Be like the Imperium of the future and remember, we have more bodies then they do. Be it Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, or even Chaos, we can outgrind them. The enemy needs momentum to win, while we win by default at a draw. Hold the line Guardsmen and make them pay for every inch.
I mean its because the Arabs came back from pretty much death and total destruction and moral obliteration to wrecking our shit in like a turn after we destroyed them. Like we burn the Islamic holy city, how much more destruction do you have to perform for them to back off for a while?
I wish we could unlock the meat grinder modifier: everyone accepts that war is never ending and we use Rome's supper power infinite manpower to throw warm bodies at the problem
The Caliph is only making sure that Islam will be remebered as nothing but self destructive idiocy. Instead of consolidating, he decides to slaughter civilians. He has done nothing but seal the fate of his culture. I don't think any Roman will oppose a genocide after this.
Genocide requires time and energy things we don't have. I say return the favor to caliph and pillage all his lands and burn down the rest. All the loot would go a long way to helping our budget
I've hardly done that, you have loads of choices because I believe player agency, like I allow yoy you to do bad decisions if you want to.
At the same time your choices have mattered, the entire reason the Empire is fighting back better than the original invasion (Where they lost some 160-180k troops within six months) is because you're making better choices.
At the same would you prefer I abandon any realistic bonuses to armies and empires and literally make it a dice roll? Right now it's a varying amount of factors - quality of leadership, morale, quality of troops, terrain, defender's benefit, character based behaviour and a load of other factors that make each roll tilted towards the likely outcome you all just have some crap rolls. I mean the entire point of wieghted rolls is to show that history had luck as a factor.
I'm not trying to end the quest but if the rolls are literally below 50 constantly without relief I can't do much. On the other things are hardly as bad as Lags put it.
First up, yeah, you're right. "Every choice or decision" was an exaggeration, I got caught up in the negative hype. I'm sorry. I'll stand strong on the dice not giving us much to work with though, and you've got to admit the mood of the thread is pretty dismal right now because of how badly they've been burning us. It's hard to be enthusiastic about a quest where the opponent is just a god-king who can tear ass on every front even after we've basically gutted his forces and sacked fuckin Mecca. Regardless, I apologise for overreacting.
On the topic of overreacting, that third paragraph. Where did you get 'abandon weight to the rolls and make it all random' from 'the RNG is making this quest unenjoyable'? I understand that luck is a factor in history, but this feels like a real stretch of that given that we've done much better than actual Byzantium in the leadup to this and are still getting thrashed regardless of having sacked Mecca, kept Aegyptus, and broken their armies over our knees. Because the Arabs apparently pilfered every last penny from Oriens and then blew it all on armies instead of trying to, I dunno, fix the holy city that's almost the centre of their religion and has recently been burned down.
The Caliph is only making sure that Islam will be remebered as nothing but self destructive idiocy. Instead of consolidating, he decides to slaughter civilians. He has done nothing but seal the fate of his culture. I don't think any Roman will oppose a genocide after this.
I'm gonna pass on genociding the Arabs, thanks. With how the rolls are going Allah would probably turn out to be real and decide to come down to personally crush our nuts for it.
I'm gonna pass on genociding the Arabs, thanks. With how the rolls are going Allah would probably turn out to be real and decide to come down to personally crush our nuts for it.
It's kinda important for your subjects in Arabia and I'm really unsure where the line is when the mods will step in despite it being absolutely historically accurate (that the Romans would make an effort to destroy the enemy, especially if they could)
I think we're safe with burning down a city, as long as it doesn't get really gratuitous and glorifying. It's the "genocide the Arabs" sentiment that'd get a crackdown. I'm definitely in favour of properly ruining Mecca, Carthage-style, when we get our hands on it again. Tell them to fuck off and not come near us ever again except to kiss the feet of the Emperor.
I don't want this to end but what do we have to do to get some dawm peace. It seems no matter what we do we can't get time to rebuild and the Arabs just keep coming back from what should have been a defeat.
