On the surviving media talk I can see manga esque comics being a popular form of media in the coming decades. Since they'd be relatively cheap and easy to produce form of media.
Maybe something like Japanese Kamishibai shows might appear.
On the surviving media talk I can see manga esque comics being a popular form of media in the coming decades. Since they'd be relatively cheap and easy to produce form of media.
Maybe something like Japanese Kamishibai shows might appear.
yeah with printing being pretty likely to be formed or already forming. Comics and Manga would definitely play a center stage in media. Also I think that many popular video game characters could easily remain prevalent in the future even with the lack of those games being able to be made
yeah with printing being pretty likely to be formed or already forming. Comics and Manga would definitely play a center stage in media. Also I think that many popular video game characters could easily remain prevalent in the future even with the lack of those games being able to be made
Kratos would be controversial because someone will draw/write him killing Ra or some other Bronze Age 'god'
Samus would be interesting because she is a Gene-Enhanced female. The idea and some knowledge of gene-enhancement would exist. Much harder to be misogynistic when there are plenty of women engineered to be tougher than Navy Seals
Persona would be banned in many areas. Imagine if Sataniel used a giant gun to kill the Abrahamic 'god' or Ra
Since the act of writing itself had sacred connotations in several Bronze Age civilizations, even just a primitive, Gutenberg-esque printing press would be the cultural equivalent of a nuke anywhere from the Nile to the Euphrates; the downtimers will not mistake it for magic, since they'd be able to wrap their heads around the concept quite easily, if they're familiar with looms, stencils and the like, but being able to do the job of a scribe in a fraction of the time, while making several copies of any bureaucratic or sacred text available in the region, now that'd be a threat to the power of the priestly castes, for sure.
Not to mention how the uptimers would salivate at the thought of being able to write down previously lost documents or epics.
Since the act of writing itself had sacred connotations in several Bronze Age civilizations, even just a primitive, Gutenberg-esque printing press would be the cultural equivalent of a nuke anywhere from the Nile to the Euphrates; the downtimers will not mistake it for magic, since they'd be able to wrap their heads around the concept quite easily, if they're familiar with looms, stencils and the like, but being able to do the job of a scribe in a fraction of the time, while making several copies of any bureaucratic or sacred text available in the region, now that'd be a threat to the power of the priestly castes, for sure.
Not to mention how the uptimers would salivate at the thought of being able to write down previously lost documents or epics.
A lot of lost or broken languages will be modernized and recorded this time around
The priests are done unless they accept the new status quo quickly
Armies blessed by prayers and rituals are brutally massacred by armies using mass-produced high-quality steel armor, improvized napalm, breech-loading rifles, grenades, airships and cannons
Warfare like all other areas post-Event are dominated by Science not Supersititious Beliefs
True though I think that some will eventually use it to their advantage out of pragmatism
Armies blessed by prayers and rituals are brutally massacred by armies using mass-produced high-quality steel armor, improvized napalm, breech-loading rifles, grenades, airships and cannons
Warfare like all other areas post-Event are dominated by Science not Supersititious Beliefs
Superstition and spiritual beliefs aren't going away. Yes there will be an increase focus on scientific innovation but I doubt beliefs in the supernatural will decline let alone religion
I can see this being prevalent which is a good thing
True though I think that some will eventually use it to their advantage out of pragmatism
Superstition and spiritual beliefs aren't going away. Yes there will be an increase focus on scientific innovation but I doubt beliefs in the supernatural will decline let alone religion
Overtime it will especially as science/rationalism conflicts with religion again and again with greater occurence in and out of the battlefield
Everytime a few newly recruited soldiers armed with guns kill hundreds or thousands of enemy old-school veterans blessed by 'gods' in just minutes it puts another dent in that religion and religious institutions
Like in one scenario that has happened multiple times in this Timeline:
-Americans or Modernized Natives have a surplus of food but not enough to feed both neighboring Native tribes
-One tribe is Liberal and Forward thinking while the other is Extremely Religiously Closeminded
-The surplus food is traded at a discount to the first tribe resulting in it prospering. The other tribe starves to death
It doesn't though. Again religion has co-existed with science for at least a millennium if not longer in many cultures. Why would it not remain prevalent
Everytime a few newly recruited soldiers armed with guns kill hundreds or thousands of enemy old-school veterans blessed by 'gods' in just minutes it puts another dent in that religion and religious institutions
While more right wing groups and bandits during the collapse made an effort to destroy Tucson's Jewish community, particularly the more visible Orthodox members, these efforts would encounter stiff resistance, leading to most of the more opportunistic bandits to back off and focus on targets that were more likely to have greater resources on hand.
