Phase Timer
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For all readers and writers
After much ado, our new tagging system is here and being rolled out to the userbase. Read more here!
Archeo Lumiere
The Prince's Archivist
- Location
- Lumiose City, Kalos
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
Furthermore, it makes the balance 13:3:2 if Nictis and Nani are Neutral 3P, which is a perfectly reasonable balance and might actually have us done with this game today
Archeo Lumiere
The Prince's Archivist
- Location
- Lumiose City, Kalos
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
If I'm wrong I'm pretty sure I'm dead either way, but I'm going with what I'm good at here, which is Mech and Flavor.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't particularly trust Nictis so I haven't said too much, but yes
- Location
- Oregon, USA
I am off plane 1 for like an hour.
- Location
- Oregon, USA
??? I think you mixed up the reactions. Superconduct isn't pyro.
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Actually... I have a mechanical thought, that makes me want to place a really weird vote.
Flavor wise it makes sense for scum to have multiple elements, since the Fatui have both natural and artificial visions i.e. delusions, and it makes sense for Paimon to be an Element Copier. I think the right vote mechanically is
[X] Vote Young Pyromancer
I might be wrong, but if there's something I'm Good at, it's Mechanics.
Fake Edit: It's a good thing that the no deleting posts rule only applies here, because I accidentally posted the above into the wrong thread entirely
Wait, so you're saying there's three element copiers? All non town? And one is a transporter? What? Also, Paimon was very clearly a joke.
I have no idea what you're trying to do here. This is a horrible argument.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
An answer towards Shalmoa's (later revealed) cheeky question to try and gauge people's thoughts on the PM kill, Nictis here both gives some potential credit to Transporter = town, which is something Nictis has done occasionally this game, but puts some distrust in with PM being a swap target regardless, nothing inherently bad. In the scum Nictis world this is trying to bait the person that redirected their team's kill into a reveal, while not revealing their knowledge however, literally only Transporter, Scum (if non-transporter), or the Redirector (Shalmoa) know if something was moved at this juncture.
Shalmoa kinda masks off to scum immediately here, probably wasn't a good play to do this early.
Oh, huh. So that was you.
I'm looking forward to the grand reveal
Nictis is very intelligent so could've immediately deduced Shalmoa's exact involvement here, however it would be much simpler for scum to understand than town based off of the above. (Not impossible, again, Shalmoa was much too loose and cheeky with being informed and likely behind it.
Also as I was typing up lower in this quote stack, Nictis has a bit additional defense for quickly putting the pieces together because they were the night 1 redirection target of Shalmoa, meaning this is a frankly much lesser source of suspicion than I originally was ranking it as.
YP, going with the PM kill being an intentional target, I think looks good for YP, because scum probably already deduced from the Shalmoa quote above what happened since we have people saying the redirection is loud, IE Ori knew directly that they were forced elsewhere and as such we can suspect that was shared in scum chat.
I'm just grabbing the first bits of this very strange interaction about the neighborhood chat, I just find the whole interaction odd.
I just find this whole thing strange, I fall more on the side of Nictis in the exchange, but my highest scum pair reading is Nictis + Clown so I COULD see this being a play to create both distance from each other when they know Ori is doomed this phase, as the caught killer, while also giving them defense for being able to communicate... regardless I at least believe they are both in that neighborhood truthfully. And again I just find this whole exchange weird.
Honestly, at least evidence of Nictis's claim being consistent (that I totally didn't only just now notice)
Nictis Setting up either Distance with Archeo or a targeting preference, not really alignment indicative but the whole Archeo/CB thing is a consistent mental space for Nictis, and frankly it only makes me more confident that YP and Usili are town here.
Aaahhh more exchanges between Nictis and CB I don't quite understand... my only question is why choose to have this in thread over in neighborhood?
(I'm going to post this a take some extra moments away because this is getting too long again)
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Nah. I'm calling a sanity check on this one.
Now that you've pointed that out, I changed my mind. They are definitely unaligned. Sure, they could have done SOMETHING to distance. But that exchange is too ??? to be anything but real.
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Also plane 2 is almost off so if you have something to ask me now or never… or like in two hours I guess, but that's less dramatic.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
How hard set are you on going with no elimination this phase, is it something you would like us to do, want us to consider it, or would prefer we go for an elimination?
- Location
- Oregon, USA
I thought about it and took it back. Scum will just wait, then we're in the same spot but Usili is off watcher.
