From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
[X] [Debt] Several of the Debtors captured were makers of the tribe's eponymous bitter water. Make them produce some for the People. (???)
[X][Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
[X][Actions] Plan Pretty Much Obligatory
[X][Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
[X][Actions] Plan Pretty Much Obligatory
Arguments by others have convinced me that nobility will be more stable in the long run.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That is the reason I'm voting for it, but stability is touted as a virtue of the theocracy choice too, and i've yet to see a comparison of nobility and theocracy as stablizing government.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
[X] [Debt] Several of the Debtors captured were makers of the tribe's eponymous bitter water. Make them produce some for the People. (???)
[X][Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
[X][Actions] Plan Pretty Much Obligatory
[X][Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
[X][Actions] Plan Pretty Much Obligatory
Yes, that was supposed to be included.
They don't have any grapes, but grapes weren't necessary (they wouldn't grow in your temperature band anyway). They can still brew alcohol from corn, wild rice, and maple syrup.
@veekie was more or less right. Aeva was too busy dying and Priit was too far away to stop it. Lack of leadership caused what should've been a smooth integration into a chaotic clusterfuck. It wasn't a deliberate mass slaughter —a large portion was caused by pure mistakes — but the People were negligent as well.
The Bitter-Water tribe technically destroyed them, but that was only because they received so much damage from the Peace Builders.
The Lakelands weren't really anything special before they were forced into their current territory. They were mostly hunter-gatherers with a strong focus on archery.
It's accelerated the formation of an oligarchy. Instead of everyone getting a say, who gets to speak is increasingly restricted to those from the proper families.
No. They're going to spend at least this turn recovering. If they do well, they should nearly be back to where they were before they helped you against the Northlands.
It won't be immediate. Beyond that, Priit can't really say. It depends on how well their war against the Bitter-Water tribe goes. The more you stir the pot down south and ensure that that the current low-level conflict between the Cracktooth and Bitter Water tribe continues, the more the Lakelands will continue to focus on the south. The second the Bitter-Water tribe can focus on them, the Lakelands are going to eat a club to the teeth.
The cave's big enough that's not likely to be a huge concern. Presumably you would expand it as much as you're able.
Waiting things out. Your reforms prevented things from boiling over and gave Priit enough that he deciding flipping the table wasn't worth it. You're still not through the crisis, but you're nearing the end.
I'll probably do a write up on gods a bit later on. It might be in place of an update since you've generated enough for the write up to be length and fairly cool.
Mostly your religion is pure Animism, but with elements of Totem Worship and Ancestor Worship. Over all, the Totemism is on the decline and Ancestor Worships is starting to become more and more popular. It's unlikely to fully displace Animism, but it will become a bigger and bigger focus.
Formal rituals are only really practiced within the Holy Orders as a codification of the magic they've discovered and at the Cave of Stars. The average person doesn't do any rituals in their day-to-day life. They intersect with religion and magic mostly using the shaman as intermediaries. Animal sacrifices and sacrifice of goods are both common and accepted. People pray for common things: good weather, glory, healthy children, etc. It's almost like a business transaction: the People will sacrifice their possessions to an animal spirit and then 'take on' several of the spirit's characteristics.
You do have holidays, however. The biggest are of course Winternight (Winter Solstice), Brightday (Summer Solstice), and the Twin Scales (Autumn and Spring Equinox). For non-celestial holidays, Hoarfrost (first day where frost occurs) and Frostfire (last day frost is present), the Undying Day (festival for the ancestors, usually held in the fall), and Ember Eve (a festival for fireflies in the Spring).
A mix of their geopolitical situation and their values. The Lakelands can't stand up to the Bitter-Water tribe long-term. They're also likely to lose a lot of people to desertion due to their amorphous nature. Most of them are nomads so it's easy to walk away.
It depends on how long it takes you to lock in Raise Warriors (Holy Orders). The longer it takes, the more hereditary the Holy Orders will become. The sooner you do it, the more they stay egalitarian.
Yep. Plus, the Lakelands are still nomadic; a lot of them will simply leave because they don't like the new situation.
I don't think I will go quite as nitty gritty as you did. Something more simple: Martial, Econ, Art, Luxuries, Diplomacy, Magic, etc. with new buildings converting from one form to another, granting more and more sophistication and increased returns. It works great, allow you to build up higher and higher until something happens, some resources are lost and then the entire situation collapses.
Something to consider: there's evidence to suggest Scotland had a system of succession up until the 12th century where political titles passed from a man to the eldest son of his oldest sister (or brother if he had no sisters or his sisters had no male descendants), not his own children. Succession was limited strictly to men, but it was exclusively traced down the female line. This type of succession is common, possibly ancestral in many cultures and will serve you up until the Post-Classical period at least.
No.
They've mostly been quietly shuffled off to the People's various outlying farms. The People at Crystal Lake nearly shit themselves once they heard that Priit was coming back; they knew he would not be happy with how poorly the situation with the Debtors had evolved.
Being sent to the outlying farms is generally a noticeable step up for many of the Debtors. The difference in status between them an another average farmer is small to non-existent. Discrimination takes time and resources, something the outlying farms can't afford. No one cares as long as you can work.
I meant Heroic there in the literal game sense. They would have to be a Hero to qualify, anyone less than that, even if they were Excellent, wouldn't be good enough. If they don't give you extra tagged actions, they're not good enough for Crystal Lake. Recall: it's been something like 100 years at least that they've been ruled by a Hero.
Huge disadvantage to the entrenchment of generational power among male warriors. That's not necessarily a bad thing for society to promote (not that it is inherently good either).
You can always push back against this belief. It's harder than simply going with the flow, but it's totally possible.
Yes. There's some evidence to suggest that the Picts and Scotts by extension used this system until well into the 12th century when Feudalism arrived.
There won't be an update tonight and there won't be one tomorrow either, unfortunately. I have too many commitments on Mondays and Tuesdays to make it work. I'll probably spend some time puttering about with either system reforms on the gods list, however.
- Location
- USA
It sounds like the alcohol that we are likely to make is a spirit of some kind like whiskey or bourbon. At least our maple syrup will have another use I suppose.
Not sure how pairing raising warriors with the creation of alcohol will go though. Maybe we'll get our own berserkers.
