Reality warping from Discord;'s magic. This isn't evidence. The same episode showed that the moon doesn't generate darkness as Nightmare Moon pulled it up and the darkness never arrived until it eclipsed the Sun. You're argument has been disproven so thoroughly, it has incresed the evidence on the opposite side.
That was an eclipse. Toootallly different. :V

Not actually joking here, in a magic 'verse it would be completely different, going off of symbology.
From intense sunlight, not from flying too close to the Sun. This is actually made less ambiguous by the portrayal of the sunlight passing through her wings. Are you suddenly going to claim that burning ants with a magnifying glass or sunburn are impossible now?
So how much higher up did Rarity fly before her wings puffed away? Because fun fact: it has been proven scientifically that if you go up higher then it gets colder, not harder, because of the lack of air particles to transfer heat around.

If you're making the argument that it was instead the sunlight that got her wings, then it would have happened had she stayed in her normal flight zone in the stadium anyway: from the time she went out there till the time she fell, she was exposed to the same amount of sunlight that she got when she flew much closer to the sun.

Tl;dr The sun is magic in Equestria because light and heat don't work the way they were explicitly shown to in the case of Rarity's wings, Twilight's fails, Discord's casual screwing around, and the fact that Celestia wasn't so much stronger than Nightmare Moon that she could kill her by breathing on her funny.

I mean, think about how nigh-infinitely larger our sun is compared to our teeny moon. If Luna couldn't move the sun around anywhere as easily as Celestia then all that nigh-infinite mass is easier for Celestia to move around just because she's that much stronger, according to your theories of both Life sized celestial bodies and telekinetic main strength. She should have whupped Nightmare Moon so hard she'd be appreciating her own stars for centuries.

Also log potatoes. Explain how those those fit into your proposed model of the Equestrian universe, eh? :V
 
Why? Assuming that they're actual stars and moons when there is no evidence within the actual show to indicate that conclusion is the only reason you'd ever need to have ridiculous add-ons like 'They must artificially increase and decrease the speed of light and micro-manage all the problems this would cause to prevent all of Equestria from dying every time the sun is raised*' or 'the relatively small beams used by Celestia and Chrysalis in combat massively outpower the Death Star and Celestia was mildly singed by it' or 'reality warping is changing the rules all the time and that's why everything inconsistent with normal celestial objects keeps happening'.

The evidence within the show of them being as such is 'The sun and moon exist' and 'a globe is hanging around somewhere'. I just don't see a reason to assume that when them being more like the Greco-Roman myth view of the cosmos seems more in tune with the world as presented to us.

*Let's just say if the speed of light multiplied by 8.31 that living things would abruptly have a pretty good idea of what it's like to be a vampire.

Well, for me, one of the biggest things was them having the same constellations as us, as shown in Suited for Success. As this means the Equestrian Earth is in the same spot in its Universe that we are in ours. In addition, those constellations having the same mythological origins as they did in reality would be incredibly odd, at least for some of them (eg. Orion). Then there's the fact that from the very first episode, the Sun and Moon are pointed out as clearly large enough to serve as (large) prisons, which wasn't really the way they were usually portrayed in, say, Greek myth. Then there's an actual eclipse shown in the show. Lauren Faust confirming that eternal night would have had the same consequences as in the real world (admittedly, that's not actually in the show, but knowing creator intention can be helpful).

And I admit that I tend to treat fiction as like reality unless otherwise explicitly stated, demonstrated or extrapolated vi previously known facts. In addition, that extrapolated data has to be usable. "The Sun is smaller than our Sun" is useless as we have no confirmation of how much smaller. Whereas if it's the same size as our Sun, that can be used to work stuff out. ie. er on the side of certainty and be surprised later rather than sit with nothing to analyse as there is no certainty.



Why does Celestia maintain it?