Still, between the chaos surrounding the Event and the starvation many faced in the months after meant that by the end of 1 A.E, only 4,000 out of the 22,000 Jewish people that lived in Tucson were left alive. With most ending up in what would become New Washington, Rome, and Alashiya, with smaller groups in many other countries.
While the Event did create some theological issues, the overwhelming majority of the surviving Jewish population follows mainstream thought on the matter, though it is a popular subject of debate in many circles, the past cannot be altered, the Event simply placed them in a new timeline.
Notable Anti-semtism among Uptimer nations is relatively rare, save for obvious exceptions such as Rhodes and to a lesser extent New Monthan and the NAR, though there have been incidents. In 13 A.E the Kingdom of Alashiya was beset by scandal when it was revealed that extremist members of the Right Faction political party were drawing up plans to deport much of the Kingdom's Jewish population in an effort to remove what they saw as a hostile voting demographic. These efforts were exposed and led to the Right Faction suffering badly in elections later that year, along several of the ringleaders behind the plans being forced out of office or in some cases driven off the island entirely. Nevertheless this would lead to a fair number of jewish families leaving the Alashiya in the years that followed, with most settling in Rome.
A few noises have been made over the years of organizing efforts similar to what the Mormons have done and create a religious state of their own, perhaps even conquering the lands of Canaan and building a new Israel. None of these efforts have gone anywhere though.
Most were keenly aware that the surviving Jewish population was rather scattered and would struggle to muster any sort of large numbers. Not to mention any expedition would have to fight Egypt for control of the region, a daunting prospect even for large states.
What most discouraged these efforts was Canaan itself. As the ill-fated Reynolds expedition had discovered, the area was hundreds of years removed from anything in the Hebrew Bible, Rusalim bore little resemblance to Jerusalem and from all accounts even the Habiru people were now terrified by the prospect of another American invasion. While the idea of founding a Jewish state in the Levant had some appeal among more conservative elements and the very small number of Israeli citizens who had been in Tucson at the time, most within the community see such an effort as nothing more than an invasion that would be doomed to fail.
That doesn't mean the Old Pueblo's jewish population has nothing to do with Canaan, indeed some have become quite invested in the region.
While the Hyksos originally hail from the Levant and shared cultural and linguistic ties with the region, by the time they took over Egypt they were an immigrant community in the area that had done much to at least try and assimilate into the local culture even if the native egyptians largely did not accept them. This meant that when forces of the Fifteenth Dynasty made it clear that they had no intention of leaving after defeating the Reynolds expedition, many Canaanite city-states felt as though they had simply traded one invader for another.
Despite this resentment there was little more than grumblings among merchants and shepherds for years along with the occasional raid, until arms and other resources began finding their way into the region, particularly the Habiru, who the Hyksos had been particularly harsh on due to some of them aiding the Reynolds expedition.
Many of these arms can be traced to the Republic of Rome. These efforts began as a charity mission, reports of famine in 18 A.E in Canaan sparking efforts by the rebuilt Kol Ami synagogue to send small donations of grain and other foodstuffs. When these efforts were rebuffed, one of their own, a woman named Abigail Price, decided to smuggle the aid in anyways. She returned with stories of Hyksos repression in the region.
While the synagogue itself stuck to simply protesting against this oppression, some of its members began smuggling arms and even organizing rebellions among the Habriu. The Hyksos argue these are nothing more than American efforts to begin their own invasion, something the uptimers, particularly Abigail Price, strongly deny. Rome's position is complicated, while some senators and even Consuls privately agreed with the efforts, or at least felt it aligned with their interests, officially Rome has opposed it. The Senate officially passed a declaration condemning the smuggling as an unwarranted act of aggression, but this was a symbolic act and no real measures have been taken to crackdown on the smuggling despite protests from Avaris, further increasing tensions between Rome and Egypt.
