Small Arms Commission Quest II: I swear I won't just wander off again edition.

Rifle Contest/Light Machine Gun Competition Part V - Field Testing.
With the decision made, and the orders for thirty Holl 875.1s and sixty Vz.70s placed, 2nd Battalion of the 4th Marine Regiment began conversion training and their year long testing tour, which included training up with the newly reequipped 4th Marine Tank Company and the other units it was brigaded with, and followed by standing by for operations with the Macaronesian Squadron, including a punitive operation to the island of Achinet in January 877. During the Achinet operation, the force mostly faced local guerillas using Shotguns, Hanner Magazine Rifles, Kar 51s and the odd Holborn gun, although a few engagements with government troops armed more in line with international norms occurred as well.

The following weapons were handed out:
Duff Company – Rivkes Rifle and vz.70
Erne Company – Fung Rifle and vz.70
Freddy Company – Holl 875 and 875.1
HQ Company – Fung Rifle


Duff Company was assigned two hundred and thirty five Rivkes Rifles and twenty seven Vz.70s. In training Duff company had trouble getting down to just firing single shots with the Rivkes rifle, and would accidentally fire two or three round bursts with alarming regularity. Aside from that, once they got the trigger down they actually liked it and how they went from five rounds in a magazine to twenty rounds in what worked out to be five to seven short bursts, although accidental discharges remained particularly dangerous with the Rivkes to the point that by the end of the testing Duff company approached trigger discipline with a convert's zeal. The lighter weight compared to other rifles, and the ease of reloading made it very popular as well, since marines could just top up in a spare moment instead of having to break out a reloading tool and swap magazines, and the whole thing was just more comfortable on the march or patrol than the other guns in testing. That said, grenadiers complained about the adapter and grenade sights, and everyone hated that the dust cover and bolt weren't directly connected in all circumstances leading to some odd malfunctions in training, other complaints ranged from the gun being a bit too powerful for automatic fire to twenty round magazines only really being able to hold 18 rounds after repeated use and reloading. During operations on Achinet the unit found automatic fire from the rifles to be useful in suppressing the enemy during an advance or fighting off an ambush during city fighting or in the laurel forests around the island. The gun proved reasonably accurate, and reliable enough after having spent a good three months at sea.

Erne Company and the Headquarters Company had a total of four hundred and forty eight Fung rifles assigned (235 for Erne Company and 213 for HQ) as well as Erne Company's twenty seven Vz 70s. Both Erne Company and the Headquarters found the Fung a practical weapon, and easily the most accurate with the shooting sling, although they seemed jealous of the lack of firepower that Duff and Freddy Companies could exploit, especially the smaller magazine. It's easily the best rifle for a marksman, and a massive leap over the Elta rifles they used to have though, as even without tanks supporting them, Erne Company could still overwhelm the enemy in a firefight despite the lack of firepower compared to Duff and Freddy. Grenadiers tended to just keep the gas system off and use it as a straight pull, but otherwise the gun was easy to maintain, popular with its users, and only occasionally gassed someone or burned a wayward thumb. When facing government troops, the Fung was a dramatic overmatch to their Arbatescu rifles, and against guerillas the only real problem with it was its relative heft.

Freddy Company had the Holl 875 and 875.1. The Commonality of the weapons made training easier, and the unit liked being able to freely swap magazines around in a sustained firefight. Not that they really had any. Both were a bit annoying to train on and required more bulk since the unit had to carry a significantly larger percentage of its ammunition in magazines and wore them out faster as a result of not being able to top up in combat or a spare moment, meaning that some of the magazines at the end of the Achinet expeditions were down to 75% of rated capacity. That said, the guns with the new and improved chamber performed well, and the 875 required less cleaning than the other rifles. However, grenadiers didn't like the stock on the 875, and everyone hated the position of the charging handle on both guns. The bottle opener and bipod on the 875 were extremely popular with the soldiers issued the rifle, and in general the compact nature of the weapon was appreciated, especially for the level of firepower brought to bear even if it was unnerving to fire on full auto so marines generally kept it in semi (which also preserved more ammo for the 875.1s.) The 875.1 performed worse as a machine gun in the field than the vz.70, but not by that much, as Freddy Company would mostly use them in bounding roles on the advance with (semi)automatic fire from 875s covering for them during the lull, especially as walking fire wasn't really as practical with the 875.1 as with the 875 due to the lack of a forestock. That said, an 875.1 could not provide continuous fire as well as the vz.70.