Airplane mode now wheee
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
... I don't care anymore.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I mean frankly I made a lot of mistakes this game and while I really really don't like Archeo's hammer I can deeply sympathize with just wanting the game to be over. I want to have Comi's energy to go through Nictis and Archeo's back catalogue and compare them rather than have to assess by memory (Because frankly if Archeo is scum Comi is my best guess for a partner at this point, frankly) but like... I just don't have the energy at this point in the game.
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Vaaaaaariaaablleeeeee
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm not as sold on that as you, frankly. I could very easily see a Variable kill to frame a transport that ended up working out or something along those lines, especially since as I recall Comi never explicitly claimed he was transported. It would be very lucky, but I don't see it as impossible at all. And I noted that I was assuming Archeo-Scum there, I would say the only good partners for Archeo are you or him, frankly, and I think Comi works better than you do.
Trying to decide if this actually contradicts Nictis' claim, or if it was Shalmoa being cute. Shalmoa was pretty careful with his wording here, though whether or not it was to protect Nictis not having anything or protecting the specific nature of those results can't be said. Sigh.
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Yes he did. That was what got people speculating in the first place.
- Location
- Oregon, USA
To elaborate, no one claimed the other end. So people thought it could have been variable. And then I claimed and confirmed it.
- Location
- Oregon, USA
I mean, with the weird action stuff, I guess Comi's could be scum doctor pulling a WGG, and he could have not been redirected due to an elemental tag. Or Nictis's Hugh doctor speculation is right and Comi is BP Vest + something else that hasn't come up, like doublevoter. But otherwise the only Comi scumpair that makes remote sense is exactly me.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
In my defense that was a one-line post almost a month ago, this game has been insanely info-heavy, and I frankly do not have the energy to cross-check every claim I made this game by searching the backlog
Anyway, frankly, the things that get me stuck on Nictis-scum is
1. Why on Earth would Nictis claim no-action as scum? Nictis knows he's on the shortlist at this point, it draws attention to him in a way that he can't possibly want, is not akin to any townrole in the game, and completely goes against the powerscale of the game in general. It's a frankly terrible fakeclaim outside refuging in audacity, which Nictis absolutely would do, so I'm not ruling it out, but when pressure is going to be on you it's bizarre, and the fact is Shalmoa's claim regarding him reads like obfuscating a no-result to me given how very careful he is about the wording, especially in the second part.
2. Archeo's hammer and their bizarre swings after that in a way that don't make sense, as well as their reticence to even explain why on Earth they did the hammer to the point that I had to poke him about it several times.
3. Archeo's claim feeling like it's basically continually shifting or being obfuscated and basically holding together with duct tape, and frankly Nictis is right that I have a very similar power only weaker. Frankly I'm not convinced it is within the powerscale of the game for town to have in addition to everything else.
4. I feel like the way Archeo basically threw themselves into setup analysis and forced the game into basically a social dead-zone was in some ways ideal for scum and in general their play has given me bad vibes throughout.
Things in favor of Nictis being scum
1. Gut.
2. The way N3 went does make sense to me as Nictis-scum, since Petroleum is otherwise a really weird kill
3. Nictis has a wider variety of potential partners.
4. On its face, Shalmoa's claim appears to contradict Nictis' claim, depending on how you read the wording.
5. I could see Nictis refuging in audacity here with his claim.
Meh. Maybe I'll look at interactions later, but I'm honestly not sold on either of these enough for my liking.
Anyway, frankly, the things that get me stuck on Nictis-scum is
1. Why on Earth would Nictis claim no-action as scum? Nictis knows he's on the shortlist at this point, it draws attention to him in a way that he can't possibly want, is not akin to any townrole in the game, and completely goes against the powerscale of the game in general. It's a frankly terrible fakeclaim outside refuging in audacity, which Nictis absolutely would do, so I'm not ruling it out, but when pressure is going to be on you it's bizarre, and the fact is Shalmoa's claim regarding him reads like obfuscating a no-result to me given how very careful he is about the wording, especially in the second part.
2. Archeo's hammer and their bizarre swings after that in a way that don't make sense, as well as their reticence to even explain why on Earth they did the hammer to the point that I had to poke him about it several times.
3. Archeo's claim feeling like it's basically continually shifting or being obfuscated and basically holding together with duct tape, and frankly Nictis is right that I have a very similar power only weaker. Frankly I'm not convinced it is within the powerscale of the game for town to have in addition to everything else.
