Writing a novel (is terrible and I hate myself)

BiopunkOtrera

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So as some people may know I'm working on a novel right now, (the first week's work being, along with my usual insomnia why I haven't updated quests all week).

I'm not going to talk about what it is I'm writing (yet, it'll probably come up in a future post), so much as to write out the stress and problems of actually writing a novel, the constant worry you're not doing enough, the fear and annoyance and comfort eating of the end, the dirty glass problem where scenes that look good in your head don't look so good when you wrote them down, and generally how I stay productive and the problems I encounter. I don't necessarily want solutions, I just want to record them because fuck getting a blog.

One really annoying thing I've noticed when I force myself to write is that I start to have less and less details, characters discuss things in white room empty rooms which are mostly just dialogue. They fall into the nods grinning school of body language or acquire jokeresk fixed grins. I have a real problem with my writing being too minimalistic, if I forget, it all has to be fixed in editing, which is one reason my edits tend to be longer than my first drafts.

I'm also dyslexic so homophones, punctuation and so on don't come naturally, and I often spot weird problems as I go through.

This all has to be fixed in editing. However editing can introduce its own wierdnesses and editing artifacts into the text, especially when I forget to remove something I wrote and then add another sentence or part of one onto it, creating a tortured linguistic nightmare, a literary chimera who's abominable existence blights the page.

In order to write a lot, I do two things. First I create future scenes of the novel that I want to get too, thus motivating me to push forward. This I'd recommend to all writers. The other thing I do is alter my headspace so what I'm writing is the most exciting thing possible. This allows me to create a vast amount of writing but it also makes me insufferable. I'm quite willing to chatter in the most annoying way about what I'm writing, and needily spam my friends with new graphs in the desperate hope of recognition and approval and that they will feel the same false euphoria over it that I've induced in myself.

You can data dump as much as you want but it's best if you attach it to a character and their internal monologue. You don't need a lot of dialogue for it but you do need a perspective so it's not wierdly free standing. It's still better if you can do it through conversation though, except when you can't. In general the "don't info dump" thing is the worst advice for new writers, especially of genre fic. It's an authorial basilisk hack. If you know it you'll be afraid of info dumping when you need to, but equally if you try to abandon the advice you'll end up vomiting infodump over everyone.
 
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3495955&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=154

A post I found on SA that really sums up the experience of trying to write full time. The difference for me is I write from home not in a starbux.

Rarely do I roll a 6.

Article:
I'm writing full time and here's my schedule

ROLL 1D6

6: Write 5000 words, go home wishing you could keep going all night and forever because you're so high. Realize you have had so much caffeine you will never sleep. Thrash and suffer.
5: Write 2000 words. They're okay. Defer your crushing anxiety about your book's structure and marketability to another day.
3-4: Dribble out a thousand words of interminably slack bullshit. Resolve to tear them down tomorrow and replace them. Hold your head in your hands. Sigh. Realize you are wearing headphones and everyone around you is probably fed up with your sad sack bullshit.
1-2: Stare at your screen for four hours. Order pastries. Think about the weather, your recent dietary choices, last night's sleep, last week's sleep, your vitamins, whether or not the cute barista is on shift, the font you're using, and your editor's last text message whether or not namedropping 'my editor' makes you intolerable to everyone around you. Choose something to blame for your total block. Resolve to be more constructive about the problem. Wail at the thought of doing anything constructive to solve anything. Gnaw at the amount of time you're wasting on this onanistic self-degradation when you could be writing. Complain on social media. Delete the post. Nothing will ever be okay again.
 
I remember when I was younger I had a horrible tendency to write like 5-6 chapters or a story and then just abandon it because no storyboarding/got bored/did the horrible, horrible thing where you read the first chapter again, say "my god I must fix all of this", resolve to fix it, then don't. Then don't have motivation to continue, then abandon it.

I've found that hardcore storyboarding can help a ton. For Magna Graecia I am aware of everything that will happen until the year 350 BCE; details of what's happening in the city will change and shift behind the scenes but otherwise I know exactly what's happening. This gives me way more confidence- I can even leave it for a few days because I know I have something to come back to.

With storyboarding, the most essential thing to realize is that it's not canon. No one can see your storyboard except you. I've seen people paralyzed to change long-term plot elements or things way in the future because how could they, it's already written?!

But as long as it doesn't completely trash your story changing your plans should be natural.
 