What would've happened had they integrated better?
So I'm guessing they and the Peace Builders will never be more than allies of convenience then.
Did they have anything like special bows? Also, are they too far away from us to trade with them? Do they even have any trade goods we would want?
I'm assuming the more assertive stances of the hunters likely means they will probably be part of the proper families?
I thought they had a few settlements of theirs sacked?
Or do you just mean they are going to recover population wise? I doubt they're going to just get all of that prestige they lost back.
Got it, raid enemies of the Peace Builders again.
Were there any more immediate ways for us to solve the issue aside from having Aeva step down then and there?
That's interesting to note. How much of an influence have we had in the development of the religion through our choices?
How wide of a variation is there when it comes to the religious beliefs of the average every day person? When Priit and Aeva spoke about the spirits they mentioned some of the gods in a way to suggest that they were common knowledge. Is that just because of how spiritually educated they were or do the common folk share their knowledge as well?
Also when it comes to affecting the evolution of our religion, is there any conscious way for us to direct it or will that come up over time?
For example, like in the coming CK2 DLC, will we be able to reform our religion if need be?
Are we not agricultural enough to have harvest holiday?
So they're doomed with no way to save themselves then?
How does locking in raising Holy Order warriors make them more egalitarian?
Not questioning the result just curious to see the reasoning.
Somehow I feel like having disenfranchised warriors, since it has been acknowledged that most warriors will be male, is going to be something that could blow up on our faces mightily down the line, as in civil war blow up.
Oh I know, but as we've seen before, such as when we had to make the switch from militia to professional warriors, there is likely to be a cost in stability and legitimacy that will need to be paid to make it work out. I don't really care either way about the issue, nor do I know if we will be in a good enough position to make said changes.
- Location
- Canada
[X] [Debt] Several of the Debtors captured were makers of the tribe's eponymous bitter water. Make them produce some for the People. (???)
[X][Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
[X][Actions] Plan Pretty Much Obligatory
-[X][Action] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X][Action] The Law [Retributive Justice] [Admin]
-[X][Martial] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X][Tribute] Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
[X][Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
[X][Actions] Plan Pretty Much Obligatory
-[X][Action] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X][Action] The Law [Retributive Justice] [Admin]
-[X][Martial] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X][Tribute] Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
Hereditary Nobility:
-Culture is highly mutable. Nobility tend to revise cultural beliefs(and history records in general) in favor of the specific families in power. Good part is its easier to shed bad values and gain ones fitting the situation, bad part is it makes the adoption of toxic but individually competitive ideas very rapid.
-Specialized skills develop more quickly, the noble families compete for prominence.
-Skill retention is lower, because its optimal for specific families to keep their particular leadership techniques in house, and you WILL routinely lose stuff as they may deliberately not record any of it.
-Intrigue is higher, for good or ill. Its a LOT easier to drag DOWN a rival than to outcompete them, and policing of these rules are in turn just another weapon against lower families rising to prominence.
-Social stability is somewhat lower than theocratic, but while things like lineage breaks and the like can and do happen, its also more likely to maintain some form of continuity.
Theocracy:
-Culture is highly stable. Religious orders tend to be very good and reinforcing their values, but it also makes prying bad practices off a bloody endeavor.
-Skills develop more slowly, owing to lack of competitive pressures beyond the greater tribal environment.
-Skill retention is extremely high. Religion is a proven reliable way to pass down old knowledge with high fidelity, even if it tends to pick up detritus along the way.
-Intrigue is a lot more low key. Expect intrigue to mostly happen under our notice. Policing of society will be more consistent.
-Social stability is much higher but more brittle. Religious structures can absorb a lot of events that would normally cause stability loss and shrug it off, especially with our Ordeal beliefs. But if it fails it tends to lose legitimacy hard.
A bit of a pick your poison really, but since this is an important factor to some players...if you want to maintain the Debtors' protections?
Go with religion.
Hereditary nobility would very rapidly adopt slavery as a competitive advantage. There is no logical reason to treat them well when they would be less able to escape, or rebel when kept weak and overworked to a deadly extent. The resources could be used to clan advantage. You can rail against it all day, but the performance gap speaks for itself.
@Redium
Does Winter-distillation work for us?
I'm thinking you could make some PRETTY strong stuff out of syrup if you freeze out the water content(and no doubt the Frost-scarred nutters would find it first).
Noted. Probably should start on that once we lock in Raise Warriors(Warriors) next turn.
Yep. Pretty stable, I think. It didn't get phased out so much as get displaced when the straight male inheritance model of the Romans and Greeks spread out with their empires.
Pairing it with a temple would be interesting as well.
Theres a bunch of psychoactive drugs which are only very weakly soluble in water. Alcohol really ups their potency.
Eh, we're playing on the civilization level. Even our alliance with the Peace Builders and the Mountain Clans(well, more like a stray dog being fed in this case) is unlikely to last more than 5 turns.
They're still hunter-gatherers though, so they got a couple of nasty fracture points looming ahead where a well placed Peace Builder skald can completely fuck the goat.
Look at how Priit managed, and now recall the Peace Builders have small armies of diplomancers.
Uh, no dude. Look at the example:
The man inherits, but his assets are passed down through his sisters' sons, because his sons are going to marry out of the family.
The coming blow up is probably that the simplest way to accumulate power is go full egyptian rite.
- Location
- USA
Probably. Considering our value system and penchant for ordeals, I would not doubt that our Shaman would have some use for alcohol in rituals, especially the Ember Eyes once they figure out how volatile it is when it comes in contact with fire.
I don't think we'd be in any position to exploit that however, as those psychoactive substances either would be something we would need to discover via exploration or gathering from the forest, which isn't exactly high on our list of priorities.
While I do agree with you about the Mountain Clans, mostly because I doubt that they will last past the next five turns anyway, either because they collapse totally or we absorb them as refugees, I disagree in the case with the Peace Builders.
