From Stone to the Stars

[Cawasnow]

Long life and Leadership are going to be a major aspect in how the People will view Kasper in the future. There is going to be many exaggerated stories about him when trying to explain his tale.

Something like him gaining immortality by defeating a spirit in some over-complicated battle of wits and warfare. Yet even though he gained immortality, it was of the Spirit and not of the body. So even though he aged until he was a pile of bones, his Spirit lived on.
So now he watches over the the People with his Amber eyes and Blacksword.

Something like that.

 

[Nevill]

[x] [Cave] It's cursed land, wounded in a great battle between spirits.
[x] [River] Put off the settlement for a generation. (-1 Legitimacy)
[x] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)

 

[Rafin]

First of all, thank you for answering all of my questions so quickly. And so in depth as well. It's really awesome how knowledgeable you are about your own world. I already have some follow-up.

Single moms aren't too common; due to your decision last turn, it's actually more common to have single fathers.

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Don't people still die early all the time? We have wars, insane cold, lack of medicine, apparently rampant murder. I'd expect people to lose their spouses pretty frequently. Or is it just that women tend to get married very fast after losing their husbands? How do new husbands deal with their predecessor's children?

Polygamists tend to mostly be warriors

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I thought that warriors get assigned a surplus of food by the council and produce little of material value by themselves (other than war loot I guess). Aeva even said how happy she is about their heavy dependency. If they eat for three and don't produce for one, where do they get the ability to feed multiple wives from?

to someone who has a physical deformity or mental illness.

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What role do these kinds of ad-hoc shamans fill? Especially the unlucky and mentally ill seem to have heavy competition when it comes to spiritual guidance. Or is being a Shaman actually not all that high status and in those cases more of a way to recognize someone as adult who can't pass any other trial? It would surprise me a bit given the Trial of Adulthood prejudice modifier, but I guess it just isn't that extreme yet.

They're known to be exceptional teachers in tracking, woodcraft and related skills.

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You once mentioned that outright teaching of children is not much of a thing yet and that it's more that the kids just watch the adults. Are holy orders kind of a major exception in that regard? I guess they would kind of have to be, what with all their secret magic and such.

and fired brick.

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Does that mean that all our bricks come from the Ember-eyes? How does that work, logistically? Especially when building walls and houses anywhere but in the Fingers? Do all the holy orders have representatives everywhere, and their "base" is just their most important shrine and meeting place?

How numerous is the membership among the holy orders? Given that we have a population of a couple of thousands, it could well be that a statistically significant fraction is a member of some holy order or other.

That population question applies to a few other things as well. You have mentioned exceptional cases, like Frost-Scarred women or high status infertile prostitutes. Am I right in my assumption that such edge cases are so rare as to be counted on one to two hands?
How large of a fraction of our population is comprised of Debtors? How large of PoWs? How large of fully adopted first generation immigrants? And are the families of the Hundred Band immigrants from Kaspar's earlier reign distinct enough to count as a significant minority to keep an eye on?

Adults who are not recognized as such can become Debtors normally.

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Would it be acurate to say that the Trial of Adulthood is more of a trial of right to vote? From what you've said in various explanatory posts after a certain age most of everyone is treated basically like an adult, with the same risks and obligations and it's just that they aren't allowed to speak like one during political gatherings. I thought the Trials were more important than that, with those who fail to pass them literally being seen as lesser and socially condescended upon to some extend.

Actual domestication is based on 1) the passage of time and 2) periodic hunting actions.

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The hardest part with domestication is training the small initial population to trust humans.

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How are the current tamed but otherwise wild orkers even kept? Even if the adult rhino-sized boar loves his handler to bits, they aren't herd or pack animals. They don't play soft among each other, how is it safe to be anywhere near them? Are they kept in giant brick pens or pits or something?

This obviously causes problems with nepotism,

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Not really a question, but at this point in time nepotism is so expected, it shouldn't even be considered a drawback. Can't imagine any position of social standing that isn't affected heavily by it. The mentally handicapped guy from the lowly immigrant family is pushed to try and become an adult till he finally gets lost in the woods, while the son of a Slate member with the same issues is a spirit-touched shaman.



Wow. That was again more than I expected to write. My tablet is almost out of battery. Gonna quickly look what I'm gonna vote now.

