Wormverse ideas, recs, and fic discussion thread 1

Buy the building she lives in?
Have her baby kidnapped?
Convince her that at least he isn't as bad as Kaiser, and is willing to grease the legal wheels of her attempting to go legit if she targets a few of his rivals?
excellent points don't forget Penguin is first and foremost a gentleman and once tried going legit so he knows how hard that is and the unwritten rules don't mean anything to batman's villains.

If Jack decides to slash up the park he will find himself turned into a tree before you can say green thumb and unlike the locals none of the meta's will fall for Jack's mind control. and I think the Joker would take Jack slash as a personal affront as a two bit ripoff.

Just realised that in worm the Joker may initially come across as an ultra violent vigilante with collateral damage especially if you use the version of Joker gas that doesn't kill but leaves people paralysed with a Joker grin an uncontrollable laugh and white skin, which I think was the more terrifying version, because the Joker gas that killed people could only kill them but the BTAS Joker gas locked them in their own bodies aware and helpless, which I think is both more creative and scarier because even if it could be reversed it could only be reversed if you were found.
 
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or the much more deadly Deadshot or if he wanted Slade the terminator.

I mean, my point is that you shouldn't frame the crossover in terms of Batman capes vs Worm capes as opposed to having everything quickly dissolve into a complex network of alliances, everyone rushing to make use of new opportunities and plundering everything other world has to offer that they can get their hands on.

The vs things just encourages fandom dick-measuring (the whole thing started with a bold assertion that obviously Batman villains would curbstomp Worm villains if not nerfed), which is unfair to Batman because obviously Worm is better.
 
Yeah, that's not gonna be in my idea that's something the local Gotham citizens are going to do. :)
god the gothamite vs brocktonite rivalry! can you imagine one side starts griping ABOUT A CLOWN and the other side goes well we have nazis and just suddenly a mob of gothamites descend on the E88 like a group of over caffeinated vampires hell bent on destroying them and then someone mentions the dog fighting within earshot of Harley Quinn and Ivy and suddenly Hookwolf is a topiary that looks like it got beaten with a hammer.
 
It should be noted that most of the E88 aren't actually Nazis, and while it doesn't make much of a difference to people on this forum, in Gotham a Nazi is an invader while a White Nationalist is just another random scumbag to add to the hundreds already living in the city.
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Also, there are people in the E88 that were legit brainswashed by a cult to be what they currently are.
 
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It should be noted that most of the E88 aren't actually Nazis, and while it doesn't make much of a difference to people on this forum, in Gotham a Nazi is an invader while a White Nationalist is just another random scumbag to add to the hundreds already living in the city.
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Also, there are people in the E88 that were legit brainswashed by a cult to be what they currently are.
i always forget americans don't beat up white supremacists like we do here, here in australia we let them know they aren't welcome
 
So I have an idea based on the premise of the new crossover fic Gotham New Neighbor fic
forums.spacebattles.com

Gotham New Neighbor (Worm/Batman)

Due to an experimental Bakuda bomb, all of Brockton Bay disappears from Earth Beth, the positive side of this is that Gotham City now has a new neighbor The world of DC will be mainly based on the webcomic "Batman Adventures of the Wayne Family", although it will have elements from other...

But in reverse as instead of entire city of Brockton Bay being teleported next to Gotham City it's instead Gotham City being Teleported next to Brockton Bay.(pre-canon)

Now for this type of crossover you may think I may go with the concept of "Gotham villains curb stomp the Brockton Bay villains" but no because while most of the villains Gotham City are tech based... however the problem for them is a lot of the materials they use don't exist in Earth-Bet forcing to preserve what they have but eventually they are going to run out and won't make anymore of stuff.

So villains like the Mad Hatter, Bane, Professor Pyg, and Mister Freeze are serious trouble.. save for the Scarecrow who does not need his fear toxin to crippled an entire city.

Meanwhile the Batfamily (save Nightwing and Batwing who weren't in the city at the time) does not like the state of Earth-Bet and how they sometimes allow certain villains to get as much leeway as they should.
So is this a spite fic? Because it sounds dangerously close to one with that description.

The whole fic is just people from another dimension beating up one another? That doesn't sound very interesting.

