Cerseis read on him is that he's a coward and mainly took Ned as an insurance against whatever plot is connected to that wildfyre. The rumours about Stannis are indeed just rumours at this point and everyone got blindsided by the wildfyre cache under the sept.
shit That insurance doesn't work if there's people who don't care that (or even want) both the Septon and Stark to die! (CoughBaelishcough, also we could frame flithy heretic Stannis as wanting both prominent figures from proper Westerosi New and Old Faiths dead) I think hashing this out is now top priority.
[X] Speak with the High Septon. Hash out what to do with Eddard Stark.
--[X] Also focus on coordinating efforts to remove the wildfyre.
--[X] Stark is misguided. He needs to be punished for his careless words, but the it seems like he was puppeted by Stannis. Westeros needs to unite (obviously behind their proper king) versus the foreign threat represented by his new religion.
Look I'm no expert political operative, but teaming up against the outsider is a decent gambit right?
[X] Prepare Joffreys coronation and the accompanying celebration. The smallfolk should see their new king in the flesh.
Good call on not letting Joffrey stew. Look we want him to be a pretty puppet, but he isn't gonna be happy if it's too obvious people are ignoring him to make decisions.
--[] Stark is misguided. He needs to be punished for his careless words, but the it seems like he was puppeted by Stannis. Westeros needs to unite (obviously behind their proper king) versus the foreign threat represented by his new religion.
See the problem with this is Stark is not misguided, Stark is in fact correct, Cersei did in fact cheat on Eddark Stark's friend. I do not think there is any universe where he would work with us against Stannis, even to ensure the safety of his kids. The most we can get out of him is the same one time lie he told in canon and then send him the hell to the Wall.
See the problem with this is Stark is not misguided, Stark is in fact correct, Cersei did in fact cheat on Eddark Stark's friend. I do not think there is any universe where he would work with us against Stannis, even to ensure the safety of his kids. The most we can get out of him is the same one time lie he told in canon and then send him the hell to the Wall.
The top/header action is the main one, so I assume this is primarily talking with the High Septon. I'm hoping to frame it as "Lord Stark is an idiot" and get the High Septon possibly convinced Stannis does hate the Seven/him personally that much. Thus his best bet is to hitch his train to ours.
For Ned, yeah I'm hoping he's willing to play ball and go to the wall for Sansa's sake.
[X] Speak with the High Septon. Hash out what to do with Eddard Stark.
--[X] Also focus on coordinating efforts to remove the wildfyre.
--[X] While the main topic is Stark directly, try to pivot towards Stannis being the mastermind who also personally hates the faith. Convince the High Septon that Stannis poses a direct threat to his life and that working together is the best way to thwart his Red God from sinking its talons further into Westeros.
Hrm maybe this is a better rewording. If we're going all "fuck Stannis" maybe something about how he'd be happy to get important figures for the Seven and Old gods burned in a unholy blaze? Probably a bit too far/detailed.
[X] Prepare Joffreys coronation and the accompanying celebration. The smallfolk should see their new king in the flesh.
Hrm maybe this is a better rewording. If we're going all "fuck Stannis" maybe something about how he'd be happy to get important figures for the Seven and Old gods burned in a unholy blaze? Probably a bit too far/detailed.
[X] Prepare Joffreys coronation and the accompanying celebration. The smallfolk should see their new king in the flesh.
One has to keep in mind we are playing someone who is by local metrics worse than that, what with the usurping the royal line by incest. This is not the modern world where the worst thing you can do is murder. Also Snannis has not actually burned anyone yet, He does his first burning as he is leaving Dragonsone so it would not be that credible to accuse him of it.
Okay in my defense I'm trying to work with the existing power base with the rallying cry of "Let's not die together," instead of ginning up a firebrand to go after adultery/morality while actively sleeping around. Part of me is hoping the High Septon is the right combination of self preserving and ambitious to realize a Stannis takeover isn't ideal and thus is willing to play ball.
One has to keep in mind we are playing someone who is by local metrics worse than that, what with the usurping the royal line by incest. This is not the modern world where the worst thing you can do is murder. Also Snannis has not actually burned anyone yet, He does his first burning as he is leaving Dragonsone so it would not be that credible to accuse him of it.
