly followed by the garrisons as they realized that they couldn't hold stand.
Syriagus rushed to the scene as fast as he could with all the troops he could muster and clashed with the Alemanni two times, forcing them to slow down in their advance but not wholly ending their march into the north of Gaul. Syriagus sent a quick call to his Frankish allies for help. They quickly answered, and their king personally led the host that came to Gaul's help. With their support, Syriagus managed to put a stop to the attacks finally. This small but hard-fought new war exhausted the Roman troops as well as the Franks, who had rushed to the battlefields. As summer was approaching, it looked like the sudden war in northern Gaul came to a stalemate.
# + # + # +
Choose 6 actions!
Military - 3 (11/15 next Skill point)
-Trait: Ravenna - Strong defence +2d6 Military
-Trait: Rome - Strong defence +2d6 Military
-Trait: Legion, +1d6 for each Legion sent on a Campaign (Current Number of Legions: 4)
-Trait: Citizen Legion, +2d6 when Fighting on Roman territory, outside like a Legion
-Trait: Navy Squadron +1d6 for each Squadron send on a Campaign on the sea (Current Number of Squadrons: 1)
[ ] War against the Alemanni
-[ ] send legions to Gaul (X Legions are sent to North Gaul, +2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] send money to Syriagus (-2 Skill Progress)
[ ] Recruit more troops (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Form a Legion (Gain X Legion, each Legion counts as an action)
-[ ] Form a Citizen Legion (Gain x Legion for the same amount of Stability)
-[ ] Form a Navy Squadron (Gain X Squadron, each Squadron counts as an action)
[ ] Build additional Naval Yards(+1 Skill progress)
[ ] Hire foederati from Barbarian Lands (Gain Trait: Foederati Troops +?d6)
-[ ] Write-in who
[ ] Plan a military expedition (+3 Skill progress, War!)
-[ ] Against the Vandals
-[ ] Against the Burgundians
-[ ] Against the Visigoths
-[ ] Against the Alans
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Fortify Dalmatia
-[ ] Against threats from the North (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Against the Eastern Empire (+2 Skill Progress, ???)
[ ] Reconquer Pannonia (+5 Skill Progress, ???)
Civilian - 4 (17 / 20 next Skill point)
-Trait: Support of the Common Men +1d6 against Senators
[ ] Strengthen the image of your son in the public's eye (+1 Skill progress, +1 Stability)
[ ] Order public works on …
-[ ] Roads in Dalmatia (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Monument to honor …
--[ ] Your son (+1 Stability, ???)
--[ ] Yourself (+1 Stability, ???)
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Rule over Dalmatia
-[ ] Ovida shall rule as governor (+2 Skill Progress, ???)
-[ ] Paulus shall rule as governor (+2 Skill Progress, ???)
-[ ] Incorporate it into Italy (+4 Skill Progress, ???)
[ ] Return Armorica to Gaul (+5 Skill Progress, ???)
[ ] Write-in
Diplomacy - 2 (4/10 next Skill point)
[ ] Intervene in Syagrius' investigation in favor of …
-[ ] the Alans (+2 Skill Progress, ???)
-[ ] the Britons (+2 Skill Progress, ???)
[ ] Ask East Rome for … (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Troops
-[ ] Money
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Ask the Burgundians for … (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Troops
-[ ] Money
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Try to force a Civil War in the Burgundian Realm (+2 Skill Progress, +1 Burgundian Civil war)
[ ] Ask the Vandals for … (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Naval Protection for trading vessels (???)
-[ ] Ask for the price of Sicily (???)
[ ] Ask the Visigoths to …(+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Help in the War against the Alemanni (Joins War, ???)
-[ ] Return southern Gaul to Roman rule for a price
[ ] Send an envoy to … (+1 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Germanic Kingdoms
--[ ] Write-in to who
---[ ] Recognize their realm
---[ ] Demand tribute in troops or money
[ ] Write-in
This shows you what might happen in a number of turns. Note, this shows only the dangers your character is aware of.