Edit: Done.

[X] [War] Finish South Lake forevermore. (Raid: South Lake)

That's the only one I disagree with the majority on. If we decide to not settle this generation we have little reason to have mercy on the South Lake remnants. It's not in character for our People and it risks the resurgence of a tribe with an eternal hate-boner for us. I'd rather have that prestige, thank you very much.

 

[Pyro Hawk]

[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Put off the settlement for a generation. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)

@Redium Would one of the options for how we remember Kasper be something like 'Spirit's Cursed Blessing', where they gave Kaspar a blessing of long life, but because they weren't an animal spirit, they didn't understand that Mortals grew weaker with age after a certain point unlike spirits, and thus in time it became more of a curse than a blessing.

Basically pushing a 'Spirits are Otherworldly' message, where the curses of a spirit might be blessings in disguise, or the blessings curses in disguise, so always be careful when dealing with spirits and work out just what they mean when doing something to you.

 

[sunrise]

[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)

 

[veekie]

I thought that warriors get assigned a surplus of food by the council and produce little of material value by themselves (other than war loot I guess). Aeva even said how happy she is about their heavy dependency. If they eat for three and don't produce for one, where do they get the ability to feed multiple wives from?

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Keeping in mind warriors and shamans are 'paid' a surplus of food appropriate to their contribution to society, This is often high enough to support several spouses, after all you don't want your warriors and shamans to desert your village for another because they could be given more stuff there

What role do these kinds of ad-hoc shamans fill? Especially the unlucky and mentally ill seem to have heavy competition when it comes to spiritual guidance. Or is being a Shaman actually not all that high status and in those cases more of a way to recognize someone as adult who can't pass any other trial? It would surprise me a bit given the Trial of Adulthood prejudice modifier, but I guess it just isn't that extreme yet.

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Its just the usual, the spiritually aware are consulted for spiritual guidance. Its the people who don't fit in, who hear spirits, etc...theres no real way for people to distinguish genius and madness yet.

But clearly the spirits had done something to these people, so they are better candidates than those the spirits had ignored. Maybe the spirits can hear them.

How are the current tamed but otherwise wild orkers even kept? Even if the adult rhino-sized boar loves his handler to bits, they aren't herd or pack animals. They don't play soft among each other, how is it safe to be anywhere near them? Are they kept in giant brick pens or pits or something?

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Keeping in mind IRL pig pens are basically just wooden fences. And that IRL pigs are seriously, not much smaller than they were. They're strong enough to break the fences when adult with sheer bodymass.

Commonly for keeping such animals you have three factors:
-Conditioning. When they were young, you show them that escape is impossible and/or painful. The Orklet learns that they can't break the fence, or jump the fence. So when they are full grown they remember and don't try.

-Shelter. One of the bigger hallmarks of domesticated animals is that they grow up in a human residence. It's nice and warm at night. It doesn't get wet except when they want to. This is a big reason why when you turn your pigs loose in the woods to forage they come back anyway. They marked it as their den and hell, it's warm and they got bedding to sleep on. Theres no predator beasts except the ones protecting them.

-Food and water. Sure they forage for the majority of their feed. But they know theres always water here, theres always some food, and they get better quality scraps when people dump the offal from a hunt.

Good reasons to keep coming back.

[X] [War] Finish South Lake forevermore. (Raid: South Lake)

That's the only one I disagree with the majority on. If we decide to not settle this generation we have little reason to have mercy on the South Lake remnants. It's not in character for our People and it risks the resurgence of a tribe with an eternal hate-boner for us. I'd rather have that prestige, thank you very much.

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Theres no resurgence here. The Bond Breakers have a massive hate boner for THEM. And they hate literally all their bordering neighbors.

Its basically just trading off the prestige for the food stress.

 

[Japanime]

Pork is the big thing. Orkers are massive, they can weigh more than a thousand kilograms. Modern bulls are noticeably smaller than orkers. They're also going to be extremely effective beasts of burden once you figure out how to harness them (and not get gutted by one of their tusks).

Actual domestication is based on 1) the passage of time and 2) periodic hunting actions.

