Mackie was a Maus: A BattleTech design quest

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Yeah...I forgot that Nondi isn't much better than Fred in certain respects, she is one of the people that helps burn the Commonwealth to the ground for cultural reasons.

Yeah the more i read this the more i say we need to get in contact with Hermann as the best option. Nondi and Fredrick are unstable/unreliable and Katrina/Rebecca are not currently available.
 
tomwritestuff said:
1. Not actually extraordinary, Nukashubans have different standards.
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I've been wondering about this one - I would expect the Nukashubans have some awareness of what their environment does to Nudezret visitors at least. Maybe also Nuhaian and Hefustian, if they were willing to brave the gravity. Are other Papolrisan residents also more tolerant of heavy metals than normal? Or does everybody else avoid spending enough time in Nukashuban hospitality to suffer effects?
Gmerguy said:
Yeah...I forgot that Nondi isn't much better than Fred in certain respects, she is one of the people that helps burn the Commonwealth to the ground for cultural reasons.

Yeah the more i read this the more i say we need to get in contact with Hermann as the best option. Nondi and Fredrick are unstable/unreliable and Katrina/Rebecca are not currently available.
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Herman might be the lever to go for if we want to stabilize things without trying to dictate the next Archon.
 
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Migration history diagram
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    • Aineko said:
    I've been wondering about this one - I would expect the Nukashubans have some awareness of what their environment does to Nudezret visitors at least. Maybe also Nuhaian and Hefustian, if they were willing to brave the gravity. Are other Papolrisan residents also more tolerant of heavy metals than normal? Or does everybody else avoid spending enough time in Nukashuban hospitality to suffer effects?
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    Nuhaians are mostly descended from the "heathen" crews, scientists, and survey experts marooned there. There has been some migration from Nukashuba and Nudezret since the fall of the Elders, which has resulted in some amount of genetic transfer, but the Nuhaian population is much more generally similar to the rest of the Inner Sphere (with the notable exception of lung capacity). Basically, from a natural genetic population history perspective, things look roughly like the below diagram, though there's a certain amount of unnatural genetic history involved as well.


    Nuhaians are generally (though not uniformly) resistant to heavy metal poisoning by Inner Sphere standards, but generally (though not uniformly) vulnerable to heavy metal poisoning by Nukashuban standards. Nudezretians and Hefustians would be very resistant to heavy metal poisoning by Inner Sphere standards, though not quite as much as Nukashubans.

    Nukashuba and Herald are the only anomalously dense planetary-scale bodies in the system. Nuhai, Nudezret, and Hefusts are not rich in heavy metals, nor is heavy metal contamination common there; resistance to heavy metal poisoning is due to migration through Nukashuba and a mixture of selection effects, genetic engineering, and genetic bottlenecking.
     
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    • Neat, that kinda makes taking our system completely and holding it hard for outsiders given all the heavy metal contamination. It also kinda explains why having Fission reactors and presumably their waste everywhere isn't super concerning for most people.
     
    [x] [Steiners] You have a message to send to Hermann. His daughter is alive and he needs to step up to the plate rather than continuing to abdicate his responsibilities as the most sensible Steiner alive.
     
    [X] [Steiners] Tell Jenever that she needs to send an emissary to Tharkad to establish diplomatic relations through the ... whoever it is that handles these sorts of things while the Archonship is in uncertain hands.
    [X] [Steiners] You have a message to send to Hermann. His daughter is alive and he needs to step up to the plate rather than continuing to abdicate his responsibilities as the most sensible Steiner alive.

    I'm fine with either of these.

    [X] [Scorpion] Tell Scorpion Company that Stone's Sword deserves their greatest loyalty.
    [X] [Scorpion] Send the littler Scorpion BattleMechs home, take the MechWarriors home with you.

    One the one claw they might be spies, on the other claw they are veteran/elite mechwarriors and could be used to help train up our own.

    [X] [Engine] Announce that you're replacing the engine with a new standard model, but it's better because it's Nukashuban-refined. (Costs RP per usual. Diplomacy check to avoid favor loss.)

    [X] [Engineering] As You Were:
    -[X] MAD-CAT: Re-roll gyro type until XL is achieved. Reserve 2 RP
    -[X] Sling: structure to endo-composite. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: if tonnage error, re-engineer to 120t. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: If tonnage is at 120t apply loadout from here. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Goldfish: swap position of ECM suite with one RT jumpjet, balancing the jump loading. Reserve 4 RP
     
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    Hellteddy said:
    One the one claw they might be spies, on the other claw they are veteran/elite mechwarriors and could be used to help train up our own.
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    I don't think they're spies.

