The Beginning of the End - A West Roman Empire Quest
- Thread starter Jax
- Start date
- Alt. History Historic
-
- Tags
- historical rome
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan State and Church
- Location
- Titan
It was meant as an general offer to sit down and talk to see if anything can be worked. I figured that if the dice suceeded an interlude would occur where a more detailed plan could be written.
- Location
- Italia
[X] Plan State and Church
- Location
- nz
[X] Plan State and Church
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
personally i would like a start on the navy but the above sounds oke
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
I feel like we should probably give the Vandals an ambassador so we know more about what's going on there than just reading that counter, especially for when we eventually reform the navy.
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Plan State and Church
The Rest of 477 A.D.
- Location
- Kiel; Germany
Progress Counter
This shows you what might happen in a number of turns. Note, this shows only the dangers your character is aware of.
Julius Nepos moves: 3 / 5
Vandals take south Italy: 2 / 5
Burgundian's take north Italy: 2 / 5
Alemanni attack Gaul 1 / 5
Alans attack Gaul 1 / 5
Christianity Schisma 1 / 3
# + # + # +
After the lackluster beginning of 477 A.D. and now in full control of the Senate, Orestes gave another call out to the young men of Italy to join their local militias and the army. Many followed his request, and local militias grew in strength rapidly. This time the military also had time to look through the recruits that to join in. These were the first steps back to an actual state army like the Legions. Indeed historians of the time speak of this year as the re-funding year of the Legio I "Italia." The newly founded Legion was, accordingly to writers of the time, sworn in under the eagle. Something many historians believe to be an attempt by Orestes to give this new unit an air of legends, trying to reawaken the images of the old Empire. He was able to do this on the one hand because of the newfound source of recruits, and on the other thanks to the growing stability, his realm was enjoying - bringing in more cash for a long time. The Empire was able to have an actual standing army again.
Gained: Military Trait -Legion
Orestes also sent out Senators who he trusted to different parts of the world that still should be under the rule of Rome. In northern Gaul, they found that Syagrius, son of the former Magister militum of Gaul, Aegidius, was still holding a part of the former province under Roman rule. This was made possible in large parts because of his alliance with Frank's under their King Childeric. The alliance had survived the death of Aegidius and was still strong. When informed about what had happened in Italy, they only had heard rumors this far north, Syagrius swore loyalty to Romulus Augustus. They sent a later to the new Emperor, asking for troops and money. He was hard prest by different Germanic Tribes and hoped Rome would help him.
But this wasn't the only good news, far in the west of Gaul in Armorica surviving Romano-British had settled after fleeing from unstable Britannic islands. They still were Roman, even if their speech was reported to be heavily accented. In Armorica, they had set up a small community and organization locally. Other than dux Syagrius, they didn't ask for help or swore loyalty to Romulus Augustus. What they did was to tell the Senator to get lost and tell Rome that they only would return under the rule of the Empire, should they be protected this time. If Rome didn't do that to them, they would continue to see to their defense - as Rome had suggested they do in the past. They made it clear, proudly so, that they could live without another Emperor. The Senator reported that they seem to fear attacks from the Alans in the East and the Goths to the south.
New Progress Counter:
Alemanni attack Gaul 1 / 5
Alans attack Gaul 1 / 5
Alans attack Armorica 1 / 5
Goths attack Armorica 1 / 5
Orestes also made sure that the final round of public works was finished. The streets of Italy were in such good shape that even in the East, the people heard of it. Zeno, the senior Emperor and Leader of East Rome himself, sent a letter in which he praised the works that had been done for the good of the people. But not only the streets were renewed, but the same was also true for the Aqueducts that feed Rome its freshwaters. They were repaired where it was needed, and even a new one was built. All of this pleased the people of Rome, and they praised Romulus Augustus for it.