Vandals declare war 3 / 10
Syagrius investigates the Britons of Amorica 2 / 3
Burgundian Civil War 6 / 10
# + # + # +
When the next spring came and the next campaigns could start, the Ostrogoths attacked again. Their heavy units were reinforced with newly formed light units that acted as a screen – replacing the losses from the previous year. They were facing the well-fortified camp set up by the Roman army under Paulus and Ovida. This shouldn't be thought of as a simple camp that was secured with a barricade or palisade. This was more akin to modern field fortifications. The first defense was an earth wall with a high slope towards the enemy, and on top of it was a small wall from where the Romans could fight the Ostrogoths. The field before this wall was littered with traps that could easily break a man's leg when he stepped on it or otherwise injure him. Behind the wall, a deep trench lay that had only a few points where it could be crossed, funneling any attacker into narrow corridors or they would need first to go down a trench and then up again. Behind this lay the main Roman camp with its massive fortifications of a high earth wall, with a palisade on top.
The Roman position was not a defensive construct but a weapon, waiting for an army to attack it. It is one of the best examples of defensive warfare we know of today and is still taught at famous military schools like West Point or Schola Imperalii Romanii.
Theoderic Strapo, on the other hand, didn't come unprepared or charged into the prepared Roman position like a bull. His approach was much more coordinated and careful than one would expect. His initial attacks raged for four days as he probed the first line of defense. The Ostrogoths began to clear the traps and harass the Romans with spears and arrows to hold them occupied. All the while, more massive weapons were constructed by, what many suspect, were East Roman engineers. Theoderic Strapo was a prominent figure in the eastern courts, even if it is often overlooked had he many supporters among the nobility and the military.
He used this support to ease the siege of the Roman position. In the first week, this was a simple back and forth from both sides. The Ostrogoths would begin to harass the Romans, who would send out skirmishers of their own to force the barbarians back – who did the same thing with their warriors. After the first week, Theoderic Strapo's engineers finally finished their work on the siege engines and began to bombard the first Roman line of defense. It took them two weeks to create several breaches that the Romans couldn't repair in time and started storming the first line.
Again, the Dalmatians stood fast in the first line. Ovida's legion had been reinforced by recruits from all over the province who had gladly joined when they realized that one of the invading forces were barbarians and not Romans. They fought for their home, and it showed as they repulsed three attacks, the last one lead by Theoderic Strapo and his bodyguard. After the king of the Ostrogoths had been forced back, he spoke his famous line: "There stands Dalmatia and only God can move it!"
And his words were proven right as the Ostrogoths couldn't take the first line from Ovida's troops. The night before the Ostrogoths took the first line, they retreated on orders of Paulus to the second line where the primary battle was planned to happen. From the start, the Romans had planned to make the Ostrogoths attack the first line as long as possible so they would grow restless – betting on the fact that Theoderic Strapo's men lacked the same discipline the Romans had with their troops. The plan was that the barbarians would break on the second wall like a wave when they attacked. This was an obvious tactic, but the terrain and Rome's positioning forced the Ostrogoths to face them there.
Normally, Theoderic Strapo would never have let himself fall for this, but other factors forced his hands. Always deeply involved in the politics of the Eastern Empire, he had a personal enemy in Zeno. Both of them had clashed fiercely in the past. And Zeno was using Theoderic's distraction to the fullest. He made some significant moves against the Ostrogoth king and forced him to end his campaign in Dalmatia quickly. This explains why Theoderic Strapo did as the Romans hope, he wasn't incompetent, but he needed to finish fighting quickly to get his rival in check again. Already the campaign had cost him much with his defeat in the year before. Coupled with the pressure from Zeno and the fast emptying money reserves of Julius Nepos, Dalmatia had become a failure to him. Only a quick victory with much looting of the rich province could give him some power back and help him finance his plans for the future.
