Hm. On one hand, Peace really wants to kill the DB. On the other hand, initiating combat is a pretty bad idea when the only way to fight involves going inside a bonfire, and even if he could win that would probably reveal himself to be a Solar, which is not what he wants. Decisions, decisions.
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Dragon and Bull (Exalted 3E)
- Thread starter FaeGlade Plural
- Start date
- OOC
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- Tags
- exalted (white wolf)
Sucal
Forced to return
Don't forget that she might have friends nearby, none of us really have ranged capabilities yet and it honestly isn't our fight. Lissica said 'screw this, I'm out of here' for a reason after all.
- Location
- The end of all things
Even if it's lax compared to previous editions, the 4m/instant limit on peripheral essence does make being covert rather hard when fighting a reasonably powerful Dragon-Blooded. Then again, the DB has spent a fair amount of essence here. An effective size 3 battle group is not a trivial asset, though the DB has allies incoming as well.
Beyond all that, you have to consider the possibility of reprisals should you succeed. Those could get really nasty.
Sucal
Forced to return
Of course, @Anasurimbor and I will be behind you, whatever you do.
Its just that Lissica will be a mile behind you, wishing she had some demons or elementals around to be meat shields.
Its just that Lissica will be a mile behind you, wishing she had some demons or elementals around to be meat shields.
Sucal
Forced to return
Slots are full, were over full and I suspect the waiting list is filled as well (10 entries, 3 chosen)
Zedalb
I just started a Patreon!
- Location
- Washington
only 3 players at a time?
Zedalb
I just started a Patreon!
- Location
- Washington
Then I simply must write the most awesome and perfect back story!
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
@Anasurimbor :
The Fire-Aspect is motivated less by Immaculate Doctrine, and more by a personal Hatred for Ancestor Cults. (Major Tie: Hatred for Ancestor Cults).
Due to excess successes (and to cut down on repetitive posting), you also learn that she values mortal lives, but only if they are not tainted by heretic stuff such as underworld essence. (Defining Principle: Untainted Life is precious). Her beliefs are likely flexible enough to allow for such people to be cleansed of their impurities/reformed, though she does not currently believe that to be possible.
The Fire-Aspect is motivated less by Immaculate Doctrine, and more by a personal Hatred for Ancestor Cults. (Major Tie: Hatred for Ancestor Cults).
Due to excess successes (and to cut down on repetitive posting), you also learn that she values mortal lives, but only if they are not tainted by heretic stuff such as underworld essence. (Defining Principle: Untainted Life is precious). Her beliefs are likely flexible enough to allow for such people to be cleansed of their impurities/reformed, though she does not currently believe that to be possible.
- Location
- The end of all things
Oh, it was an ancestor cult. Their destruction was clearly just and necessary, then. 
With that, her dialogue and actions make substantially greater sense. I'm a little annoyed at myself for overlooking the possibility, especially when @C.o.S.a.R's character had some of that in his backstory. I'll see if I can whip up a plea for mercy, but Sigh is certainly not going to get in a fight over them without a really good reason, even if Broken Peace does. Note that Broken Peace getting his ass kicked and faintly glowing gold would be a good reason.
With that, her dialogue and actions make substantially greater sense. I'm a little annoyed at myself for overlooking the possibility, especially when @C.o.S.a.R's character had some of that in his backstory. I'll see if I can whip up a plea for mercy, but Sigh is certainly not going to get in a fight over them without a really good reason, even if Broken Peace does. Note that Broken Peace getting his ass kicked and faintly glowing gold would be a good reason.
- Location
- The end of all things
I'll have my social attempt up in the morning(<10 hours).
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
Holy....yeah.
@Anasurimbor , you rolled a spectacular 18 successes! That's....yeah, 20 dice, rerolling 1's (which netted you two successes) and lucky dice.
Of course, quite fortunately, threshold successes just don't matter as much with social influence.
So, actual mechanics here:
The Dragonblood has a Resolve of 4. Thanks to Excellency, this goes up to 6.