The vz.70 was issued to both Duff and Erne and saw wide use there. The lack of interchangeable magazines was an issue for both companies, but not a particularly pressing one. The unit found them entirely reliable and capable, even if they weren't as capable of sustained fire as the Balzac Portative it was replacing. That said, the vz.70 was capable of walking fire, and could generally sustain suppressive fire as well as Holl Mediums until the magazines ran dry. Duff and Erne found them extremely useful in both forest and city fighting where heavier machine guns would need to have to be mounted on a tank or an armored car to be set up in time to participate in the critical phases of a firefight. They only really needed about as much maintenance as a rifle as well, which was a nice change of pace from the ever-needy Balzac Portative.

On an additional note, Uncle Gunnysack made sure to send in a glowing report about the Rivkes rifles they stole. They've been apparently doing sterling service with the secret police during raids and made themselves especially useful during a fight between forces loyal to the old regime and the Special Investigation Branch at a former country club. In said raid, two dozen SIB agents armed with a mix of Rivkes rifles and shotguns and a platoon of Constitutional Guards managed to capture twenty men, an arms cache that included a tankette and a few of the old Holborn machine guns, as well as a stash of seventy kilos of cocaine, shutting down an attempted insurrection with minimal losses. SIB agents apparently love the light and compact little gun that can punch through any car on the market and they're looking at buying a few more so that they can have a Rivkes in every single car in their fleet as well as the usual mix of shotguns and submachine guns. That said, even they find it entirely too easy to just accidentally fire a burst or mag dump with it and consider it a safety hazard after a number of accidental discharges occurred in the field with thankfully no SIB casualties.

With the results of trials in, it is now possible to select a new service rifle and light machine gun or make some modifications based off the results of the field testing.
 
I'll vote later. I like the Rivkes, it did well, but the trigger does need to have the second stage significantly tightened. Also Vz.70 a best.
 
Based on feedback, tightening up the trigger and adopting the Rivkes seems our best bet, along with the vz. 70.

That or the Rivkes just needs a fire selector.

Rivkes could also use improved grenade sights/adaptor if we adopt. Maybe a revision on the dust cover/bolt if possible.

Might also be worth adopting the Fung as a dedicated marksman rifle.
 
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I really want to like the Holl duo, since logistics are best in life, but the responses to it are not super complimentary.
 
Honestly, I think I'd go for the following, assuming that I'm formatting this correctly. The D is for Discussion, because I don't feel comfortable making a vote yet.

[D] Plan We like it, but...
- [D] Recommend Rivkes Rifle for adoption, after it receives a modification to tighten up the trigger to mitigate the difficulties in firing the weapon in a semi-automatic fashion, as well as improvements to the grenade sights and adaptor if possible. Additionally, request that the magazines be reinforced if possible to mitigate loss of capacity due to wear and tear.
- [D] Recommend vz. 70 for adoption, with a request that, if possible, the weapon be modified to be able to feed from Rivkes magazines if needed.

I'm a little iffy on suggesting a DMR now - sooner or later, either the Rivkes will be modified for the role, or we'll get asked to set-up a competition to select one, at which point we can get guns specifically designed for the task. Or Fung will send in a modified version of their entry from this contest.
 
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I kind of like the idea of the Fung as a DMR, but hate the idea of introducing yet another kind of incompatible magazine. If we could get a version that fed from a Rivkes magazine reliably and without introducing any other glaring weakness, I could vote for that. Otherwise, probably not.
 