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The worst thing is getting half way through a story and then finding that your structure or some earlier plot point doesn't work and having to go back and revise everything. I find I have difficulty being creative without having done something (this is a reason why the initial scenes of a novel are always so difficult to write, especially as they need to be a significant spike on the engagement curve) because they're without context.

This means I sometimes go forward, find something would work better with how the novel has developed and then panic and fall into a pit of self loathing as I think how much must be changed.

I generally don't storyboard, or at least, I don't write it down if I do. I might start for this novel.
 
I generally don't storyboard, or at least, I don't write it down if I do. I might start for this novel.

It's seriously recommended. The problem with sticking it all in your head is that you'll forget elements, or fuck up something, or get the dirty glass effect, not even because you have trouble translating it but because you never wrote it down so you've forgotten parts of what made it so good.
 
It's seriously recommended. The problem with sticking it all in your head is that you'll forget elements, or fuck up something, or get the dirty glass effect, not even because you have trouble translating it but because you never wrote it down so you've forgotten parts of what made it so good.

I've tried it in the past and I've found it doesn't really work for me and I often waste time on it that would be better used for actual writing.

Generally I can hold the most important elements of a story in my head, so I do that, and fill in the bits between them in relatively spontaneous fashion. It doesn't always work but I've never found that storyboarding everything does either.
 
I've tried it in the past and I've found it doesn't really work for me and I often waste time on it that would be better used for actual writing.

Generally I can hold the most important elements of a story in my head, so I do that, and fill in the bits between them in relatively spontaneous fashion. It doesn't always work but I've never found that storyboarding everything does either.

Well I mean @Tempera wrote this piece on it. It's something to consider and experiment with- for me, a timeline-type storyboard is something I was familiar with, so all of my storyboarding is

489 BCE: shit happens, so does this
488 BCE: Shit caused more shit, disaster

But you might want to try and see if other types of plotting works for you.
 
I have a terrible time writing as well. I've got a notebook with ideas for stories and fanfics I want to write, but every time I sit down at a computer to hack them out I end up staring at the watched threads page and hitting F5 instead.

Best advice I can come up with is keep on trucking on, honestly.
 
Best advice I can come up with is keep on trucking on, honestly.

It often feels like you're Marlin when you're writing, anyway. Your face is covered in salty water (in this case, your tears of frustration). You get so discouraged in your task that you get grumpy and tired. If you stick to the caffeine enough, you too will be seeing singing blue fishes.

But yes, @FBH. Honestly, you've kind of skipped a few steps, so I'm not sure what to offer you, but at the least get a basic storyboard down so you know what you're writing.
 
If you use a laptop, I suggest using Scrivener

It makes the entire process so much smoother that it's unbelievable between the organization of different documents for storyboarding, notes, research, actual drafts, and etc

Its amazing
 
But yes, @FBH. Honestly, you've kind of skipped a few steps, so I'm not sure what to offer you, but at the least get a basic storyboard down so you know what you're writing.

I don't, as I said up front, want you to solve my problems. I'm mostly here to talk about what my problems are.

That said, I am going to write some notes and a story board. Expect some new updates (on how it's possible to writers block against a storyboard) and me to quote your post yet again tomorrow.

Also: the trials of an aromantic male who might need to write a romantic subplot between two women.
 
I feel the general "novel writing is horrible" pain. Mind if I add my personal situation @FBH ?

I started trying to write a novel just recently, coming in with very little creative writing experience, but with plenty of experience of reading (and teaching) literature. By "just recently" I actually mean "about 3 months ago". In that time I have written 4,000 words. Not quite one chapter.

I work full time, and so the writing is supposed to be just a fun little thing on the side, but... surely writing for fun should involve some actual, you know, writing.

The odd thing is that I don't think storyboarding is a problem for me. I think I've just about storyboarded the whole trilogy, filling in plot holes as I think of them. I have details and backstories for protagonists, antagonists and support characters. I have invented and named technologies and scientific ideas, and created backstories for them too. I've even fully plotted the fictional book-within-a-book on which the trilogy's central plot crucially hinges.

All this, and yet I've still only managed about 4000 words.

And I kind of think that a good quarter of those are shit.

I need advice - should I continue flailing away, or just shut my laptop, quietly sit in the corner and pretend that this never, ever happened? Or is there a third option?

HELP!
 