Why point all of this out? Simply because the Battle for the Second Line became the decisive fight for the War in Dalmatia. In this battle, Theoderic Strapo tried to force the end of the war when storming the second line. Abandoning his careful behavior from before, he simply ordered the storming of the second line. What followed has been described by survivors as the bloodiest battle that happened during Orestes' Renaissance of the Western Roman Empire.
For hours, heavy fighting took place; the defensive wall changed hands three times until the Ostrogoths fell back. Retreating exhausted like their enemies, they bitterly needed a rest, but they couldn't get any. Zeno had sent his army, mostly made up of cavalry, that reached the battlefield just when the sun began to set. They had arrived the day before but by some luck hadn't been noticed by either side. Since then, the East Roman commander had waited for the right moment to attack. He saw his moment when the Ostrogoths returned to their camp. When they finally did, the East Romans came over them, and a one-sided slaughter took place that destroyed much of the Ostrogoths.
Some managed to flee, but they were only a few. Theoderic Strabo was cornered by the East Romans and killed. Some legends say he was fighting six men at once to buy some time for some of his men when he was finally overcome. Whether this is true, no one knows. What is known is that the Ostrogoths never recovered from the battle of Dalmatia. Some were absorbed by other germanic tribes, but most of the survivors were taken in – surprisingly – by Zeno who settled them in Palestina. There they would grow into actual Roman citizens and gain renown in their defense against the Sassanids.
For West Rome, this battle was the final turning point where it became clear to other nations that the Roman Empire in the West was done with dying. In its typical fashion, the Empire had brutally clawed its way out of the near-death state it had been in only a few years ago. Orestes had done what many didn't think would be possible when he took control over the Empire. Now the question remained: would it last?
To ensure this, he had his son order the reorganization of the civil administration in the two returned parts of the Empire. The first province to receive this blessing of Roman Bureaucracy was Gaul. Many in the population greeted this return with relief and even celebration. The administration under Syagrius had suffered much from the dire years when barbarians had pressed against Gaul's borders. In these times, it had been more essential to have armies in the field than have an orderly administration. But times had changed, and there was no better indicator for this than the civil administration.
Following the example that had been set in Italy, Syagrius ordered a census to be done. This census showed that much of the old taxes had been too high or could be done more fairly – something that was swiftly implemented. This also led to more significant revenue in taxes for the Empire overall. Additionally, the return of the civil administration also led to a return of justice as law and order were again easier to access for many. This helped Syagrius to control his province more than before and allowed him to reduce the number of garrisons within Gaul and relocate them to the border regions. It was leading to a much stronger force that stood ready to repel any attack against Gaul.
The Britons who had settled in Armorica were still organizing their civilization there. While still wary of any interference from outside and still distrusting towards Rome, they couldn't withstand the alluring sound of bureaucracy – knowing that it was a sign of a more orderly way of living. Complaining and grumbling the whole time, they still accepted the new administration and grudgingly even helped them to be established. It was after some time that the new city officials learned from the Britons about what had happened on the island they originated from and was still happening. The foederati that had been hired to protect against the attack from the Picts had begun to take over the land. The situation wasn't clear as some had decided to resist while others had fled to the mainland. But one thing was clear; much of the island was still under the control of the Britons.
In response to the unexpected help that East Rome had sent to Dalmatia, an envoy was sent to Zeno to thank him. Besides the usual presents that were exchanged at such an event, the envoy also had a second mission. The Magister militum wished to host a council between the two Emperors to see the East and West cooperate more in the future and to find an understanding in matters of religion. Zeno agreed, seeing the potential such a council had. A meeting place was needed and found.
It was agreed that the council would happen…
[ ] at Constantiople
[ ] at Narona
[ ] at Ravenna
But Zeno also had a price he asked for his openness to such talks. This price was Romulus Augustus' hand in marriage to the daughter of one of the powerful senatorial houses of the East. Additionally, West Rome would have to accept the superiority of East Rome for all time and, never question it. If these two points were approved, Zeno would meet with Romulus Augustus.
[ ] Accept.
[ ] Refuse.