    On the other hand dragging IS troops to Nukashuba doesn't seem like a nice thing to do to them. See the aforementioned heavy metals, and the danger of ever letting them leave Papolris.
    Hellteddy said:
    [X] [Engine] Announce that you're replacing the engine with a new light model. (Costs RP per usual.)
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    Why would we give the USNN our absolute most advanced engine technology, which it's quite possible nobody else in the galaxy is building right now?
     
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    [] [Steiners] (write-in): Attempt to get in contact with Katrina assigned leader/contact on the Lexington. There is no way that she just let a jump ship go with someone she didn't trust or wasn't invested in her faction. If that fails then try and quietly get in contact with Herman Steiner.
    [] [Scorpion] (write-in): Ask the Scorpions if they are up for one last ride.
    [] [Engine] Admit to the USNN that the blew the engine out and request a replacement. (Costs 1 favor.)
    [] [Engineering] (write-in): Continue trying to get the XL gyro for the Mad-Cat.
     
    [X] [Steiners] You have a message to send to Hermann. His daughter is alive and he needs to step up to the plate rather than continuing to abdicate his responsibilities as the most sensible Steiner alive.
    [X] [Steiners] (write-in): Attempt to get in contact with Katrina assigned leader/contact on the Lexington. There is no way that she just let a jump ship go with someone she didn't trust or wasn't invested in her faction. If that fails then try and quietly get in contact with Herman Steiner.

    [X] [Engine] Admit to the USNN that the blew the engine out and request a replacement. (Costs 1 favor.)
    [X] [Engine] Announce that you're replacing the engine with a new standard model, but it's better because it's Nukashuban-refined. (Costs RP per usual. Diplomacy check to avoid favor loss.)

    [X] [Engineering] As You Were:
    -[X] MAD-CAT: Re-roll gyro type until XL is achieved. Reserve 2 RP
    -[X] Sling: structure to endo-composite. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: if tonnage error, re-engineer to 120t. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: If tonnage is at 120t apply loadout from here. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Goldfish: swap position of ECM suite with one RT jumpjet, balancing the jump loading. Reserve 4 RP


    (As You Were is just picking up the previous plan were it left off. With a probably-unnecessary safeguard line about balancing the Goldfish trimmed off the end. EDIT: Useful math note - we're 6 times more likely for that to end with an XL gyro than for it to be interrupted by another unplanned disassembly.)
    Gmerguy said:
    [] [Scorpion] (write-in): Ask the Scorpions if they are up for one last ride.
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    This could really use some clarification, I think?
     
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    Aineko said:
    Why would we give the USNN our absolute most advanced engine technology, which it's quite possible nobody else in the galaxy is building right now?
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    Well, the reasons to do it are that it could help advance your light fusion tech and it could make the USNN military stronger or weaker.

    The big reason not to do it, similarly, is that it could make the USNN military stronger or weaker.
     
    [X] [Steiners] (write-in): Attempt to get in contact with Katrina assigned leader/contact on the Lexington. There is no way that she just let a jump ship go with someone she didn't trust or wasn't invested in her faction. If that fails then try and quietly get in contact with Herman Steiner.
    [X] [Scorpion] (write-in): Once more into the breach: You don't know what lies forward given the clusterfuck the Commonwealth looks like its becoming, but they are welcome to join you if they wish.
    [X] [Engine] Admit to the USNN that the blew the engine out and request a replacement. (Costs 1 favor.)
    [X] [Engine] Announce that you're replacing the engine with a new standard model, but it's better because it's Nukashuban-refined. (Costs RP per usual. Diplomacy check to avoid favor loss.)

    [X] [Engineering] As You Were:
    -[X] MAD-CAT: Re-roll gyro type until XL is achieved. Reserve 2 RP
    -[X] Sling: structure to endo-composite. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: if tonnage error, re-engineer to 120t. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: If tonnage is at 120t apply loadout from here. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Goldfish: swap position of ECM suite with one RT jumpjet, balancing the jump loading. Reserve 4 RP


    Aineko said:
    . EDIT: Useful math note - we're 6 times more likely for that to end with an XL gyro than for it to be interrupted by another unplanned disassembly.)
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    The problem with Russian Roulette, it might be 1:6 odds of getting the bullet but that still means you can very much shoot yourself. Just because reality isn't likely to screw you over doesn't mean it won't.
     