Survivors One and All: Other Uptime Religions
In Maltat there is a mosque near the middle of a small port side town, its calls for prayer a daily part of life for Muslims and others alike. In the Federal Republic of America there are both Buddhist and Hindu temples, each tending to a small but enduring population of believers. And in the Free People's Federation, Wiccans and other uptimer pagans freely practice their faith, oftentimes sharing with local downtimers and even taking part in each other's rituals.
While less than half of Tucson pre-Event identified as religious and only 2% of those who did were Non-christian, in a population of nearly 800,000 that still meant there were a considerable number of people who were practicing Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims or followers of some other faith. Many of these faiths would suffer increased attacks compared to most uptimers, particularly Muslims, due to a combination of prejudice and misinformed ideas that they would have more supplies. But despite this, no major uptimer religions of note that existed within Tucson were wiped out. They would survive in often rather reduced numbers. Though those numbers would rebound and in a few times even grow past what they were before the Event through new generations and converts.
The Event generally posed less of a theological issue for many of these groups then it did for Christians. Muslims for example had a relatively simple time adapting, while the Hajj was no longer possible, doctrine stated that Islam was the original, true religion of Abraham and thus no matter where or when they were, God would want them to keep practicing as they did.
How states handle these less popular faiths can vary greatly, Islam is officially outlawed in the New American Republic, New Tucson has a habit of pushing it's non-christian populace to less ideal settlements, and New Monthan has purged much of it's Hindu population after the President believed they couldn't be trusted and they refused to convert, an act that was widely condemned by other Air Force Factions as it was seen as wasteful use of their skilled civilian population. While other states such as New Washington and the Federal Republic of America have legal protections for smaller religious groups, indeed it's a commonly held position among the Progressive party in New Washington that their country's religious tolerance is one of the core values that separates them from more backwards downtimers. Though what's law and how people are treated by other citizens are two different things and can vary from town to town.
Neo-Pagan groups such as Wiccans tend to be viewed with more suspicion in First-wave states due to a commonly held belief that their faith makes them more sympathetic to downtimers. There is little evidence to this belief but such pressures have caused many Wiccans and others to either hide their faith or move to more accepting places like Lesbos.
Downtimer Faith and Uptimer Influence.
The relationship between uptimers and downtimer faiths has largely been one of destruction in first wave states, where great efforts have been made by most to destroy and wipe out all traces of the Luwain religion in the areas they control. Troy for example openly declared that by the time they were done there would be no one who even remembered the names of the Luwain's gods.
This is done for a variety of reasons, beyond general cruelty and hostility, primarily as an effort to break the morale of any organized downtimer resistance in the area and as means of destroying a major source of downtimer power and influence.
One of the big differences between uptimer and downtimer faiths, though this is not a hard set rule, is that downtimer faiths have more than just spiritual, social, and sometimes political influence; they were also part of many a kingdom's bureaucracy. Priests were often in charge of storing and disrupting grain and other goods, keeping records, teaching scribes, to name just a few roles Priesthoods and temples were vital institutions for many downtimer states. By destroying the temples and wiping out the priesthoods, many first wave uptimer states sought to ensure that even if a downtimer revolt gains ground, it will lack the bureaucracy and institutional knowledge to truly rebuild a state and oppose the uptimer states in a meaningful way.
For second and third wave states, uptimer relations with downtimer religions are far more varied and complex. The same things that make them a dangerous threat to first wave states can make them a vital part of some second wave states, depending on the situation.
The Popular Republic of Mycenae famously had a hostile relationship with the Mycenaean priesthood that led to most of them being purged during the early years of the republic. This has led to a perception among the PRM's enemies that the state is rabidly anti-religious, prosecuting anyone of any faith. This is not accurate. While officially an atheist state, the Popular Republic doesn't go after anyone for their private beliefs, though uptimer churches and temples are basically all but forbidden from being built within cities.
