Denis Villeneuve's Dune

Yeah, it wouldn't be worth it, and there are way better actors for the role, but he wouldn't be the worst choice for it either.
 
bluntblade said:

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Uh this might be my visually illiterate STEM brain, but I don't see it? Like the gifs have totally different angles?

In the first the train is approaching from the top-right corner and moving diagonally to the bottom-left corner, clearly in a way that won't impact anyone and a dude casually strolls up to it. I'm not getting any sense of danger. For Dune, the camera is positioned directly behind the character, and it looks like the worm is coming straight at the viewpoint, ready to devour. What are the parallels other than "catching a ride"? I don't think that's an occurrence so rare in movies that it just happening is enough to be a callback/reference.

Obligatory no, I'm not aware of the context or whatever of the first, but in my experience when this sort of shot comparison happens it's visually obvious enough without additional context
 
You know, while I disagree with Villeneuve on some of his decisions, I ultimately like that he didn't delve too deeply into what mentats are, or why they don't use robots, or what's up with the Spacing Guod, or exactly what the Bene Gesserit are capable of. He still presents that stuff as is, but doesn't explain what he's showing you. I think that ended up adding to how alien this future culture ends up feeling. There are all these hidden rules, laws, and interests that you can tell are sliding around under the surface but you can't completely piece together with the information provided.
 
It's based on the idea of movie goers supposedly screaming and running out of the theater at the time because they were so blown away by the image of a train coming towards them, since this was one of the earliest films ever made. Whether or not this is actually true is another thing. I think the point is to make a gesture towards how far cinema has come in producing that same sense of scale and awe.

Otherwise yeah it's a bit of a reach.
 
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TellTaleTypist said:
It's based on the idea of movie goers supposedly screaming and running out of the theater at the time because they were so blown away by the image of a train coming towards them, since this was one of the earliest films ever made. Whether or not this is actually true is another thing. I think the point is to make a gesture towards how far cinema has come in producing that same sense of scale and awe.

Otherwise yeah it's a bit of a reach.
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For me it's also the sense of violence and Villeneuve's intention with the sound design. It doesn't sound like an animal, rather it's like some immense vehicle blasting past you.
 
Managed to finally watch it with a friend this weekend.

Went in with high expectations, and knew that I was in for beautiful piece of cinema, when the harkonnen soldiers floated that rock up, directly at the start.

10/10, love it to bits.

Also seeing Giedi Prime, I thought for a moment something like: "I get it, I too would become a bald, pale freak with murder on my mind."
It is amazing. Somehow they managed to suck the joy out of fire works, and make them fascist.
 
"E Rudhi Dina, heshidhanii... ne Lisan al Gaib!"-Hand of God as my witness... I am the Voice from the Outer World!)

There are certain scenes that elevate films from good to great-(Leap of Faith from Spiderverse being an apt example)-and the Tribal Gathering Scene is definitely there with it.
 
Reading Messiah and I do wonder what they might do for an adaptation. I assume that the sixteen-year-old girl's nude sword training won't make the cut, and suspect the same might befall the multiple arguments over artificial insemination. Actually the Jihad itself is only mentioned here, which I'm kind of surprised by despite how readily Herbert skipped past action the first time.
 
Man thinking back it really is hilarious that even the Bene Gesserit, with their plans measured in centuries and shit, didn't have a better backup Kwisatz Haderach than a psycho murderer rich boy who loves knives and is scared of women and their big hook is "we can use the fear of pussy to control him"
 
Arthur Frayn said:
Man thinking back it really is hilarious that even the Bene Gesserit, with their plans measured in centuries and shit, didn't have a better backup Kwisatz Haderach than a psycho murderer rich boy who loves knives and is scared of women and their big hook is "we can use the fear of pussy to control him"
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They didn't think they'd need a backup for another generation, Paul was supposed to be a girl and the Kwisatz Haderach was supposed to be her and the psycho's son.

The real hero in the story, the one who overturned their plans, the one thing they didn't count on, was Duke Leto asking Jessica if she could give him a male heir and her being deeply in love with him enough to say "sure thing, no problem" even though she was aware of The Plan. They were thus defeated by The Power Of Love, and the one who defeated them with such went to his deathbed totally unaware of the thousands of years of plans he had overturned.
 
Finally saw this and it got me with the goddamn Fremen flag scenes. Made me want to go follow my Messiah-Emperor into a bloody jihad on the galaxy, I tell you what.
 
Arthur Frayn said:
Man thinking back it really is hilarious that even the Bene Gesserit, with their plans measured in centuries and shit, didn't have a better backup Kwisatz Haderach than a psycho murderer rich boy who loves knives and is scared of women and their big hook is "we can use the fear of pussy to control him"
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I have to say, Messiah has me no clearer on what better future they expected the Kwizatz Haderach to lead them too (especially if he was to be the son of Feyd-Rautha, who doesn't seem like great dad material in either timeline, and a presumably miserable Pauline Atreides).

Also, while Herbert eschewed lots of opportunities to depict action and spectacle in the first book, he really doubles down on that in book 2 (except for some underage naked sword practice, of course). I appreciate that this is due to people reading Dune as an adventure story (confusing, given how abrupt action is in the book) but it gets to the point where this actively works against the book. There's no visceral depiction of the jihad, we get one veteran and some stats.
 
bluntblade said:
I have to say, Messiah has me no clearer on what better future they expected the Kwizatz Haderach to lead them too (especially if he was to be the son of Feyd-Rautha, who doesn't seem like great dad material in either timeline, and a presumably miserable Pauline Atreides).
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They expected that they would be able to control him to a greater degree, grooming him more for his eventual role. Ultimately they didn't have a good idea of what the actual future would be, largely because the whole point is that the Kwizatz Haderach would be able to see so much more than any of them could since he wouldn't have their blind spot.
 