Formally speaking, we have been in an alliance with the Peace Builders ever since Turn 17, two turns ago, when they intervened and saved us from the Northlands' initial strike in the war. However if we count informally, at least in the eyes of the Peace Builders, ever since turn 14, right after the Peace Builder's rediscovered us, we seem to have had a positive relationship regarding our status with them. That's around five turns of time right there. If we look at things from our perspective, informally as well, we seem to have warmed up to the Peace Builders around Turn 16 when we invited them to visit the under construction Temple of the Stars. When we take in the current geopolitical situation regarding control of the peninsula and the wars raging down there, I think we will likely still be allied with the Peace Builders for the five turns you stipulated, mostly because it benefits us to stir the pot and make it so that none of the other tribes down there gain supremacy over that fertile farming region.
Probably, assuming of course either of them survive the next few turns enough to interact with each other before one of the other tribes beats them in the face again.
That's not what I got or interpreted from the information given, as I was mostly referring to this:
From what the QM said earlier about non-hereditary clans, it reads to me that in this system when male warriors pass they don't get to pass on any of their inherited worldly possessions to their immediate children, rather it goes to their clan. Considering the fact that any male warriors would not be able to stay with their birth family and enjoy the benefits of the gains made by their fathers or the connections made by their families, I would not be surprised if some of them felt disgruntled about the situation.
Furthermore, as illustrated in the excerpt above the current situation seems to suggest that the direct children do not inherit at all, rather the clan inherits the possessions and merits of any member. To me, the QM's example you quoted seems to be a reference as to how this system of matrilineal inheritance worked in the real world with the Scots and Picts as examples.
My main point of contention regarding this issue can be seen above. In case it isn't clear, I would prefer if we had a true noble caste form, where our warriors can indeed form lasting connections. My reasons for this are myriad. One of them is that in terms of the meta-game, an entrenched male warrior class with patrilineal inheritance is much easier to wrap our minds around, as that was the dominant system of inheritance in the West and East, with multiple real life examples and histories to use as a point of comparison, thus making it easier for some of us to plan around. My second main reason is that considering our culture and it's values regarding violence, I think it would benefit us to make it so that we have an avenue and outlet for our warriors to exercise their ambitions in the political field, as the system right now seems likely to prevent them from meaningfully doing so. As you said earlier, this system seems designed to create a female oriented non-warrior political noble class. Taking into account our Flat Arrow Outlook and how violence is currently regarded, I would prefer that we have a way for our male warriors to participate in politics so that someone ambitious down the line doesn't decide to wreck the system because they have way to advance politically in it.
Finally, this quote, among other things, seems to suggest to me that the example given by the QM earlier regarding the Scots and Pict's matrilineal succession system was used just to show us a historical analog of a successful system, rather than how the system is now. Right now, I am guessing that we will soon be deciding what exactly our succession laws are, and I've already made my opinion on them very clear.
Yeah, just noticed this. The question you quoted from me is not in reference to the Holy Orders, but the Non-Hereditary Orders/Clans you said would become a trait soon.
To clarify the question, @Redium how will our current choice regarding Aeva and succession, such as choosing the hereditary noble option based on lineage to Kaspar, patrilineal, affect the Non-Hereditary Orders/Clans for the warriors?
Virian
Sage of Reason and incomplete information
- Location
- Where logic has never been before
- Pronouns
- he/him
[X] [Debt] Several of the Debtors captured were makers of the tribe's eponymous bitter water. Make them produce some for the People. (???)
[X][Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
[X][Actions] Plan Pretty Much Obligatory
-[X][Action] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X][Action] The Law [Retributive Justice] [Admin]
-[X][Martial] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X][Tribute] Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
[X][Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
[X][Actions] Plan Pretty Much Obligatory
-[X][Action] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X][Action] The Law [Retributive Justice] [Admin]
-[X][Martial] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X][Tribute] Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
We would need some form of distillation first. Freezing is the easiest for us probably, but other than our sugar, most of our alcohol forms are unlikely to be particularly high proof for a while yet.
They're below our level of abstraction really, since they have little role outside of their ritual uses. Theres a lot of vision quest aids out there
I would note that right around when we invited them to visit the temple being built we were still suspicious of their Skalds influence on our population and how they were stealing the attentions of our warriors. Five turns generally speaking is the time between one or both of us experiencing some state change which switches the nature of our engagement. The Peace Builders are convenient since they are a pacifistic agrarian culture so we'd have some warning before anything goes sour....but then again we were pretty good friends with the Northlands RIGHT until their high priestess had a stroke in our temple, and suddenly we killed their entire adult male population...and became fast friends again.
Things change a lot at the civ level.
This is currently incorrect. We don't have inheritance period because we've yet to develop a strong concept of personal property(we do have tools in use by individuals, but the nature of obsidian blades, bone and stone tools is that they don't really last a lifetime), and our creations of great value we tend to build into communal structures.
One of the decision points referenced is how we transition to private property as Tools In Common no longer are adequate to service the community.
This incidentally tends to show up around the copper age. Metal really changes the value of things because of the production man hours and permanence represented by each piece.
Uh...no, not really. This is the current common form, because it arose out of the famously misogynistic values of the Romans(who got it from the Greeks) dominating a post Roman breakup Europe, and carried by the religions emerging from that, as well as from the tendency of strongly polygamous cultures to favor patrilineal inheritance(which tends to be most expansionistic militarist cultures, since they suffered a persistent gender imbalance).
As such its a relatively weak argument.
Sorry, can't make sense of this statement. Its stating a couple of unrelated points and then jumping to a conclusion that's opposite to that of the facts.
We know for a fact that women dominate backroom politics. They spend a lot of time together where they work on planting, weaving, childraising, etc, which encourages them to build strong personal political ties. This is due to Flat Arrow Outlook, because our menfolk have a high tendency to resolve problems through violence, they become a relatively fragile way to develop a noble class. Part and parcel of a noble class is finding ways to reduce the loss of these valuable personnel. Which means our women are the repository for administrative skills....
...however, I Want To Be The Very Best pushes the scale back towards men. Pregnancy removes women from being able to play the elitism game in the trades where skill is the most evident, while the soft skills of diplomacy and administration cannot be measured to compete in. That then is the mens' role in politics: The successful men gain great prestige, and then marry themselves to a cause to lend their influence and deeds to their chosen cause. Elitist cultures favor men because physical strength and ability is the simplest objective measure of being elite.