I'm not trying to end the quest but if the rolls are literally below 50 constantly without relief I can't do much. On the other things are hardly as bad as Lags put it.
Hey all I said was that the rolls got worse which is objectively true and that we rolled a negative at one point I didn't say anything else it was all their own over active imaginations claiming that we were all gonna die and that the quest is over. Even when I provided info entirely contrary to that and straight up said we're down but not out of the fight yet.
Genocide requires time and energy things we don't have. I say return the favor to caliph and pillage all his lands and burn down the rest. All the loot would go a long way to helping our budget
The plan was to just have the Sassanids take over most of their former lands and the Persian gulf coast line with the exception of the part that controls the rivers leading into Mesopotamia and Mesopotamia its self which we're planning on taking since it's basically another Oriens. So if we want the land to be worth anything and for our relations with the Sassanids to stay good enough to not get into another war with them in a decade we really shouldn't do this.
Especially since it'd only serve to overextend us in the future even further than we are now. Plus there are only 30k Muslims left so getting rid of them one way or another should be easy hell we could just leave them to the Sassanids and they'll probably do it for us since by the end of the war they'll probably be down to about 15k since we killed most of the men.
we have to send a message to the caliph that this has gone on far to long the war was over and they just couldn't get it through their skulls so they sold their future down the river just to build a new army. so I say put Mecca to the torch and salt the land as a show of power.
we have to send a message to the caliph that this has gone on far to long the war was over and they just couldn't get it through their skulls so they sold their future down the river just to build a new army. so I say put Mecca to the torch and salt the land as a show of power.
We can't afford that we're down to much in terms of income and military strength to piss off our only way of securing our eastern border and wrecking a region that's basically another Egypt or Oriens.
[X] Plan Everything Is On Fire
- [X] To Jerusalem, the Prefect is outnumbered soundly and a loss there would mean the fall of Oriens. Again. Pelusium is a sturdy fortress manned by nearly two thirds the number of its besiegers, it will hold for enough time to allow you to fight the Caliph first.
- [X] Hadrian, one of the five good emperors, the mastermind behind Hadrian's wall -one of the largest limes in the Empire and a great administrator and orator managing to establish an era of peace and prosperity.
- [X] [Imperator Focus] (Cost 14,000 Upkeep 7,000) The Empire has recovered to an extent, new meros can be raised in certain regions once more but where do you raise the army?
-- [X] Aegyptus x2
- [X] [Imperator Focus] (Cost 20,000, 16,000 Upkeep 20,000) Due to the economic and manpower crisis after the Arab invasion most auxiliaries were disbanded and contracts were ended with the Imperial coffers so heavily reduced, unfortunately it included most of our archers. Though the heavy infantry can double as archers in most situations and horse archers are present in decent numbers throughout the empire it would be wise to restore the vital auxilia to the meros of the Empire.
- [X] (Cost 4,000, -2,000 for one turn) Start the repairs in the province of Dalmatia, maybe we can restart the mining industry in the province.
- [X] (Cost 10,000, -5,000 for two turns) Start the repairs in the province of Asiana, a former hub of silk production and manufactories were turned to ruins due to occupation and looting.
- [X] Spend your time focusing on managing the Empire. (Gives a second Imperator Focus)
- [X] Send Niketas to Egypt to take command of the troops there and lead the defense of the province against the Arabs.
~O~
The year of 652 was filled with conflict between the Imperial army and the Rashidun army, beginning with the events of the Battle of Thospia last year.
The heavy mauling received by the Imperial army had caused it to stop its attempt at purusual of their enemies as they launched an invasion of Syria, including a siege of Antiochia and the Caliph's trusted advisor and the son in law of the Prophet to raise more fervor against the Empire.
Following this regular contingents of soldiers lightly equipped, both muslim and not muslim continued arriving to aid the Arabs. The Muslims were fueled by the rage of their destroyed homes and those uninspired by religion were much more inspired by the promise of land in the fertile Nilotic region.
