Can First Circle Demons learn Celestial martial arts? I ask because I'm looking sidelong at Five Falling Butterflies Style for a Citizen. I presume that they can't by default, but could sufficient tutelage at, say, Sutarankal change that?
 
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Can First Circle Demons learn Celestial martial arts? I ask because I'm looking sidelong at Five Falling Butterflies Style for a Citizen. I presume that they can't by default, but could sufficient tutelage at, say, Sutarankal change that?
I don't remember there being a ban against it. In 2e at least I think Gods needed at least Essence 4 or something? Maybe go with that if you're talking 2e. In 3e I'd imagine there are even less restrictions.
 
I don't remember there being a ban against it. In 2e at least I think Gods needed at least Essence 4 or something? Maybe go with that if you're talking 2e. In 3e I'd imagine there are even less restrictions.
There's no Celestial/Terrestrial MA split. Just Martial Arts, and Sidereal Martial Arts. First Circle Demons would be limited by the Terrestrial keyword providing certain nerfs. Second Circle Demons would not have the Terrestrial Keyword nerfing the Charms. Martial Art focused Third Circles may or may not have Mastery for Styles that resonate with them, giving them powerful buffs to various Charms. Mara has Mastery on Black Claw, but the book notes that she's an exception, not an example, even among the strongest spirits.

Generally speaking, though, it's hard for spirits to learn MA. Some can, but it's not at all typical.
 
A question.

This charm:

Dipping Swallow Defense

Basically tells the universe "No, I don't care that I am stuck in much, with heavy lead weights tied to my wrists, drugged until I can barely see and with a broken bottle as a weapon. I will act as if I'm in top form and with a perfect weapon". Does it?

And this:

Fivefold Bulwark Stance

This means that "One or a thousand, it is all the same. All will be defeated. It basically says that no matter how many enemies attack at once, the solar exalted will act as if its still one person."
 
A question.

This charm:

Dipping Swallow Defense

Basically tells the universe "No, I don't care that I am stuck in much, with heavy lead weights tied to my wrists, drugged until I can barely see and with a broken bottle as a weapon. I will act as if I'm in top form and with a perfect weapon". Does it?

And this:

Fivefold Bulwark Stance

This means that "One or a thousand, it is all the same. All will be defeated. It basically says that no matter how many enemies attack at once, the solar exalted will act as if its still one person."
...What's the question?
 
Solar charms aren't speaking to the universe and saying "THIS IS SO BECAUSE I SAY SO", that's fandom wankery. What solar charms are is superlative expressions of skill. DSD means that they are so skilled that they can parry in situations that would spell death for lesser swordswomen. FBS means that they are so skilled that they can fight a horde of warriors like they were fighting one.
 
A question.

This charm:

Dipping Swallow Defense

Basically tells the universe "No, I don't care that I am stuck in much, with heavy lead weights tied to my wrists, drugged until I can barely see and with a broken bottle as a weapon. I will act as if I'm in top form and with a perfect weapon". Does it?

And this:

Fivefold Bulwark Stance

This means that "One or a thousand, it is all the same. All will be defeated. It basically says that no matter how many enemies attack at once, the solar exalted will act as if its still one person."
Dipping Swallow Defense means you parry really fast and well. Fivefold Bulwark Stance means you parry really fast and well all the time without much effort. Everything else is weird non-canon fluff but if you like it for your game more power to you.
 
Solar charms aren't speaking to the universe and saying "THIS IS SO BECAUSE I SAY SO", that's fandom wankery.
Nnnno, Solars do have a shade of that in their thematics. It's generally the reasoning behind Wyld-Shaping Technique, for example; Solars are called the Lawgivers for a reason. They do have an edge of the god-king who commands the heavens and the earth. You have to be careful with that element lest it hog the spotlight, but it's there.
 
Nnnno, Solars do have a shade of that in their thematics. It's generally the reasoning behind Wyld-Shaping Technique, for example; Solars are called the Lawgivers for a reason. They do have an edge of the god-king who commands the heavens and the earth. You have to be careful with that element lest it hog the spotlight, but it's there.
Yeah, it's just not in Melee, is the main thing. You find it in Lore and Integrity mostly. Little bit in Occult. Melee is pretty much just being the best thing around because you're the best. Your bestestness makes you bestesterer, if you will.
 
"I am so powerful that my sheer mystical might warps the very cosmos" is a thing that should be exceedingly rare in the solar charmset and when it is used, it is used with a light touch and only at high essence, in my opinion.

It is far more appropriate in more esoteric charmsets, like Sidereals, probably the Gets, Infernals (def in 2e, possibly in 3e), as well as some esoteric Martial Art Styles.
 
Maybe I put it in too much grandeur. But not receiving onslaught penalties means that your parry DV doesn't receive penalties due to simultaneous coordinated attacks?
 
"I am so powerful that my sheer mystical might warps the very cosmos" is a thing that should be exceedingly rare in the solar charmset and when it is used, it is used with a light touch and only at high essence, in my opinion.

It is far more appropriate in more esoteric charmsets, like Sidereals, probably the Gets, Infernals (def in 2e, possibly in 3e), as well as some esoteric Martial Art Styles.
I mean, Wyld-Shaping Technique and Chaos-Repelling Pattern seem to make it clear that Solars' ability to do that is mostly limited to ordering around inanimate matter and Wyld gooblies. Being able to tell your chamber pot to fuck off with reality-warping but not your butler seems like an appropriate level of restraint.
 
