The longer this takes the more likely it is Malekith will manage to pull off a hail mary to turn Tor Dynal into Arks.

On the other hand, attacking now is kind of doing what high elves have always been doing. Note that the characters supporting the assault are notorious hotheads (except Teclis, but he's apparently pretty miffed about that arm).

If it goes the way I think it will go, I know I'll have very mixed feelings about the whole thing. On one hand, it'll be hard to argue that this wasn't a victory for us. Malekith lost an Ark, some sorceresses, a bunch of his infiltrators (and I assume that he didn't send us his rejects when it came to trying to blow us up) and he will have nothing to show for it, beside messing up Chrace a bit (and the kingdom didn't even entirely fall). On the other hand... I can't help but be frustrated by the fact there was clearly room to do better. Him coming on Ulthuan while not being quite ready for a full invasion was courting disaster, and in the end, it seems we won't manage to make him pay for it as much as we could have.

At the very least, I hope we will manage to scrounge a few dice for the following turns to keep up some pressure, if only via naval warfare. I get that everyone is tired of the war turns, but having him leave and say "good enough!" seems like something the asur have done way too often (granted, they often had little choice in the matter).
 
should that be "do no more than"?
There's always something. Thanks.
I think you overestimate how well he's doing.

Our plan's not working as we desired, but he's paying a high cost and he's not getting what he wants either.

That said, yes, we had some serious flaws in our plan.
Wellll, yes and no. The plan was pretty solid, and probably would have forced an effective engagement. The problem was that you didn't bring a significant skirmishing element, so your only way of forcing Malekith to actually give battle was a Coil saying "he really doesn't want to run away."

Which could have worked! ... but then you threw like 10 dice worth of troops at him and he took one look and decided ha ha ha nope, screwed at that.

Worth remembering, you got a peek at Malekith's journals about this campaign, and so far at least he's keeping fairly rational about it. On the one hand, that means he's unlikely to throw a screaming tantrum at an unpredictable instance, but it also makes him harder to bait.

That said, it's not like you got away with nothing. He had to shed basically his entire complement of slaves to wriggle free, and while there is a new set garrisoning Tor Dynal, the ratio now looks very different. This campaign started with about a 1:1.5 ratio of Druchii to slaves, but that's probably closer to the reverse now. He's running out of meatshields, and historically that's usually the point that the Druchii start seriously considering bugging out.
@Imrix Did Teclis have enough time to mess with the ritual sites so that they couldn't be used, or could Malekith press the button and split Tor Dynal off with maybe an hour or two of prep?
He messed with some of them, yes, but both sides had to be pretty cagey with their wizards, and he didn't have a tremendous amount of time. The ritual could still go ahead - that said, it's not like they're any more able to march a conclave of sorceresses overland now that you've parked your army so close to the walls, so there are serious limits on how big a chunk of rock they could potentially crack off.
 
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The problem was that you didn't bring a significant skirmishing element, so your only way of forcing Malekith to actually give battle was a Col saying "he really doesn't want to run away."

... and now I'm even more salty.

would a coil that we managed to force him into a defensible but hard to escape from canyon or pass work?

Honestly, I don't think so. Ultimately, it's as simple as that: as long as he could retreat, he was not going to fight a huge army led by Tyrion + Alarielle + all of the dragons while he's suffering from depleted resources. The only way was to force him to stand and fight, because he certainly wasn't going to do it willingly.
 
[X] – Press this advantage! Storm the walls immediately and advance into the city. (x1.6)

Our chase draws to a close. May the Savage Huntress not be slighted in this matter and let us give Anath Raema her due credit.
Fell deeds await. May our soldiers appease Khaine with their bloody hands and not their bloody hearts.
Isha keep Ulthuan's loyal scions from the Pale Queen's grip, Asuryan inspire our leaders, Hoeth give them wisdom and Vaul grant us the strength to bear this hardship.
The more zealous suggest it is a portent of Isha's changing face, that in these cruel times even the Great Mother girds herself for battle.
Concerning that the face of The Mother should be hardened so in the Asur's rejection of their darker impulses.

One would wonder if it wouldn't be better to accept said impulses so that such a visage need not grow grimmer.
 