With this stability at his back, Orestes began a new project: he would put the handles on the Church no matter what would happen. He wouldn't let the Church again become a problem for the Empire in the future. This project began when agents of Orestes found "evidence" that some of the most important Bishops had stolen from the collects and given it to their families who, most often, had been part of the opposition in the Senat. The outcry in public was loud and strong, decisive action was demanded from the Emperor and Orestes was only too happy to do so in the name of his son. The first and most prominent victim of this cleansing of the Church was no other than Glycerius, the former Emperor and Bishop of Salona. Even the Pontifax was accused of being corrupt from within the Chruch. He then was executed like all others who had been found guilty. The title was again given to Romulus Augustus so that Emperor of the West was at the same time God's Statedholder on Earth.
New Progress Counter: Christianity Schisma 1 / 3
So ended the year of 477 A.D.
West Rome had stabilized even further, even more than the East of the Empire was at the time. Also, if the economy was still recovering from a decade of constant losses, the new stability was leading to a booming recovery in the next years. Yet not all was good. There were regions in the north of the Gaul that was besieged by all sides. And Italy had a similar problem with the Vandals in North Africa. There was also Julius Nepos in Dalmatia, who was plotting on how he could take back the rule over Western Rome from Romulus August. Even if the situation in Italy had become stable, outside of it, the storm was continuing.
# + # + # +
Choose 6 actions!
Military - 2 (2/10 next Skill point)
-Trait: Ravenna - Strong defence +2d6 Military
-Trait: Rome - Normal defence +1d6 Military
-Trait: Legion, +1d6 for each Legion send on a Campaign (Current Number of Legion's 1)
[ ] Recruit more troops (+2 Skill progress)
-[ ] Form a Legion (Gain 1x Legion)
[ ] Reforme the Military (+3 Skill progress, ???)
-[ ] Focus on heavy infantry
-[ ] Focus on light infantry
-[ ] Focus on heavy cavalry
-[ ] Focus on light cavalry
[ ] Reintroduce drafting to the Empire (+3 Skill progress, -1 Stability)
[ ] Beginn the reformation of the Navy (+3 Skill progress, ???)
[ ] Hire foederati from Barbarian Lands (Gain Trait: Foederati Troops +?d6)
-[ ] Write-in who
[ ] Plan a military expedition (+3 Skill progress, War!)
-[ ] Against the Vandals
-[ ] Against Julius Nepos
-[ ] Against the Ostrogoths
-[ ] Against the Burgundians
-[ ] Against the Visigoths
-[ ] Against the Alemanni
-[ ] Against the Alans
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Sent troops to …
-[ ] Syagrius, he needs reinforcement (???)
-[ ] Armorica, the Britons need the protection of the Empire (???)
Civilian - 4 (4 / 20 next Skill point)
-Trait: Support of the Common Men +1d6 against Senators
[ ] Strengthen the image of your son in the public's eye (+1 Skill progress, +1 Stability)
[ ] Order public works on …
-[ ] Monument to honor …
--[ ] Your son (+1 Stability, ???)
--[ ] Yourself (+1 Stability, ???)
[ ] Write-in
Diplomacy - 2 (1/10 next Skill point)
[ ] Ask East Rome for …
-[ ] Troops
-[ ] Money
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Sent an envoy to …
-[ ] Julius Nepos (-1 on all Results)
--[ ] Ask for troops
--[ ] Demand his submission
--[ ] Write-in what you wish to do
-[ ] Germanic Kingdoms
--[ ] Write-in to who
---[ ] Recognize their realm
---[ ] Demand tribute in troops or money
-[ ]
[ ] Establish a ambassador at … (+1 Skill progress for each)
-[ ] the Vandals
-[ ] the Ostrogoths
-[ ] the Burgundians
-[ ] the Visigoths
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Write-in
--[ ] Write-in
This shows you what might happen in a number of turns. Note, this shows only the dangers your character is aware of.