Which leaves us in the current in-between state.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
The thing is, its very hard I think, to maintain an inbetween state. Something will have to give eventually.
Yes. Which is why the whole "Matriarchy is doomed/Patriarchy is doomed" perspective is deeply flawed. We're building a social and political structure incrementally and one of the crucial points is that our Plotting/Planning tendencies are not yet represented by a trait(probably because they're for a sub subgroup), and that Flat Arrow Outlook has to evolve, compensate with another trait's nuance or will break something else eventually.
Also that we probably want to slow down on the elitism button until we hit Bronze, because it's going to cause another increase to specialization demands that our society can't digest for a while yet.
Each new piece should try to factor in the previous pieces, rather than the reactionary approach of trying to undo the last action we did because part of it can have scary implications combined with a few parts we don't have yet.
19.1 Stone Canon
[X] [Debt] Several of the Debtors captured were makers of the tribe's eponymous bitter water. Make them produce some for the People. (???) -> Brewing
[X][Actions] Plan Pretty Much Obligatory
-[X][Action] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X][Action] The Law [Retributive Justice] [Admin]
-[X][Martial] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X][Tribute] Megaprojects - Current Megaproject (The Law x3 [Due to Exceptionally High Dice Rolls])
[X] [Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
As Priit slowly aged into his elder years, he did something that he had never had foreseen himself doing: he set down his weapons. It wasn't that the spear had become heavy in his hand, there were days where it seemed the entire thing had been carved from stone instead of just the tip. No, the fact was that there simply weren't any more wars to fight. At least, there would be no more wars that could be fought with mere sticks and stones.
Instead, in the last years of his life, Priit would devote himself to a war far more subtle and yet far more insidious: that of human nature.
He had been visiting some of the People's outlying farms, speaking to the people there so that he could hear their opinions and learn about their lives. It wasn't something that a Big Man could do often, much less a warleader like himself. Normally, when he needed information, he turned to one of his subordinates who asked one of their subordinates in turn. It was like there was a layer of fog between his eyes and those of the people actually doing things. He hated that as a young man, but he'd needed to grow adept at it as more and more warriors fell under his command.
It was a tricky style of leadership that allowed someone to command a host greater than what should have been possible, but there were also obvious downsides: it placed a film across the eyes. When Priit had spoken to the outlying farmers, he'd heard from them about the Debtors that had been quietly moved out to assist them years ago. They were the survivors of the Debtors who had worked to construct the Hill in Crystal Lake; the fortification had been built on corpses buried under soft earth and mud. Blood and bone had been turned into mortar by the widespread negligence of the People.
At the time, Aeva was dying and could not oversee the project. Priit himself was moons away, fighting in the south. The ones overseeing the project simply lacked the skill to really manage it. They did not appreciate the fact that the Debtors taken from the Cracktooth tribe had no experience working with earth on a large scale. They did not know that the Debtors were ignorant of basic risks like mudslides and hill collapse. It was as if... Priit struggled for a moment to think of an example. It was like a parent forgetting to tell a young and foolish child that stoneware used to cook could remain dangerously hot long after it was pulled from the fire. Normally, no one would make that mistake; only the most uninformed would ever do so. It was such a basic truth of life that it was impossible to expect someone not to know it.
It was an understandable mistake, if profoundly unfortunate; the man trusted to manage was simply not up to the task since he never knew how to be.
When Priit had first heard the truth, however, his reaction had been more... unfortunate. For a time, the red and bloody rage of his youth had returned. His vision had been bolted out by the dying colours of a bleeding sun and his breath had come like bellows in his ears. His heart had drummed; thump, thump, thump, while he acted on instinct and struck the ground in rage. It was only a few moments, but he had felt profoundly weak afterwards, drained by the sheer insanity of the feeling with ebbing, aching pain radiating from his left arm, across his chest and up to his jaw.
He was thankfully far removed from Crystal Lake at the time since it had taken him days to fully calm down from the incident; days before he realized that skinning the manager and nailing his hide to the top of a post was not a solution to the problem.
Reforms were needed: the People could no longer operate as they once had. Their number had simply grown so great that it was impossible for one person to raise themselves to the top of the People with strength and skill and then direct the thousands that made up the population. It was simply too difficult for most to learn how to be a leader. Between the mysteries of the Holy Orders, the divergence between disparate settlements and the magnitude of construction that went on each year, there was simply too much to know for the average Big Man. Securing a position of leadership in with thirty or forty years to their name, left little time before a new, young up-and-comer would come to displace the Big Man. Only the greatest of Big Men could avoid the wasting irrelevance of age; most Big Men were discarded within a decade or two at most.
The People needed to start younger, almost from childhood, like the Holy Orders did with their best and their brightest. Leadership of thousands was a complex task. Ensuring that each person had enough food and supplies, that none of the wrong feathers were ruffled unnecessarily, that the spirits were properly honoured and half a hundred other tasks required extensive experience. With that in mind, Priit simply started to invite some of his young children and grandchildren to accompany him during his duties. They did little, for the most part, but having them sit in to watch supplies being redistributed or plans made to finalize the new temple at Crystal Lake with blocks of quartz, or a mediation to resolve violence between one of the Fangs and an Ember-Eye taught them many valuable lessons.
Priit was initially surprised at how positive the reception was at his decision. Many spoke to him of his vision in seeking to train the next generation of leaders. The fact that the children he selected were close kinsmen was barely remarked upon; wasn't in natural for a father and grandfather to show the next generation the best of their skills? Was this not akin to the apprenticeship system that Aeva had shown Kaspar-In-Flesh intended? The fact that he had picked children sharing descent from Kaspar-In-Flesh only caused the move's legitimacy to soar. Kaspar's descendants had produced great things. Priit and Aeva were foremost, but even Kaspar's lesser descendants had become influential warriors, shaman, and leaders.
Skill was carried best in families; it was obvious to see. It was, perhaps, not direct from father-to-son, or mother-to-daughter, but there was a recurring tie; Kaspar was Aeva's father and Priit's own great-great-grandfather. Based on what Priit could see, one of his Winterborn granddaughters born the same spark as People's past three leaders.
Trait Gained: Bloodline Inheritance!
