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Class War Never Changes: A Fallout Quest in Pre-War China

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TheInnerMoon said:
Albanian Expedition [Fraternal]: When the EC and UAR had their atomic exchange, one nation stood firm amidst the chaos. No, not Yugoslavia, that hive of rightist revisionism. Rather, it was Albania, still guided by the forthright principles of Enver Hoxha Thought. Since then, however, we have heard frightfully little from this bastion of European socialism; even their ambassador has lost all contact with her country of origin. If we encourage the PLA to organize an expedition to Albania, we can learn more about its present troubles, and about how the nation has managed its proximity to an atomic exclusion zone. (DC 60)
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I would like to point out something I missed earlier, the expedition to Albania will be organized/carried out by the PLA. Not only will it come back with hard evidence of the effects of a nuclear exchange, and what methods worked vs. what didn't for the survivors, it will also come back with eyewitness testimony from our armed forces of what a nuclear wasteland looks like. What better way to convince the generals who'd have to carry out the seizure of Alaska of the risk that entails than the reports given by their own men?
 
Doctor Elsewhere said:
I would like to point out something I missed earlier, the expedition to Albania will be organized/carried out by the PLA. Not only will it come back with hard evidence of the effects of a nuclear exchange, and what methods worked vs. what didn't for the survivors, it will also come back with eyewitness testimony from our armed forces of what a nuclear wasteland looks like. What better way to convince the generals who'd have to carry out the seizure of Alaska of the risk that entails than the reports given by their own men?
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I think it's not that they are underestimating the threat of nuclear war rather they are underestimating the response of the US.

Apparently China on this quest seize Siberia from the USSR, another nuclear power, and install a puppet regime all without war, since the characters are yet to mention a Sino-Soviet War over the issue. I think a lot of Party members think the Anchorage seizure will go in a similar veins, specially since the US don't need that much oil anyway to sustain themselves so there's not a lot of incentive for them to wage a costly war on the extreme climate of Alaska.

They severe underestimated how far the US, more accurately the Enclace, was willing to go to not give China, and anyone else for that matter, a single drop of they oil.

Edit: desperation may also play a part since in Fallout 3 manual, China's oil rigs in the Pacific were sabotaged thus Alaska become the only viable alternative to replenish losses since they would have no time to repair them without the PRC collapse.
 
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Soberan 123 said:
Apparently China on this quest seize Siberia from the USSR, another nuclear power, and install a puppet regime all without war, since the characters are yet to mention a Sino-Soviet War over the issue. I think a lot of Party members think the Anchorage seizure will go in a similar veins, specially since the US don't need that much oil anyway to sustain themselves so there's not a lot of incentive for them to wage a costly war on the extreme climate of Alaska.
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Siberian Oil Exploration [Energy] [Fraternal]: While the Party would never admit it, our recent intervention in the Soviet succession crisis was at least partly motivated by the USSR's abundant petrochemical resources. However, despite the ensconcement of our legitimist allies in oil-rich Siberia, the subsequent increase in fossil fuel supply has still proven insufficient to our needs. We must therefore sponsor an aggressive program of oil and gas exploration in the region, including a focus on more unconventional or marginal deposits. The only alternative is a further deepening of our energy crisis. (300, 50 ongoing, one year)
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This action indicates that we got Siberia by backing an already existing faction during a succession crisis/civil war in the USSR, which would explain a lack of a Sino-Soviet War to deal with. Alaska by contrast will be a seizure/occupation of a nominally less divided/distracted country. So I don't think that the party expects it to be similarly bloodless, but I agree that they probably don't expect the USA to launch all their missiles and end the world over a resource they no longer need.

To quote Educate the Cadres:
Educate the Cadres: It has come to your attention that the lower ranks of party members do not fully comprehend the dangers of a nuclear exchange. Many of them still think that such a conflict would be no more intense than a conventional total war, an attitude which could cause them to support various unwise policies. A degree of reeducation is therefore advisable; even if this might increase the risk of panic and disorder, the results of an overly confrontational stance could be far worse. (DC 70) (Risk of Political Support Loss)
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The issue isn't that the party thinks that war won't happen, it's that they think they can endure a nuclear exchange like they would any other industrial total war. The Albanian Expedition will illustrate just what enduring a nuclear exchange means. Even if Alaska were to only result in a limited nuclear exchange, they should still hesitate to follow through given what that will entail for the areas target by nuclear weapons.

And if they want to argue that seizing Alaska is still worth it, they'll have a much harder time convincing people than they would if they were arguing against rhetoric alone. Likely having to allocate much greater resources to us in order to assuage the concerns we raised at minimum.
 