To the surprise of many, and the frustration of the PRM's Central Committee, efforts to introduce a more secular education among the workers accidentally created a new religious movement within the state.The figure of Prometheus, the titan who brought the gift of fire to humanity in classical greek myth, was used in both propaganda and adult education, using him as an example of the gods limiting humanity needlessly. However Prometheus was not a figure in Mycenaean myth, something uptimers hadn't realized, that combined with some overly enthusiastic stories has led to the rise of the Promethean Cult. The cult worships Prometheus as a god of fire, industry and innovation, seeing him as the fire that drives the engines of their revolution. While many uptimer leaders find this cult frustrating or at least embarrassing, a number have come to pragmatically embrace it in a way, playing off various workplace safety measures as "Promethean rituals".
The rest of Greece varies greatly in how they handle the Mycenaean religion, with the Arizona Republic doing what they can to wipe it out, the State of New Arizona tolerating it as a means of control and influence, and the Kingdom of Iolcus embracing it, with its Wanax privately converting and his daughter wholeheartedly embracing the Mycenaean gods, building a cult around the Goddess Artemis. A cult she has used to build more and more influence within the Kingdom.
Perhaps the most famous example of uptimer relations with downtimer faith is Crete and the goddess Alcippe, a figure from classical Greek myth that Rachel Wilson had turned into a war goddess of both Mycnean and Cretan origins. For many Americans and most of the upper levels of the Cretan priesthood this was largely a cynical act, though they would never admit that in public, a means of justifying an outside taking over the holy island and consolidating control within the cities and palaces. For many lower ranking priestesses and commoners though, Alcippe is not seen in quite so cynical a light.
The eruption of Thera had wiped out one of the most prosperous Cretan islands and heavily damaged much of Crete itself, many saw the eruption as a sign the gods had turned against them, or worse, their gods had lost power. The Event furthered these fears. To many, Rachel's explanation of a new goddess taking power in Crete was shocking, but it did make a fair amount of sense.
Among those who sincerely believe in Alcippe is the Crown Princess Kiya Wilson, while fully aware of her parents' more cynical view on the goddess, Kiya has a firm belief that even the unknowing can be messengers for the divine, that Alcippe's creation was inspired by the goddess herself even if Rachel had been unaware of this. The Promthean cult is often held up by the princess as another moment of divine inspiration.
This sincere belief combined with Kiya's popularity among the younger generations on Crete has led to an increasingly less cynical and more honest belief in Alcippe among the island's Ameri-Cretan population in recent years.
Before Rome, before the Event, there was the kingdom of Yamhad, it's capital the city of Halab, a city that was also sacred to Yamhad's chief deity, the storm god Hadad, also known as Baal. In the pre-Event world, worship of Hadad would, in various forms, long outlive Yamhad itself, with the storm god even appearing in the bible, where it was viewed as a false god, with christians sometimes associating Hadad with the demonic figure Beelzebub. When Americans first arrived in the near ruined Hadad, some more conservative voices objected to working with the deposed Yamhad king because of this, viewing the Amorites as pawns of demons. These objections were largely ignored as most of the Americans realized they needed the Amorites as much as they needed them. A compromise was reached and both sides agreed to respect each other's religious differences.
Worship of Hadad has changed somewhat with the rise of the Republic of Rome. While Rome remains Hadad's holiest city despite the name change, the Canaanite faith in the region has adjusted both due to political pressure and a small but notable number of uptimer converts. Some of the gorier aspects of the faith were removed almost immediately after the Yamhad forces and Uptimers agreed to a joint government. The uptimers had little tolerance for human sacrifice even as an emergency measure and the former Yamhad king wanted his new allies to see him as an equal, not a savage. Beyond this, most of the changes have been smaller, more changes in how practices are done rather than vast doctrinal changes. Changes to how festivals are organized and when fixing when they are celebrated to the American calendar. A few uptimer converts have pushed for more standardized religious texts for Hadad, but these notions have so far gained little traction with the Amorite community.
Egypt's religious institutions changed little since the Event, save for the changes already put in place by the Hyksos such as merging their own gods with those already worshipped by the locals.