With the next generation of the People's leaders slowly being trained, Priit had to ask himself: how should he teach them to lead? There were some obvious answers to that: they should be smart, skilled speakers, good warriors, organizers of men and material, along with a dozen other roles. What they should lead in was obvious, but how should they lead the People?
To Priit, it was clear that the old ways no longer worked. The People could no longer allow themselves to be ruled by Big Men constantly competing and fighting, sometimes literally, for prestige. Hill Guard was a mess, a slow roiling boil of back alley and dark forest murders between those that aspired to lead; it was rare for a moon to go by now without broken bodies being swept out into Rahu Bay. Hunters were no longer willing to travel the deep woods any more. No potter felt comfortable collecting clay from the riverbank and traders were slowly starting to shun the settlement. It was rare for those without aspirations to die, but if they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, it was just as easy to slit two throats as one.
The warriors had been powerless to stop the carnage; in some cases they had even been directly implicated! Life was slowly grinding to a halt as the People of Hill Guard found themselves suffocated by fear and uncertainty. There had always been some level of violent problem solving, but as the People grew more and more populous, it became ever easier. No longer would an ambitious Big Man have to overcome the reluctance inherent in plotting murder one of their cousins or a dear family friend. Now they killed people completely unknown to them. It was easy to gather a small group of four or five, arm them with bow and spear, before going on a hunt of a different sort.
With leaders now being limited and trained from childhood, it was the perfect time to nip those problems in the bud. If they weren't... Priit dreaded to think of it. A leader trained from birth could manage things far more effectively than one who picked it up late in life. How much worse could their infighting be?
If things were allowed to stay the same, the future would be an unending time of blood, where kith and kin struck against each other.
[ ] [Gov] The People should deffer now to a single leader.
[ ] [Gov] The People should formalize their Council of Three forevermore.
[ ] [Gov] The People should have a council with a representative of each settlement.
[ ] [Gov] The People should govern themselves foremost locally, coming together for larger issues.
[ ] [Gov] The People's rulers should build ties within themselves so that they no longer fight for power.
With the matter of leadership solved, Priit finally turned himself to his final ambition: the Law. The word itself was strange; Law was a little known way of saying 'something fixed in place'. It was often used to describe the People's building, their Wonders, and their fiercest warriors. Priit wanted to harness that strength, that resilience, so that the rules he laid down today would endure for all time. To ensure that was possible, Priit knew that the Law would need to be known by everyone, regardless of station. Each child was to be instructed on the Law's particulars during the long and idle moons of winter.
Still, he knew stories could change over time. What of Kaspar-In-Flesh? He had been Aeva's father and by the time of her death, could anyone be said to truly know him? He was the first to ascend to the spirits, that was well known, but what of the other stories? Was he really eight feet tall with the strength of ten men? Could he have hacked in half three warriors with a single swing of his Blacksword? Did he really have eyes of purest flame?
It was impossible to know.
It would not, however, be impossible to know the Law. Priit had ordered it carved on the wall of each and every Temple of the People. A new pigment had recently been discovered by the Ember-Eyes: a brilliant red colour. Combined with amethyst, ocher, citrine, obsidian, and plaster, there were more than enough colours to created beautiful murals. Ones that would hopefully stand for all time.
The Law would be depicted:
[ ] [Record] In full, as well as the People could commit it to stone.
[ ] [Record] In metaphour, understood best through study and understanding.
[ ] [Record] As a supplement, a way to expand on the stories that the People would tell.
[ ] [Record] In pictures, demonstrating the proper ways to live.
Priit knew that the Fingers lacked a Temple and would not take the slight lightly that they were unable to have their own depiction of the Law, but he could not wait. Age pressed down upon him. He vowed that they would have one within a generation.
As for the Law itself, that was determined after countless moons, years, of discussion. It was the purification of every story and tradition passed down from the elders to their grandchildren. There had always been parables, half-truths, and other myths that the People believed, but they varied; sometimes even between longhouses in the same settlement! By taking all of the tales, the People could focus on the ones that served them properly. Everyone, from the greatest leader to the lowest farmer, held treasured memories of learning at the knees of the grandparents during the long, dark moons of winter. These tales spoke to each one of the People, forming the basis of their decision-making. None of these tales were strictly the Law, but they built up to that point. By building the Law a top a foundation of these childhood stories, it would influence each one of the People, from now until the end of time.
At their core, the Laws were a command, perhaps the most ambitious one Priit had ever given. They were a collection of truths on how the People should live. A single collection which was universal and would be maintained. It would be impossible, Priit knew, to find something to apply to every situation. All he could do was encode a few truths and hurl them into the future, hoping that future generations would pick up the burden in turn for future generations.
In the end, Priit decided that the core message he would send was:
[ ] [Core] On Behalf of Future Generations.
[ ] [Core] Revere the Spirits
[ ] [Core] Social Unity
[ ] [Core] Balance of People
[ ] [Core] Power in all Things
[ ] [Core] Benefit the Land
Megaproject Completed: The Law (Neolithic)!
Legacy Gained: Primordial Law
When everything was finally done, Priit felt free for the first time in his life. As the years moved on, it seemed like a smile was permanently fixed to his face. Working with children, resolving disputes, none of the difficulties of leadership could possibly bother him. Here he was, an elder, and these few years were the first that he could recall without war. No comrades choking on their own blood, none impaled and left to die over the course of days. No more kith and kin whom he saw leave with a wave confident wave, never to return.
None of the tales coming up from the Island Makers bothered him. The tales of a tribe in the far off west having tamed the unconquered sun and brought the celestial orb to earth were impressive, but far removed. Stories of scarred men slowly showing themselves along the south shore of the Island Makers lake, were also distant. The Pearl Divers returning, having completed the final Saltern that they could within their lands and bringing with them more of the precious substance than the People could ever use, was a happy moment. The fact that the Pearl Divers further realized the People's wisdom in seeking challenge left him nothing but pleased.
Spiritual Advisers Triggers: Whole Hearted -> Trial By Fire
It was only when a young man from Arrow Lake approached him in audiance at the Fingers that Priit's smiled died for the first time in years.
