Small Arms Commission Quest II: I swear I won't just wander off again edition.

come back back when we have non-corrosive ammo.
You guys do have access to non-corrosive primers. It's down to getting congress to pony up for them, which they will if there's no choice for the new wonder guns. Which is why the Naval Arsenal guys are running a con job and rigging some of the tests to get it.
 
The Tyee and removable magazine GHR are pretty clearly junk. The GHR is so bad, and the magazines so expensive, that I'm like 80% sure they intentionally half-assed it and inflated the magazine price in a bid to make convince us to take the fixed magazine version instead. The fixed magazine version is legitimately a very good gun, and would have done quite well in WWII, but it isn't a gun for the future. The Frankengatsch is quite nice, but is so expensive that I'm not convinced it is viable when there are other excellent options at a fraction of the cost.

[X] Plan Economic Considerations
-[X] Accept for field testing
--[X] Holl
---[X] Request improvements on the stuck case and case head tearing problem if possible.
--[X] Rivkes
--[X] Fung
-[X] Decline
--[X] GHR removable magazine; grounds of the removable magazine rifle is absolutely terrible and they should feel bad.
--[X] GHR fixed magazine; fixed magazine and semi-auto only don't fit well with the direction we see military rifles going.
--[X] Tylee; shooting the barrel out after less than a thousand rounds is a sign of profound failure.
--[X] Frankengatsch; not cost competitive with the other entries.
 
I was screwing around with a terrible firearm design CYOA today, and I produced the most delightfully stupid weapon in it: a 25 round stripper-clip loaded fully automatic (gas driven) .30-06 revolver rifle with better stats than the M16.

In many ways, it was a small version of the revolver cannons used on aircraft.
I hope this thread never accepts anything that abominable into the armory. At the same time, i hope someone tries to sell us something that stupid.

[X] Plan Economic Considerations

I'm hoping the Holl turns into something beautiful though.
 
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No one loves the Tyee like I love the Tyee.

Also fixed magazines are fine you guys are just mean.

[X] Plan the SVT was Good, Actually
-[X] Accept for field testing
--[X] Holl
---[X] Request improvements on the stuck case and case head tearing problem if possible.
--[X] Rivkes
--[X] Fung
--[X] Tyee
--[X] GHR Fixed Mag
-[X] Decline
--[X] GHR detchable magazine
--[X] Frankengatsch; not cost competitive with the other entries.
 
I can see us making a small order of GHR fixed mags as sniper guns even if something else wins.

[X] Plan the SVT was Good, Actually
 
I really like the Fung, and I think pushing for non-corrosive primers is doable politically. Especially since, IIRC, the Navy played a big role in the coup: keeping the marines happy and well-armed would be within the new government's best interest. Also, it seems to do well with bursts of automatic fire.

This might be idiotic, but would it be possible to get Fung to rig their rifle for burst-fire to ensure it's controllable and doesn't overheat?
 
I really like the Fung, and I think pushing for non-corrosive primers is doable politically. Especially since, IIRC, the Navy played a big role in the coup: keeping the marines happy and well-armed would be within the new government's best interest. Also, it seems to do well with bursts of automatic fire.

This might be idiotic, but would it be possible to get Fung to rig their rifle for burst-fire to ensure it's controllable and doesn't overheat?

Couldn't hurt to ask.
 
This might be idiotic, but would it be possible to get Fung to rig their rifle for burst-fire to ensure it's controllable and doesn't overheat?

Burst fire is bad because it involves building and adding a mechanical counter. These days we can reliably so that, back then it was more of a crapshoot. The problem isn't building the mechanism- its just a gear with three kick teeth and a position to disconnect the trigger- but odds are nobody's going to figure that out unless we get Holl drugged to the gills on peyote and leave him out on the beach with a grandfather clock.
 
I really like the Fung, and I think pushing for non-corrosive primers is doable politically. Especially since, IIRC, the Navy played a big role in the coup: keeping the marines happy and well-armed would be within the new government's best interest. Also, it seems to do well with bursts of automatic fire.
The Fung is semi-auto only. But yeah most of the guns don't do well on corrosively primed ammo. The GHR and Frankengatsch are the only ones that handle it well, and even then it's a question of if the savings on ammo is really worth the time, effort and lifecycle costs associated with maintaining rifles firing corrosive ammunition.
 
Almost 24hr tally.
Adhoc vote count started by NothingNow on Dec 23, 2018 at 12:15 AM, finished with 24 posts and 10 votes.