Just floating an idea here; not gonna call this one a hard vote yet. The Rivkes does look good, sure, but OTOH my inner procurement goon is screaming about logistics, so;

[?]Plan Logistics Is Best Girl
-[?] Recommend the Holl 875 & 875.1 for adoption
--[?]Inquire about the possibility of a forestock on the 875.1 to enable walking fire
-[?] Float the possibility of the Fung Rifle as a DMR
 
The Rivkes does look good, sure, but OTOH my inner procurement goon is screaming about logistics
Maybe a Holl DMR? It's a thing IRL so it's probably at least worth trying if you're worrying about logistics.

Hell, they can be 100% parts compatible: you just pull particularly accurate samples from the production line and slap scopes onto them.
 
Gun Reliability Positives Negatives
Rivkes Trigger issues, hard to do single shots, dust cover can lead to issues Weight Grenadiers don't like the adapter or grenade sights
Fung N/A Most accurate Lacks full auto, smaller magazines, occasionally vents gas on fingers
Holl M875 Most reliable Requires less cleaning than others, compact, bipod Soldiers can carry less ammo, grenadiers dislike stock, noone likes charging handle
Holl M875.1 As reliable as M875 Can take Holl mags, weight Slightly worse machine gun
vz.70 "Entirely reliable" Better continous fire, can compete with a medium in supressive fire More weight
 
On reread, I'd also suggest some sort of reinforcement for mags, no matter which one we adopt. Some Rivkes mags were topped at 18 after being beat around and some of the Holl magazines lost 25% of stated capacity. Or do we accept that and just try to issue new mags when ever possible?
 
On reread, I'd also suggest some sort of reinforcement for mags, no matter which one we adopt. Some Rivkes mags were topped at 18 after being beat around and some of the Holl magazines lost 25% of stated capacity. Or do we accept that and just try to issue new mags when ever possible?
Yeah, that's not a good thing. I've added a "request that the magazines be reinforced" line to my list of requests for the Rivkes rifle. I'm starting to be concerned that the number of fixes wanted for various things could be problematic.

Thankfully, my request basically just says "We like this gun, but can you make it be able to feed from these magazines in a pinch" for the vz. 70.
 
Yeah, that's not a good thing. I've added a "request that the magazines be reinforced" line to my list of requests for the Rivkes rifle. I'm starting to be concerned that the number of fixes wanted for various things could be problematic.

Thankfully, my request basically just says "We like this gun, but can you make it be able to feed from these magazines in a pinch" for the vz. 70.

To be fair, the only one I'd be remotely comfortable adopting without changes is the Fung; the Holl also needs magazine reinforcement, a redesign of the stock, and a change to the charging handle.
 
To be fair, the only one I'd be remotely comfortable adopting without changes is the Fung; the Holl also needs magazine reinforcement, a redesign of the stock, and a change to the charging handle.
True, although I also don't like the Holl rifle as much due to it's lower ammunition capacity per soldier than the other options, which is something that I don't think can readily be fixed until we start introducing intermediate caliber assault rifles.
 
True, although I also don't like the Holl rifle as much due to it's lower ammunition capacity per soldier than the other options, which is something that I don't think can readily be fixed until we start introducing intermediate caliber assault rifles.

Yeah, pretty much. So I think the Rivkes is our best bet, mainly because if people need to they can just use one magazine and top it off periodically.
 
Yeah, pretty much. So I think the Rivkes is our best bet, mainly because if people need to they can just use one magazine and top it off periodically.
Yeah, although I really do want to introduce an assault rifle at some point soon if at all possible. Battle rifles are good when you don't need to deal with the fact that they're heavy and bulky in a close quarters environment, but for something like urban combat I think the Special Investigative Branch would love a M16 or M4. Or a Steyr AUG, if we can get a bullpup design in service that works reliably.
 
Yeah, although I really do want to introduce an assault rifle at some point soon if at all possible. Battle rifles are good when you don't need to deal with the fact that they're heavy and bulky in a close quarters environment, but for something like urban combat I think the Special Investigative Branch would love a M16 or M4. Or a Steyr AUG, if we can get a bullpup design in service that works reliably.

Yeah, I believe it. I think we're in 1930s-esque equivalent, though, so "self loading battle rifle" is our best option. Although apparently the police still love the Rivkes.
 