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Have we figured out enough when it comes to domestication that we could breed them and determine select traits like we did with the dogs? I'm kind of curious if we already have distinct dog breeds already, with some used for hunting and others for more domestic purposes. Because if we did I was kind of hoping we could use that knowledge for the Orkers in order to make some breeds for domestic use as livestock, while other breeds could be used to make powerful cavalry.

Will the DC for hunting for Orkers go down now?

Semi-nomadic is better than settled at your current level so it's a bit of a downgrade. What being fully settled gets you is that it uncaps your organization tier. Right now you're locked to settlements. Now that you're settled, you can progress to provinces and other larger agglomerations.

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Damn, well, I'm glad that we at least managed to find one more natural wonder in those caves before we've switched to fully settled. Is everyone else settled like us right now?

When you mean organization tier though, how do those tie into centralization and hierarchy?

Honestly, you were literally lucky enough to find new piglets. The hardest part with domestication is training the small initial population to trust humans. Once you have that, you can allow them to interbreed with the wild population to increase your numbers over time. There's actually an enormous amount of gene flow in tamed and wild populations.

The other way to domesticate, is to do it slowly over time by feeding the animals. Eventually they learn that humans mean food. This means that animals who acknowledge that tend to survive, then then take on more and more pro-human genes over time until they allow their feeding and reproduction to be fully controlled by humans.

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What lucky bastard found those piglets anyway and what's the story there?

I'm assuming we're going with the first method of domestication as we already have the piglets then?

I don't really think the second method would work well for us considering how often the Orkers are compared to apex predators. Their nasty temperament makes any effort to domesticate them through that route likely futile.

On the bright side we might have bacon soon.

Utterly trashing South Lake in combat.

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I was surprised about that too, to be honest. How are battles in this era like anyway, especially at the levels you've depicted and with the advancements made? Still ambush vs counter-ambush?

The Island Makers have more food than you, but they are suffering from the weather more.

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Gotcha, that makes sense. Is it because they are more agriculturally based, or aquaculture in this case, and have built up more stores? Or is it for some other reason.

Also, how are our efforts with Arrow Lake going and how are they faring with this weather?

A big bundle of prestige. Destroying a faction completely gives a fraction of all the prestige they have.

The benefit of allowing South Lake to continue to exist is that they're now a thorn in the south's side, distracting them from you.

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Hmmm...this is pretty tempting considering how hard it is to gain prestige as not only will it give us higher standing among the rest of the civs in our region, it will likely also give us more access to their techs.

This is going to be changed with a future decision point. Training is currently ad hoc so you'll get some choices in the future. You could make it so that all warriors need to be a member of a Holy Order, warriors are designated by the Big Man, their Slate, or on a longhouse basis.

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Are there problems at the moment that would prompt this decision point, or is it more like there is a reform that will be needed?

Personally speaking I'd rather go for either the longhouse option or the Holy Order option.

Right now, the Holy Orders have first pick of candidates. The Ember-Eyes usually pick first since they start youngest, about 6-10 years old. The Fangs start recruitment from 10-14. The Frost-Scarred picks recruits from 14-16. Each Holy Order trains based on their particular mysteries; i.e. pyromania, woodcraft and working with dogs, and endurance/cold weather acclimatization. Holy Orders are basically meritocratic.

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When it comes to being a member of a Holy Order, do they have an internal organized hierarchy, and do some of those who join a hierarchy have to renounce their old kin?

If an individual is not picked up by a Holy Order, they tend to start training to be a warrior at age 16. There's not really a system for that, though. Generally warriors train whomever catches their eye, treating them like an apprentice. This obviously causes problems with nepotism, but there's also important elements of politics involved as well. Being the trainer of a promising young warrior is a large prestige boost. If anyone is good at war, they'll be picked up for training by someone. There's often not enough of 'the best' to completely fill the demand for warriors, so the rest are 'good enough' recruits and tend to be family members of individuals with important family connections.

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That sounds like reasonable enough criteria. I assume that the Big Man and the council likely have a role in determining what is the right amount of warriors to have right? Due to the limited amount of food, they have to be able to control how high of a quote there is right?

All warriors are expected to be proficient in unarmed combat, archery, spears, knives, and the blacksword. The bow is the number one weapon of a warrior. For melee, the blacksword and the spear are generally the weapon of choice for a warrior. Blackswords are obviously more popular, but also more difficult to make. They're mostly the domain of more experience or more senior warriors. Young ones tend to get spears.