4. I feel like the way Archeo basically threw themselves into setup analysis and forced the game into basically a social dead-zone was in some ways ideal for scum and in general their play has given me bad vibes throughout.
Things in favor of Nictis being scum
1. Gut.
2. The way N3 went does make sense to me as Nictis-scum, since Petroleum is otherwise a really weird kill
3. Nictis has a wider variety of potential partners.
4. On its face, Shalmoa's claim appears to contradict Nictis' claim, depending on how you read the wording.
5. I could see Nictis refuging in audacity here with his claim.
Meh. Maybe I'll look at interactions later, but I'm honestly not sold on either of these enough for my liking.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
... Right. I'm doing one final post to clarify things, then I'm done. Welcome to MyLo, I'm voting Archeo. Remember that tiebreak rules are that the first person to reach the tie is the one that goes.
@Archeo Lumiere list out your night actions and results, separate by standard action and elemental action. ie:
N1-
Elemental- Shalmoa, no result
Observed- Hugh (swirled x y and Comi, x had this happen.) and Usili (____) 99 charges remaining.
Instead of:
"I observed (the term I said I use specifically for my action) these two players."
@Clown Bean I believe I made my role clear on like D3 in the neighborhood, if you want a refresher on when it was known. I might have also mentioned checking both of you on N2, can't recall and don't care to check atm.
@ComiTurtle Your claimed action for N3 was to target yourself with a Standard Action that applied Hydro. Clown Bean targeted you with an elemental application of Geo. Archeo targeted you with a Standard Action that applied Anemo. YP transported you with a non-elemental standard action.
World 1: Elements attach to players.
-CB's Geo applies to you
-You are transported by YP, Geo moves with you.
-Archeo applies Anemo to your house
-Your self-targeted ability hits house and Swirls.
World 2: Elements attach to houses.
-CB's Geo applies to you.
-You are transported by YP, the Geo remains.
-Archeo applies Anemo to your house. It does not interact with Geo.
-Your self targeted action applies Hydro to your house and causes both Swirl and Crystallize to trigger.
@Usili 2.0 ... I don't think I have anything to say to you. Vote Archeo
@Young Pyromancer This is nonsense.
@Archeo Lumiere list out your night actions and results, separate by standard action and elemental action. ie:
N1-
Elemental- Shalmoa, no result
Observed- Hugh (swirled x y and Comi, x had this happen.) and Usili (____) 99 charges remaining.
Instead of:
"I observed (the term I said I use specifically for my action) these two players."
@Clown Bean I believe I made my role clear on like D3 in the neighborhood, if you want a refresher on when it was known. I might have also mentioned checking both of you on N2, can't recall and don't care to check atm.
@ComiTurtle Your claimed action for N3 was to target yourself with a Standard Action that applied Hydro. Clown Bean targeted you with an elemental application of Geo. Archeo targeted you with a Standard Action that applied Anemo. YP transported you with a non-elemental standard action.
World 1: Elements attach to players.
-CB's Geo applies to you
-You are transported by YP, Geo moves with you.
-Archeo applies Anemo to your house
-Your self-targeted ability hits house and Swirls.
World 2: Elements attach to houses.
-CB's Geo applies to you.
-You are transported by YP, the Geo remains.
-Archeo applies Anemo to your house. It does not interact with Geo.
-Your self targeted action applies Hydro to your house and causes both Swirl and Crystallize to trigger.
@Usili 2.0 ... I don't think I have anything to say to you. Vote Archeo
@Young Pyromancer This is nonsense.
Clarify this. Does it say that there are actions that act before it, or that it does not affect the elemental phase? Because the first is something no GM would ever tell you, and the second is how the game works.
And that's it for me. Ping me at game end or Day 7.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, I think I could argue my way into voting Nictis, but I just can't say I'll believe it. That hammer was just too much for me. If this loses the game, it'll not be the first bad call I made this game, so it is what it is.
[x] vote Archeo Lumiere
[x] vote Archeo Lumiere
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We now move into the Clown Bean basically tries to save Ori section of Day 4. Additionally I believe that this topic of Mylo being brought up is both a play to try and make people at least reconsider actions (which frankly is fine) but also a play to try and cast doubt onto Shalmoa's claim of attacked + Healed, reduce ideas of SK which push the game from 4 mafia + SK, to 5 Mafia + 3rd party. A launching platform for further posts.