"We know," the young man had said in his own tongue. "Of how you supply the Worker Tribes. This ends. Today. You conspire and enable their crimes against the Bluestone People. In gracious recompense for your crimes of theft, murder, and treachery, the Ancients of the Lake have allowed you a single opportunity to redeem yourselves. The losses you've inflicted on us will be compensated for. For every man, woman, or child harmed, you shall provide one individual to the Ancients so that their lost labours can be made up. You have one moon to begin providing Debtors." The People's word tested almost poisonous on the young man's tongue.
As the boy turned and left, something came over Priit and he felt tears fall from his eyes for the first time in years.
How do you respond to Arrow Lake's ultimatum?
[ ] [Ask] Concede on every point.
[ ] [Ask] Partially concede. Stop feeding the Mountain Clans and raid them for workers to pay off Arrow Lake.
[ ] [Ask] Refuse all of their demands.
[ ] [Ask] Bring it, boy.
AN: Sorry this took so long. You managed to gain an extra action on The Law due to spectacular rolls (100, 98, 89) so I had to rush through the system changes faster than I thought I would need to. They will be up in 20.0, whether that's next update or in two updates.
[X][Actions] Plan Pretty Much Obligatory
-[X][Action] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X][Action] The Law [Retributive Justice] [Admin]
-[X][Martial] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X][Tribute] Megaprojects - Current Megaproject (The Law x3 [Due to Exceptionally High Dice Rolls])
[X] [Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
As Priit slowly aged into his elder years, he did something that he had never had foreseen himself doing: he set down his weapons. It wasn't that the spear had become heavy in his hand, there were days where it seemed the entire thing had been carved from stone instead of just the tip. No, the fact was that there simply weren't any more wars to fight. At least, there would be no more wars that could be fought with mere sticks and stones.
Instead, in the last years of his life, Priit would devote himself to a war far more subtle and yet far more insidious: that of human nature.
He had been visiting some of the People's outlying farms, speaking to the people there so that he could hear their opinions and learn about their lives. It wasn't something that a Big Man could do often, much less a warleader like himself. Normally, when he needed information, he turned to one of his subordinates who asked one of their subordinates in turn. It was like there was a layer of fog between his eyes and those of the people actually doing things. He hated that as a young man, but he'd needed to grow adept at it as more and more warriors fell under his command.
It was a tricky style of leadership that allowed someone to command a host greater than what should have been possible, but there were also obvious downsides: it placed a film across the eyes. When Priit had spoken to the outlying farmers, he'd heard from them about the Debtors that had been quietly moved out to assist them years ago. They were the survivors of the Debtors who had worked to construct the Hill in Crystal Lake; the fortification had been built on corpses buried under soft earth and mud. Blood and bone had been turned into mortar by the widespread negligence of the People.
At the time, Aeva was dying and could not oversee the project. Priit himself was moons away, fighting in the south. The ones overseeing the project simply lacked the skill to really manage it. They did not appreciate the fact that the Debtors taken from the Cracktooth tribe had no experience working with earth on a large scale. They did not know that the Debtors were ignorant of basic risks like mudslides and hill collapse. It was as if... Priit struggled for a moment to think of an example. It was like a parent forgetting to tell a young and foolish child that stoneware used to cook could remain dangerously hot long after it was pulled from the fire. Normally, no one would make that mistake; only the most uninformed would ever do so. It was such a basic truth of life that it was impossible to expect someone not to know it.
It was an understandable mistake, if profoundly unfortunate; the man trusted to manage was simply not up to the task since he never knew how to be.
When Priit had first heard the truth, however, his reaction had been more... unfortunate. For a time, the red and bloody rage of his youth had returned. His vision had been bolted out by the dying colours of a bleeding sun and his breath had come like bellows in his ears. His heart had drummed; thump, thump, thump, while he acted on instinct and struck the ground in rage. It was only a few moments, but he had felt profoundly weak afterwards, drained by the sheer insanity of the feeling with ebbing, aching pain radiating from his left arm, across his chest and up to his jaw.
He was thankfully far removed from Crystal Lake at the time since it had taken him days to fully calm down from the incident; days before he realized that skinning the manager and nailing his hide to the top of a post was not a solution to the problem.
Reforms were needed: the People could no longer operate as they once had. Their number had simply grown so great that it was impossible for one person to raise themselves to the top of the People with strength and skill and then direct the thousands that made up the population. It was simply too difficult for most to learn how to be a leader. Between the mysteries of the Holy Orders, the divergence between disparate settlements and the magnitude of construction that went on each year, there was simply too much to know for the average Big Man. Securing a position of leadership in with thirty or forty years to their name, left little time before a new, young up-and-comer would come to displace the Big Man. Only the greatest of Big Men could avoid the wasting irrelevance of age; most Big Men were discarded within a decade or two at most.
The People needed to start younger, almost from childhood, like the Holy Orders did with their best and their brightest. Leadership of thousands was a complex task. Ensuring that each person had enough food and supplies, that none of the wrong feathers were ruffled unnecessarily, that the spirits were properly honoured and half a hundred other tasks required extensive experience. With that in mind, Priit simply started to invite some of his young children and grandchildren to accompany him during his duties. They did little, for the most part, but having them sit in to watch supplies being redistributed or plans made to finalize the new temple at Crystal Lake with blocks of quartz, or a mediation to resolve violence between one of the Fangs and an Ember-Eye taught them many valuable lessons.
Priit was initially surprised at how positive the reception was at his decision. Many spoke to him of his vision in seeking to train the next generation of leaders. The fact that the children he selected were close kinsmen was barely remarked upon; wasn't in natural for a father and grandfather to show the next generation the best of their skills? Was this not akin to the apprenticeship system that Aeva had shown Kaspar-In-Flesh intended? The fact that he had picked children sharing descent from Kaspar-In-Flesh only caused the move's legitimacy to soar. Kaspar's descendants had produced great things. Priit and Aeva were foremost, but even Kaspar's lesser descendants had become influential warriors, shaman, and leaders.
Skill was carried best in families; it was obvious to see. It was, perhaps, not direct from father-to-son, or mother-to-daughter, but there was a recurring tie; Kaspar was Aeva's father and Priit's own great-great-grandfather. Based on what Priit could see, one of his Winterborn granddaughters born the same spark as People's past three leaders.
Trait Gained: Bloodline Inheritance!