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Do these use shields and armor?

Also, how common are Blackswords among the other tribes? Considering we have a monopoly on obsidian I doubt they have much more than us.

Do others have similar weapons to the blackswords, and how many warriors do we have comparatively?

Nooooooooo...... /s

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I'll take that as a yes, and wait eagerly for the next surprise.

Wealth. Food wise you're behind most people; the difference is your food source tends to be more reliable than everyone except the Island Makers.

I'll think about ranking civilizations in the future. A leader board would be pretty useful.

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I assume you mean the water grass? Could trade with the Island Makers help us get more diverse food sources,?

Yeah, a ranking chart would be nice eventually, though considering how often we change the map for you, I think it will probably be a long while before we can make an accurate one.

 

[Rafin]

Its just the usual, the spiritually aware are consulted for spiritual guidance. Its the people who don't fit in, who hear spirits, etc...theres no real way for people to distinguish genius and madness yet.

But clearly the spirits had done something to these people, so they are better candidates than those the spirits had ignored. Maybe the spirits can hear them.

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That may well be, but we also have this:

Adult Trials
Effects: Increase competence; empower women; prejudice against disability; ???

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And I assume when someone has the choice between consulting the wise Fang medicine man, the high status Ember-eye pyromancer or the orderless and unintelligible spirit-whisperer, then the third choice will be a rare one.

 

[veekie]

I don't really think the second method would work well for us considering how often the Orkers are compared to apex predators. Their nasty temperament makes any effort to domesticate them through that route likely futile.

On the bright side we might have bacon soon.

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Oh no. The same worked for RL pigs. Wild boars are massive. They aren't really apex predator material so much as a prey animal which had devised its entire competitive strategy around "if you kill me I will maim you before I die". All the way down to the iron age, people still died hunting boars, because of mass and momentum and because when they get angry they smash everything around them.

But they had domesticated pigs too. They were easier to domesticate with food and shelter than by force.

Gotcha, that makes sense. Is it because they are more agriculturally based, or aquaculture in this case, and have built up more stores? Or is it for some other reason.

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Probably because they figured out irrigation if they know how to dig canals. That's a massive productivity boost for agriculture.

When it comes to being a member of a Holy Order, do they have an internal organized hierarchy, and do some of those who join a hierarchy have to renounce their old kin?

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I suspect most of our population will refer you to a shaman for treatment at the idea of renouncing kin.
Thats a thing that came about after feudalism, mostly to prevent the holy orders and priesthoods from accumulating too much political power via inheritance.

 

[RomanceNinja]

[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Put off the settlement for a generation. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [War] Finish South Lake forevermore. (Raid: South Lake)

Kasper The Guide, a man of unrelenting will, he shall forever lead others onto their chosen paths.

 

[Marlin]

Time, Kaspar should be a spirit of time.

Spoiler: The legend of Kaspar

The legend of Kaspar

In the times gone past, our people lived with spirits, wearing forms more different than the ones we now have. Two great gatherings, where spirit met the heart of man, were the spirits early gifts to us for our victories against the traitor-men, whom enslaved the spirits of war, the spirits of people yet to live, and the spirits of happiness. The first gathering was a place of white clear water with strong white buildings by the shore, this was the place of the fire spirits and their bodies of stone. Greatest maker of the fire-spirit-men is Sun-Stag the spirit's shaman of summer and life.

The second gathering were the home of the wolf spirit brothers. Our people among them took two forms one that walked on two legs with the face of man, or woman, and a second that took the form of a wolf spirit.

Long ago among the wolf spirits, war had come to our people. The traitor-men had bound the spirits of war, people-yet-to-live, and spirits of hapiness to their will.

"We must fight," spoke Old Grey, the wisest of the wolf brothers. Old Grey had been to the great divide to the south where the war was greatest, the hunt constant, and the cries of the dying the loudest.

Pack Leader, the dying chief of our people after Sister went away long ago, had a different voice, "No, you have a Debt. We all have Debt. Recall all our pack. No longer will we fight to reach the lost spirits. Our Debt is too large to continue fighting with all our pack."

Old Grey growled at pack leader. Before she could issue a challenge. Pack Leader barked, "From now on only five of our best may fight the traitor-men."