Aided by these extra men the Caliph was able to use them as garrisons for his rapid march from town to town and quick sieges as most towns were swayed by his silver tongue though most major metropolis' remained in Roman hands due to recently formed garrisons.
Greatly emboldened by his near conquest of Syria the Caliph then moved on to establish the basis of his reign, masses of Persians and Tribal peoples from the north of the great citadel of Derbent were granted land throughout the fertile areas with no care to the native populace's sentiment.
The Roman populace, formerly eased by his promise of gold and then his deliverance of gold was only briefly at peace before it rose in outrage against the sudden seizure of land, an army -a mob, really- hastily assembled by the local city leaders marched on the Arabs encamped near the Euphrates.
Needless to say, the peasants were very ill-equipped and not able to fight the Caliph properly. At all. The result of the two day rebellion was the traditional, and hypocritical, Arab tradition of sparing those who did not resist but slaying any that did, it was a massacre.
By the end of the week horrified Imperial caravans were fleeing on mass to the remaining coastal settlements held by the Empire, bloating cities that had, till now, been in decline due to the first Arab sacking and were now suddenly in upturn due to the sudden arrival of so many refugees.
But by the end of the month the Arab vanguard was cut down in a decisive push by Heraklonas near the occupied city of Amida and subsequently after a few more skirmishes the Caliphate lifted the siege of Antiochia and withdrew in good order with some 'locals' left behind to slow the Imperial Army as it travelled down to warn the local army of the present threat.
The local Imperial forces on the other hand were led by the decorated veteran general Aretion, a known victor over the Arabs and confident that the larger Arab army had left to besiege Pelusium he rallied his four meroii in full strength as he sallied from Jerusalem to lift the siege of Neapolis, which was in fact already occupied by the Arabs.
He was surprised at the sudden appearance of a large Arab army from the supposedly Roman fortress and the empty tents and campfires surrounding the fort left him with little time to prepare his men as they were overwhelmed by an initial Arab charge.
Once pushed back to Jerusalem they were defeated decisively by the larger Arab army leading to the entrapment of the four vasty weakened meroii inside the walls as they barely numbered more than one and a half meros.
The first battle of Jerusalem was hardly the only disaster to strike the recoiling empire, in the south at the gates of Aegyptus the economist turned governor of Aegyptus, Theodore, had chosen to sally out and attempt to turn away the Arabs from the gates of Aegyptus but the battle did not go his way from the very start.
Not only did he lose the battle decisively but by the end of the month it was an astounded and frustrated Niketas that arrived in Alexandria and collected the recruits for his two new meroii as he camped in Boubastis with ire in his mind due to the loss of Pelusium.
Pressured by increasing Arab raids past the fort and the news of an Arab ship making drive forced the general into an attack far earlier than he was comfortable, with an army of whom half were green and the other half demoralised he marched on to do his best to deter an Arab naval effort.
The second battle for Pelusium went no better for the Roman army than the first, if anything it was far more worse as by the end of it the morale of the Roman army had shattered nearly absolutely as they fell back to Boubastis.
Throughout the operation there was but one piece of news that slightly cheered the Imperials, a group of Imperial ships (regular fire) had not only snuck into the harbour but burnt most of the shipbuilding areas of Pelusium, if the Arabs wanted to continue a shipbuilding effort now they would need to capture another coastal city.
Worried by the string of defeats the Arabs had caused to his generals, both experienced and inexperienced, the Emperor launched his own counter-attack near Jerusalem with the full force of his six meroii.
From the fourteenth of May the Emperor fought on for six days trying his hardest to force his way to the gates of Jerusalem in order to relieve some of his meroii trapped within.
His effort, however, was not in vain as due to the intense struggle and multiple minor victories at certain points of the line the Emperor managed to restock the garrison at Jerusalem.