Try writing some shorter stuff of about 4000 words first and build up. Try nanowirmo.

I already outlined a couple of strategies I have for just writing.

Today I'm actually doing my story board and character board.
 
And I kind of think that a good quarter of those are shit.

A quarter is probably generous.

Try this: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...-mettle-and-sharpen-your-writing-skills.2224/ . Most people seem to manage about 400 words in 15 minutes. Do that. Get used to doing that. Don't stop writing during those 15 minutes. If you're on a roll, keep writing after the time limit. If not, take a 5 minute break, exercise a bit, get get a snack, whatever, and try again.
 
A quarter is probably generous.

Try this: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...-mettle-and-sharpen-your-writing-skills.2224/ . Most people seem to manage about 400 words in 15 minutes. Do that. Get used to doing that. Don't stop writing during those 15 minutes. If you're on a roll, keep writing after the time limit. If not, take a 5 minute break, exercise a bit, get get a snack, whatever, and try again.

400 words in 15 minutes? Last night, I wrote about 400 words in about 5 hours, and it's the most prolific I have been for about two months.
 
And then I litterally got writers block while trying to write my story board.

Fortunately I've figured out how to do it now. This is kind of fascinating. I wish I'd known this earlier.

Another question to people: I'm an aromantic white straight hetrosexual male. However in my book there is precisely one other straight, white hetrosexual male. I think that it would be good to have a romantic subplot. Here is me asking for advice: What's a good way to go about writing a romantic subplot that doesn't come across as suspect despite my lack of experience?
 
One really annoying thing I've noticed when I force myself to write is that I start to have less and less details, characters discuss things in white room empty rooms which are mostly just dialogue. They fall into the nods grinning school of body language or acquire jokeresk fixed grins. I have a real problem with my writing being too minimalistic, if I forget, it all has to be fixed in editing, which is one reason my edits tend to be longer than my first drafts.

Like any creative task you can only get so much done in so little time. Your brain needs time to fill in what should be there in the background. It needs time to imagine the space and characters. It needs time to create prose. Writing does not just take place at a desk it takes place all the time, while your walking, while you're working, while you're cooking, or even laying in bed before falling asleep.

I've only really written fanfiction but I've certainly had times where I've been writing almost mechanically to advance the plot. It's a horrible way to be and when it happens consider taking a step back.

If you have a private place where you can do things (or very understanding roommates) act out the parts. Try to pretend you're the character. Or if you're having a battle break out the old action figures and army men and play it out across the floor of your living room. It can be seriously cathartic and engages different parts of your brain that don't normally get much exercise while writing.

This all has to be fixed in editing. However editing can introduce its own wierdnesses and editing artifacts into the text, especially when I forget to remove something I wrote and then add another sentence or part of one onto it, creating a tortured linguistic nightmare, a literary chimera who's abominable existence blights the page.

There's a reason editors are usually not a work's writer as well. You will not have the perspective to do this properly with your own work and probably need someone you can trust to bounce ideas off of.

In order to write a lot, I do two things. First I create future scenes of the novel that I want to get too, thus motivating me to push forward. This I'd recommend to all writers. The other thing I do is alter my headspace so what I'm writing is the most exciting thing possible. This allows me to create a vast amount of writing but it also makes me insufferable. I'm quite willing to chatter in the most annoying way about what I'm writing, and needily spam my friends with new graphs in the desperate hope of recognition and approval and that they will feel the same false euphoria over it that I've induced in myself.

Don't worry we all know that feel. :(
 
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Here is me asking for advice: What's a good way to go about writing a romantic subplot that doesn't come across as suspect despite my lack of experience?

If you're willing to accept the advice of another aromantic white straight hetrosexual male . . . and this sounds really silly . . . play it cool. Try to imagine why the two characters might get along in the first place and go from there. Don't make a big deal about it, don't shove it in the reader's faces, just give hints that something is progressing in the background. You'll get in more trouble by drawing too much attention to it than keeping the details vague.
 
Another question to people: I'm an aromantic white straight hetrosexual male. However in my book there is precisely one other straight, white hetrosexual male. I think that it would be good to have a romantic subplot. Here is me asking for advice: What's a good way to go about writing a romantic subplot that doesn't come across as suspect despite my lack of experience?