Yeah, I believe it. I think we're in 1930s-esque equivalent, though, so "self loading battle rifle" is our best option. Although apparently the police still love the Rivkes.
Do we have a good SMG? That's a pretty 30's option for anything really close quarters thst could perhaps usefully supliment these if it's that much of an issue.
 
Yeah, I believe it. I think we're in 1930s-esque equivalent, though, so "self loading battle rifle" is our best option. Although apparently the police still love the Rivkes.
Considering that heat resistant furniture translates as asbestos in plastic, I was more thinking something like late '40s/early '50s, considering the demonstrated material sciences. The ArmaLite AR-15 was designed in 1956, so an early-ish version getting adopted wouldn't necessarily be too out of left field.

See also the fact that we're adopting battle rifles with full auto capability, something which seems a little anachronistic for a 1930s setting.
 
Considering that heat resistant furniture translates as asbestos in plastic, I was more thinking something like late '40s/early '50s, considering the demonstrated material sciences. The ArmaLite AR-15 was designed in 1956, so an early-ish version getting adopted wouldn't necessarily be too out of left field.

See also the fact that we're adopting battle rifles with full auto capability, something which seems a little anachronistic for a 1930s setting.

Hmm, true. I just know we're a generation or so on from the first quest, which was pre- or right at WW1.

Do we have a good SMG? That's a pretty 30's option for anything really close quarters thst could perhaps usefully supliment these if it's that much of an issue.

No idea, honestly.
 
Hmm, true. I just know we're a generation or so on from the first quest, which was pre- or right at WW1.
No idea, honestly.
True, although at that point I'd point out that firearms development and adoption seems to be a bit more advanced than it was IRL even in that quest - IIRC, we were adopting self-loading rifles as standard issue very quickly indeed, plus beginning to develop concepts for GPMGs and LMGs, as well as a number of other World War II esque innovations.
 
Yeah, I believe it. I think we're in 1930s-esque equivalent, though, so "self loading battle rifle" is our best option. Although apparently the police still love the Rivkes.
They use it like the FBI did Colt Monitor, with a mix of other stuff alongside it. So it's usually used alongside submachine guns and a couple of shotguns during a raid. It's not a primary arm because they've only got 250 for a classified number of agents, but they're in use for higher risk tasks (raids on like anything more than a gay bar) and with the guys who snatch dissidents out of their beds.

Do we have a good SMG? That's a pretty 30's option for anything really close quarters thst could perhaps usefully supliment these if it's that much of an issue.
It's expensive as fuck, because it's all milled and the magazines are higher quality (and thus like 3x more expensive) than the ones in a self loading rifle.

Considering that heat resistant furniture translates as asbestos in plastic, I was more thinking something like late '40s/early '50s, considering the demonstrated material sciences. The ArmaLite AR-15 was designed in 1956, so an early-ish version getting adopted wouldn't necessarily be too out of left field.

See also the fact that we're adopting battle rifles with full auto capability, something which seems a little anachronistic for a 1930s setting.
It's also in 6mm and a good 10% less powerful than .30-06 or 7.62 NATO iirc.
But fiber reinforced plastics were a thing in the 20s and 30s, this just uses woven asbestos instead of paper. Otherwise it's basically the same as Novotext or Tufnol, and is still a Phenolic resin product.

Also yes the calendar's fucked, just assume we're in the early 30s. The secret police use affordable mass market V8 powered cars when they kidnap people, the capital is turning into Weimar Berlin without the fash, and the hot new thing is subtractive process color movies. (OFC directors and critics are convinced it's a gimmick that won't last.)
 
SACQ 23/9 announcement
So, after talking with 7734 and NothingNow, I made my own SACQ. Would you like to try your hands at developing a nuclear weapon?

Also, I should make some comments about the current weapons: I am no longer as convinced about the M875.1 being the superior LMG, but I still think the M875 is the best choice of rifle. Yes, it needs a new stock (probably meaning less droop) and a new charging handle, but it is light, it is reliable, it is simple, and it is compact. The second matters especially since we are trying to increase motorization and mechanization of our armed forces.
 
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