Well, I don't have a canon answer, obviously, but I can say that in my fanfic it's because it's less complicated and risky than trying to fix it. All she has to use at the moment is brute strength. Fixing it would require enormous intricacy and cooperation with the rest of the Cosmic Council which are not only bad at cooperating, none of them were born yet when the Solar System broke. The current system is useable, everyone is used to it and trying to fix it might kill everyone.


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So how much higher up did Rarity fly before her wings puffed away? Because fun fact: it has been proven scientifically that if you go up higher then it gets colder, not harder, because of the lack of air particles to transfer heat around.

Irrelevant, because ...

If you're making the argument that it was instead the sunlight that got her wings, then it would have happened had she stayed in her normal flight zone in the stadium anyway: from the time she went out there till the time she fell, she was exposed to the same amount of sunlight that she got when she flew much closer to the sun.
I am and irrelevant. Rarity would have had her wings burn off if she stayed at a low altitude. Her flying up was so she had longer to fall.


Tl;dr The sun is magic in Equestria because light and heat don't work the way they were explicitly shown to in the case of Rarity's wings,
Accounted for.

Twilight's fails, Discord's casual screwing around,
What are you talking about?

and the fact that Celestia wasn't so much stronger than Nightmare Moon that she could kill her by breathing on her funny.

I mean, think about how nigh-infinitely larger our sun is compared to our teeny moon. If Luna couldn't move the sun around anywhere as easily as Celestia then all that nigh-infinite mass is easier for Celestia to move around just because she's that much stronger, according to your theories of both Life sized celestial bodies and telekinetic main strength. She should have whupped Nightmare Moon so hard she'd be appreciating her own stars for centuries.

Apparently the fact that I am lifting the dust particles on my body is proof that I am incapable of lifting my much heavier laptop. Except I just did. Nightmare Moon's capability of lifting the moon doesn't say a thing about her ability to lift the Sun. Celestia can lift the moon too, remember? Or did you forget that lifting heavy things also gives you the ability to lift light things?

Also log potatoes. Explain how those those fit into your proposed model of the Equestrian universe, eh? :V[/QUOTE

I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
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Then there's the fact that from the very first episode, the Sun and Moon are pointed out as clearly large enough to serve as (large) prisons, which wasn't really the way they were usually portrayed in, say, Greek myth.
It is worth noting that Nightmare Moon was imprisoned in the moon, not on it or within it. It appears to me that she was more merged with the moon then that she had a physical body up there. The face that appeared on the moon when she was sealed seems to support this, I think.
 
Well, for me, one of the biggest things was them having the same constellations as us, as shown in Suited for Success. As this means the Equestrian Earth is in the same spot in its Universe that we are in ours. In addition, those constellations having the same mythological origins as they did in reality would be incredibly odd, at least for some of them (eg. Orion). Then there's the fact that from the very first episode, the Sun and Moon are pointed out as clearly large enough to serve as (large) prisons, which wasn't really the way they were usually portrayed in, say, Greek myth. Then there's an actual eclipse shown in the show. Lauren Faust confirming that eternal night would have had the same consequences as in the real world (admittedly, that's not actually in the show, but knowing creator intention can be helpful).

Stars, is again working off the basic assumption that they're giant balls of hydrogen. It's not an indicator of anything unless you've already arrived at your conclusion. I would also say that the constellations being the same is the same thing that causes almost all tools and doors to be the same.

Nightmare Moon turned into a face when sealed in the Moon. I don't think being banished to ones celestial object is quite as simple as just sticking them inside of it. I assumed it was more akin to being fused with it.

Eternal night having the same consequences of 'no crops, everything eventually starves and freezes', but people in myth were well aware of the sun being a life-giver, provider of warmth, and what allows plants to grow. It's not like that's at all unusual. I mean, you don't need knowledge of celestial mechanics to figure out that day is warmer than night, and that plants kept out of the sun wither and die. That's common knowledge no matter how far back you go.

And I admit that I tend to treat fiction as like reality unless otherwise explicitly stated, demonstrated or extrapolated vi previously known facts. In addition, that extrapolated data has to be usable. "The Sun is smaller than our Sun" is useless as we have no confirmation of how much smaller. Whereas if it's the same size as our Sun, that can be used to work stuff out. ie. er on the side of certainty and be surprised later rather than sit with nothing to analyse as there is no certainty.