[X] – Press this advantage! Storm the walls immediately and advance into the city. (x1.6)
fuck it lets do this. eat shit malekith.
 
well good to know the perfect hindsight solution wouldn't have worked.
Real talk? I'm generally fairly averse to perfect solutions, hindsight or otherwise. It cheapens the story. Did you ever read Renegade Reinterpretations? There's a passage there that rings true for me, typo's and all;
Chapter 67 said:
Why have such a bloody Suicide Mission?

Well, to start with, it's a suicide mission. While I know many who disagree, I am a firm believer that the only thing less plausible than overcoming impossible odds is overcoming impossible odds without significant costs. And it's also one of the themes of Renegade Reinterpretations: victory comes with sacrifice. People, ideals, whatever. Shepard lost a team member to Saren on Virmire, and the Collector Base was supposed to be far worse than that. Now it is.

One aspect about character death that undermines the effects of 'optional' deaths is that people feel like any avoidable character death is a punishment. Often it is: less story, less satisfying substitues, or simple lack of content. A good example is Wrex and Wreave: in ME2, Wrex's substitute is not only worse for the galaxy and the Krogan, but he's also worse for the player: none of the Wrex-awesome. It's definitely the 'worse' alternative. But when a character death is absolutely unavoidable no matter what, it loses much of its weight due to foreshadowing and unavoidability: it's far harder to hold weight, and can become the cheap sympathy gimmick. Who felt bad about the death of Nihlus?

But when deach is affectable, but not avoidable, you get into some pretty potent territory. The reason that Virmire stands out in ME1 is because of the Ash/Kaiden decision, not Wrex. Wrex's death is avoidable, easily so: have the persuasion check, or do his quest. Once you know about it, it's easy to avoid, and so choosing the 'bad' alternative and killing Wrex has to be a deliberate choice. The same applies with deaths in the Suicide Mission of ME2. But with Ashley and Kaiden, it isn't avoidable: no matter how well you fight, how high your paragon/renegade bar, how awesome your upgrades, someone will die. But the player is still involved: the one who dies is up to you and your influences. Neither Ash or Kaiden is guaranteed to die, but one of them has to.


Of course, this isn't hard for everyone. Some people hate one or the other. Understandable, and unavoidable. If you like one but not the other, it's hardly tough. But with the suicide mission, you have a larger group of people, and a larger group of potential sacrifices: while it may be easy to not care about any one of them, few people will want to see a third of the characters bite the dust. Fewer still will be able to easily arrange which third will: imagine the people who try and leave two unloyal/wounded Vanguards to cover the retreat because they want them to die, only to lose all their survivors as well.

Hands up: who romanced a character their first time, and then stuck them as a mission specialist because you thought they were awesome and you wanted them to prove it? Wrestled with Garrus, and then put him as team leader both times? Did snu-snu with Tali, and then trusted her to do the vents and get you through safely?

Now, who would be affected by hearing Tali burn alive in the vents so soon after a romance scene? Or trusting Garrus to keep it up as a fire team leader twice, only to see him fail? Or someone who romanced Thane and sent him as the Assassin, believing that somehow he'd survive certain death?

There's an element of unpredictability, unexpected results, and far more variation to make the mission feel dangerous. The Suicide Mission is no longer 'did you have everyone's loyalty and pick obvious best choices for a perfect ending': when perfection is impossible, and there is no shame in losing people, the question is preference and results.

Ask not 'did you lose anyone': instead ask 'who did you lose.' The first is a question of success and failure: the second has no stigma.
You were never going to get a perfect engagement out of this. Not against Malekith. Even with a Coil affecting his judgement, he wouldn't have given battle on terms that wouldn't let him at least make a fight of it, and that would have cost you.

Sometimes there is no perfect solution, you know? But the choice of which imperfect solution, of what you value most, that's interesting. So, you didn't fully rout Malekith's army, and you didn't stop him reinforcing Tor Dynal. But you did keep him from getting into Cothique, you drastically cut down on his stock of meatshields, you forced him into a humiliating defeat, and you suffered minimal casualties - Teclis' army is a little messed up, but the core of it is solid and it was always the smaller force.