Old Grey turned to her wolf form, lunging at Pack Leader in rage. For the chief's word is law, none may go against it. Pack leader faded away from our land that day.

"Who will the spirits choose as chief now. I am the strongest, the wisest among us. I fought to free our spirit friends. Oh spirits am I not the chief now?" Old Grey thought we would follow them.

The great pack of spirits would choose our chief, not just the spirits of those who lived among us. There had ben other spirits that fought against the traitor-men. With the spirits of war chained to the traitor-men's will we lost many of our fastest hunters, greatest cooks, and tricksters. The spirits of fire to the north, gave the spirits of the Sister wolf, a wolf of fire. Different from the wolf pack of Sister, this wolf studied the secrets of fire, until their wolf form took on fire as a coat of red that burned. This wolf, named Kazgar, had Debt. A Debt of the soul the spirits of fire placed to better war against the traitor-men and free their fellow spirits. Kazgar was chosen by the gret pack of spirits to lead all spirits and men.

Kazgar built the second gathering, home of the wolves, into a spirit of defiance that would strike at those who came near. Kazgar also used his fur coat of fire to teach our ancestors to speak through fire to anyone over any distance.

Kazgar had ignored the traitor-men. The traitor-men had not forgotten where they stole the mighty spirits broken to their will. The traitor-men walked to our lands with three armies. The five best warriors, not our chief though, were sent to challenge the traitor-men, ran from the armies in shame. Our best feared the strength of the traitor-men, but our best did not completely abandon Kazgar. One-Fur, one of the five wariors, told Kazgar through a message in fire the traitor-men would attack, and our best five warriors would run away.

Kazgar laughed at One-Fur, "Come home, we are safe, the traitor-men cannot reach us behind our home."

"Hmph, and She-The-Snow is your wife," One-Fur scoffed. One-Fur had been away from the second gathering too long. Once, he and Kazgar shared their hunts with each other. Now, Kazgar had turned on One-Fur. Enforcing the law of the past chief that the people owed a debt so great they must pay it before they fight against the traitor-men. Some had paid it, some ran, others had yet to pay.

"Where can you run, if the traitor-men do kill us? They will hunt you as well. We are spirits of great power. I have many gifts from the spirits of fire, but yours is a great voice when a mind that cuts is needed to lead where I am not." Kazgar the chief of the wolf spirits, had a mind, tounge, and skill that covered everything. Martial prowess that could kill a great orker, wisdom beyond the eyes of mortals, a skill at singing that amazed the four mighty spirit shamans of the seasons. Yet, Kazgar was weaker alone than with all the spirits of our land at his side. The greatest spirits of our land, the four shamans, powerful leaders of the spirits who supported Kazgar in many things throughout his life.

One-Fur, a war-spirit that never touched the grasp of the traitor-men, for he was training to take the place of the spirit's shaman of the autumn and death when the traitor-men came for his people. She-the-Snow, a bone-spirit, shaman of winter and memory. The Sun-Stag, fire-spirit shaman of summer and life. Empty-plains, a air-spirit shaman of spring and mystery.

One-Fur sighed, his friend might be too proud of the second gathering changes, too sure they will stand. There were shamans of strong wills among the traitor-men. If Kazgar and the people fell to the will of his enemy, One-Fur would be alone. Better to be chained with Kazgar and the rest than alone forever.

"I will return my chief." One-Fur replied.

===

The traitor men surrounded the second gathering, a few days after One-Fur returned to second gathering.

Three leaders of the traitor-men led the traitor-men armies. Kruk the white, Zunk the reborn, and Grasshopper the shadow.

"What are they doing?" asked a white skinned man with black marks in the shape of bears, badgers, mighty storms, and screaming eyes. The fortress of their enemy, the spirit-born stood before him. With the spirit-born bound to his will becoming the great chief of all creatures would be easy.

"The will-broken? Poisoning the enemy supply...." spoke Grasshopper the shadow, skilled in the traitor-men's means of binding spirits. Grasshopper had used his magic to break the wills of those inside the fortress. "Urghhhhagh!" Grasshopper yelled out in pain, as his connection with the spirits whose wills he broke to his will died.

"The easy way is gone," Zunk said. Grasshopper whimpered in pain, Kruk gazed at the fool, he was forced to call leader.