Without knowing the specifics of what you're writing about and the sort of character you're writing about apart, I can only suggest to simply play it straight (no pun intended). Don't sweat it, see why the two characters you have in mind connect on such a level, and what they want out of the relationship. Did they already have a desire to find a romantic partner? Did it happen out of circumstances? For internal conflict, consider their personal fears and anxieties: e.g. self-image issues.

Just treat it like what it is: a narrative arc that develops two characters in a certain direction. There was an SV thread about it a while ago that may help you... although you probably know about it since you also posted there :p

But it is a good thread not just because of the sensible advice but also considers the context of the way in which people connect and how our socialising has been changed by technology like Tinder and OkCupid. Obviously I don't know if your novel is in a modern context or the importance of said romantic subplot, but it's something to consider.

If you want to really humanise it and make it down to earth, the best thing to keep in mind is just how weird people are. A couple accidentally discovering that Chinese plastic takeout boxes float in the bath or helping each other stumble home drunk might not seem like a romance for the ages, but it's a pleasant touch that makes them come to life and it's something I personally prefer to a really cut-and-dry romance plot.

A memorable scene in Her, one of my favourite films about love in the modern age lasts for no more than two to three seconds; it's a flashback to the protagonist's ex as they bat at each other wearing orange traffic cones.

But yeah, just some thoughts.
 
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I feel the general "novel writing is horrible" pain. Mind if I add my personal situation @FBH ?

I started trying to write a novel just recently, coming in with very little creative writing experience, but with plenty of experience of reading (and teaching) literature. By "just recently" I actually mean "about 3 months ago". In that time I have written 4,000 words. Not quite one chapter.

I work full time, and so the writing is supposed to be just a fun little thing on the side, but... surely writing for fun should involve some actual, you know, writing.

The odd thing is that I don't think storyboarding is a problem for me. I think I've just about storyboarded the whole trilogy, filling in plot holes as I think of them. I have details and backstories for protagonists, antagonists and support characters. I have invented and named technologies and scientific ideas, and created backstories for them too. I've even fully plotted the fictional book-within-a-book on which the trilogy's central plot crucially hinges.

All this, and yet I've still only managed about 4000 words.

And I kind of think that a good quarter of those are shit.

I need advice - should I continue flailing away, or just shut my laptop, quietly sit in the corner and pretend that this never, ever happened? Or is there a third option?

HELP!
I'm constantly busy, either with work or studying, so I don't have a lot of time to write. When I do write it's usually around a 1000 words in 40 minutes but I usually don't have that much free time. Storyboard is a good way for me to outline my plot and see where it goes, but it also helps me to write faster in a pinch.

The technique I use to help me when I can't just come up with anything on the spot is to take my storyboard entries and expand upon them. For example, you have your first chapter on your storyboard and a general idea of where you want to go with it. Write out your main points for the chapter in bullet points, read over them and expand upon them (add details that enhance but don't clatter). Rinse and repeat until you have a full chapter. But don't force yourself if you ran out of inspiration, you will usually write sub par compared to your normal writing and you will later delete that anyway.

Another question to people: I'm an aromantic white straight hetrosexual male. However in my book there is precisely one other straight, white hetrosexual male. I think that it would be good to have a romantic subplot. Here is me asking for advice: What's a good way to go about writing a romantic subplot that doesn't come across as suspect despite my lack of experience?
Stay away from anime cliches? ;)

Honestly, the best way to do it is with experience under your belt, go forth and experience those things! Of course, you can substitute it with someone who does have experience, is willing to be totally honest about it and help you out. You can also read up on a few best sellers with romance as the main part of the plot and you can get some inspiration from there. Some of those books are actually pretty spot on with how romance works in real life but others simply dramatize it too much but it sells.

But @illusivepunk actually gives good advice, don't try to force things. The romance in novels is mainly about how characters interact, how those interactions affect them and the world around them. You can insert some drama if you like, but try to keep it sweet and simple, this approach usually works just fine.
 
Another question to people: I'm an aromantic white straight hetrosexual male. However in my book there is precisely one other straight, white hetrosexual male. I think that it would be good to have a romantic subplot. Here is me asking for advice: What's a good way to go about writing a romantic subplot that doesn't come across as suspect despite my lack of experience?
Don't bother writing a romantic subplot unless doing so is required for the rest of the plot.

Shipping lanes can handle themselves without the author's input, nine times out of ten.

If someone comes up with one you really like, you can pretend you actually intended for it to be there all along.
 
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