With the Ostrogoths devastated and broken, only the Visigoths remained of the once mighty Goth tribe. They had settled in Hispania with the blessing of Rome and had long ruled there as legates. This had changed after Euric became king, when he rebelled against Rome and conquered most of Hispania and vast lands in southern Gaul. This had forced Julius Nepos to officially recognize the Visigoth Kingdom as a state and the lands conquered by them as theirs and not belonging to Rome. The people in those lands swore loyalty to their new king after this, and he has, like his predecessors, spent much time on integrating local nobles and former Roman officers into his ranks. This allowed the Visigoths to forge a realm that even to the Roman eye looked like civilization.
Euric himself, once an enemy of Rome, greeted the ambassador with kindness and took him in among the rest of his court. He praised the recent victories of Rome and welcomed the unification West Rome had finished with Dalmatia and the parts of northern Gaul – but he also made it clear that any attempts against his realm would be answered. For now, he is happy if the peace that existed between Rome and the Visigoths would continue as he has no interest in Italy for now.
Alemanni attack Gaul 5 / 5
Using the distraction of Syriagus with the Alans, the Alemanni decided to strike. Since their last attempt at expansion had been pushed back, they had licked their wounds, and they were now ready to strike. With several quick attacks, they overwhelmed the garrisons at the nearest settlements and pushed deep into Roman-held Gaul. The attack was so sudden and done with such fury that many Romans began to flee deeper into the province, quickly followed by the garrisons as they realized that they couldn't hold stand.
Syriagus rushed to the scene as fast as he could with all the troops he could muster and clashed with the Alemanni two times, forcing them to slow down in their advance but not wholly ending their march into the north of Gaul. Syriagus sent a quick call to his Frankish allies for help. They quickly answered, and their king personally led the host that came to Gaul's help. With their support, Syriagus managed to put a stop to the attacks finally. This small but hard-fought new war exhausted the Roman troops as well as the Franks, who had rushed to the battlefields. As summer was approaching, it looked like the sudden war in northern Gaul came to a stalemate.
# + # + # +
Choose 6 actions!
Military - 3 (11/15 next Skill point)
-Trait: Ravenna - Strong defence +2d6 Military
-Trait: Rome - Strong defence +2d6 Military
-Trait: Legion, +1d6 for each Legion sent on a Campaign (Current Number of Legions: 4)
-Trait: Citizen Legion, +2d6 when Fighting on Roman territory, outside like a Legion
-Trait: Navy Squadron +1d6 for each Squadron send on a Campaign on the sea (Current Number of Squadrons: 1)
[ ] War against the Alemanni
-[ ] send legions to Gaul (X Legions are sent to North Gaul, +2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] send money to Syriagus (-2 Skill Progress)
[ ] Recruit more troops (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Form a Legion (Gain X Legion, each Legion counts as an action)
-[ ] Form a Citizen Legion (Gain x Legion for the same amount of Stability)
-[ ] Form a Navy Squadron (Gain X Squadron, each Squadron counts as an action)
[ ] Build additional Naval Yards(+1 Skill progress)
[ ] Hire foederati from Barbarian Lands (Gain Trait: Foederati Troops +?d6)
-[ ] Write-in who
[ ] Plan a military expedition (+3 Skill progress, War!)
-[ ] Against the Vandals
-[ ] Against the Burgundians
-[ ] Against the Visigoths
-[ ] Against the Alans
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Fortify Dalmatia
-[ ] Against threats from the North (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Against the Eastern Empire (+2 Skill Progress, ???)
[ ] Reconquer Pannonia (+5 Skill Progress, ???)
Civilian - 4 (17 / 20 next Skill point)
-Trait: Support of the Common Men +1d6 against Senators
[ ] Strengthen the image of your son in the public's eye (+1 Skill progress, +1 Stability)
[ ] Order public works on …
-[ ] Roads in Dalmatia (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Monument to honor …
--[ ] Your son (+1 Stability, ???)
--[ ] Yourself (+1 Stability, ???)