Doctor Elsewhere said:
So I don't think that the party expects it to be similarly bloodless, but I agree that they probably don't expect the USA to launch all their missiles and end the world over a resource they no longer need.
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Honeslty that was very foolish of them since they didn't figure out the response wouldn't be about the resources but more ideologically bent which would make America more likely to fight it out. After all Fallout America is very anti-communist and thus can't allow a communist nation to seize their land or resources.
 
KingCrimson1081 said:
Honeslty that was very foolish of them since they didn't figure out the response wouldn't be about the resources but more ideologically bent which would make America more likely to fight it out. After all Fallout America is very anti-communist and thus can't allow a communist nation to seize their land or resources.
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Wouldn't be the first time a communist nation underestimated the USA's bloodthirstiness. The Cuban Missile Crisis came about due to the USSR figuring that stationing missiles in Cuba (at Cuba's request) would be considered quid-pro-quo for the USA stationing missiles in Turkey. The Soviets were very surprised at the response it caused (the Cubans less so, as this was part of the reason why they wanted nuclear missiles in the first place.)
 
Doctor Elsewhere said:
This action indicates that we got Siberia by backing an already existing faction during a succession crisis/civil war in the USSR, which would explain a lack of a Sino-Soviet War to deal with. Alaska by contrast will be a seizure/occupation of a nominally less divided/distracted country. So I don't think that the party expects it to be similarly bloodless, but I agree that they probably don't expect the USA to launch all their missiles and end the world over a resource they no longer need.
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Actually lot of people don't realize but there's autonomous republics in Russia even during Soviet times that was given self-rule by Lenin, the amount of influence Moscow has varies from time to time but in recent times Putin is doing his best to erase any shred of autonomous rules these regions have in the past.

So a succession crisis in Russia would probably come about these autonomous regions try to break away of the Soviet Union and Russia.

KingCrimson1081 said:
Honeslty that was very foolish of them since they didn't figure out the response wouldn't be about the resources but more ideologically bent which would make America more likely to fight it out. After all Fallout America is very anti-communist and thus can't allow a communist nation to seize their land or resources.
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We don't know what lead China trying to seize Anchorage, Fallout 3 manual imply desperation play a part since the PRC just lost the Pacific Oil Rigs from sabotage so either the nation collapse from the lack of oil or they try Alaska. Dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.

Even without the Oil Gang here if something were to happen to the existent petrochemical industry right now, that we still are very reliant, Anchorage would suddenly become the only path to survival since there would be no time to replace the infrastructure before the country collapse.

Doctor Elsewhere said:
Wouldn't be the first time a communist nation underestimated the USA's bloodthirstiness. The Cuban Missile Crisis came about due to the USSR figuring that stationing missiles in Cuba (at Cuba's request) would be considered quid-pro-quo for the USA stationing missiles in Turkey. The Soviets were very surprised at the response it caused (the Cubans less so, as this was part of the reason why they wanted nuclear missiles in the first place.)
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Also remember there's the Enclave to take in consideration, we don't know how long the Deep State existed in the US but is a good estimate they have risen at some point before the Sino-American War. In fact is well in they power to have provoked China into war so they can start implement more authoritarian policies.

In another note, I think people are banking there going to be a lot of oil in Siberia to stave off the Anchorage offensive but I really find suspicious the USSR have not try to pick a fight with China over the region when the intervention happened. I mean the world is in the middle of a Resource Wars and holding critical resources is a must even if only to use as bargaining chip so is very suspicious the lack of a strong response.

Actually @TheInnerMoon how large is the People's Republic of Siberia?
 
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[X] Too Little, Too Late
[X] Plan: We're (Not) the Ministers Who Don't Do Anything
 
Soberan 123 said:
Actually @TheInnerMoon how large is the People's Republic of Siberia?
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I imagine the China-aligned faction (which still claims the USSR as a whole) only controls Siberia up to Omsk or Novosibirsk. So a big chunk of territory, but a small part of the Soviet population and industrial base. Which is why they're your puppet.
 
Solar and wind are priorities to me. It may be insufficient for the needs of China now, but it's unmatched in it's post war viability.
And the post war is what we're all about.
 
Jane Dough said:
Solar and wind are priorities to me. It may be insufficient for the needs of China now, but it's unmatched in it's post war viability.
And the post war is what we're all about.
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If there was not a deadline for Aptitude test, Backup Generator would probably be chosen. It will be good for Post-War China but not so much for to offer a viable alternative for oil.