In a world like My Little Pony, Elder Scrolls, Creation, The Legend of Zelda, or Slayers, I tend to ascribe cosmological effects to working off of magic. Everything else in that world is running o n magic, why is it suddenly an exception when you speak of the sun and moon and stars. Especially when something can actually change night into day and back again.

To use Legend of Zelda as example, Link in Ocarina of Time can play a few notes on his magical ocarina and either raise the sun, or lower it to nightfall. Is that an actual star? There's technically no indication other than this than it isn't, but Hyrule is magical as hell. Everywhere you step, there is magic. Why would the sun be different? Clearly, it is magical, and you can't assume it's as in reality.

Well, I don't have a canon answer, obviously, but I can say that in my fanfic it's because it's less complicated and risky than trying to fix it. All she has to use at the moment is brute strength. Fixing it would require enormous intricacy and cooperation with the rest of the Cosmic Council which are not only bad at cooperating, none of them were born yet when the Solar System broke. The current system is useable, everyone is used to it and trying to fix it might kill everyone.

But for what you're speaking of to function, she doesn't just have brute strength. Her control is fucking amazing. You've ascribed reality warping to micro manage speed of light, she can prevent the planet from being shredded by gravitational shifts every day, but she can't get a normal orbit going? Bullshit. Complete bullshit. Starting up the orbit and just checking on it every day to make sure things aren't getting fucked up and you did it right is ridiculously easier when you're operating at that scale of power and control.
 
...I feel like this is completely off the rails now.

So, is it a definite that the moon necklace/amulet/watev can defo work as a catalyst for Luna? Because I'm still for the route of summoning by whoever is most compatible.
 
It is worth noting that Nightmare Moon was imprisoned in the moon, not on it or within it. It appears to me that she was more merged with the moon then that she had a physical body up there. The face that appeared on the moon when she was sealed seems to support this, I think.

I fail to see how this is relevant. If the moon wasn't bigger than her, she'd have had bodyparts sticking out.

Stars, is again working off the basic assumption that they're giant balls of hydrogen. It's not an indicator of anything unless you've already arrived at your conclusion. I would also say that the constellations being the same is the same thing that causes almost all tools and doors to be the same.

When two objects look the same, have the same function and are in the same place, you can assume they're the same object even if it has started behaving oddly.

Nightmare Moon turned into a face when sealed in the Moon. I don't think being banished to ones celestial object is quite as simple as just sticking them inside of it. I assumed it was more akin to being fused with it.

Even if they fused, again, if the moon wasn't bigger than her, she'd have had bodyparts sticking out.

Eternal night having the same consequences of 'no crops, everything eventually starves and freezes', but people in myth were well aware of the sun being a life-giver, provider of warmth, and what allows plants to grow. It's not like that's at all unusual. I mean, you don't need knowledge of celestial mechanics to figure out that day is warmer than night, and that plants kept out of the sun wither and die. That's common knowledge no matter how far back you go.

It tells us about the Sun's energy output.


In a world like My Little Pony, Elder Scrolls, Creation, The Legend of Zelda, or Slayers, I tend to ascribe cosmological effects to working off of magic. Everything else in that world is running o n magic, why is it suddenly an exception when you speak of the sun and moon and stars. Especially when something can actually change night into day and back again.

"Working off of magic" means absolutely squat. What the magic does is the relevant thing.

To use Legend of Zelda as example, Link in Ocarina of Time can play a few notes on his magical ocarina and either raise the sun, or lower it to nightfall. Is that an actual star?

Yes.

There's technically no indication other than this than it isn't,
Which means it is. That's how fiction works. If nothing indicates it isn't, it is, until there's an indication that it isn't.

but Hyrule is magical as hell. Everywhere you step, there is magic. Why would the sun be different? Clearly, it is magical, and you can't assume it's as in reality.