Its more of "My skill shines through all impediments"
Thats basically what Dipping Swallow Defense means: you perform at your best ability.
Incidentally for Fate fans Dipping Swallow Defense references the same event as Tsubame Gaeshi: The swallow always avoids the attack as long as there is a path.
Yeah, I've been thinking of stuff, like, how to think of guides to make charms.

There seem to be several ways. First is to add dice or successes. Second is to reduce penalties, from anything. Third is to perfectly do something. Fourth is to do things like bypass penalties from situations, like being able to conjure up a sword when you have no weapon, or when you can connect to any computer system remotely when the greatest defense is making sure there is no outside connection. Fifth is to make things faster, like craftsman needs no tools.

Other than that, not much else.
 
Yeah, I've been thinking of stuff, like, how to think of guides to make charms.

There seem to be several ways. First is to add dice or successes. Second is to reduce penalties, from anything. Third is to perfectly do something. Fourth is to do things like bypass penalties from situations, like being able to conjure up a sword when you have no weapon, or when you can connect to any computer system remotely when the greatest defense is making sure there is no outside connection. Fifth is to make things faster, like craftsman needs no tools.

Other than that, not much else.
The first step is actually playing Exalted, and learning its system in practice, and then homebrewing, once you know how things work in play.
 
Problem.

I'm in Singapore. And..... I don't really talk to people.
Then you're not likely to produce good homebrew. Like...sorry, but playing the game is kind of a prerequisite to knowing what works in play and how powers play out. You can't write a Charm guide unless you know how mechanics actually work, and you're not gonna have a feel for the mechanics without playing the system.
 
..... I guess so.

So let's talk about something different. Anyone used Hound of the Five Winds as an attack dog during combat, when they have time and realise they have no demons on hand?
 
Then you're not likely to produce good homebrew. Like...sorry, but playing the game is kind of a prerequisite to knowing what works in play and how powers play out. You can't write a Charm guide unless you know how mechanics actually work, and you're not gonna have a feel for the mechanics without playing the system.
Nah. The system isn't that complex.
 
I would advise against writing a How To guide for Fate without having played Fate and seen how your players handle your ideas.
I mean... I wouldn't, but I also don't think that analogy holds, because Fate is by its nature a significantly squishier system than Exalted, at once a lot more mechanically simplistic, but also a lot more open to wiggleroom and interpretation. Fate's mechanics lean towards a discussion of whether and how you can invoke Aspects, while Exalted is much more a mathematical equation of this many dice against that difficulty with those modifiers. Not entirely, of course, but the point is that while I disagree that playing a game is necessary to, as @ManusDomini puts it, have a feel for the system, Fate lends itself better to understanding it through experience rather than examination, due to the nature of its mechanics.
 
I mean... I wouldn't, but I also don't think that analogy holds, because Fate is by its nature a significantly squishier system than Exalted, at once a lot more mechanically simplistic, but also a lot more open to wiggleroom and interpretation. Fate's mechanics lean towards a discussion of whether and how you can invoke Aspects, while Exalted is much more a mathematical equation of this many dice against that difficulty with those modifiers. Not entirely, of course, but the point is that while I disagree that playing a game is necessary to, as @ManusDomini puts it, have a feel for the system, Fate lends itself better to understanding it through experience rather than examination, due to the nature of its mechanics.
The pure math can be misleading, though. See: the initiative pinata assumption tons of people had which in play gets you dead pretty fast because combat is way more swingy than it first appears. Some people might pull it off, but some people are polymaths and Olympic athletes too. Doesn't change the advice that before you decide to write a paper on how to get in shape, instead of reading up on how to get in shape, you should actually see what getting in shape feels like yourself.
 
The pure math can be misleading, though. See: the initiative pinata assumption tons of people had which in play gets you dead pretty fast because combat is way more swingy than it first appears. Some people might pull it off, but some people are polymaths and Olympic athletes too. Doesn't change the advice that before you decide to write a paper on how to get in shape, instead of reading up on how to get in shape, you should actually see what getting in shape feels like yourself.
Yeah, but that that just means people did bad theorycrafting; the people were at fault, not the method. Tons of people kept turning up in 2e to say that Paranoia Combat wasn't a problem because they hadn't run into lethality, that doesn't mean their experience was all that useful to the discussion.

Like, you're trying to draw an equivalence here between fitness training and playing a pen-and-paper RPG and it just doesn't hold water. For one thing, frankly if you're willing to put in the hours studying metabolic biology and secondary sources on the efficacy of various diets vs exercise regimes, then no, I don't think you need to do the physical work yourself to write a good paper on it. It's a lot of work compared to just standing up and trying a new exercise regime, but that doesn't mean it's invalid.

For two, the topic you're trying to draw an equivalence to is on the one hand fundamentally much more of an applied, physical endeavour than the intellectual exercise of a make-believe elfgame, and also vastly more complex than an RPG system which can currently be understood by reading all of two books, soon to be three. One of them's a bloated, over-written doorstopper, granted, but still - two books. Maybe try this again when there's at least a university course dedicated to studying Exalted, lol
 
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