Well can anyone prove the incest? Barring Cersei having another confession meltdown the evidence is kinda weak. "Ah yes Lord Stark, by your reasoning I assume your wife fucked her brother Edmure for all her children but Arya?" Also given this is the middle ages, I don't know about rumor 'credibility,' being a stumbling block--they can't exactly look up fact from rumor on ye Westerosi Worldwide Weirwood network. But yeah it might damage our credibility among nobles.
[X] Speak with Baelish. Try to find out why he betrayed Stark.
[X] Speak with the High Septon. Hash out what to do with Eddard Stark.
--[X] Also focus on coordinating efforts to remove the wildfyre.
I could be convinced into talking to Varys instead of Baelish, but sorting out what he wants and getting more swords firmly on our side is going to very immediately important.
[X] Reorganize the Small Council and the Kingsguard. You need more loyal men in both.
-[X] Talk to Meryn Trant, Qyburn, and other known Lannister loyalists about making sure trusted men are weilding arms
[X] Prepare Joffreys coronation and the accompanying celebration. The smallfolk should see their new king in the flesh.
I still want to address the situation wrt Baelish seemingly having a personal army that can crush ours any time he wants. That's a Sword of Damocles over our head right there.
[X] Reorganize the Small Council and the Kingsguard. You need more loyal men in both.
-[X] Talk to Meryn Trant, Qyburn, and other known Lannister loyalists about making sure trusted men are weilding arms
[X] Prepare Joffreys coronation and the accompanying celebration. The smallfolk should see their new king in the flesh.
I still want to address the situation wrt Baelish seemingly having a personal army that can crush ours any time he wants. That's a Sword of Damocles over our head right there.
Pretty sure Qyburn isn't around right row. But yeah good point on force monopoly. I'm mostly worried if we take it now, Cersei is gonna do her canon thing and piss off people we dont really want to right now.
[X] Speak with Baelish. Try to find out why he betrayed Stark.
[X] Speak with the High Septon. Hash out what to do with Eddard Stark.
--[X] Also focus on coordinating efforts to remove the wildfyre.
Pretty sure Qyburn isn't around right row. But yeah good point on force monopoly. I'm mostly worried if we take it now, Cersei is gonna do her canon thing and piss off people we dont really want to right now.
[X] Speak with the High Septon. Hash out what to do with Eddard Stark.
--[X] Also focus on coordinating efforts to remove the wildfyre.
--[X] While the main topic is Stark directly, try to pivot towards Stannis being the mastermind who also personally hates the faith. Convince the High Septon that Stannis poses a direct threat to his life and that working together is the best way to thwart his Red God from sinking its talons further into Westeros.
[X] Speak with Baelish. Try to find out why he betrayed Stark.
[X] Speak with the High Septon. Hash out what to do with Eddard Stark.
--[X] Also focus on coordinating efforts to remove the wildfyre.
I don't think asking Baelish straight up what his deal is, is likely to be productive. The fucker will probably just sneer and say "wouldn't you like to know," and lord his information advantage over Cersai. And there's not much Cersai can do to force the information out of him when his personal army outnumbers hers seven to one.
I don't think asking Baelish straight up what his deal is, is likely to be productive. The fucker will probably just say "wouldn't you like to know," and lord his information advantage over Cersai. And there's not much Cersai can do to force the information out of him when his personal army outnumbers hers seven to one.
I mean one could call the glorified thief catchers he bribed 'an army' and 'his' but I have my doubts. If we kill him in the confines of the red keep what are the gold cloaks going to do, siege the place in the name of their good friend Petyr?
That is not really relevant for Baelish is it though? Dead is dead no matter what happens after and Cersei is not the most rational of people, taunting her like that was deeply stupid of him
[X] Speak with the High Septon. Hash out what to do with Eddard Stark.
--[X] Also focus on coordinating efforts to remove the wildfyre.
--[X] While the main topic is Stark directly, try to pivot towards Stannis being the mastermind who also personally hates the faith. Convince the High Septon that Stannis poses a direct threat to his life and that working together is the best way to thwart his Red God from sinking its talons further into Westeros.
[X] Reorganize the Small Council and the Kingsguard. You need more loyal men in both. -[X] Talk to Meryn Trant, Qyburn, and other known Lannister loyalists about making sure trusted men are weilding arms
[X] Speak with the High Septon. Hash out what to do with Eddard Stark.
--[X] Also focus on coordinating efforts to remove the wildfyre.
--[X] While the main topic is Stark directly, try to pivot towards Stannis being the mastermind who also personally hates the faith. Convince the High Septon that Stannis poses a direct threat to his life and that working together is the best way to thwart his Red God from sinking its talons further into Westeros.