Especially with the crossover potential you got here. Amanda and Piggot. Batman and Armmaster. Jack Slash and Joker. Even some unconventional team-ups, such as Bane and Lung. (Both brawlers) Or Joker and Kaiser. (Since the Joker hates Nazis)
 
yes, so what stops her getting shot? i've seen no notes that the lighthouse look makes her immune to bullets she's a blaster/mover not a brute her schtick could really be beaten by him aiming through the black umbrella or by shading his eyes with his top hat.
First off, if the Penguin can't see the light Purity generates, he also can't see Purity. He might as well shoot her blindfolded.

Second, she's fast.
Article:
"According to the news and my, um, inside source," Lisa spoke, referring to her power, "Purity hasn't stopped. She's doing strafing runs across the Docks. She moves too fast for anyone but Dauntless or Velocity to catch, and she hits harder than both of them combined. She's knocked down four more buildings while we've talked, I'm pretty sure. How long before she happens to knock over our hideout?"


Third, very few people would want to pop out of cover to shoot at someone whose lasers can casually demolish a building, and even fewer would survive her pointing that laser at them.


Buy the building she lives in?
Have her baby kidnapped?
Convince her that at least he isn't as bad as Kaiser, and is willing to grease the legal wheels of her attempting to go legit if she targets a few of his rivals?
A, most of those require contacts in Brockton Bay that he wouldn't have.
B, the implied scope of discussion was a more straightforward battle, not Gotham villains allying/blackmailing Brockton Bay ones to turn them against their Gotham rivals and vise versa.

(I agree that Hookwolf's trio would fit well alongside Clayface and Scarecrow and the like.)


edit should mention that the Joker upon finding out the E88 are Nazi's goes on a one clown mission to kill them all and probably succeeds if batman is busy dealing with the ABB which because of the human slavery and relatively more researchable capes he'd probably be going after them first and deal with the nazis after more research and prep because taking out the rage dragon is easier if you are a non powered human with knockout gas designed for regenerators than going after a guy that makes spikes out of any metal or a chick who's whole schtick is taking away shadows with lazers.
So, two points.

First, if the Joker doesn't get to take his plot armor with him, he's not gonna be able to defeat about a dozen parahumans plus an unclear number of unpowered but heavily-armed neo-Nazis.

B, as I argued in this Tumblr post, the ABB didn't do much slavery before the whole "Bakuda stuck bombs in people's head to help Lung take over the city" debacle. Before that, the ABB was basically just another gang.
After that...if Gotham appears in the middle of that gang war, between Bakuda's terror campaign, the city's other villains raiding ABB safehouses every night, and (I forget what the heroes did but it was something), I am not certain the unexplained appearance of a second city next to Brockton Bay would make front-page news.

Tres, I am irritated by the almost dogmatic assumption that Batman can beat any villain with prep time. I can't say it's an unfounded assumption—some official Batman writers do write him that way—but I find that to be a rather uninteresting way to write Batman.

"Oh, I can defeat perhaps the most dangerous known villain in New England by mixing up some knockout gas designed to affect someone whose regeneration textually makes him resistant to poisons, even though I've never met the guy and do not know how his regeneration works. It'll be a breeze, something I can do casually while preparing to fight the neo-Nazis (who do count as Nazis), even though he'll make Bane look like a careful masseuse if my knockout gas fails."​

Bleh.
 
Tres, I am irritated by the almost dogmatic assumption that Batman can beat any villain with prep time. I can't say it's an unfounded assumption—some official Batman writers do write him that way—but I find that to be a rather uninteresting way to write Batman.
As much as I understand this, I think the point of Batman is that he's a regular human in a realm of gods. Green Arrow is too, but while Green Arrow is the heart, (not The Flash or Superman. Green Arrow, because what else does he got going for him?) Batman is the brains. The smart guy. He's supposed to be the guy to show that humans can do anything.

I think the problems come when that's all Batman writers write about him. Instead of including his compassion, his obsession, and his trauma.
 
As much as I understand this, I think the point of Batman is that he's a regular human in a realm of gods. Green Arrow is too, but while Green Arrow is the heart, (not The Flash or Superman. Green Arrow, because what else does he got going for him?) Batman is the brains. The smart guy. He's supposed to be the guy to show that humans can do anything.

I think the problems come when that's all Batman writers write about him. Instead of including his compassion, his obsession, and his trauma.
Batman is many things in different contexts. Outside the context of the Justice League, when he's in Gotham City, he's a regular human in a realm of regular humans. Either way, his edge is a mixture of cunning, determination, and expensive gadgets, with the exact proportions varying wildly depending on who's writing him.