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Author's Note: So we have one more update on faith after this.
There'll probably be a few downtimers. That while no fans of uptimers or their religious members would probably like the general Christian message and teachings. Has a "I like your Christ not your Christians" type deal and try to incorporate some elements into local practices.
There'll probably be a few downtimers. That while no fans of uptimers or their religious members would probably like the general Christian message and teachings. Has a "I like your Christ not your Christians" type deal and try to incorporate some elements into local practices.
There'll probably be a few downtimers. That while no fans of uptimers or their religious members would probably like the general Christian message and teachings. Has a "I like your Christ not your Christians" type deal and try to incorporate some elements into local practices.
Alternatively we can go to the direction of the Land of Ice and Mice and have certain downtimers decide that Jesus Christ is actually a god of murder, destruction, and evil.
While many uptimer leaders find this cult frustrating or at least embarrassing, a number have come to pragmatically embrace it in a way, playing off various workplace safety measures as "Promethean rituals".
May not be what you were thinking, but this immediately brought to mind the Adeptus Mechanicus from Warhammer 40k. Great work as ever, looking forward to more.
Alternatively we can go to the direction of the Land of Ice and Mice and have certain downtimers decide that Jesus Christ is actually a god of murder, destruction, and evil.
May not be what you were thinking, but this immediately brought to mind the Adeptus Mechanicus from Warhammer 40k. Great work as ever, looking forward to more.
And also the Industrialist faiths from After the End, a post-apocalyptic mod for Crusader Kings 3 - that are loosely based after that same cult. Speaking of which, I wonder what would the in-game traits of this timeline's developing neo-American cultures and faiths be.
There'll probably be one uptimer who after all the trauma ended up starting a Cult. After reading too much Lovecraft while tripping out on magic mushrooms.
I mean some people being horribly mistreated and exploited by Christians coming to the conclusion that their God is in some way malevolent isn't exactly unreasonable
I mean some people being horribly mistreated and exploited by Christians coming to the conclusion that their God is in some way malevolent isn't exactly unreasonable
The fact it's never happened before though? Or well widely recorded before.
You need to remember by the standards of the time most of the Uptimers are practically saints seeing as the normal Bronze Age conclusion to a war and expansion was to massacre the adult male population and take everyone else as slaves.
The uptimers are for the most part just engaging in normal Iron Age empire building. Which again is a decent improvement over the norm.
The fact it's never happened before though? Or well widely recorded before.
You need to remember by the standards of the time most of the Uptimers are practically saints seeing as the normal Bronze Age conclusion to a war and expansion was to massacre the adult male population and take everyone else as slaves.
The uptimers are for the most part just engaging in normal Iron Age empire building. Which again is a decent improvement over the norm.
That was more about the assertion that the Americans are particularly "merciful" compared to the downtimers.
I would add that the American invasions and genocides were literally brought about by an extremely obvious supernatural event. Coming to the conclusion that the deity most Americans hold to is malevolent and out to kill us all doesn't seem to be exactly unreasonable from the downtimer perspective, especially among the survivors in Western Anatolia (and areas controlled by hardline Christian theocrats).
There'll probably be a few downtimers. That while no fans of uptimers or their religious members would probably like the general Christian message and teachings. Has a "I like your Christ not your Christians" type deal and try to incorporate some elements into local practices.
Among those Luwains who know details about Uptimer faith that is a very common sentiment along with "If this jesus was alive, the uptimers would kill him."
May not be what you were thinking, but this immediately brought to mind the Adeptus Mechanicus from Warhammer 40k. Great work as ever, looking forward to more.
That was more about the assertion that the Americans are particularly "merciful" compared to the downtimers.
I would add that the American invasions and genocides were literally brought about by an extremely obvious supernatural event. Coming to the conclusion that the deity most Americans hold to is malevolent and out to kill us all doesn't seem to be exactly unreasonable from the downtimer perspective, especially among the survivors in Western Anatolia (and areas controlled by hardline Christian theocrats).
While I don't consider American behavior much removed from how much of the era can get up to on a bad, America's origins do make their actions seem legitmately demonic to many a people.