In other words,

 
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@Imrix if we choose the fleet option, is it believed that we can successfully blockade the city? we need to keep these guys here somehow
 
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The problem was that you didn't bring a significant skirmishing element
Once more that 'throw Skirmishers at heavily guarded sorceresses' plan comes back to haunt us.

On a side note who was in charge of dispelling enemy magic? Because it would seem the fool not only failed to disrupt enemy casting but didn't even notice it happening. That kind of incompetence warrants being fired. Preferably from a cannon.

On a different side note: IOU from the Everqueen. Yay.
 
Once more that 'throw Skirmishers at heavily guarded sorceresses' plan comes back to haunt us.

Ok, I voted against that particular plan, but I don't think it's fair to blame it for this particular problem. I mean, yes, we couldn't put that much dice into Naggartyhean forces, but we still had Ellyrians available. There was an argument to use exactly that, unfortunately the majority didn't go with it.
 
Ah well. I suppose we'll have to settle for "we sank a Black Ark in the first day of the invasion and killed a bunch of sorceresses while not losing anything irreplaceable". And hey, maybe I'm wrong and storming the keep now will allow us to kill something important.
Actually, a dragon and two dragonblade ships died when we killed the Black Ark so we also lost somethings that are mostly irreplaceable.

Our overall strategic goal is to replenish the Asur population. Fighting bloody battles works counter to it and shouldn't be done unless absolutely necessary. Storming Tor Dynal now would possibly prevent a smaller scale ritual than originally planned or maybe Teclis disrupted the ritual enough to make it impossible to succeed. In which case storming Tor Dynal gains us very little.

Furthermore attacking means Teclis and Tyrion and Malekith are on the same battlefield. DOOM incoming.

Therefore I believe the costs of attacking outweigh the benefits.
[X] – Dig in, consolidate your supply lines, lock the city down and siege it. (x1.2)
 
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Once more that 'throw Skirmishers at heavily guarded sorceresses' plan comes back to haunt us.
Reminder; Ellyrians were available on mass, we simply didnt choose them for this plan.

Also Reminder; this update specifically points out how we utterly stripped Malekith of his shield because he simply does not have the Sorceresses left to contest our own Mages. By gutting his Sorceresses we have secured for ourselves an magical edge. Yes, he can cover that up with the Arks now, but nevertheless that only works to an extent. With their numbers heavily depleted and Warpstones spent, there is only so much the remainder can do against our much bigger force of Spellcasters
 
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@Imrix if we choose the fleet option, is it believed that we can successfully blockade the city? we need to keep these guys here somehow
If you want to. Or you could build him a golden bridge to retreat across, if you want to keep casualties lower. It's a general-purpose "get the fleet involved" action. It also probably lets you include characters and specialist troops who were heretofore stuck at Tor Achare, like Caradryan and the Phoenix Guard.
On a side note who was in charge of dispelling enemy magic? Because it would seem the fool not only failed to disrupt enemy casting but didn't even notice it happening. That kind of incompetence warrants being fired. Preferably from a cannon.
Generic Sapherian Wizard #171 has received your complaints, and blames it on the illusions being cast ahead of time when you were still too far to get a good look at what was happening, then subsequently hidden under the general storm of Aethyric activity stirred up by assorted daemonic sacrifices and the presence of a Black Ark.
 
Honestly if Malekith wasn't about to try and steal one of our cities, I'd be predisposed to letting him just leave we seem to have gained a decisive long term lead in naval affairs and be developing faster so that him not winning a decisive victory right now equates to serious loss to him.
 
Honestly if Malekith wasn't about to try and steal one of our cities, I'd be predisposed to letting him just leave we seem to have gained a decisive long term lead in naval affairs and be developing faster so that him not winning a decisive victory right now equates to serious loss to him.
It barely counts as a city though.
it was never a major settlement, more citadel than city
 
Generic Sapherian Wizard #171 has received your complaints
By the gods!
You mean to say that this army is accompanied by the Two-Ton #171?
Why didn't you say so earlier? I must've completely forgotten that we'd selected him as one of the legendary heroes accompanying our army! Truly this decisively tips the scales in our favour! CHAAAARGE!
[X] – Press this advantage! Storm the walls immediately and advance into the city.(x1.6)
 
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