Julius Nepos moves: 3 / 5
Vandals take south Italy: 2 / 5
Burgundian's take north Italy: 2 / 5
Alemanni attack Gaul 1 / 5
Alans attack Gaul 1 / 5
Christianity Schisma 1 / 3
# + # + # +
After the lackluster beginning of 477 A.D. and now in full control of the Senate, Orestes gave another call out to the young men of Italy to join their local militias and the army. Many followed his request, and local militias grew in strength rapidly. This time the military also had time to look through the recruits that to join in. These were the first steps back to an actual state army like the Legions. Indeed historians of the time speak of this year as the re-funding year of the Legio I "Italia." The newly founded Legion was, accordingly to writers of the time, sworn in under the eagle. Something many historians believe to be an attempt by Orestes to give this new unit an air of legends, trying to reawaken the images of the old Empire. He was able to do this on the one hand because of the newfound source of recruits, and on the other thanks to the growing stability, his realm was enjoying - bringing in more cash for a long time. The Empire was able to have an actual standing army again.
Gained: Military Trait -Legion
Orestes also sent out Senators who he trusted to different parts of the world that still should be under the rule of Rome. In northern Gaul, they found that Syagrius, son of the former Magister militum of Gaul, Aegidius, was still holding a part of the former province under Roman rule. This was made possible in large parts because of his alliance with Frank's under their King Childeric. The alliance had survived the death of Aegidius and was still strong. When informed about what had happened in Italy, they only had heard rumors this far north, Syagrius swore loyalty to Romulus Augustus. They sent a later to the new Emperor, asking for troops and money. He was hard prest by different Germanic Tribes and hoped Rome would help him.
But this wasn't the only good news, far in the west of Gaul in Armorica surviving Romano-British had settled after fleeing from unstable Britannic islands. They still were Roman, even if their speech was reported to be heavily accented. In Armorica, they had set up a small community and organization locally. Other than dux Syagrius, they didn't ask for help or swore loyalty to Romulus Augustus. What they did was to tell the Senator to get lost and tell Rome that they only would return under the rule of the Empire, should they be protected this time. If Rome didn't do that to them, they would continue to see to their defense - as Rome had suggested they do in the past. They made it clear, proudly so, that they could live without another Emperor. The Senator reported that they seem to fear attacks from the Alans in the East and the Goths to the south.
New Progress Counter:
Alemanni attack Gaul 1 / 5
Alans attack Gaul 1 / 5
Alans attack Armorica 1 / 5
Goths attack Armorica 1 / 5
Orestes also made sure that the final round of public works was finished. The streets of Italy were in such good shape that even in the East, the people heard of it. Zeno, the senior Emperor and Leader of East Rome himself, sent a letter in which he praised the works that had been done for the good of the people. But not only the streets were renewed, but the same was also true for the Aqueducts that feed Rome its freshwaters. They were repaired where it was needed, and even a new one was built. All of this pleased the people of Rome, and they praised Romulus Augustus for it.
With this stability at his back, Orestes began a new project: he would put the handles on the Church no matter what would happen. He wouldn't let the Church again become a problem for the Empire in the future. This project began when agents of Orestes found "evidence" that some of the most important Bishops had stolen from the collects and given it to their families who, most often, had been part of the opposition in the Senat. The outcry in public was loud and strong, decisive action was demanded from the Emperor and Orestes was only too happy to do so in the name of his son. The first and most prominent victim of this cleansing of the Church was no other than Glycerius, the former Emperor and Bishop of Salona. Even the Pontifax was accused of being corrupt from within the Chruch. He then was executed like all others who had been found guilty. The title was again given to Romulus Augustus so that Emperor of the West was at the same time God's Statedholder on Earth.
New Progress Counter: Christianity Schisma 1 / 3
So ended the year of 477 A.D.
West Rome had stabilized even further, even more than the East of the Empire was at the time. Also, if the economy was still recovering from a decade of constant losses, the new stability was leading to a booming recovery in the next years. Yet not all was good. There were regions in the north of the Gaul that was besieged by all sides. And Italy had a similar problem with the Vandals in North Africa. There was also Julius Nepos in Dalmatia, who was plotting on how he could take back the rule over Western Rome from Romulus August. Even if the situation in Italy had become stable, outside of it, the storm was continuing.