Because your argument is opposed by a Major Intimacy, this resolve increase to 9. Thanks to Undaunted Dragon Hero, this raises to 10.
However, your argument is also supported by a Defining Intimacy, so this goes down to 7.
You targeted a Defining Intimacy, which allows Life-Changing tasks. This is easily enough, obviously.
Opposing the Social Influence would require the Dragonblood to go into a Decision Point, this would require another Defining Intimacy.
At any rate, the Dragonblood is convinced to stand down for now. Good job
Though to be fair I was tempted to just render the whole thing inapplicable because she doesn't see those people as untained, and so her Intimacy doesn't apply here. But an argument can be made that you're trying to convince her that they can be saved regardless - made "untained" again - even though it wasn't the main thrust of your argument. And I didn't want to slow the game down too much either, and liked your post so eh, slightly different outcome than you may have intended but whatever.
@Anasurimbor , you rolled a spectacular 18 successes! That's....yeah, 20 dice, rerolling 1's (which netted you two successes) and lucky dice.
Of course, quite fortunately, threshold successes just don't matter as much with social influence.
So, actual mechanics here:
The Dragonblood has a Resolve of 4. Thanks to Excellency, this goes up to 6.
Because your argument is opposed by a Major Intimacy, this resolve increase to 9. Thanks to Undaunted Dragon Hero, this raises to 10.
However, your argument is also supported by a Defining Intimacy, so this goes down to 7.
You targeted a Defining Intimacy, which allows Life-Changing tasks. This is easily enough, obviously.
Opposing the Social Influence would require the Dragonblood to go into a Decision Point, this would require another Defining Intimacy.
At any rate, the Dragonblood is convinced to stand down for now. Good job
Though to be fair I was tempted to just render the whole thing inapplicable because she doesn't see those people as untained, and so her Intimacy doesn't apply here. But an argument can be made that you're trying to convince her that they can be saved regardless - made "untained" again - even though it wasn't the main thrust of your argument. And I didn't want to slow the game down too much either, and liked your post so eh, slightly different outcome than you may have intended but whatever.
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FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
It is not, metaphysically. There's no real "death-taint" that actually damages you, unless you count people in ancestor cults being more likely to leave ghosts behind.
But the Immaculate Doctrine teaches that Ancestor Cults are bad.
It also teaches that you earn your place in life for your next reincarnation, and that people slowly move upward that path towards a better life.
In her branch of the Immaculate Doctrine, collaborating with heresy (Ancestor Cults, Demon Worship etc.) taints your soul, and in order for it to be cleansed of that taint you have to start on the bottom rung of that ladder again, and redo the whole path. That's obviously a tragic fate. She also sees it as somewhat infections, so this whole thing was basically a quarantine action in her eyes.
None of this is actually true, but then again quite a bit about Immaculate Doctrine isn't after all.
Sooo....essentially, she has just remanded the survivors of an ancestor cult into your custody. This being a Satrapy and her having some official power, this is a legal arrangement and so on. Basically, it'll result in those people being prisoner-slaves for a set duration.
Normally, they'd be released after that, but she has clearly stated that she'll kill them afterwards unless you can convince her that they're "pure".
Since her views are not backed by any metaphysical reality, you basically have no way of doing so except social influence. Basically, reform those people - and then convince her that they're actually "pure" again. Which'll only work if none of them engage in ancestor worship anymore etc.
Mechanically, you've just gained some Followers.
About 10 of them. I'd like to split them into two groups, assigning each group an "area of expertise" in which it's members have two dots. So you could get some Bodyguards (Melee) and some Occultists, or some Craftsmen and some Cult Organizers (Larceny).
Sucal
Forced to return
Well I'm biased, I wouldn't say no to a few occult trained assistants, while Silver Sigh could do with some bodyguards (I've got elemental plans, but that will take a while.)
What race are they out of curiosity? (Mostly to work around Broken Peace and his desire to advance his own people)
What race are they out of curiosity? (Mostly to work around Broken Peace and his desire to advance his own people)
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
Sorry, apparently I entirely forgot to mention it:
This village is primarily populated by Izhalvi (there are some others because of caravans and such), and as such all the people in question here are Izhalvi too.