Personally, I find Batman least interesting when the focus is on his gadgets, on having enough disposable income that he can just have his techs prepare thousands of specialized gizmos in case he has to fight a ninja vampire or whatever. An ordinary human overcoming inhuman opponents can be compelling, but not if that victory is trivial.

Hampster calling Batman "a non powered human with knockout gas designed for regenerators" does not make it sound like the Batman they envision struggling to find some way to slay the dragon; it sounds like Batman read about Lung's powers, remembered some gizmo he broke out when the last Marvel vs. DC crossover pitted him against Wolverine, and uses that to trivially incapacitate Lung.
 
An entire city from another dimension, filled with hundreds of thousands of people at least, suddenly appearing on Earth Bet would be front page news the world over.

The war against the ABB would be completely forgotten and would probably die down as everyone involved suddenly needs to avoid the attention of the Triumvirate, who would absolutely come to town to investigate because there would be huge fears that this could signify the start of an invasion or inter-dimensional war.
 
"Oh, I can defeat perhaps the most dangerous known villain in New England by mixing up some knockout gas designed to affect someone whose regeneration textually makes him resistant to poisons, even though I've never met the guy and do not know how his regeneration works. It'll be a breeze, something I can do casually while preparing to fight the neo-Nazis (who do count as Nazis), even though he'll make Bane look like a careful masseuse if my knockout gas fails."
my understanding of lung's regen and growth is based on the perceived threat by his SHARD that's why a bunch of spider venom worked but more relevantly a xenon gas or krypton gas (the actual element not the fictional one) delivery system would suffocate lung into unconscious in seconds faster even than a regular person because he definitely needs more oxygen with his regen because those gases stick to the inside of your lungs and you don't realise your dying until your dead (we don't have basements in australia because of the risk of those gases building up in enclosed spaces It's happened before). And ok batman wouldn't use quite so lethal a technique but lung is just as vulnerable to anaesthetic gases as a regular person... heck i just remembered a grimdark timeline crossover where he used anaesthetic gas to take out an evil wonder woman
 
An entire city from another dimension, filled with hundreds of thousands of people at least, suddenly appearing on Earth Bet would be front page news the world over.
Point 1: I said I wasn't certain it would make front-page news in Brockton Bay, over events which are immediately threatening to Brockton Bay's residents.

Point 2: I said that as hyperbole. The newspaper headlines are not relevant to the argument at hand, except as a symbol that the ABB gang war is a very unusual and chaotic time in the city's recent history.


my understanding of lung's regen and growth is based on the perceived threat by his SHARD that's why a bunch of spider venom worked but more relevantly a xenon gas or krypton gas (the actual element not the fictional one) delivery system would suffocate lung into unconscious in seconds faster even than a regular person because he definitely needs more oxygen with his regen because those gases stick to the inside of your lungs and you don't realise your dying until your dead (we don't have basements in australia because of the risk of those gases building up in enclosed spaces It's happened before). And ok batman wouldn't use quite so lethal a technique but lung is just as vulnerable to anaesthetic gases as a regular person... heck i just remembered a grimdark timeline crossover where he used anaesthetic gas to take out an evil wonder woman
In canon, spider venom worked on Lung for three reasons:
  • Taylor pumped a fuckton of spider (and insect) venom into Lung, with the specific intent of overwhelming his regeneration
Article:
He healed fast when his power was working. Everything I'd read online said that people with healing abilities would shrug off the effects of poisons or drugs, so I knew I'd have to pump him full of enough venom to overwhelm that aspect of his power. Besides, he was a big guy. I judged he could take it.

  • Armsmaster accidentally suppressed Lung's regeneration, preventing him from recovering.
Article:
"That's not my fault," I told Armsmaster, my voice strained with anger. I gave voice to a suspicion that had been nagging at the edge of my consciousness since I'd heard about Lung being hospitalized, "I didn't dose him with enough venom to kill him. What I think is that the tranquilizers that you pumped into his system knocked out his ability to heal, which is what let the poisons do as much damage as they did."

  • The doctors checking on Lung assumed the bugs attacking a flaming dragon-man were acting normally
Article:
"So why are you surprised? A couple of those bugs would be fucking dangerous if they bit just once, but you had them bite several times. Bad enough, but when Lung came into custody they had him checked over by the docs, and the idiot doctor in charge said something like, 'Oh, well, these do look like bug bites and stings, but the really venomous ones don't bite multiple times. Let's arrange to check on him in a few hours'."