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Rule over Dalmatia
-[ ] Ovida shall rule as governor (+2 Skill Progress, ???)
-[ ] Paulus shall rule as governor (+2 Skill Progress, ???)
-[ ] Incorporate it into Italy (+4 Skill Progress, ???)
[ ] Return Armorica to Gaul (+5 Skill Progress, ???)
[ ] Write-in
Diplomacy - 2 (4/10 next Skill point)
[ ] Intervene in Syagrius' investigation in favor of …
-[ ] the Alans (+2 Skill Progress, ???)
-[ ] the Britons (+2 Skill Progress, ???)
[ ] Ask East Rome for … (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Troops
-[ ] Money
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Ask the Burgundians for … (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Troops
-[ ] Money
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Try to force a Civil War in the Burgundian Realm (+2 Skill Progress, +1 Burgundian Civil war)
[ ] Ask the Vandals for … (+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Naval Protection for trading vessels (???)
-[ ] Ask for the price of Sicily (???)
[ ] Ask the Visigoths to …(+2 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Help in the War against the Alemanni (Joins War, ???)
-[ ] Return southern Gaul to Roman rule for a price
[ ] Send an envoy to … (+1 Skill Progress)
-[ ] Germanic Kingdoms
--[ ] Write-in to who
---[ ] Recognize their realm
---[ ] Demand tribute in troops or money
[ ] Write-in
- Location
- Ireland
What exactly would this point mean? Is he trying to vassalise us?
Yeah I'm not too sure what that means either.
Power wise realistically it's clearly correct as western Rome was for the most part an anchor on the eastern part, with the eastern part having more population, more GDP per capita, and higher and more concentrated urban population thus meaning there was both better trade and an easier time defending.
Power wise realistically it's clearly correct as western Rome was for the most part an anchor on the eastern part, with the eastern part having more population, more GDP per capita, and higher and more concentrated urban population thus meaning there was both better trade and an easier time defending.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
I can only guess East Rome wants the west to admit they have that the East has the bigger Dick still?
Seems like pointless ego stroking.
Seems like pointless ego stroking.
Except they have centuries of history showing just how that doesn't work. There's a reason the Empire was split in two, then split again when they realized that wasn't enough.
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
Most likely he just wants to be able to claim to his people that he's "secured" the West and reunited the empire for propaganda purposes. Of course even in the best-case scenario for him any real power he has over us out here won't even survive him, much less the inevitable next bloody coup that puts a new short-lived dynasty on the throne in Constantinople. So we've nothing to lose except perhaps a bit of prestige.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
No, it is very specifically a cultural taboo to try to vassalize a fellow Roman. That would be considered beneath a Roman's status.
Incorrect. It has in the recent past (from their PoV) worked, and it historically worked out quite well for them as well. What didn't work was attempting a direct rule, and even then their burdens of overextension had administration as the least of their worries.
Historically, the diarchy worked on a junior-senior system of co-emperors. He is asking us to recognize that the West is junior to the East, as I have been saying would happen for quite some time. We started a political crisis when Romulus took on the titles of supreme leader of Christianity, because being Roman Emperor is both a secular and temporal title which implies being the leader of Christians* following the adoption of Christianity as the state religion. The Eastern Emperor was the one whom typically held those titles, so Romulus claiming those titles was a direct political mark indirectly claiming superiority over the East and likely damaged Zeno's standing in his half of the empire.
*That, along with the Eastern Romans having a tendency to depose popes that didn't agree with their puppet patriarch in Constantinople, is where the word "Caesaropapism" comes from.
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I don't disagree at all with that, just the post I was quoting was refering to this:
"I don't know it seems like the Eastern Roman Empire will try to control the west. And not through subtle means but actually just tell the west what to do. "
Which seems to think he believed the Eastern Empire wanted direct control, rather than the senior-junior position where the Emperor's had delegated responsibilities.
- Location
- Too Deep in the Midnight Sea
I say we can agree. Words are wind and we just need to get strong enough or the East weak enough to make them rescind this declaration at a later point.