This village is primarily populated by Izhalvi (there are some others because of caravans and such), and as such all the people in question here are Izhalvi too.
- Location
- The end of all things
Truly, the Sun shines his blessing upon this endeavor. Free full excellencies are terrific things. Such effortless power...
The actual roll was total overkill, though. In the absence of a non-charm bonus to resolve, a DB literally cannot raise their resolve high enough to resist that many successes.
Though why only 20 dice? Did you just stop out of mercy at that point?
That is very much a good thing. Social influence is already perilously close to rocket tag in some ways. The main reason to get a giant pool(other than for certain charms) is to reduce the risk of failure.
That was actually my original intent, I just never quite got around to reworking that bit. I'm pretty sure she wasn't angling to get control over them, though.
Well, the contagious bit might be somewhat true, but no more than anything else.
Is that pick one of the two pairs or pick any two of four?
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
Pick any two abilities.
You'll get two small Follower 1 groups (4-5 people each). Each will be good in one of the abilities picked.
The picks should obviously be something based around their membership in a cult.
One combat skill is fine, they might just be some guards who survived.
Performance makes obvious sense for Prayer.
Occult is also obvious if they had accumulated knowledge about Ghosts.
Larceny or Bureaucracy if they organized things for the cult (because Larceny can also cover "secret organizations").
Or something else if you have a nice idea.
You don't have to pick either, if in doubt I can just pick myself. But allowing you to pick seems like a good idea, and allows you to work it into your post, so there we go.
You'll get two small Follower 1 groups (4-5 people each). Each will be good in one of the abilities picked.
The picks should obviously be something based around their membership in a cult.
One combat skill is fine, they might just be some guards who survived.
Performance makes obvious sense for Prayer.
Occult is also obvious if they had accumulated knowledge about Ghosts.
Larceny or Bureaucracy if they organized things for the cult (because Larceny can also cover "secret organizations").
Or something else if you have a nice idea.
You don't have to pick either, if in doubt I can just pick myself. But allowing you to pick seems like a good idea, and allows you to work it into your post, so there we go.
- Location
- The end of all things
Free background dots! This reminds of just how unequal those can be. The absolute best example of that is how Resources 3 = 50x Resources 2.
If they are legally slaves, arming any warriors would be extremely problematic under local law and custom. Regardless, I'm currently leaning towards occultists and organizers, though Performance is also tempting.
This is making me wonder about the Lore training charms. First Knowledge's Grace is either fairly useful for teaching mortals or a niche speedbump depending on how broadly you define penalties. I can see it either way, though I must admit I prefer the former. I had initially written off Flowing Mind Prana as rather worthless before E3, or E2 at the very minimum, but looking at it again it appears as though you roll number of XP you have spent on that charm ever, not merely that story. Searching around, that certainly seems to be a common interpretation, but it's not entirely clear. Any thoughts?
Anyway, I'll try to have my post finished in the morning.
If they are legally slaves, arming any warriors would be extremely problematic under local law and custom. Regardless, I'm currently leaning towards occultists and organizers, though Performance is also tempting.
This is making me wonder about the Lore training charms. First Knowledge's Grace is either fairly useful for teaching mortals or a niche speedbump depending on how broadly you define penalties. I can see it either way, though I must admit I prefer the former. I had initially written off Flowing Mind Prana as rather worthless before E3, or E2 at the very minimum, but looking at it again it appears as though you roll number of XP you have spent on that charm ever, not merely that story. Searching around, that certainly seems to be a common interpretation, but it's not entirely clear. Any thoughts?
Anyway, I'll try to have my post finished in the morning.
Sucal
Forced to return
Yeah, resources really should be on a ten point scale, rather then a five point.
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
Well, the sequence goes like this:
You commit X XP, then spend Y (where Y<X) XP on training someone. Z equals (all Y combined). You can also end the charm at each time, regaining any X but keeping your pool of Z.