The success was, as usual, marred with the failure of the defenders being replaced and relieved and so as the battle ended in a stalemate on the seventh day with the ailing meroii of Oriens stuck behind the strong walls of Jerusalem but by no means was this an end to the conflict in Jerusalem.
Even as the Imperial banners drew back to Caesarea Maritima the siege of Jerusalem had begun anew, this time the siege was for its very existence.
The sole glimmer of light came from the north, Governor Constantius had led his heavily ragtag group of men to victory against the superior forces of the Caliphate in the first battle of Trapezus.
Accepting your decision to go south as sound once more he had gone out to fight the Arabs at Trapezus and through sheer grit and stubborn defiance he had once more repelled the Arab army besieging Trapezus.
More than that not only did he push back the Arabs but also killed their general in battle, and sent the Arab army running south as they chose not to continue the attack in the north afraid of the general, sadly for the Empire, Prefect Constantius passed away due to his wounds two weeks after his greatest victory.
Though disheartened by his death the emperor next moved to the fortress of Bostra to continue observing the besieging forces and spent the next six months constantly raiding and making sure meagre amounts of supplies constantly continued trickling into the city to prolong the siege.
All of this was, however, interrupted by the news of the northern Arab Army crossing the city of Emesa and moving rapidly towards the south in an attempt to sneak past his vigilant watch but the Emperor moved to intercept them, and intercept them he did in the Battle of Bostra.
The battle was a decisive battle between the Caliphate and the Empire, led by a new inexperienced general and facing a superior army was a major disadvantage for the Caliphate before the fight even started.
General Abbas, leading the Caliphate army, had presumed that on a flat plain the advantage would be retained by his lighter army as they could maneuver far more easily than the very heavy infantry that remained the backbone of the Roman army.
His hopes and wishes, however, were hardly respected by fate as it crushed them beneath her feet with the Roman Cataphractii decisively winning against his cavalry well the majority of his elephants failed to truly do harm to Imperial lines.
Followed by the defeat of the Lamellar Cavalry (Cataphract lite) by the Imperial Cataphracts the battle turned decisively in the Imperial's favour and the elephants were only reigned back for a desperate last ditch attempt to salvage the situation near the end of the battle.
Knowing that the battle was lost Abbas launched a flurry of cavalry attacks with the still sizable remnants of his cavalry whilst massed volleys of arrow fire rained down upon a disarrayed Imperial battle lines after a massed elephant charge, following which a massive Arab withdrawal took place at a heavy cost.
Taking with him nought but the most zealous of men the general sacrificed himself to a frustrated Emperor as they successfully fought to the death to protect the retreat of remaining army as it travelled past Bostra defeating the garrison trying to hold them back and straight into the awaiting arms of the Caliph as he prepared for his own battle should the Emperor pursue him, something he did not as he fell back to Bostra.
Resting in Bostra the Emperor mulled on what to do as further news of clashes near Boubastis reached his ears, with news of defeat after defeat in skirmishes alongside the fortress his own question was about aid, the morale in Aegyptus was shattered.
Though mutiny was averted by the nature of the situation and the enemy the question of the Empire's ability to win the war echoed in Egypt with most commanders under Niketas pressuring the general to stand back and defend Boubastis without opposing the raids that were launched on the eastern shore of the Nile.
In the west the constant threat of a Frankish war of retribution loomed over Italia, only by reputation and bluffing was Lucius managing to keep the peace.
The Emperor was between a rock and a hard place, forced to choose between a multitude of unappealing solutions to problems that had fallen upon him.
[] Fight the Caliph's army head on, hope to the Lord that the garrison manages to gather themselves in any semblance of order and sally out to aid you.
[] Head south and try to reach Niketas before his army decides for itself to fall back further, hope that the Caliph does not follow you to flank you.
[] Send two more meroii to bolster Aegyptus, raise two in Asiana and sail them to you in Caesarea Maritima. (Cost 32,000, Upkeep 16,000)
Projects: (Can take as many as you want, Imperator can focus on One to reduce cost by 25%)
[] (Cost 16,000 Upkeep 8,000) The Empire has recovered to an extent, new meros can be raised in certain regions once more but where do you raise the army?