We don't get Lung narrating how an abnormally large venom cocktail interacted with other drugs to cause his tissues to fail, but this is all spelled out, and neither later events nor characters who should know better contradict them. Not even Armsmaster, who has been a Protectorate superhero since Taylor was in diapers, and who would be guilty of pretty serious negligence if Taylor's accusation was plausible.

We don't need to make up reasons why spider venom was so effective. We certainly don't need to make up those reasons when the reasons we make up rely on shards assuming a swarm of creatures with potent venom are harmless, despite shards lacking human preconceptions about what creatures are supposed to be dangerous, most shards having some kind of inhuman perceptive ability, and the fact that even non-poisonous bugs are perceived as a danger in large numbers.

Anyways.

Lung probably does need to breathe, but displacing oxygenated air can't be done with a xenon-filled smoke grenade. (If you could, smoke grenades full of cheaper gasses would be ubiquitous.) You'd need to trap Lung in a poorly-ventilated room and pump in gallons of the stuff, and also the room needs to be strong enough that he can't immediately leave. (Even if his shard doesn't identify this as a danger or Lung decides not to transform, Lung can still use basic pyrokinesis and ordinary strength to break down ordinary doors/windows.)

And ending your post with an unsunstantiated claim that "lung is just as vulnerable to anaesthetic gases as a regular person" and an irrelevant anecdote about Batman knocking out a metahuman with superpowers completely unlike Lung's is just comical.
 
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Rule 3: Be Civil - This is just an attack on another user's character
And ending your post with an unsunstantiated claim that "lung is just as vulnerable to anaesthetic gases as a regular person" and an irrelevant anecdote about Batman knocking out a metahuman with superpowers completely unlike Lung's is just comical.
i can't say what i want to say because of the requirement to be civil on this board which i will respect but i really have no respect for you because you have no respect for anyone else on this board or I imagine in real life. but i will clarify Lung (the person) needs air to breath, you don't seem to know how xenon and krypton gas works as a surfactant in lung tissue, so no you can't use a "cheaper gas" but chlorine works just as well on regular humans by burning lung tissue but it's flammable so i wouldn't suggest you use it on Lung.
 
xenon gas or krypton gas (the actual element not the fictional one) delivery system would suffocate lung into unconscious in seconds faster even than a regular person because he definitely needs more oxygen with his regen because those gases stick to the inside of your lungs
I really don't think that this applies to Lung, since his very first appearance has Taylor note that Lung setting himself on fire should suffocate him since it prevents oxygen from reaching his lungs, but he seems unaffected. So I'd say that his regeneration definitely doesn't need extra oxygen.
 
I really don't think that this applies to Lung, since his very first appearance has Taylor note that Lung setting himself on fire should suffocate him since it prevents oxygen from reaching his lungs, but he seems unaffected. So I'd say that his regeneration definitely doesn't need extra oxygen.
or and hear me out he is a pyrokinetic and can funnel cool air into his lungs. Since his fire isn't hot enough to be the spontaneous combustion of the atmosphere it seems likely that his shard provides the fuel for his fire and has some mechanism to prevent burnt air entering his lungs maybe even a thin layer or air drawn into his lungs up his body from the expansion of gases. actually does it mention if his pants immediately burn away? because that would be the difference between a coating of air and his shard providing air.
 
So what type of villains should I include in the Worm/Batman crossover idea because I'm kinda interested in some of the lower tier ones?
 
So what type of villains should I include in the Worm/Batman crossover idea because I'm kinda interested in some of the lower tier ones?
kiteman definitely. condiment king. stiltman was he a batman villain or a spiderman villain? Two Face his whole gimmick is Coil but without powers and with balls. Music Meister mind control by song show them what canary could do if she was actually evil... actually Music Meister breaking her out only for her to turn him in with her powers would be hilarious, not sure he counts as low tier. um penguin has been said before he has a serious gimmick look like a case 53 the devito version had a serious misunderstanding of bird biology and blue blood do with that what you will. um the falcone family and any o the regular mob families of gotham.

can we mention that BTAS cops had armoured blimp armoured cars and laser pistols?

Scarface the haunted puppet with the ventriloquist.
The Royal Flush Gang is terrifying but not low tier.
I'll think of some really obvious ones the second I post and kick myself.
 
or and hear me out he is a pyrokinetic and can funnel cool air into his lungs. Since his fire isn't hot enough to be the spontaneous combustion of the atmosphere it seems likely that his shard provides the fuel for his fire and has some mechanism to prevent burnt air entering his lungs maybe even a thin layer or air drawn into his lungs up his body from the expansion of gases. actually does it mention if his pants immediately burn away? because that would be the difference between a coating of air and his shard providing air.
Have we actually seen Lung be suffocated or choked out in Worm canon? The closest I remember is Taylor hitting him with pepper spray in the eyes.