Again, that's a pointless statement. People walk. Physical surfaces exist. The colour green is present. Something being magical doesn't stop the laws of reality applying to it unless the magic is specifically stopping that specific law and that law ONLY. If this were not the case, it would mean that it would be literally completely impossible to understand any story any containing magic at all.



But for what you're speaking of to function, she doesn't just have brute strength. Her control is fucking amazing. You've ascribed reality warping to micro manage speed of light,

I ascribed this to powered up Twilight. Not Celestia.
she can prevent the planet from being shredded by gravitational shifts every day, but she can't get a normal orbit going? Bullshit. Complete bullshit. Starting up the orbit and just checking on it every day to make sure things aren't getting fucked up and you did it right is ridiculously easier when you're operating at that scale of power and control.

It's more to do with the fact that telekenetically moving around something you're standing on is much harder. Not to mention that Earth isn't her Celestial body in the first place. And she'd have to we've through over a hundred other celestial bodies each of which is controlled by a different individual and which she'd have to negotiate with simultaneously.
 
Apparently the fact that I am lifting the dust particles on my body is proof that I am incapable of lifting my much heavier laptop. Except I just did. Nightmare Moon's capability of lifting the moon doesn't say a thing about her ability to lift the Sun. Celestia can lift the moon too, remember? Or did you forget that lifting heavy things also gives you the ability to lift light things?
Did you perhaps read the names in that quoted section backwards or something? Luna lifts the moon. Celestia lifts the sun. It's about as easy for both of them to lift their respective objects, except Celestia's Sun is ludicrously bigger than Luna's moon, going by the assumption that they're the same size as they are IRL. Therefore, for each percentage of effort Celestia expends, she gets an effect about that much more powerful, ratio-wise, than a percentage of Luna's effort.

My point is that, going by that ratio, that should have been such a curb stomp that it wasn't even funny.
It's more to do with the fact that telekenetically moving around something you're standing on is much harder. Not to mention that Earth isn't her Celestial body in the first place. And she'd have to we've through over a hundred other celestial bodies each of which is controlled by a different individual and which she'd have to negotiate with simultaneously
We... don't really care about your fanon. :V
 
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Did you perhaps read the names in that quoted section backwards or something? Luna lifts the moon. Celestia lifts the sun. It's about as easy for both of them to lift their respective objects, except Celestia's Sun is ludicrously bigger than Luna's moon, going by the assumption that they're the same size as they are IRL. Therefore, for each percentage of effort Celestia expends, she gets an effect about that much more powerful, ratio-wise, than a percentage of Luna's effort.

My point is that, going by that ratio, that should have been such a curb stomp that it wasn't even funny.

Did you miss the part where Nightmare Moon was far more powerful than Luna was (that was the entire point of the transformation, after all)? (Or the fact that neither Celestia nor Luna are ever shown exerting any effort at all when lifting their respective bodies, so there isn't any evidence at all that Luna exerts the same effort that Celestia does?)

We... don't really care about your fanon. :V
You don't have to, but Xellos asked.
 
Even if they fused, again, if the moon wasn't bigger than her, she'd have had bodyparts sticking out.

Says who? Both on magically sealing somebody inside an object resulting in mass limitations, or the small Moon being smaller than Nightmare Moon. She's not that big. It doesn't have to be the size of the Moon to be much, much larger than her.

OR they could have just used reality warping, I guess. :V

It tells us about the Sun's energy output.

Which tells us nothing about its size or composition when a small purple horse can blast a library sized tree more than twice it's height out of the ground. That's some energy output.

"Working off of magic" means absolutely squat. What the magic does is the relevant thing.

High magic world's practically never have relation to reality. We're talking about a world where clouds do not form unless something magical creates them. Where gems are edible. Where the sun and moon revolve around a planet, not the other way around. You can assume nothing except what is actually depicted or stated in universe.


Which means it is. That's how fiction works. If nothing indicates it isn't, it is, until there's an indication that it isn't.