[X] Reorganize the Small Council and the Kingsguard. You need more loyal men in both. -[X] Talk to Meryn Trant, Qyburn, and other known Lannister loyalists about making sure trusted men are weilding arms
Stepping into the Great Sept of Baelor was supposed to be an awe inspiring moment. The noises of the surrounding city and plaza fell away as you entered the cavernous halls of marble. Briefly you would move through a dark hall that was illuminated only by candles, to then step into the main hall. It was alight with a riot of colours as the sunlight shone through the windows made from crystals and stained glass, reflecting from bronze, silver and gold ornamentations. It was difficult to do it's beauty justice in mere words and many visitors felt truly close to the Seven when they beheld it.
Cersei felt none of it though. To her, the sept was just a place of boredom and lies. Come to see a corpse and pretend you care about their death. Come see two people profess their undying love to each other, even though they hate each other and will only ever touch each other to make an heir. She had hated it as a child and only came to hate it ever more when it was her turn to swear false oaths on empty idols. At least the Sept had an adequate steward. The night that Robert died, her men had found the High Septon in a whorehouse and yet he would be right back to preaching chastity and faithfulness to ones oaths the moment he was back in his robes. She could not think of a man more worthy of leading the faith.
The false veneer of sanctity was more bearable now though. The pyromancers were out in force, checking every nook and cranny for more wildfyre hidden in the sept. They were even moving around statues and tearing up wall panelings, which greatly agitated the septons and septas, but the High Septons orders were very clear. The pyromancers would be allowed to do whatever they deemed necessary to find every last jar. Even now he stood among the chaos of arguing priests and wisdoms, trying his best to appear confident despite his haggard face and slightly disheveled robes.
"Queen Regent!" The fat man shouted over the crowd around him, stretching a hand towards Cersei as if grasping for salvation. "It is an honor to welcome you in the Sept." Around him the crowd quieted and departed back to their duties. Defiling a holy place in case of the pyromancers and glaring impotently at the former while they did so for the septons and septas.
"And it is always an honor and joy to visit the Great Sept," Cersei lied right back at him. "It is shame though that it happens under these circumstances."
The High Septon chuckled awkwardly while leading Cersei to one of the alcoves of the hall and to a small door that would have been well hidden, were there not a steady stream of pyromancer acolytes coming and going. "The plot was found out in time. By the Sevens grace, all is good and a great danger passed us by." He did not sound all that convinced while saying it. "An unthinkable catastrophe has been averted, in no small part through your vigilance, your majesty, and the faith will be forever in your debt for it."
Outwardly, Cersei smiled gracefully, though inwardly the knots in her chest began to tighten again. She still did not know what Littlefinger and Varys motives were. And there was just no time to find out. "You should reserve the thanks for the coronation and the new king. It will reassure people to see faith and crown united."
"Of course. I will. I will prepare a fine speech for the occasion. A king deserves no less." He even sounded sincere while saying it, yet Cersei suspected it was mostly him enjoying a captive audience for his prattling.
They fell to silence for a while as the High Septon led her to through the winding corridors of the Great Septs catacombs. Septons and pyromancers alike greeted them politely in passing before ducking away into the maze of studies, sleeping chambers and storerooms. Cersei idly wondered where the crypts were. They had to be somewhere in between all of this, but she had never before visited them. She did not care for a hall of urns full of dead Targaryens. Though, there soon would be another. Robert would be buried 'as befitting to the king of Westeros' and then stuffed into a pot next to that of Aerys II. She had made sure of that.
"The prisoners cell," the High Septon said awkwardly as they arrived at another wooden door that was indistinguishable from any other they had passed.
"Did he confess?" Was he still clinging to his honor, even as it was burying him?
"No, he is still recalcitrantly sticking to his lies. He only admitted to sending letters to Stannis Baratheon, may the Seven guide him back to the light, but maintains his story about the kings bastardy. He even went so far as to claim you were laying with your brother like a Targaryen," he scoffed.
"A preposterous idea." She had to see Jaime once she had time. Somehow she was more lonely now with Robert gone than when he was still in the way of their love. All the worries and aches would be more bearable if they just a night for themselves.
When the fat priest pushed open the door, Cersei saw not the defeated man she was hoping for. Eddard Stark still looked defiant, even clothed in torn linen and with chains on hands and feet, stewing in a small chamber with nothing but a cot, a stool and a crooked table. Once more they locked gazes and for the first time she could see true anger in the fools eyes. He did not speak. He just glared and waited.