At the end of each story, you roll Z. All successes (Zsux) from that roll give you XP (ZXP, but your XP gained from this may never be larger than Z.
You may use Solar Experience for X (and therefore Y), but your regain from Z is in normal XP.
If you have Tireless Learner Method, you also gain an additional option:
Each time you roll Z, you may spend 1 XP. That XP is NOT added to Z - but now, you keep all experience granted by the roll, even if ZXP>Z.
Example:
You commit 10 solarXP. You then teach some peasant (or a Circlemate) Medicine 3, costing you 9 out of those 10 solarXP and raising your "spent pool" to 9. You can now end Flowing Mind Prana, giving you 1 solarXP back.
With Legendary Scholars Curiculum and Essence 2, you could instead teach a large class. Two of that would become full-blown doctors (Medicine 3), while the other ten could still learn Medicine 1. Or you spend the full 10 XP, still granting the two doctors Medicine 3, but the others Medicine 2 (costing 5 XP, half of those 10 XP). This does not alter your "spent pool" in any way though.
After you're done with teaching the Medicine, you teach them some Bureaucracy. You only commit 6 solarXP - enough to bring two of them up to Bureaucracy 2, and the other ten to Bureaucracy 1. Since you spent 6 solarXP, this brings your entire "spent pool" to 16.
Now the story ends. You roll 16 dice, and get 8 successes. Thus, you gain 8 XP.
Now, let's end another story. You still roll 16 dice, but this time you get 10 successes - however, you only get 8 XP since you're limited by your "spent pool".
If another story ends now, you'd still get to roll 16 dice, but could not possibly gain any XP from it (since you're already at cap). If you however spend another 10 XP to teach someone, this brings your pool up to 26. You'd roll 26 dice, but get at most 10 more XP.
Now you learn Tireless Learner Method. Another story ends. You spend 1 XP to activate the charm, and roll the 26 dice. You get to re-roll all non-successes too, so lets say you get 20 successes. This means you get 20 XP (!!), though they will likely not contribute to raising your Essence.
Yeah, this gets insane pretty fast. Especially since nothing prevents you from using the XP you get back from the charm to activate the charm again.
If we assume an average of 4 sessions to the story, this is what a Twilight Loremasters XP-progression could look like:
Supernal Lore, Lore 5, and 5 charm purchases on the Teaching-charms. Allowing them to teach Solar Charms to other solars.
In the first two sessions, they get 8 solarXP. That is promptly spent on teaching a circlemate one charm. In the next two, they gain that much SolarXP again and spend them on teaching a circlemate another charm. The story ends, and they roll 16 dice, gaining 8 XP which they can spend on a Solar charm.
Over the next four sessions, the pool is brought up to 32 and they potentially taught another two charms to circlemates just from their own solarXP. Rolling normally would give them 16 XP, or in other words to Solar Charms.
They are now at 64 XP - enough for Essence 2, while their circlemates are still at 40 XP.
We go with another four sessions, and another two charms taught, and now a pool of (24/48). Rolling normally would give 24 XP - but they instead decide to activate Tireles Learner Method. So they gain 36 successes and thus 36 XP (-1 for the activation) - enough for four solar charms. Instead
Their pool is now at (60/48), with their XP are at 108. Their circlemates have caught up to Essence 2.
Another four sessions, same thing. Pool is at (60/64). Story ends, TLM, they get 48 XP - enough for six solar charms. Their XP is at 144, they're Essence 3 now while their Circlemates are still at 80 and thus Essence 2.
Again, with pool (145/80). Gain 60 XP. Their XP is at 180, circlemates at 100 (not even Essence 3 yet).
Again, with pool (205/96). Gain 72 XP. Their XP is at 216 - Essence 4, circlemates are still Essence 2 with 120 xp!
So yes, that's some pretty insane stuff. Buut we haven't even gone recursive yet! What if all the regained XP is spent on teaching again and use TLM sooner??