And there have been quite a few indications that the objects of discussion cannot be the objects they are in real life without micro managing and changing physical constants on the fly. Yet that doesn't seem to matter to you, since you just crow 'reality warping' no matter how little sense it makes.

Again, that's a pointless statement. People walk. Physical surfaces exist. The colour green is present. Something being magical doesn't stop the laws of reality applying to it unless the magic is specifically stopping that specific law and that law ONLY. If this were not the case, it would mean that it would be literally completely impossible to understand any story any containing magic at all.

It isn't impossible. It's just that high magic worlds usually function off the same paradigm that the worlds depicted in mythology function off of.

I ascribed this to powered up Twilight. Not Celestia.

Actually, you did ascribe it to Celestia. You just didn't realize it at the moment. Celestia does the same 'instant effect' that Twilight does. Which per your assumptions, can only be justified by the alicorns micro-managing universal constants to accelerate light and then slow it down before it causes living things to be incinerated by sunlight.

Or it could just be that that said object isn't a star, but a magical light, heat, and life generating crystal like every other important magical object in MLP and there's nothing odd about such a thing at all.

It's more to do with the fact that telekenetically moving around something you're standing on is much harder. Not to mention that Earth isn't her Celestial body in the first place. And she'd have to we've through over a hundred other celestial bodies each of which is controlled by a different individual and which she'd have to negotiate with simultaneously.

Okay, so earlier you were saying that there's nothing special about moving the celestial bodies and that directly translates to their raw power, but now Celestia can't manage Earth even though in your view it's ridiculously smaller and thus easier to manage, because it's not 'her celestial body'.

Be somewhat consistent, will you.

(...Also, where exactly are these 'hundred other celestial bodies and who are these other individuals? Does every unicorn get his own personal asteroid?)
 
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Did you miss the part where Nightmare Moon was far more powerful than Luna was (that was the entire point of the transformation, after all)? (Or the fact that neither Celestia nor Luna are ever shown exerting any effort at all when lifting their respective bodies, so there isn't any evidence at all that Luna exerts the same effort that Celestia does?)
It increased her power over four hundred (400) times, not even counting the sun's solid core of heavier matter? Because that's about how much larger the sun is than the moon, and, as I've stated before, I'm not even factoring in that the moon is a lot less dense, overall, than the sun is.

If size is even barely related to their relative power levels then the Nightmare would have to be on the level of some sort of Elder God in order to have swayed the balance even partially in Her own favor.
You don't have to, but Xellos asked.
Oh, I misinterpreted that. Sorry. I assumed that you were acting as if that was canon for this quest. :V
 
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I'm sorry, what's the point of this argument again? I think I missed it. Oh, and coul someone tally the vote? Currently not on my computer. Update is going to be a tad slow.
 
I'm sorry, what's the point of this argument again? I think I missed it. Oh, and coul someone tally the vote? Currently not on my computer. Update is going to be a tad slow.
Sereg says that the MLP celestial bodies are all IRL sized, despite the multiple impossibilities (due to the complexity/competence required that they haven't demonstrated in anything else) required, and we're all arguing with him. He says that saying that they use magic instead is silly, but his solution requires even more magic. :V
 
Sereg says that the MLP celestial bodies are all IRL sized, despite the multiple impossibilities (due to the complexity/competence required that they haven't demonstrated in anything else) required, and we're all arguing with him. He says that saying that they use magic instead is silly, but his solution requires even more magic. :V

Alright. Incredibly irrelevant, but alright. Equestria Physics is extremely wonky as a whole, so I can't imagine why you guys are arguing about this. Equestria Moon could be the size of IRL for all it cares, and it would probably be the same. The same could be said with the Sun. Why? Magic.

I mean, shit, impossibilities? Pfft. Equestria is a home for a spirit of Chaos that could make inpossibilities screw themselves.

And while this is irrelevant, I'll say that despite Cadence doesn't have a cosmic power like moving the sun and whatnot -- she could, but she would probably mess it up --, she does have her domain. Her domain being Love. It's actually pretty terrifying.
 