    Gmerguy said:
    The problem with Russian Roulette, it might be 1:6 odds of getting the bullet but that still means you can very much shoot yourself. Just because reality isn't likely to screw you over doesn't mean it won't.
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    You're not wrong, but we play dice games anyway. (Though I'll note that in this case the odds are 1 to 6, not 1 in 6. 1/7th oops, 6/7ths XL. given it gets to an end state, that is.)
     
    It occurs to me that doing MAD-CAT before Sling is probably a mistake.

    We should be able to finish both this year. (EV for the plan is 9-10, we have 17, though finalization always makes me nervious.) But Sling is easy to finish, MAD-CAT is riskier. In terms of favor, delaying either costs us the same amount of favor. The USNN guy will be very mad if Mad-Cat gets delayed, but he's already pretty mad.

    Anybody think I shouldn't flip to work Sling first so it's done before we start feeding points to the gyro again?
     
    Aineko said:
    Anybody think I shouldn't flip to work Sling first so it's done before we start feeding points to the gyro again?
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    I'll toss a vote to your engineering plan if you wanna move up the easier things. I.E. Goldfish modification and Sling.

    I'd prefer to get SOMETHING on our own mechs advanced before we continue feeding RP into the research and development pit of the MADCAT.
    Or even the Light Scorpion. Us not working on that also means that the Battle Armor of Nukashuba isn't really being purchased and experimented with, for lack of a deployment system.

    (I know, I know, it's probably better to hammer out Many Mice. Just annoyed about how we opted to take on this Madcat which we already knew was pretty much going to be an RP sink going into this.)
     
    Sacredefiler said:
    I'll toss a vote to your engineering plan if you wanna move up the easier things. I.E. Goldfish modification and Sling.
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    I wouldn't move up the Goldfish modification. I want that done, but I don't want to let it endanger our commitments.
    Sacredefiler said:
    I'd prefer to get SOMETHING on our own mechs advanced before we continue feeding RP into the research and development pit of the MADCAT.
    Or even the Light Scorpion. Us not working on that also means that the Battle Armor of Nukashuba isn't really being purchased and experimented with, for lack of a deployment system.

    (I know, I know, it's probably better to hammer out Many Mice. Just annoyed about how we opted to take on this Madcat which we already knew was pretty much going to be an RP sink going into this.)
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    Mad-Cat isn't actually that bad. Yeah, the XL gyro is a kinda expensive investment, but it's one we can freely re-use on our own designs and probably will.

    But almost all MICE are RP sinks. Sling has a chance of actually coming out ahead on RP, but if it does I think it might be the only one that does.
     
    I did suggest before moving the Sling ahead of the Madcat on the Queue of Tasks in the Vote, so I will happily vote for a revision of the current Vote that features the Madcat first.



    [X] [Engineering] Priorities:
    -[X] Sling: structure to endo-composite. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: if tonnage error, re-engineer to 120t. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: If tonnage is at 120t apply loadout from here. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Goldfish: swap position of ECM suite with one RT jumpjet, balancing the jump loading. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] MAD-CAT: Re-roll gyro type until XL is achieved.

    [X] [Steiners] (write-in): Attempt to get in contact with Katrina assigned leader/contact on the Lexington. There is no way that she just let a jump ship go with someone she didn't trust or wasn't invested in her faction. If that fails then try and quietly get in contact with Rebecca and or Herman Steiner, her Father.
    [X] [Scorpion] (write-in): Once more into the breach: You don't know what lies forward given the clusterfuck the Commonwealth looks like its becoming, but they are welcome to join you in trying to get hold of Rebecca and trying to meet up, visit her Dad together etc, the Scorpions may join us if they wish and maybe we can all gain a lucrative Job Contract?
    -[X] If Mary got any of those Books etc she was after, then make copies with Jenever's help, then entrust the copies to Jenever to send back home to Papolris, some copies to our Niece and to General Murphy, nudge him to give Mary credit on the Data.
    [X] [Engine] Announce that you're replacing the engine with a new standard model, but it's better because it's Nukashuban-refined. (Costs RP per usual. Diplomacy check to avoid favor loss.)

    I would rather spend RP than Favour.