# + # + # +
Choose 6 actions!
Military - 2 (2/10 next Skill point)
-Trait: Ravenna - Strong defence +2d6 Military
-Trait: Rome - Normal defence +1d6 Military
-Trait: Legion, +1d6 for each Legion send on a Campaign (Current Number of Legion's 1)
[ ] Recruit more troops (+2 Skill progress)
-[ ] Form a Legion (Gain 1x Legion)
[ ] Reforme the Military (+3 Skill progress, ???)
-[ ] Focus on heavy infantry
-[ ] Focus on light infantry
-[ ] Focus on heavy cavalry
-[ ] Focus on light cavalry
[ ] Reintroduce drafting to the Empire (+3 Skill progress, -1 Stability)
[ ] Beginn the reformation of the Navy (+3 Skill progress, ???)
[ ] Hire foederati from Barbarian Lands (Gain Trait: Foederati Troops +?d6)
-[ ] Write-in who
[ ] Plan a military expedition (+3 Skill progress, War!)
-[ ] Against the Vandals
-[ ] Against Julius Nepos
-[ ] Against the Ostrogoths
-[ ] Against the Burgundians
-[ ] Against the Visigoths
-[ ] Against the Alemanni
-[ ] Against the Alans
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Sent troops to …
-[ ] Syagrius, he needs reinforcement (???)
-[ ] Armorica, the Britons need the protection of the Empire (???)
Civilian - 4 (4 / 20 next Skill point)
-Trait: Support of the Common Men +1d6 against Senators
[ ] Strengthen the image of your son in the public's eye (+1 Skill progress, +1 Stability)
[ ] Order public works on …
-[ ] Monument to honor …
--[ ] Your son (+1 Stability, ???)
--[ ] Yourself (+1 Stability, ???)
[ ] Write-in
Diplomacy - 2 (1/10 next Skill point)
[ ] Ask East Rome for …
-[ ] Troops
-[ ] Money
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Sent an envoy to …
-[ ] Julius Nepos (-1 on all Results)
--[ ] Ask for troops
--[ ] Demand his submission
--[ ] Write-in what you wish to do
-[ ] Germanic Kingdoms
--[ ] Write-in to who
---[ ] Recognize their realm
---[ ] Demand tribute in troops or money
-[ ]
[ ] Establish a ambassador at … (+1 Skill progress for each)
-[ ] the Vandals
-[ ] the Ostrogoths
-[ ] the Burgundians
-[ ] the Visigoths
-[ ] Write-in
[ ] Write-in
--[ ] Write-in
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
uhm i think sending some diplomats to the germans might calm things down there a bit.
very tempted to just send more troops to both groups that asked for them and maybe next turn keep going with rebuilding the legions?
not sure i fully get this mechanic but that would kind of be what i would like too see.
also no idea what too do with the civil stuff repair stuff and maybe get some kind of policy going not sure.
very tempted to just send more troops to both groups that asked for them and maybe next turn keep going with rebuilding the legions?
not sure i fully get this mechanic but that would kind of be what i would like too see.
also no idea what too do with the civil stuff repair stuff and maybe get some kind of policy going not sure.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
[X] Plan: Extinguishing Fires
-[X] Recruit more troops (+2 Skill progress)
--[X] Form a Legion (Gain 1x Legion)
-[X] Reforme the Military (+3 Skill progress, ???)
--[X] Focus on heavy cavalry
-[X] Sent troops to …
--[X] Syagrius, he needs reinforcement (???)
--- [X] Send our second legion if it succeeds in being raised
-[X] Plan a military expedition (+3 Skill progress, War!)
--[X] Against Julius Nepos
-[X] Establish a ambassador at … (+1 Skill progress for each)
--[X] the Vandals
--[X] the Burgundians
Okay, this should be good, though I do think we should stop at two, three tops, in legions for the moment while our economy and population is still recovering. I don't know what would be best to reform the military around though. I don't know what tactics would be advisable in this current era of battle.