"At dawn?"

"At night, we break in, bind their wills and spirits. Leave none behind." Grasshoper commanded.

"You can't try to bind their wills again from here?" Even a fool can be of use to the skilled, were words Kruk lived by.

Grasshoper did not immediately reply to Zunk's question.

"A spirit is blocking me." Zunk and Kruk, looked at Grasshopper. Grasshopper broke the wills of powerful war spirits, tribes of men followed Grasshopper. None had defied the will of Grasshopper, fought and struggled, but none defied.

"Do you know where the spirit is?" Kruk eventually asked.

"Everywhere, nowhere, I would have to spend time to find it. Time that grows short the longer we stay in this land. Rest, but stay alert for our attack."

===

Kazgar would win the fight against the traitor-men. She-the-Snow, Kazgar's first wife, the other shamans, and the spirit of defience. Used magic to wait out the traitor-men, who unlike spirits needed food from their own land to eat and stay in our land. The traitor-men dropped dead until none remained. Kazgar went south with the shamans to free their chained spirit brothers. South, to the lands of more traitor-men.

In the South, Kazgar and the shamans found the homes of traitor-men long abandoned, or being robbed by other traitor-men and true-men, men who fought against the traitor-men that wanted the world to bow to the traitor-men. Kazgar disguised his group as true-men, throughout the lands of the men they wandered seeking the prison of their lost spirit people. Kazgara saw buildings that reached the stars, great cities, wise-men who could trap the power of animals inside a corpse. Along the way they aided the true-men in a war against the traitor-men.

Kazgar could not find their lost spirit people. Sun-Stag suggested that maybe the spirits were called away, or already returned. She-the-Snow suggested they return to their lands, the lost spirit people could not be found, and their people need leaders. One-Fur and Empty-Plains were against returning, but they could not deny looking anymore would not mean they will find their lost people. Kazgar refused to give up, but She-the-Snow was right his people needed their leaders.

Kazgar returned to our people without our lost people. The years passed Sun-Stag, She-the-Snow, One-Fur, and Empty-Plains moved the seasons in response to Kazgar's Debt. He failed to find our people, Sun-Stag had placed too much of the favor of the fire-spirits in his creation, Kazgar gave One-fur life as long as Sun-Stag. Kazgar's Debt was tall, clever Kazgar created new ways to gather food, make food, travel across the snow, teach man to walk with the spirits instead of cage us again. We said Kazgar had paid his debt.

We thought Kazgar would never fade.

Sister-Wolf returned to us.

"Why are you still here?" Sister-Wolf asked the withered husk like corn red wolf, who was once Kazgar the Blacksword, pride of the fire-spirits, Sun-Stag's greatest gift, and now leader of the fire-spirits. Bound to the stone of the first gathering by order of Sun-Stag whom Kazgar tricked into granting One-Fur, Empty-Plains, and She-the-Snow long life.

Kazgar could not move, the weight of his home too heavy on his body, to reply. Kazgar had failed his people, and Sister-Wolf came to collect the Debt. Sister-Wolf white as snow, with eyes of green and lightning, took a form of a man Kazgar had heard of once long ago.

Kazgar struggled to move, the form before his eyes matched what he had been told. He remembered why the debt existed it was not his debt, but the debt of the one who came before him. His eyes told him the two might be one. Kazgar's nose, old, barely useable, smelled the scent of Sister-Wolf on the form. "Old Grey," Kazgar whispered.

"Why are you still here?" Sister-Wolf/Old Grey asked, twirling a wolf necklace around his right hand.

"I have a Debt to pay." Kazgar growled.

Sister-Wolf smiled, was she going to mock Kazgar?

"Forever? All Debt can't be paid or no one would die. Nothing would grow. We all would be slaves to ourselves who should obey the traitor-men."

"I have a Debt to pay?" Kazgar asked to himself, or Sister-Wolf I don't know. Sister-Wolf didn't say.

Kazgar faded the day Sister-Wolf returned. Sister-Wolf told us this story, ending with the words. "I release you of your Debt Kazgar, you may now fade away into memory and song for all time." Then he faded away from us, again.

The End.