Cosar said:
They expected that they would be able to control him to a greater degree, grooming him more for his eventual role. Ultimately they didn't have a good idea of what the actual future would be, largely because the whole point is that the Kwizatz Haderach would be able to see so much more than any of them could since he wouldn't have their blind spot.
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So it's just an assumption that he would want what they don't know they want yet, but they would want it?
 
bluntblade said:
So it's just an assumption that he would want what they don't know they want yet, but they would want it?
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An assumption backed by believing that they would have had influence over him for decades. Like, part of the point of Paul being a girl is that she could be trained as a Bene Gesserit in truth, and Feyud wouldn't have his uncle's hatred of the order.
 
Cosar said:
An assumption backed by believing that they would have had influence over him for decades. Like, part of the point of Paul being a girl is that she could be trained as a Bene Gesserit in truth, and Feyud wouldn't have his uncle's hatred of the order.
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And I guess they'd just figure out along the way what they were actually going to get.

Tbh this isn't so much of an issue in Dune but now I'm in Messiah I'm having more issues. Particularly now that it's a direct conflict between Paul and the Gesserit, Tleilaxu and the Guild.
 
stratigo said:
He might do an in between movie too before he gets to messiah
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I would expect so too. If nothing else, I think you'd want Paul visibly older.

But in terms of the substantive stuff, I imagine that we'd get a more visceral depiction of the Holy War's horrors. I can't see them having Jessica be wholly offscreen, but I wonder exactly how she might be used, ditto Chani. I particularly wonder which way things would go with Irulan (who, I have to say, gets what I think is a remarkably ungenerous depiction in Messiah).
 
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variety.com

‘Dune 2’ Nears $700 Million at Global Box Office

Box office sands continue to flow for "Dune: Part Two," which is nearing $700 million worldwide.
variety.com variety.com
Director Denis Villeneuve's sci-fi epic has grossed $276 million in North America and $419 million overseas, bringing its global tally to $695.8 million after eight weeks of release. It's an impressive benchmark in post-COVID times; only five movies in 2023, eight in 2022 and five in 2021 managed to cross the $700 million mark.

At this point, "Dune 2" is the highest-grossing movie of 2024 at the domestic and worldwide box office. Outside of the U.S. and Canada, the biggest markets are the U.K. ($48.8 million), China ($48.5 million), France ($42.6 million), Germany ($39.7 million) and Australia ($22.5 million).

... Warner Bros. and Legendary Entertainment co-produced and co-financed "Dune: Part Two," which cost $190 million to produce and roughly $100 million more to promote to global audiences.
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NonSequtur said:
Dune's capacity to make the Great Houses and their machines - Atriedes included - monolithic, alien and huge-feeling is probably the best thing about the film. Ornithoptors? Sick. Heighliners? Sick. That looming missile boat in the night? Sick. It all feels big and scary and great. Worth watching the movie just for that.
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Finally managed to go see Dune 2 and really, a lot of the things I said about Dune 1 still apply. The aesthetic is still fantastic - Geidi Prime, the crowds of worshippers, the Imperial Flagship - all brilliant. I don't understand what a black sun could possibly be but it looked sick. Whenever Dune wanted to go big, it worked.

There were a few times where it felt like the aesthetic was overpowering the real existence of the setting. Like, Sietch Tabr sometimes feels like it's an archeological dig site rather than a lived-in area - the scene when Jamis' body arrives is one that comes to mind, like. What is this room? Were all this people waiting, or were they just, standing around here doing... what? It felt too spontaneous to be ritual the way Jamis' recycling was, but also too bizarre and unnatural to be not. Similarly, the massive hallway Feyd-Rautha meets Lady Fenring in. I know (and love) that Geidi Prime is a nightmare planet but sometimes you really just go, okay, who wants to walk through the cyclopean tunnel to get to their bedroom? That's too much.

Somewhat relatedly, it felt like the movie played even looser with notions of martial concreteness. Dune 1 wasn't good at depicting the Slow Knife Penetrating The Shield, but Dune 2 seems even more inconsistent. Some fights where shields aren't present still end up being melee dominated. Some fights where shields are still have effective ranged fire and Very Fast Melee Attacks. I get that I'm probably more focused on this than the average filmgoer, but that first attack on a spicecrawler felt incredibly stupid, tactically. Nobody has shields! Just shoot them! You do it later!

Character-wise, I think basically all the female characters got done better than they did in the books except possibly Jessica. Early film Jessica feels too ill-at-ease and uncontrolled for a Bene Gesserit. Later film feels maybe a bit too creepy and uncaring? It's a very effective bit of contrast, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. Chani, Irulan, Fenring and the Reverend Mother all show out. (I'm not looking forward to St. Alia of the Baron Harkonnen in Dune Messiah, if it gets made, but I doubt that they'd change the story that dramatically to avert it even if they gave Chani a quite different ending for now. Give us God-Empress of Dune you cowards.)

Stilgar and Gurney both serve as very effective prods for Paul - the 'I Believe' scene was great. Paul works well, but I think maybe suffers from how there was actually no timeskip. Which feels odd because until I realized Jessica was still pregnant I actually thought it was a very well-executed timeskip, so it's not like adding those years would have broken anything. To a lesser extent the lack of exposition probably renders his whole deal much more confusing. Of the antagonists, they're all great, except possibly Feyd. I'm just. Not sure what to make of him, frankly. He's not much of a character, and maybe I'm expecting too much of him.

All in all, probably worth watching for the aesthetic alone, but not a perfect film, and I'm even more dubious on how it lands for people who don't know the books. On the other hand, maybe the vibe is strong enough to overcome all confusion.
 
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