-[X] Recruit more troops (+2 Skill progress)
--[X] Form a Legion (Gain 1x Legion)
-[X] Reforme the Military (+3 Skill progress, ???)
--[X] Focus on heavy cavalry
-[X] Sent troops to …
--[X] Syagrius, he needs reinforcement (???)
--- [X] Send our second legion if it succeeds in being raised
-[X] Plan a military expedition (+3 Skill progress, War!)
--[X] Against Julius Nepos
-[X] Establish a ambassador at … (+1 Skill progress for each)
--[X] the Vandals
--[X] the Burgundians
Okay, this should be good, though I do think we should stop at two, three tops, in legions for the moment while our economy and population is still recovering. I don't know what would be best to reform the military around though. I don't know what tactics would be advisable in this current era of battle.
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LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Heavy Cavalry will dominate warfare for an long time, so best we get in on that train early. The Late Empire transitioned into relying on units of pure Cavalry too for rapid reaction forces once they stopped expanding the Empire.
I don't want to overstretch ourselves, so abandoning the Romano-Britons to their fate is probably advisable. Gallia however is still valuable as a client state to serve as a buffer between us and the rest of Northern Europe as I'd like to focus on reclaiming Carthage and from there Egypt as they were generally the richer and more lucrative parts of the Empire. Without them, our European holdings would be unsustainable as the Empire found out.
To that end, I say we defend Gallia, treat with the Burgundians as to secure our North, and then focus on strengthening our Navy to prepare against the Vandals and Julius Nepos.
Also, hurrah for controlling the Church AND Senate! Truly the Emperor is Blessed. The unrest that'll come with a schism is gonna be tough, but hey, we've bought ourselves some time so best we go on a warfooting!
[X] Plan Realm Defense
-[X] Military
--[X] Recruit more troops (+2 Skill progress)
---[X] Form a Legion (Gain 1x Legion)
--[X] Plan a military expedition (+3 Skill progress, War!)
---[X] Against Julius Nepos
--[X] Reintroduce drafting to the Empire (+3 Skill progress, -1 Stability)
--[X] Begin the reformation of the Navy (+3 Skill progress, ???)
--[X] Sent troops to …
---[X] Syagrius, he needs reinforcement (???)
-[X] Civilian
--[X] None
-[X] Diplomacy
--[X] Establish a ambassador at … (+1 Skill progress for each)
---[X] The Burgundians
I don't want to overstretch ourselves, so abandoning the Romano-Britons to their fate is probably advisable. Gallia however is still valuable as a client state to serve as a buffer between us and the rest of Northern Europe as I'd like to focus on reclaiming Carthage and from there Egypt as they were generally the richer and more lucrative parts of the Empire. Without them, our European holdings would be unsustainable as the Empire found out.
To that end, I say we defend Gallia, treat with the Burgundians as to secure our North, and then focus on strengthening our Navy to prepare against the Vandals and Julius Nepos.
Also, hurrah for controlling the Church AND Senate! Truly the Emperor is Blessed. The unrest that'll come with a schism is gonna be tough, but hey, we've bought ourselves some time so best we go on a warfooting!
[X] Plan Realm Defense
-[X] Military
--[X] Recruit more troops (+2 Skill progress)
---[X] Form a Legion (Gain 1x Legion)
--[X] Plan a military expedition (+3 Skill progress, War!)
---[X] Against Julius Nepos
--[X] Reintroduce drafting to the Empire (+3 Skill progress, -1 Stability)
--[X] Begin the reformation of the Navy (+3 Skill progress, ???)
--[X] Sent troops to …
---[X] Syagrius, he needs reinforcement (???)
-[X] Civilian
--[X] None
-[X] Diplomacy
--[X] Establish a ambassador at … (+1 Skill progress for each)
---[X] The Burgundians
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- Location
- United States
Huh, it's interesting to hear that there are major Roman remnants still hanging on outside Italy and that one of them is still loyal to us. That makes the strategy of turtleing bahind the Alps somewhat awkward. It's good we're apparently trying to resurrect the practice of professional local militaries, although this of course runs the risk of empowering our generals - something which has endlessly haunted the Roman people.