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Alright. Incredibly irrelevant, but alright. Equestria Physics is extremely wonky as a whole, so I can't imagine you guys are arguing about this. Equestria Moon could be the size of IRL for all it cares, and it would probably be the same. The same could be said with the Sun.

I mean, shit, impossibilities? Pfft. Equestria is a home for a spirit of Chaos that could make inpossibilities screw themselves.

And while this is irrelevant, I'll say that despite Cadence doesn't have a cosmic power like moving the sun and whatnot -- she could, but she would probably mess it up --, she does have her domain. Her domain being Love. It's actually pretty terrifying.

It was important because they were trying to use it to say that stuff like the Queen Chrysalis-Princess Celestia beam battle involved energy outputs and destructive power more potent than the Death Star.

Which is not true in this Quest..?
 
It was important because they were trying to use it to say that stuff like the Queen Chrysalis-Princess Celestia beam battle involved energy outputs and destructive power more potent than the Death Star.

Which is not true in this Quest..?

In my headcanon, which I suppose would also apply to this, the reason why Celestia lost to that adorable bug-mare is because she doesn't want to leave Canterlot as a crater.

I don't know much about Star Wars, but I'll assune that th destructive power of the Death Star is the equivalent of a... shit, I don't know, Kamehameha?

Meaning, focused or not, Chrysalis' and Celestia's beam battle would leave a much, much more collateral damage than a simple scorch mark. Yes, the beam was strong, but it wasn't that strong.

So yes, this is not true in this Quest.
 
The death stars power output can actually be reasonably accurately calculated, from the explosion seen.
Its something like six orders of magnitude more than you would need to just instantly shatter a planet (Shatter in this case: imbue the fragments with enough energy that theyll overcome the gravity holding/pulling them together).

Needless to say thats far more that just six orders of magnitude more then what youd just need to wipe out life, which is orders of magnitude more than what youd need to destroy a city or anything definitely seen on screen in either Nasu or Equestria (nasu background, descriptions, and CCC may have such though).
 
Anyone want to tally the vote for the author, or, do I need to go through and do this manuallly? I don't WANT to but, you know, if that's what it takes to get an update....

Manual wins. Stubborn want of an update and not feeling very well combines for....A victory?

[X] How about shopping in Verde? 3 votes
RexHeller
ZeroForever
Yog


[X] How about shopping in Verde? 2 votes
-[X] Prioritize basic clothing and other utility things that we would need short-term.
-[X] Try to socialize with Rin and unwind a little bit. We need it after recent events and the emotional backlash..
--[X] Also look for a possible leather jacket replacement. Even if we likely can't afford anything decent right now we can see how much it would cost us ot where to look for it later.
Felspite
query

Edit: Though, I will note, I DO like this whole conversation and would normally be quite cheery about it and likely to join in! Personally, i'm rather fond of the high powered Princesses theories, but that may just be me.
 
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The death stars power output can actually be reasonably accurately calculated, from the explosion seen.
Its something like six orders of magnitude more than you would need to just instantly shatter a planet (Shatter in this case: imbue the fragments with enough energy that theyll overcome the gravity holding/pulling them together).

Needless to say thats far more that just six orders of magnitude more then what youd just need to wipe out life, which is orders of magnitude more than what youd need to destroy a city or anything definitely seen on screen in either Nasu or Equestria (nasu background, descriptions, and CCC may have such though).

Then yeah, no, the beam-battle was not the equivalent of the Death Star. Even if Chrysalis had enough power to do that, she wanted to harvest those ponies, not turn them into ashes.
 
I saw this, so I shall elaborate on this:
I don't know much about Star Wars, but I'll assune that th destructive power of the Death Star is the equivalent of a... shit, I don't know, Kamehameha?
The Death Star is a planet buster. I don't really know what's up with DB's moon, but there's no way Roshi could exert enough spiritual force to blow up our moon, and the moon the Death Star blew up was far more large and dense.