Crude Fusion is probably the get go in order to start fixing the energy crisis, also the Innovation Offensive is another good plan to take to open new energy projects.
 
[X] Plan: A Shock To The System

Doc convinced me
 
TheInnerMoon said:
Zhang Lifeng: Complete Auxiliary Robotics before the end of 2070
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Since the Auxiliary Robotics research take 2 turns to be completed the maximum we can delay the funding of this project is until 2069H2, since the research takes eighteen months to be completed and need to be finished before 2070H2, provided nothing changes the timeline since is possible Zhang can change the mind later on.
 
I'll probably call the vote in a bit, since Shock to the System has a good lead. If you want to do something about that, vote now!
 
Alright, that's enough of that, time for some dice!
Scheduled vote count started by TheInnerMoon on Jul 10, 2024 at 9:14 PM, finished with 47 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] Plan: A Shock To The System
    -[X] Construction or The Third Phase of the Project to Ensure Continuance of the Revolutionary Struggle Post-Annihilation
    --[X] Hydroelectric Hardening [Energy]: Henan (0->300/750)
    --[X] Nuclear Intensification [Energy]: Sichuan (0->350/900)
    --[X] Ministry University: Hunan (300->750/750)
    -[X] Research or The Project to Renewably Strengthen the People's Republic from Black Gold Gang Wrecking
    --[X] Cuban Biofuels [Energy] [Fraternal] (0->300/300)
    --[X] Siberian Oil Exploration [Energy] [Fraternal] (0->225/225)
    --[X] 90R leftover
    -[X] Mobilization or The Campaign Leading the Masses in Communally Conscious Activity
    --[X] Ideological Aptitude Tests (0->500/400)
    --[X] Shock Labor Battalions [Labor]: Hydroelectric Hardening Time Reduction (0->100/90)
    --[X] Shock Labor Battalions [Labor]: Nuclear Intensification Time Reduction (0->100/90)
    -[X] Politics
    --[X] Albanian Expedition [Fraternal] 3 dice
    [X] Plan: We're (Not) the Ministers Who Don't Do Anything
    -[X] Construction or The Third Phase of the Project to Ensure Continuance of the Revolutionary Struggle Post-Annihilation
    --[X] Hydroelectric Hardening [Energy]: Henan (0->350/750)
    --[X] Nuclear Intensification [Energy]: Sichuan (0->300/900)
    --[X] Ministry University: Hunan (300->750/750)
    -[X] Research or The Project to Renewably Strengthen the People's Republic from Black Gold Gang Wrecking
    --[X] Cuban Biofuels [Energy] [Fraternal] (0->300/300)
    --[X] Siberian Oil Exploration [Energy] [Fraternal] (0->225/225)
    --[X] 90R leftover
    -[X] Mobilization or The Campaign Leading the Masses in Communally Conscious Activity
    --[X] Ideological Aptitude Tests (0->500/400)
    --[X] Shock Labor Battalions [Labor]: Hydroelectric Hardening Time Reduction (0->100/90)
    --[X] Shock Labor Battalions [Labor]: Nuclear Intensification Time Reduction (0->100/90)
    -[X] Politics
    --[X] Educate the Cadres 3d
    [X] Too Little, Too Late
    [X] Too Little, Too Late
    -[X] Construction
    -[X] Nuclear Intensification [Energy]: Sichuan (0-->350/900)
    -[X] Hydroelectric Hardening [Energy]: Henan (0-->300/750)
    --[X] Ministry University: Hunan (300->750/750)
    -[X] Research
    --[X] Cuban Biofuels [Energy] [Fraternal] (0->300/300)
    --[X] Siberian Oil Exploration [Energy] [Fraternal] (0->225/225)
    --[X] Fengshui Innovation Offensive [Energy]: (0-->90/450)
    -[X] Mobilization
    --[X] Shock Labor Battalions [Labor]: Nuclear Intensification Time Reduction (0->100/90)
    --[X] Shock Labor Battalions [Labor]: Hydroeletric Hardening Time Reduction (0-->100/90)
    --[X] Ideological Aptitude Tests (0->500/400)
    -[X] Politics
    --[X] Set a Ministerial Labor Standard: 3D
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Rolling time:
TheInnerMoon threw 3 100-faced dice. Reason: Construction and Research Total: 105
56 56 38 38 11 11
TheInnerMoon threw 6 100-faced dice. Reason: Mobilization and Politics Total: 270
6 6 8 8 23 23 65 65 82 82 86 86
 
In hindsight, I'm curious why you put all your eggs in one basket on the political front. Especially because there's plenty of options where I let you ask for more funds outright. But alright, Albania it is!
 
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