Looks like our move on the Church went off without a hitch, although I'm SURE there won't be any long term repercussions of our actions.
[X] Plan Realm Defense
Looks like our move on the Church went off without a hitch, although I'm SURE there won't be any long term repercussions of our actions.
[X] Plan Realm Defense
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
The action is named "plan" not "invade" so I am fairly certain we need to make our plans a turn before we can invade, hence why I put it in my plan. Your plan would have us dealing with Nepos too late.
- Location
- The land with palm trees, where the thrush sings
[X] Plan Realm Defense
1- Nepos probably doesn't have that many soldiers;
2- IRL, his attempts to recover Italy where unpopular both with the ERE and his dalmatian subordinates (in fact, one of them may have killed him for that);
It's better to be on the defensive against him.
Edit: @Jax can we contact Ovida and organize a coup in Dalmatia?
Do we really wanna invade Dalmatia and risk conflict with the ERE seeing that:
1- Nepos probably doesn't have that many soldiers;
2- IRL, his attempts to recover Italy where unpopular both with the ERE and his dalmatian subordinates (in fact, one of them may have killed him for that);
It's better to be on the defensive against him.
Edit: @Jax can we contact Ovida and organize a coup in Dalmatia?
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- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
The ERE already stopped recognition of him many chapters ago. If we wait for the crisis to erupt, he could have done some unknown political maneuvering to regain the favor of prominent individuals in the ERE to try to get more soldiers to launch a coup against us. If we plan our invasion now and attack next turn, we can make sure any machinations he has don't come to fruition. I highly doubt he is just going to straight up invade with what he has now. This chapter alone literally said he is working on some plot.
- Location
- The land with palm trees, where the thrush sings
They do not recognize him, but they treat him as a client state in Dalmatia, like he was tbefore becoming Emperor and like his uncle before him. We will be attacking their client state and moving troops to their border. Is better to just normalize our relation with the East. They want stability in the west and won't tolerate his shenenigans (like getting their generals and/or barbarians to invade the west).
Edits: Stupid typos
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- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
We are overtly the recognized ruler, so they won't overtly act against us for doing what is within our right if we do it quick enough. As you yourself said, Nepos doesn't currently have a lot of troops. We can end this issue if we act quickly. Trying to negotiate with the East to put him down will just have us make more unnecessary concessions to their power.
Furthermore, they want stability in the West...under their control. Orestes and his son have never been their favored candidates and have LITERALLY just challenged Constantinople's spiritual primacy of being first-among-equals. The East wants stability in the West that submits to the East as the primary empire. They aren't going to do anything over-the-board, but I wouldn't put it past them or members of the ruling class to do things under-the-board. We have nothing to lose by acting now that we won't lose by waiting, but the potential for how much we will lose becomes so much greater the longer we wait. I know I am not going to convince you, but you are making a big mistake.
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- Location
- Kiel; Germany
That shouled be possbile. I would say a Write-in Option for Diplomacy.
That's right, first plan than invade. Otherwise it gets complicated.
Both enclaves are in, what we today call France. The Romano-Britons have just settled the part we nowerdays call Britanny.
- Location
- nz
[X] Plan Realm Defense
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
Egypt is part of the ERE right now (and would be their jurisdiction even if they didn't have it), and North Africa has already begun a desertification process from the Garamantes overusing their aquifers that will make it a lot less valuable than it was in the past. North Africa is still okay, but it's not going to be the golden goose it was previously.
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
I actually plan on breaking Nepos at Ravenna or Rome. If we can defeat him on our home turf and perhaps even capture him, we can much easier secure our position with the ERE since it'll be in self-defense rather than aggression on our part. That, and we'll have put an end to his ambitions if we can win convincingly enough. It'll buy us more time to prepare militarily too since we only have 2 Legions at our disposal come next turn, and one of them will be busy in Gallia, not a great start for a war.