All earned SolarXP goes to teaching (so 16 XP/4 sessions). All re-gained XP goes to teaching too. Use own SolarXP to learn charms to teach to circlemates.
Session 4: Pool is (8/24) because we re-invested those 8 XP into teaching.
Session 8: Pool is (38/70). Roll 40 with TLM, gain 30 XP. Reinvest that into teaching, bring the pool to 70
Session 12: Pool is (102/150). Roll 86 with TLM, gain 64 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 150
Session 16: Pool is at (228/290). Roll 168 with TLM, gain 126 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 290.
Session 20: Pool is at (456/534). Roll 306 with TLM, gain 228 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 534.
Session 24: Pool is at (868/912). Roll 550 with TLM, gain 412 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 912.
Session 28: Pool is at (1837/1624). Roll 928 with TLM, gain 696 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 1624.
Yeah, that's...., here, you reach Essence 2 after 5 sessions, Essence 3 after 10 sessions, Essence 4 after 12 sessions, and Essence 5 before 16 sessions are over. While the normal progression is Essence 2 (10 sessions), Essence 3 (25 sessions), Essence 4 (40 sessions) and Essence 5 (60 sessions). You're essence 5 before your circlemates are even Essence 3. Granted, you could also theoretically teach them every single charm you yourself know, to all of them - looking at your pool by Session 28, you taught them 1624 XP worth of charms, abilities or attributes. I kinda doubt whether you could even possibly have that much to teach.
At this point, if you stop reiterating and just reap the XP you gain for yourself - well, a single story will now grant you 1254 XP. That's more than your Circlemates have earned in their entire lifetime (228), together (1152). That's enough to learn any non-favored ability at 5 (31 XP) and learn all it's charms (30 charms at 10 XP each =300 XP) - three times. You'll have mastered every ability, learned all its charms, raised all your attributes to 5, bought all merits, mastered all martial arts and learned all spells quite shortly, I suspect.
So yeah, either this is badly designed or people are misreading the charm (in which case it is badly written).
You commit X XP, then spend Y (where Y<X) XP on training someone. Z equals (all Y combined). You can also end the charm at each time, regaining any X but keeping your pool of Z.
At the end of each story, you roll Z. All successes (Zsux) from that roll give you XP (ZXP, but your XP gained from this may never be larger than Z.
You may use Solar Experience for X (and therefore Y), but your regain from Z is in normal XP.
If you have Tireless Learner Method, you also gain an additional option:
Each time you roll Z, you may spend 1 XP. That XP is NOT added to Z - but now, you keep all experience granted by the roll, even if ZXP>Z.
Example:
You commit 10 solarXP. You then teach some peasant (or a Circlemate) Medicine 3, costing you 9 out of those 10 solarXP and raising your "spent pool" to 9. You can now end Flowing Mind Prana, giving you 1 solarXP back.
With Legendary Scholars Curiculum and Essence 2, you could instead teach a large class. Two of that would become full-blown doctors (Medicine 3), while the other ten could still learn Medicine 1. Or you spend the full 10 XP, still granting the two doctors Medicine 3, but the others Medicine 2 (costing 5 XP, half of those 10 XP). This does not alter your "spent pool" in any way though.
After you're done with teaching the Medicine, you teach them some Bureaucracy. You only commit 6 solarXP - enough to bring two of them up to Bureaucracy 2, and the other ten to Bureaucracy 1. Since you spent 6 solarXP, this brings your entire "spent pool" to 16.
Now the story ends. You roll 16 dice, and get 8 successes. Thus, you gain 8 XP.
Now, let's end another story. You still roll 16 dice, but this time you get 10 successes - however, you only get 8 XP since you're limited by your "spent pool".
If another story ends now, you'd still get to roll 16 dice, but could not possibly gain any XP from it (since you're already at cap). If you however spend another 10 XP to teach someone, this brings your pool up to 26. You'd roll 26 dice, but get at most 10 more XP.
Now you learn Tireless Learner Method. Another story ends. You spend 1 XP to activate the charm, and roll the 26 dice. You get to re-roll all non-successes too, so lets say you get 20 successes. This means you get 20 XP (!!), though they will likely not contribute to raising your Essence.