  • [X] Plan the SVT was Good, Actually
    -[X] Accept for field testing
    --[X] Holl
    ---[X] Request improvements on the stuck case and case head tearing problem if possible.
    --[X] Rivkes
    --[X] Fung
    --[X] Tyee
    --[X] GHR Fixed Mag
    -[X] Decline
    --[X] GHR detchable magazine
    --[X] Frankengatsch; not cost competitive with the other entries.
    [X] Plan Economic Considerations
    -[X] Accept for field testing
    --[X] Holl
    ---[X] Request improvements on the stuck case and case head tearing problem if possible.
    --[X] Rivkes
    --[X] Fung
    -[X] Decline
    --[X] GHR removable magazine; grounds of the removable magazine rifle is absolutely terrible and they should feel bad.
    --[X] GHR fixed magazine; fixed magazine and semi-auto only don't fit well with the direction we see military rifles going.
    --[X] Tylee; shooting the barrel out after less than a thousand rounds is a sign of profound failure.
    --[X] Frankengatsch; not cost competitive with the other entries.
    [X] Plan Field
    -[X] Accept for field testing
    --[X] Frankengatsch
    --[X] Holl
    --[X] Rivkes
    -[X] Decline
    --[X] GHR; grounds of the removable magazine rifle is absolutely terrible and they should feel bad.
    --[X] Tylee; shooting the barrel out after less than a thousand rounds is a sign of profound failure.
    --[X] Fung; polite dismissal, come back back when we have non-corrosive ammo. We'll save you a spot.
 
One last pre-run tally while I do laundry for work tomorrow and wonder what the hell I'm doing with my life.
Adhoc vote count started by NothingNow on Dec 26, 2018 at 11:06 PM, finished with 30 posts and 15 votes.

  • [X] Plan Economic Considerations
    -[X] Accept for field testing
    --[X] Holl
    ---[X] Request improvements on the stuck case and case head tearing problem if possible.
    --[X] Rivkes
    --[X] Fung
    -[X] Decline
    --[X] GHR removable magazine; grounds of the removable magazine rifle is absolutely terrible and they should feel bad.
    --[X] GHR fixed magazine; fixed magazine and semi-auto only don't fit well with the direction we see military rifles going.
    --[X] Tylee; shooting the barrel out after less than a thousand rounds is a sign of profound failure.
    --[X] Frankengatsch; not cost competitive with the other entries.
    [X] Plan the SVT was Good, Actually
    -[X] Accept for field testing
    --[X] Holl
    ---[X] Request improvements on the stuck case and case head tearing problem if possible.
    --[X] Rivkes
    --[X] Fung
    --[X] Tyee
    --[X] GHR Fixed Mag
    -[X] Decline
    --[X] GHR detchable magazine
    --[X] Frankengatsch; not cost competitive with the other entries.
    [X] Plan Field
    -[X] Accept for field testing
    --[X] Frankengatsch
    --[X] Holl
    --[X] Rivkes
    -[X] Decline
    --[X] GHR; grounds of the removable magazine rifle is absolutely terrible and they should feel bad.
    --[X] Tylee; shooting the barrel out after less than a thousand rounds is a sign of profound failure.
    --[X] Fung; polite dismissal, come back back when we have non-corrosive ammo. We'll save you a spot.
 
Rifle Contest Complication! Light Machine Gun Competition part II
While the self-loading rifles were getting ready for initial field testing, the sideline project to bang out some Balzac Portative MgA857mk3* and Holl Medium Machine Gun MgA861mk2** conversions had some issues. Namely, that the Balzac Portative just does not like 6mm r/71. Meanwhile, the Holl adapted wonderfully and so the Marine Battalion that was going to be getting some eight hundred new rifles is just going to have to wait while the LMG crisis is solved. Because while the 500 Fung, 250 Rivkes and 250 Holl rifles are ready (with a total operational cost of just about ₢700 000 now just sitting in a warehouse) the brass are extremely reluctant to send a unit into the field that is running two different kinds of rifle ammunition alongside 12.7mm and specialty ammunition, especially when it involves machine guns.

So with the arsenal now panicking, the job to fix it has fallen to you and your team. The mission is simple, replace the Balzac Portative for the field tests, and quickly. Good thing you only need ninety of them (eighty one and some spares really.)

Gott's proposal is simple, an open bolt gun that has a quick-change barrel, and literally just runs, fires on full auto and is safe. Maybe it can support a Holl or Holborn tripod, and weighs like under 20kg with it's ammo load. He wonders if we could just shove a bipod and stock on a Holl MMG and call it a day, since that'd maybe be the cheapest option now.

Caine thinks this is all stupid, but is willing to jump at the chance to get something with more commonality with the Holl MMG or that can replace it, and so he wants a gun that'll feed from Holl belts, fit on Holl tripods, and is otherwise capable of acting as a light machine gun. Obviously open bolt and a quick change barrel mechanism is a necessity, and if we could get the bare gun under 12.5kg empty, that'd be great.

Wekiva doesn't even get what all the fuss is about and gripes while juggling a baby. A heavy barrel and quick change conversion of one of the guns in the competition would work just fine if it didn't shoot its own rifling out. It's not like feeding from belts or strips is particularly important anyway, since the rest of the world does just fine with magazine fed guns. She wonders if we couldn't just get some Frankengatsches or Montels in 6mm r/71 as an interim measure and call it a day?

Cayetano, while frustrated, sees an opportunity. He wants a lighter weapon, maybe all of ten kilograms dry, with a twenty or thirty round box magazine mounted up top like the Montel to make crew operations easier, but otherwise just a big dumb open bolt quick change barrel weapon. Commercial off the shelf is entirely acceptable, and like the Lázně-Brně vz.70 would be perfect.

The next thing to do is settle on what you want in a proposal from manufacturers, or a set of prototypes, and how quickly you want it. This will be vote by plan as it was in SACQ I.
 
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