Note: Ahhh! I wanted to make this focused on a kind of four leaders with the power of the seasons religious pantheon. Have Kaspar added as a time god that stands at the side of the other four leaders. Yet, I got this when I tried to paraphrase Kaspar's life as a myth.

 

[Kelenas]

Winter resistance. There's not so much magic about them beyond extreme physical conditioning. The fact that it's not uncommon for members of the Holy Order have body parts rot off during training (due to frostbite), they're considered to be partly spirit. The loss of limb is considered to be a spiritual toll.

6. Non-Holy Order shaman tend to be 'spiritually touched'. They could mean anything from someone who is extremely (un)lucky, to someone who has a physical deformity or mental illness.

7. The Fangs are seen more as guardians and protectors than ritualists. They're known to be exceptional teachers in tracking, woodcraft and related skills. They're also, paradoxically, the best medicine men. They tend to spend a lot of time out in the wilds so cultivating herblore is a must, but they're also involved with medical treatment of their dogs.

Most of the rituals they do have are hallucinogenic; running until you 'hit the wall', sweat lodge, eating strange fungi... The rituals are often done with their dogs where the Fangs attempt to merge their spirits together.

The Fangs are selected first and foremost for their skills at hunting and then their ability to bond with a chosen dog. Each Fang will likely cultivate a specific lineage of dogs that they will constantly draw companions from over their life.

8. The Ember-Eyes technically don't have a monopoly, but if anyone discovers something new, they're instantly snapped up by the Ember-Eyes. Anyone could make lime or soap, but for the most part people aren't interested in that. They want genuine magic direct from one of the Ember-Eyes. People tend to be chosen to be part of the Ember-Eyes due to intelligence and... well... pyromania in their youth. Training begins very young, not many adults know the secrets of fire magic independently, they tend to be snapped up before that if they show any talent.

The big magic that the Ember-Eyes have discovered are lime, soap, glue, resin, turning amethyst to citrine, and fired brick. A recent discover they've made is that dried corn kernals taste wonderful once roasted and then mixed with salt and rendered fat.

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Y'know, with how games of this system are... not exactly common, but seeing some proliferation (the original, Yucatan and its Indian counterpart, now this quest, afaik), I can't help but think how it'd be really neat if one of these days one of them went "you know all this stuff about magic and spirits and whatnot? it's real". Both for some variety, and to simply play with people's expectations.

 

[veekie]

He's clearly Old Man Winter though

Y'know, with how games of this system are... not exactly common, but seeing some proliferation (the original, Yucatan and its Indian counterpart, now this quest, afaik), I can't help but think how it'd be really neat if one of these days one of them went "you know all this stuff about magic and spirits and whatnot? it's real". Both for some variety, and to simply play with people's expectations.

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There was actual magic bullshit in PoC once you studied the evidence.

 

[Marlin]

There was actual magic bullshit in PoC once you studied the evidence.

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Wasn't that mostly coincidence? Not actual magic, but a cop-out so the roll that had the ymaryn win a war did not mean the ymaryn got crushed by a falling rock on the battlefront?

 

[Korporati]

Y'know, with how games of this system are... not exactly common, but seeing some proliferation (the original, Yucatan and its Indian counterpart, now this quest, afaik), I can't help but think how it'd be really neat if one of these days one of them went "you know all this stuff about magic and spirits and whatnot? it's real". Both for some variety, and to simply play with people's expectations.

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But players in this quest represent essentially the civilization and giving the ooc magic information would almost lead to players immediatly exploiting it, which is a bit of out of context and cheating.

 

[veekie]

Wasn't that mostly coincidence? Not actual magic, but a cop-out so the roll that had the ymaryn win a war did not mean the ymaryn got crushed by a falling rock on the battlefront?

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Unlikely to be coincidence. We worked it out. It was not physically possible to point to the incoming meteor before it was visible. Not by that margin.

 

[Rafin]

Oh no. The same worked for RL pigs. Wild boars are massive. They aren't really apex predator material so much as a prey animal which had devised its entire competitive strategy around "if you kill me I will maim you before I die". All the way down to the iron age, people still died hunting boars, because of mass and momentum and because when they get angry they smash everything around them.

But they had domesticated pigs too. They were easier to domesticate with food and shelter than by force.