"I hear you have still not seen reason and accepted the defeat of your plots," she opened, barely managing to clamp down on her urge to gloat.
"I will not confess to crimes I have not committed, no matter what torture you have prepared for me." His eyes didn't waver once. He had yet to even acknowledge the High Septons presence.
There was a gap though. One Cersei was all to eager to exploit. "And your daughters?"
Finally. There was hatred in his eyes. No more of that blighted pity he always showed her. "You would not dare."
"You threatened to take away my children. Why should I not respond in kind?" His head fell as he heard her resolve and no honeyed wine in the world would ever be sweeter to see him finally break. "However, I am not a cruel queen. I have an offer for you. Confess. Take the black. The betrothal will be broken and your daughters can return to the North. Just for once in your life, do what is best for your house."
He did not respond immediately, instead seeming to fight with himself. "No," he finally ground out. "My wife holds your brother Tyrion hostage." He raised his head again with fresh defiance. "His life would be forfeit if you were to harm me or my daughters. House Stark and House Lannisters would become mortal enemies."
It took all her control to remain calm. The fucking Imp. Half a realm away and still a thorn in her side. "The crown will not bow to such extortion and threats." It would be war if they executed the blight, but they would manage.
"If..." The High Septon meekly voiced from the side and immediately wilted as both turned to him. He coughed once while trying to steel himself. "The faith is neutral in such matters of dynasty. But as High Septon, I... Is the realm truly served with this bloodshed?"
"That is how the game is played. Or so I was taught," Stark note drily while turning back to Cersei. "Send Littlefinger my regards for being a good teacher. I just wish I had picked up the lessons faster."
"If it was amenable to her majesty and the Lord Stark, the faith could intercede." The fat priest glanced awkwardly between the two of them. "Maegor the Cruel, may the Maiden grant mercy to his soul, forbade the faith from speaking judgments even when wronged. The rule still stands. But the wildfyre plot would have been against the faith, so..."
He rapidly began to run out of confidence the longer the attention was on him. "If the Queen Regent permits, the faith could try him in private. Lord Stark confesses to exchanging letters with an enemy of the faith and will take the black. Your honor would be largely intact, and it would not be House Lannister that forced you to the Wall."
Stark shook his head, but it was easily to tell that they were wearing him down. "And if I don't accept this mummery?"
"You have not much choice. You can take your defeat gracefully, or worsen it in your struggle," Cersei told him evenly. "Littlefinger might have taught you how to play the game of thrones, but have you become truly willing to throw away your life and that of your children?"
He had no answer to that question.
How will Eddard Stark be judged?
[] Publicly, by the High Septon and the faith. This requires to empower the faith with judging crimes committed against their institutions once more.
[] Privately, by the High Septon and the faith. This requires to empower the faith with judging crimes committed against their institutions once more.
[] As a traitor by the Queen Regent Cersei and King Joffrey I at court as befitting of his actions.
[] In a different way: (Write-In)
AN: Letting him go is not an option here as he needs to be discredited to preserve Joffreys claim to the throne. It would also be going against Cerseis character too much.
The Fat One is a puppet right now, the faith is coming from centuries of the Targeryans somping all over them with dragon encrusted jackboots and they have no military power at the moment. I think, I think we can afford to empower them, though if we do so we also need a plan for how to disempower them. That needs a strong king and all we have is Joffrey.
Still better than risking war.
[X] Privately, by the High Septon and the faith. This requires to empower the faith with judging crimes committed against their institutions once more.
After this we can set either Varyr or Littlefiinger to getting us a nice solid leash on the Fat One. If he does not have more venal secrets than a direwolf has fleas I will be shocked
[X] Privately, by the High Septon and the faith. This requires to empower the faith with judging crimes committed against their institutions once more.
Edit: The best way to go against this, other than getting Dirt on the Septon, might just be to combine Church and State like England did. and then make it so that the Ruler can charge religious crimes.
[X] Privately, by the High Septon and the faith. This requires to empower the faith with judging crimes committed against their institutions once more.
Edit: The best way to go against this, other than getting Dirt on the Septon, might just be to combine Church and State like England did. and then make it so that the Ruler can charge religious crimes.
[X] Privately, by the High Septon and the faith. This requires to empower the faith with judging crimes committed against their institutions once more.