There is something within each person that carries skill and knowledge, this fact is self-evident to the People and it is best to cultivate these unique talents from birth. The best potter is the one who learns at the knee of their father and mother; playing at their side with clay castoffs and helping them fulfill their duties. There are exceptions of course, some individuals do not carry the skill of their fore-bearers. These embarrassments are ruthlessly replaced for the shame they bring to their families. Bloodlines that fail to replace their own are weeded out in turn, just as the master hunter carefully culls the weak in a herd to protect it.
Effects: Increase the Specialization cap by 100%, raise the Hierarchy cap by 50%
Effects: Increase the Specialization cap by 100%, raise the Hierarchy cap by 50%
With the next generation of the People's leaders slowly being trained, Priit had to ask himself: how should he teach them to lead? There were some obvious answers to that: they should be smart, skilled speakers, good warriors, organizers of men and material, along with a dozen other roles. What they should lead in was obvious, but how should they lead the People?
To Priit, it was clear that the old ways no longer worked. The People could no longer allow themselves to be ruled by Big Men constantly competing and fighting, sometimes literally, for prestige. Hill Guard was a mess, a slow roiling boil of back alley and dark forest murders between those that aspired to lead; it was rare for a moon to go by now without broken bodies being swept out into Rahu Bay. Hunters were no longer willing to travel the deep woods any more. No potter felt comfortable collecting clay from the riverbank and traders were slowly starting to shun the settlement. It was rare for those without aspirations to die, but if they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, it was just as easy to slit two throats as one.
The warriors had been powerless to stop the carnage; in some cases they had even been directly implicated! Life was slowly grinding to a halt as the People of Hill Guard found themselves suffocated by fear and uncertainty. There had always been some level of violent problem solving, but as the People grew more and more populous, it became ever easier. No longer would an ambitious Big Man have to overcome the reluctance inherent in plotting murder one of their cousins or a dear family friend. Now they killed people completely unknown to them. It was easy to gather a small group of four or five, arm them with bow and spear, before going on a hunt of a different sort.
With leaders now being limited and trained from childhood, it was the perfect time to nip those problems in the bud. If they weren't... Priit dreaded to think of it. A leader trained from birth could manage things far more effectively than one who picked it up late in life. How much worse could their infighting be?
If things were allowed to stay the same, the future would be an unending time of blood, where kith and kin struck against each other.
[ ] [Gov] The People should deffer now to a single leader.
[ ] [Gov] The People should formalize their Council of Three forevermore.
[ ] [Gov] The People should have a council with a representative of each settlement.
[ ] [Gov] The People should govern themselves foremost locally, coming together for larger issues.
[ ] [Gov] The People's rulers should build ties within themselves so that they no longer fight for power.
With the matter of leadership solved, Priit finally turned himself to his final ambition: the Law. The word itself was strange; Law was a little known way of saying 'something fixed in place'. It was often used to describe the People's building, their Wonders, and their fiercest warriors. Priit wanted to harness that strength, that resilience, so that the rules he laid down today would endure for all time. To ensure that was possible, Priit knew that the Law would need to be known by everyone, regardless of station. Each child was to be instructed on the Law's particulars during the long and idle moons of winter.
Still, he knew stories could change over time. What of Kaspar-In-Flesh? He had been Aeva's father and by the time of her death, could anyone be said to truly know him? He was the first to ascend to the spirits, that was well known, but what of the other stories? Was he really eight feet tall with the strength of ten men? Could he have hacked in half three warriors with a single swing of his Blacksword? Did he really have eyes of purest flame?
It was impossible to know.
It would not, however, be impossible to know the Law. Priit had ordered it carved on the wall of each and every Temple of the People. A new pigment had recently been discovered by the Ember-Eyes: a brilliant red colour. Combined with amethyst, ocher, citrine, obsidian, and plaster, there were more than enough colours to created beautiful murals. Ones that would hopefully stand for all time.
The Law would be depicted:
[ ] [Record] In full, as well as the People could commit it to stone.
[ ] [Record] In metaphour, understood best through study and understanding.
[ ] [Record] As a supplement, a way to expand on the stories that the People would tell.
[ ] [Record] In pictures, demonstrating the proper ways to live.
Priit knew that the Fingers lacked a Temple and would not take the slight lightly that they were unable to have their own depiction of the Law, but he could not wait. Age pressed down upon him. He vowed that they would have one within a generation.
As for the Law itself, that was determined after countless moons, years, of discussion. It was the purification of every story and tradition passed down from the elders to their grandchildren. There had always been parables, half-truths, and other myths that the People believed, but they varied; sometimes even between longhouses in the same settlement! By taking all of the tales, the People could focus on the ones that served them properly. Everyone, from the greatest leader to the lowest farmer, held treasured memories of learning at the knees of the grandparents during the long, dark moons of winter. These tales spoke to each one of the People, forming the basis of their decision-making. None of these tales were strictly the Law, but they built up to that point. By building the Law a top a foundation of these childhood stories, it would influence each one of the People, from now until the end of time.
At their core, the Laws were a command, perhaps the most ambitious one Priit had ever given. They were a collection of truths on how the People should live. A single collection which was universal and would be maintained. It would be impossible, Priit knew, to find something to apply to every situation. All he could do was encode a few truths and hurl them into the future, hoping that future generations would pick up the burden in turn for future generations.
In the end, Priit decided that the core message he would send was:
[ ] [Core] On Behalf of Future Generations.
[ ] [Core] Revere the Spirits
[ ] [Core] Social Unity
[ ] [Core] Balance of People
[ ] [Core] Power in all Things
[ ] [Core] Benefit the Land
Megaproject Completed: The Law (Neolithic)!
The People's code of laws are beyond ancient, more of a primordial mien, from a time that's literally lost to time. Primarily, the Law is a collection of codified stories, a canon that shows the People how to build a good life. While still open for further development, the Law goes a long way to creating a uniformity of culture and expectation of internal unity.
Effects: Increase Centralization cap by +1, grant access to Push Unity action, accelerate development of Culture resource, ???
Effects: Increase Centralization cap by +1, grant access to Push Unity action, accelerate development of Culture resource, ???