It's like comparing Batman to Superman: Batman is so obviously superior that even daring to suggest that Superman could win angers some people, because nobody is allowed to be wrong on the internet.
 
And while this is irrelevant, I'll say that despite Cadence doesn't have a cosmic power like moving the sun and whatnot -- she could, but she would probably mess it up --, she does have her domain. Her domain being Love. It's actually pretty terrifying.
When it comes to Cadence, it's also important to remember that she's not very old. She probably hasn't reached the peak of her power and experience yet and won't for a while.
 
Twentieth Update
[] How about shopping in Verde?

---​

You voice your suggestion to Rin immediately, moments after she asked her question. You need to buy clothes of your own, a phone charger, and perhaps a leather jacket. It's a passing thought that remained into your mind. Horrifying as it was to wear something made of the skin of a former living being, you have to admit that you liked wearing the one the Griffon ambassador had given you, despite the horrified stares you received from the castle servants.

Aside from your shoes crunching on the road, the walk to the bus stop is a silent affair. You're not exactly keen on talking since you don't exactly have a topic to talk about, and Rin herself seems to be deep in thought.

Few people stand under the cover of the bus stop; young and old. Some you think you've seen passing by the school's hallway. They do a double-take upon seeing you and Rin side by side, before huddling together, whispering about something.

The bus arrives shortly after so, and the two of you step inside. The bus driver, a wrinkly old man in his middle age, sit on his chair, and as the two of you pass him, you drop a coin of 500 yen into the pay box, and take a seat.

A half an hour of silence between the you and Rin later, of which you spent by gazing at the window, watching the city speed pass by, you arrive at Verde, a mall located in Shinto.

What now?

[] Write in

Short update, but eh, what did you expect?
 
Says who? Both on magically sealing somebody inside an object resulting in mass limitations, or the small Moon being smaller than Nightmare Moon. She's not that big. It doesn't have to be the size of the Moon to be much, much larger than her.

OR they could have just used reality warping, I guess. :V

It's true that it doesn't have to be as large as the moon to be much larger than her, but it does have to be much larger than most mythological portrayals of it. Of course, I didn't mention this earlier, but I treat the mythological equivalents of Celestia and Luna the same way. The fact that the author doesn't realise how impressive the feat they're ascribing to their god is doesn't change what they're claiming said deity does (So, yes, I ascribe similar power levels, to , say, Apollo, though he at least uses his chariot rather than telekinetic force).



Which tells us nothing about its size or composition when a small purple horse can blast a library sized tree more than twice it's height out of the ground. That's some energy output.

Are you really comparing the amount of energy the Earth receives from the Sun to a tiny explosion? It tells us how much energy the Earth s recieving from the Sun, which in turn provides a minimum temperature for the Sun (baring in mind that the entire surface of the planet has to receive solar energy), which provides a minimum distance from the Earth, which provides a minimum size.



High magic world's practically never have relation to reality. We're talking about a world where clouds do not form unless something magical creates them. Where gems are edible. Where the sun and moon revolve around a planet, not the other way around. You can assume nothing except what is actually depicted or stated in universe.

Again, the fact that we're capable of processing the images at all (light and colours exist. Ground exists. Plants exist. Motion exists. Walking happens on top of the ground. etc.) means that the vast majority is the same. All the differences even implied in the show are minor in comparison.




And there have been quite a few indications that the objects of discussion cannot be the objects they are in real life without micro managing and changing physical constants on the fly. Yet that doesn't seem to matter to you, since you just crow 'reality warping' no matter how little sense it makes.

It doesn't, anymore than saying "magic" does for you. If magic can replace the Sun,it can just as easily micro-manage those physical forces as it would have had to anyway.



It isn't impossible. It's just that high magic worlds usually function off the same paradigm that the worlds depicted in mythology function off of.

Except that Equestria has far more advanced technology than mythology, they have globes of their planet, they even have models of their Solar System including other planets. There isn't a single classical myth where people knew that other planets were planets.