Further preparation to defend Ori
I'll be honest, at this point I think Ori is probably just checked out town and Shalmoa is lying. Part of this comes down to the D1 stuff; Shalmoa's vote makes perfect sense as a scum bussing Dino and then swinging over to Zaealix during the exact time that the momentum is shifting with no real reason beyond "Okay" at the time. He says that he doesn't watch Archeo lynched for literally no reason. He also pokes Comi and then doesn't explore those engagements at all and then declares Comi town because he "liked his responses" without any sort of elaboration on what he liked. He has not mentioned Zaealix once at all during D1. He also defended Archeo a second time against YP, his is despite the fact that he never actually explains why he doesn't like the "jump on Archeo" whatsoever.
How a few hours and Comi being the lead wagon change your perspective I guess
A lot of the rest of thi9s is theory stuff I can't unpacki, but Shalmoa seems to have given up on scumhunting in general despite complaining about thei nfoleaking and massive dump on a previous day too.
Ori meanwhile, has been frustrated for the last two game days about how the game has been deluged into setup spec rather than actual analysis, and frankly has been disengaged from the game as a whole. I can entirely beleiving she simply can't outargue Shalmoa or not want to, and frankly I think that her late vote on Zaealix is a town-tell if anything; she joined the wagon for no reason at that point and therefore tied herself to a mislynch for no good purpose. And frankly the fact that there has been basically literally no pushback on hte Ori lynch outside Nictis just vaguely gesturing at a bunch of things while also saying "Oh Ori should be lynched" does not fill me with confidence about this.
You can say that this is what I would think scum would do, but I genuinely think that Shalmoa is scum,, that Comi is scum with him. I don't think I can lynch Shalmoa at this stag,e but if nothing else this is a protest vote.
[x] Vote Shalmoa
Finally shifting from Ori to Shalmoa here, I just think this whole thing was bad.
IDK I feel pretty good with my scum team read here. The second one not the YP + Usili one.
From Shalmoa's perspective as "attacked" night 1, SK Nani is the most reasonable idea.
4, Yes it shouldn't have been Mylo
6, why is it suddenly Mylo Lylo now? Can't it just be trying to avoid info link and limiting allies from defending each other.
7, I do keep calling you scum, just very softly most of this game.
Just another bit of proof that Usili is pure.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Actually... I have a mechanical thought, that makes me want to place a really weird vote.
Flavor wise it makes sense for scum to have multiple elements, since the Fatui have both natural and artificial visions i.e. delusions, and it makes sense for Paimon to be an Element Copier. I think the right vote mechanically is
[X] Vote Young Pyromancer
I might be wrong, but if there's something I'm Good at, it's Mechanics.
Fake Edit: It's a good thing that the no deleting posts rule only applies here, because I accidentally posted the above into the wrong thread entirely
Scum, having multiple elements is a way for scum to have more flexibility in design, however if only scum/3rd party have access to more than one element the game is simply too easy to solve. In such a world we have Zaealix's Anemo, Variable's Alignment Cop, Draxy's Geo, PM's (and maybe Hugh's) Neighborhoods to filter info through, and both you and Clown Bean's abilities (and in a world where Nictis is not scum, that element cop claim). Regardless this means elements would come to light as the game drew on.
When we design games we generally tend to try and balance both keeping some level of consistency with enough irregularities that we don't have a Witches' type clean solve again. Because while we all like mechanics, the main goal of these games is also the social, the games are often a mix of the two to the designer's preference and speculating on Rosen's particular preferences WOULD be against the rules.
However curve balls are common enough that we need to consider them, and having two scum being double elemented, and one town seems reasonable, because it punishes thoughts like these. With the Shalmoa/Ori situation we were able to follow up with the mechanical call-out be we also had social information with how Ori just denied anything at all, when in conjunction with disappearing and not mounting a defense until late enough maybe the false doctor claim gets a townie killed.
I will say that from a mechanical standpoint this wouldn't be balanced. We can conclude from Shalmoa that Nani was an SK, or at least some sort of killing role. In a game with an SK you have to plan for them probably killing at least one scum over the course of the game. And then suddenly Mafia is just doomed, by no real fault of their own suddenly they have to make it to final four. And regardless you are calling Nictis not town here, they have made no agreement with this analysis of 3rd party and I think imparting such a charitable thought onto them is giving Nictis much to great deference.