Legacy Gained: Primordial Law
The People's Law is of an ancient sort, far beyond recorded history. Nonetheless, the mores and values instilled by the stories, myths, and fables, are an enduring part of the People's legacy. In time, they will shift, but the underlying message; that the People's ancestors had entrusted their children with a great covenant of faith to truly make their own and develop with their own wisdom, was greatly reassuring.
Effects: Gain a one time Stability increase when completing a Social Reform megaproject.
Effects: Gain a one time Stability increase when completing a Social Reform megaproject.
When everything was finally done, Priit felt free for the first time in his life. As the years moved on, it seemed like a smile was permanently fixed to his face. Working with children, resolving disputes, none of the difficulties of leadership could possibly bother him. Here he was, an elder, and these few years were the first that he could recall without war. No comrades choking on their own blood, none impaled and left to die over the course of days. No more kith and kin whom he saw leave with a wave confident wave, never to return.
None of the tales coming up from the Island Makers bothered him. The tales of a tribe in the far off west having tamed the unconquered sun and brought the celestial orb to earth were impressive, but far removed. Stories of scarred men slowly showing themselves along the south shore of the Island Makers lake, were also distant. The Pearl Divers returning, having completed the final Saltern that they could within their lands and bringing with them more of the precious substance than the People could ever use, was a happy moment. The fact that the Pearl Divers further realized the People's wisdom in seeking challenge left him nothing but pleased.
Spiritual Advisers Triggers: Whole Hearted -> Trial By Fire
It was only when a young man from Arrow Lake approached him in audiance at the Fingers that Priit's smiled died for the first time in years.
"We know," the young man had said in his own tongue. "Of how you supply the Worker Tribes. This ends. Today. You conspire and enable their crimes against the Bluestone People. In gracious recompense for your crimes of theft, murder, and treachery, the Ancients of the Lake have allowed you a single opportunity to redeem yourselves. The losses you've inflicted on us will be compensated for. For every man, woman, or child harmed, you shall provide one individual to the Ancients so that their lost labours can be made up. You have one moon to begin providing Debtors." The People's word tested almost poisonous on the young man's tongue.
As the boy turned and left, something came over Priit and he felt tears fall from his eyes for the first time in years.
How do you respond to Arrow Lake's ultimatum?
[ ] [Ask] Concede on every point.
[ ] [Ask] Partially concede. Stop feeding the Mountain Clans and raid them for workers to pay off Arrow Lake.
[ ] [Ask] Refuse all of their demands.
[ ] [Ask] Bring it, boy.
AN: Sorry this took so long. You managed to gain an extra action on The Law due to spectacular rolls (100, 98, 89) so I had to rush through the system changes faster than I thought I would need to. They will be up in 20.0, whether that's next update or in two updates.
- Location
- Somewhere
What is this? I'm actually lost on why Priit is sad, and what happened to make the young man even try diplomacy.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
War has come back, just before he passes away. He wont die knowing peace, but yet more war.
Priit knows that this means war. Arrow Lake isn't offering diplomacy, they are offering an ultimatum: stop feeding the Mountain Clans and give us slaves, or else. They are not interested in diplomacy at all, they think they can take you so, to them, you capitulate or die and then they take their slaves.
Priit knows that even if he doesn't die in this upcoming war, the end of his life will be consumed by it.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
- Location
- Somewhere
Why bother with diplomacy first if they think we are weaker? Why hasn't the young man arrived with an army, then tried diplomacy?
Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
...uh, Arrow Lake, I've got some bad news.
We, on the other hand, have recovered our numbers without losing our hardened tag, and have multiple supporting combat-spec holy orders. Not only that, we have advanced high-quality tools, which means weapons and armor, and they have... art. It would take a staggering amount of luck for Arrow Lake to overcome our advantages. They've just never seen us go to war because we've fought our wars a long, long way away from them, so they don't know or appreciate how dangerous the wolverine whose tail they just stepped on is.
The other option is that our leaderboard is wildly inaccurate, of course, which is possible. But I think we still have a steady trading relationship with Arrow Lake so we'd probably have noticed any particularly severe shifts in their military.
Now, sure, the leaderboard might not be completely updated right now... but I'm pretty sure it hasn't changed that much. Arrow Lake is willing to throw down an ultimatum like this because their militia is well-fed and has been effortlessly beating the crap out of the Mountain Clans in their slave raids, so they think they're actually good at fighting. They don't have a big army- no "numerous" tag or anything similar, and it's still informal so they don't even have professional warriors to do their slave raiding yet, in spite of the fact that they do so much slave raiding they've literally renamed the Mountain Clans to "Worker Tribes".
We, on the other hand, have recovered our numbers without losing our hardened tag, and have multiple supporting combat-spec holy orders. Not only that, we have advanced high-quality tools, which means weapons and armor, and they have... art. It would take a staggering amount of luck for Arrow Lake to overcome our advantages. They've just never seen us go to war because we've fought our wars a long, long way away from them, so they don't know or appreciate how dangerous the wolverine whose tail they just stepped on is.
The other option is that our leaderboard is wildly inaccurate, of course, which is possible. But I think we still have a steady trading relationship with Arrow Lake so we'd probably have noticed any particularly severe shifts in their military.
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Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
- Location
- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...
I do heartily believe that it is, once again, time for a reminder of why we are the Twin-Souled; bringing in one hand gifts and friendship, and in the other a great black sword. Fuck 'em.
[ ] [Gov] The People should deffer now to a single leader.
[ ] [Record] In full, as well as the People could commit it to stone.
[] [Core] On Behalf of Future Generations.
[ ] [Ask] Bring it, boy.
I do heartily believe that it is, once again, time for a reminder of why we are the Twin-Souled; bringing in one hand gifts and friendship, and in the other a great black sword. Fuck 'em.
[ ] [Gov] The People should deffer now to a single leader.
[ ] [Record] In full, as well as the People could commit it to stone.
[] [Core] On Behalf of Future Generations.
[ ] [Ask] Bring it, boy.
- Location
- Somewhere
edit: I forgot the smoke signals variable. I honestly didn't realize the signals could be a detriment to Arrow Lake.
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Because they believe we may submit which honestly if this was a real civ and not a SV ran civ they may have been right.