Actually, you did ascribe it to Celestia. You just didn't realize it at the moment. Celestia does the same 'instant effect' that Twilight does. Which per your assumptions, can only be justified by the alicorns micro-managing universal constants to accelerate light and then slow it down before it causes living things to be incinerated by sunlight.

I was wondering if you were going to put that up. Celestia has been shown in Lesson Zero to correct the Sun's orbit multiple times per day. It's also been shown that what she does for the Summer Sun Celebration is only for show. She's controlling the Sun for a lot longer before she starts her demonstration. The Sun rose eight minutes earlier than it appeared to.

Or it could just be that that said object isn't a star, but a magical light, heat, and life generating crystal like every other important magical object in MLP and there's nothing odd about such a thing at all.

Neither the Sun nor the Moon have crystalline appearances. And if it was a heat generating crystal, it'd fry large sections of the planet, freeze most of it or have to be very far away and therefore very large.



Okay, so earlier you were saying that there's nothing special about moving the celestial bodies and that directly translates to their raw power, but now Celestia can't manage Earth even though in your view it's ridiculously smaller and thus easier to manage, because it's not 'her celestial body'.

Be somewhat consistent, will you.
Not her Celestial body and therefore she'd have to steal it. She can, but putting the planet in a tug of war is a bad idea. And again, the size isn't the issue. The fact that she's standing on it is.

(...Also, where exactly are these 'hundred other celestial bodies and who are these other individuals? Does every unicorn get his own personal asteroid?)

Discord gets Eris, Cadance gets Venus, Chrysalis gets Ganymede etc. Unicorns are not the only inhabitants of the setting. Again though, that's just in my version and not canon, but it's just an example of a possible reason of which many could exist.

It increased her power over four hundred (400) times, not even counting the sun's solid core of heavier matter? Because that's about how much larger the sun is than the moon, and, as I've stated before, I'm not even factoring in that the moon is a lot less dense, overall, than the sun is.

I don't care if it increased her power a trillion times. Besides, again, we never see Luna exerting any effort in raising the moon. For all we knew, to her, it;s the equivalent of an atom and the Sun is the equivalent of several kilograms to Celestia.

If size is even barely related to their relative power levels then the Nightmare would have to be on the level of some sort of Elder God in order to have swayed the balance even partially in Her own favor.

So?


Sereg says that the MLP celestial bodies are all IRL sized, despite the multiple impossibilities (due to the complexity/competence required that they haven't demonstrated in anything else) required, and we're all arguing with him. He says that saying that they use magic instead is silly, but his solution requires even more magic. :V

You just claimed that it is physically impossible for anyone you've ever meant to be physically capable of doing anything that you personally haven't witnessed. I hope you realise how ridiculous that is.

Alright. Incredibly irrelevant, but alright. Equestria Physics is extremely wonky as a whole, so I can't imagine why you guys are arguing about this. Equestria Moon could be the size of IRL for all it cares, and it would probably be the same. The same could be said with the Sun. Why? Magic.

I mean, shit, impossibilities? Pfft. Equestria is a home for a spirit of Chaos that could make inpossibilities screw themselves.

And while this is irrelevant, I'll say that despite Cadence doesn't have a cosmic power like moving the sun and whatnot -- she could, but she would probably mess it up --, she does have her domain. Her domain being Love. It's actually pretty terrifying.

Quest Master is always right about their own setting. No problem.

(To avoid cluttering up the thread, if people want to continue discussing this with me, PMs would almost certainly be better)

EDIT:

[x]Buy clothes
 
[X] Buy clothes
[X] Go look for a phone for Rin
[X] Window shop for a laptop and other high-tech gadgetry
[X] Spend some time hanging out with Rin, trying to get to know her better.
 
[X] Buy clothes
[X] Go look for a phone for Rin
[X] Window shop for a laptop and other high-tech gadgetry
[X] Spend some time hanging out with Rin, trying to get to know her better.
[X] Ask Rin what her problem with Kotomine Kirei is.
 
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