-[] Aegyptus
-[] Africa Proconsularis
-[] Italia
-[] Sicilia
-[] Asiana
[] (Cost 10,000) Order Callinicus to further his research into Greek Fire, producing it in a form that could be used by trebuchets. (2 Turns)
[] (Cost 7,000) Order Callinicus to further his research into making Greek Fire stable whilst in transport. (Reduces one turn for other Greek Fire research projects)
[] (Cost 100,000; Upkeep 50,000) Establish a system based upon Frontius's plans for lightning communication between even far off provinces like Aegyptus. {Frontinus, while studying the Greek classics, invented a system of communication based on towers, mirrors, and shutting apparatuses that could communicate along Roman empire by means of light rays (day only). Using something similar to a morse code, operators positioned in towers along a route, distant 20 by 20 km, could deliver messages from all over the empire at lightning quick speeds.}
[] (Cost 2,000) The Bulgarians may have retreated but let us advance and show them not even the Danuvius will save them from Roman vengeance!
[] (Cost 5,000 for three turns.) The Visigothic Kings are weak. That is a fact. That they also have different laws for their Roman subjects compared to their Visigothic ones is also a fact. There are plenty of Romano-Hispanic people prepared to rebel, with the proper funding they may just reclaim the coast for the empire...
[] (Cost 30,000) Invest in Africa Proconsularis to revitalise the former breadbasket of the late Western Roman Empire, it is in a remote location and with the closeness of the allied Berbers in Numidia it is further secured all the whilst it is ruled by loyalists. (Takes two turns, increases revenue, employment, and population growth locally)
[] (Cost 10,000) Invest into urban centers across the empire. (Invests into, Ephesus, Roma, Brundisium, Antiochia, Alexandria, etc to decentralize wealth and revenue.) [Repeatable each turn]
[] (Cost 50,000 Initial, 30000 for two more turns) The majority of the Roman Navy cannot use its dominance to aid the war, but perhaps we can repair and refit the Canal of the Pharaohs to increase the reach of our navy, after all even if it isn't ready nothing wakes Arabs up better at the night than a healthy dose of Greek Fire they didn't expect in the first place! (Greatly increases trade)
[] (Cost 50,000 Initially, -30,000 for three turns) Oriens has been savagely attacked, its population has fallen its farmlands and orchards have been destroyed and no more are its naval bases properly operational in any city but Antioch. The people need some hope at the very least they need tax free relief, not that they have anything to tax. (Takes three turns)
Imperator's personal actions:
[] Send a diplomatic mission
-[] To Tang China
-[] To the Sassanid Kingdom
-[] To the Bulgar Khaganate
-[] To the Frankish Kingdom
-[] To the Visigothic Kingdom
[] (Cost 7,500) Establish a relationship with the Alans, they were apt horse archers and formerly a Sassan tributary with enough wealth perhaps you could poach them.
[] (Cost 5,000) Send a military mission to the Romano-British, though chances of any effect is fairly low it is always a joy to see Germans fail in their endeavour to settle former Roman areas.
[] (Cost 20,000) Hire slavic tribes from across the Danube in an effort to settle them in Oriens. [Gain 15,000 Foederati Spearmen, 5,000 Foederati Slingers] Though it may result in eventual problems.
[] Write-in (Subject to Author consideration)
Nation: Imperium Romanorum
Year: Anno Domini 652
Imperator: Flavius Constantinus Heraclius II 'Heraklonas' Augustus; (25 Years) [ADM:7/DIP:4/MAR:10]
Heir: Caesar Flavius Hadrian Heraklios (Age 1 Year) [ADM:0/DIP:0/MAR:0]
Population: 25,156,967
Three Hour Moratorium to discuss the events and plan for the uncertain future, the dice finally returned to your favour by the end of the chapter!