Yeah, this gets insane pretty fast. Especially since nothing prevents you from using the XP you get back from the charm to activate the charm again.
If we assume an average of 4 sessions to the story, this is what a Twilight Loremasters XP-progression could look like:
Supernal Lore, Lore 5, and 5 charm purchases on the Teaching-charms. Allowing them to teach Solar Charms to other solars.
In the first two sessions, they get 8 solarXP. That is promptly spent on teaching a circlemate one charm. In the next two, they gain that much SolarXP again and spend them on teaching a circlemate another charm. The story ends, and they roll 16 dice, gaining 8 XP which they can spend on a Solar charm.
Over the next four sessions, the pool is brought up to 32 and they potentially taught another two charms to circlemates just from their own solarXP. Rolling normally would give them 16 XP, or in other words to Solar Charms.
They are now at 64 XP - enough for Essence 2, while their circlemates are still at 40 XP.
We go with another four sessions, and another two charms taught, and now a pool of (24/48). Rolling normally would give 24 XP - but they instead decide to activate Tireles Learner Method. So they gain 36 successes and thus 36 XP (-1 for the activation) - enough for four solar charms. Instead
Their pool is now at (60/48), with their XP are at 108. Their circlemates have caught up to Essence 2.
Another four sessions, same thing. Pool is at (60/64). Story ends, TLM, they get 48 XP - enough for six solar charms. Their XP is at 144, they're Essence 3 now while their Circlemates are still at 80 and thus Essence 2.
Again, with pool (145/80). Gain 60 XP. Their XP is at 180, circlemates at 100 (not even Essence 3 yet).
Again, with pool (205/96). Gain 72 XP. Their XP is at 216 - Essence 4, circlemates are still Essence 2 with 120 xp!
So yes, that's some pretty insane stuff. Buut we haven't even gone recursive yet! What if all the regained XP is spent on teaching again and use TLM sooner??
All earned SolarXP goes to teaching (so 16 XP/4 sessions). All re-gained XP goes to teaching too. Use own SolarXP to learn charms to teach to circlemates.
Session 4: Pool is (8/24) because we re-invested those 8 XP into teaching.
Session 8: Pool is (38/70). Roll 40 with TLM, gain 30 XP. Reinvest that into teaching, bring the pool to 70
Session 12: Pool is (102/150). Roll 86 with TLM, gain 64 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 150
Session 16: Pool is at (228/290). Roll 168 with TLM, gain 126 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 290.
Session 20: Pool is at (456/534). Roll 306 with TLM, gain 228 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 534.
Session 24: Pool is at (868/912). Roll 550 with TLM, gain 412 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 912.
Session 28: Pool is at (1837/1624). Roll 928 with TLM, gain 696 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 1624.
Yeah, that's...., here, you reach Essence 2 after 5 sessions, Essence 3 after 10 sessions, Essence 4 after 12 sessions, and Essence 5 before 16 sessions are over. While the normal progression is Essence 2 (10 sessions), Essence 3 (25 sessions), Essence 4 (40 sessions) and Essence 5 (60 sessions). You're essence 5 before your circlemates are even Essence 3. Granted, you could also theoretically teach them every single charm you yourself know, to all of them - looking at your pool by Session 28, you taught them 1624 XP worth of charms, abilities or attributes. I kinda doubt whether you could even possibly have that much to teach.
At this point, if you stop reiterating and just reap the XP you gain for yourself - well, a single story will now grant you 1254 XP. That's more than your Circlemates have earned in their entire lifetime (228), together (1152). That's enough to learn any non-favored ability at 5 (31 XP) and learn all it's charms (30 charms at 10 XP each =300 XP) - three times. You'll have mastered every ability, learned all its charms, raised all your attributes to 5, bought all merits, mastered all martial arts and learned all spells quite shortly, I suspect.
So yeah, either this is badly designed or people are misreading the charm (in which case it is badly written).