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I don't know if you can just equate our massive armored rhino-hogs with common wild murderboars. Similar looking animal species often have wildly differing behavior. Look at horses vs zebras for instance, which are pretty much the same size. You yourself mentioned that RL wild boars are prey animals with the strategy of mutually assured destruction. Orkers on the other hand can destroy most predators we have seen single-handedly and get away with scratches. From description they could potentially walk up to a pack of wolves and if they aren't too desperate the wolves will make way. Respect for other species should be less of a thing for them than it was for boars. Humans will be less about protection and more about being a convenient source of varied food and maybe warmth, if we manage to make stables large enough for them to be comfortable.

Note: Ahhh! I wanted to make this focused on a kind of four leaders with the power of the seasons religious pantheon. Have Kaspar added as a time god that stands at the side of the other four leaders. Yet, I got this when I tried to paraphrase Kaspar's life as a myth.

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I haven't yet read your omake but our holy orders can already be easily correlated to three of the seasons. We only need some kind of Spring order. Or an order that does autumn better than the Fangs.

 

[Spacegnom]

[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)

"Withdraw" is clearly winning, so I see no reason not to settle near the river fork immediately. The Expand Hunting action should significantly lower the chance of starvation.

 

[Korporati]

[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)

"Withdraw" is clearly winning, so I see no reason not to settle near the river fork immediately. The Expand Hunting action should significantly lower the chance of starvation.

 

[Japanime]

[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Put off the settlement for a generation. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [War] Finish South Lake forevermore. (Raid: South Lake)

 

[Marlin]

He's clearly Old Man Winter though

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No, he isn't.

Kaspar is likely going to become a god, likely the first one that's remembered as human. Feodor is remembered as the Stag-That-Is-The-Sun that's likely to diverge into a Sunrise-High Noon-Sunset triarchy, and the Finger's original female Martial hero is remembered as She-The-Snow. Alvar's story is fused to that of Brother Wolf (who is, for the record, female, despite being named Brother) as an ephemeral spirit of war.

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Winter is cold, unfeeling, uncaring. Kaspar cared, had a bit of weather trouble, and kept focusing on growing things.

Unlikely to be coincidence. We worked it out. It was not physically possible to point to the incoming meteor before it was visible. Not by that margin.

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Doesn't change the fact 'magic' was used to interrupt the ymaryn dying, or just being aware of the falling rock. That was the only time 'magic' happened. And actually it probably is physically possible to sense the falling rock. IIRC humans have a sense of balance/direction air pressure. Like how old people could feel a storm coming. Or she just got lucky.

I haven't yet read your omake but our holy orders can already be easily correlated to three of the seasons. We only need some kind of Spring order. Or an order that does autumn better than the Fangs.

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I didn't want to put Kaspar as the leader of the pantheon. The only order Kaspar founded so to speak was IIRC the cold fanatics. And I used the other orders Kaspar didn't found to make a myth be not a religous copy from reality, but something organic.

 

[Rafin]

[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [War] Finish South Lake forevermore. (Raid: South Lake)

I'm very sure that both will not win but I want to increase the chances that either one or the other does. If the impossible happens and both move close to winning I'll change my vote.

IIRC humans have a sense of balance/direction air pressure.

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Light from a descending fireball is faster than any air pressure. And air pressure in turn only slightly precedes sound.

IIRC there has been other stuff that players deemed "magic". Subtle stuff that allowed the Ymary of old to do simply unreal stuff when it came to social cohesion and whatnot.

 

[godofsmallthings]

Humans will be less about protection and more about being a convenient source of varied food and maybe warmth, if we manage to make stables large enough for them to be comfortable.

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That's why you train them while they are young and smaller than you. That way they learn to obey humans.

Elephants are trained the same way.

 

[Kelenas]

But players in this quest represent essentially the civilization and giving the ooc magic information would almost lead to players immediatly exploiting it, which is a bit of out of context and cheating.

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You're taking what I said too literal. My point was that it'd be neat to have one of these civilization-building games have actual magic in it. In part because I figure it'd be neat to basically see magic being created from the ground up just like other parts of the civilization, in part because it subverts expectations.

 

[Rafin]

Elephants are trained the same way.

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I was going to say that elephants have a different temperament, but here is where I have to admit that I have no idea what kind of temperament orkers have. I'll just have to wait on Word of Redium to form a picture in my mind.