    On another note, any thoughts about potentially whipping up Dumb VI or AI for some Papolrisian version of the CASPAR?

    They would be able to move at higher speeds and tolerate sudden G's better than Humans.

    In addition, Crew Spaces can be repurposed for more Armour/Weapons etc.

    If nothing else though, it might be worth referring to Jenever's experience working with the Low Gravity Polity and suggesting Liquid Filled Cockpits for ASF Pilots and Mech Pilots to aid in alleviating G's for Nukashuban Personnel.

    More useful for ASF Pilots than Mech Pilots most of the time, but Orbital Dropped Mechs would benefit from the addition.

    Also Liquid filled Cockpits might reduce harm to Mech Pilots when the Mech takes damage, due to kinetic disoersion and partial absorption of movement.
     
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    [X] [Engineering] Priorities:
    -[X] Sling: structure to endo-composite. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: if tonnage error, re-engineer to 120t. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: If tonnage is at 120t apply loadout from here. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Goldfish: swap position of ECM suite with one RT jumpjet, balancing the jump loading. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] MAD-CAT: Re-roll gyro type until XL is achieved.

    AI/VI sounds like a rabbit hole that could eat a hell of a lot more research than even Gauss rifles. We'd be starting from almost zero on it, I think, we don't even have stuff like targeting computers or C3. And remembering, we're the Mech production and design team, not the Fleet Tactical computer dudes. I don't want to spend the next 10 turns trying to spend research on something for fleet, instead of something like better missiles/armor/interesting design options.
     
    Sacredefiler said:
    [X] [Engineering] Priorities:
    -[X] Sling: structure to endo-composite. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: if tonnage error, re-engineer to 120t. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Sling: If tonnage is at 120t apply loadout from here. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] Goldfish: swap position of ECM suite with one RT jumpjet, balancing the jump loading. Reserve 4 RP
    -[X] MAD-CAT: Re-roll gyro type until XL is achieved.

    AI/VI sounds like a rabbit hole that could eat a hell of a lot more research than even Gauss rifles. We'd be starting from almost zero on it, I think, we don't even have stuff like targeting computers or C3. And remembering, we're the Mech production and design team, not the Fleet Tactical computer dudes. I don't want to spend the next 10 turns trying to spend research on something for fleet, instead of something like better missiles/armor/interesting design options.
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    Ah! Sorry if I was not clear.

    My thinking was not the Mech Team going all in on VI/AI, but General Murphy using Favour politically to get Fleet doing so.

    It would be one way for us to try and prep Papolris for more incursions, playing to our strengths re Assault Dropships(Warships) and trying to boost that further for any "Hypothetical" Capital Warships turning up.

    With General Murphy being very good at dodgey dealings, he can claim it is a noble impassioned desire to protect Papolris, while in reality he is using the excuse to make Fleet pay the cost of money and skilled personnel to develop VI/AI on Warships & ASF for him, with the Mech Team then just refining it to be adapted to Mechs.

    Also could use a push for this on favour to swipe the new Bunny Bug Project, using the excuse of Fleet needing to prioritise on the System as a whole etc Lol

    He is a slime and I love it, because he is OUR slime! ^_^

    All that said though, our demands for a Combat Computer and Battle Compuuter earlier in Quest, did actually push Papolrisian Computer Tech forwards, so we may just be in a position to contribute to VI/AI to a degree anyway.

    Only way I think we could help with the incoming Blakist Warship is to perhaps redevelop Lighter, Bulkier Armour like Alu-Fib, Ferro-Fib, Light Ferro-Fib, Heavy Ferro-Fib etc.

    Give our Void Navy better Armour to try and soak damage.

    Finally....

    I guess we could use Favour to force some joint Projects between Mech R&D and Fleet?

    Full Head Ejection

    LAM's

    Non Transforming LAM's

    Bunny Bug

    PA/BA with integrated Neurohelm

    VI/AI

    Liquid Filled/Gel Filled Cockpits
     
    DAMN IT!

    I am slow!

    Just realised.... Mary when asking about Books, was asking not just about Mechs, but also about the first Warships of the Terran Alliance and previous to the Fall of the Star League!

    Should I add that to the Vote with a focus on getting any books on Warships back to General Murphy and Nukashuba?

    @tomwritestuff
    Can you clarify what books if any, that Mary got a hold of to bring back?

    Any info is good.

    Even if we only got a book on Taurian Warships during the Star League/Taurian Concordat War.
     
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