Because if Lung's shard will provide him new flesh and muscle from its dimensional store, plus he fought Leviathan when they were both in ocean (I think?) without being drowned, then it's not a huge stretch to say that Lung's shard will oxygenate his ramped up body and he only needs his lungs if he's trying to talk through his voice box. Or it might even be different weird Shard stuff that lets Lung breathe through his skin, or alters his body to breathe carbon gas or nitrogen gas when he ramps up.

I can totally imagine that Batman would eventually figure out a way to fight Lung, but I can also imagine that it would take Batman several tries, experiments, and attempts to pull it off, each of which would require him to find Lung first and each of which would put him in danger of seriously debilitating injury or death along the way.

AFAIK -- and please correct me if you have better knowledge I lack -- Batman's "can take down anyone with prep time" comes from the Tower of Babel plot originally, where his anti-JL contingency plans were hi-jacked by Ra's al Ghul to take down the Justice League.

The important part that so many people ignore here is that Batman knows the Justice League members pretty well, they've trusted him with sensitive personal data, they've told him stories (or told each other stories when he could hear them) about problems they've had in the past, and he has access to their confidential medical data from the Justice League databases when they need treatment after fights.

With Lung being functionally a new Villain with no known data about him... I doubt Batman would fare as poorly as he did against Captain Syyn, but it still seems reasonable to guess that Batman would need 3 or 4 attempts to reliably work out a specific anti-Lung strategy unless he got lucky, and if he got unlucky them Batman would be down with broken bones and/or major burns.

So what type of villains should I include in the Worm/Batman crossover idea because I'm kinda interested in some of the lower tier ones?
Ratcatcher, infesting the sewers and basically being what the PRT would ID as a master similar to Skitter but much more murderous.
 
Rule 3: Be Civil - One person being uncivil doesn't mean being uncivil right back is okay
i can't say what i want to say because of the requirement to be civil on this board which i will respect but ireally have no respect for you because you have no respect for anyone else on this board or I imagine in real life
Fuck you. I can't imagine anything less civil you could want to say than "You don't take my bad argument seriously so you must be a monster who doesn't respect a single human being".

but i will clarify Lung (the person) needs air to breath, you don't seem to know how xenon and krypton gas works as a surfactant in lung tissue, so no you can't use a "cheaper gas" but chlorine works just as well on regular humans by burning lung tissue but it's flammable so i wouldn't suggest you use it on Lung.
Lung needs to breathe, but I wrote a whole post about how you can't suffocate people with a xenon smoke grenade. Which you ignored, so I assume you don't disagree with my arguments...?

You mention xenon being a surfactant, so I did a little googling. Two of the first things I found were Xenon-Induced Recovery of Functional Activity of Pulmonary Surfactant (In Silico Study) and A case of xenon inhalation therapy for respiratory failure and neuropsychiatric disorders associated with COVID-19, neither of which suggests that xenon is so disruptive to the respiratory system that even a small quantity will incapacitate someone. Or that xenon "works as a surfactant".
Article:
The formation and decomposition of xenon intermediates in these systems lead to recovery of the lateral mobility (fluidity) of phospholipids, which restores functional activity of surfactant films.

Article:
Using molecular modeling methods, we demonstrated that the xenon atom increases the distance between the acyl chains of phospholipids due to the van der Waals dispersion interaction. These changes allow for the phase transition of phospholipids from the solid-ordered phase to the liquid phase and restore the functional activity of the surfactant.


"Knockout gas" implies something that actively knocks people out, in small enough concentrations that you could actually use it in a smoke grenade. But those are toxins, which the text tells us Lung is unusually resistant to. Which is exactly why I said it was comical to end your argument with that bald-faced lie and an irrelevant anecdote.

or and hear me out he is a pyrokinetic and can funnel cool air into his lungs. Since his fire isn't hot enough to be the spontaneous combustion of the atmosphere it seems likely that his shard provides the fuel for his fire and has some mechanism to prevent burnt air entering his lungs maybe even a thin layer or air drawn into his lungs up his body from the expansion of gases. actually does it mention if his pants immediately burn away? because that would be the difference between a coating of air and his shard providing air.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but the text provides literally no reason to think this is the case.
And the implication that pyrokinetics can automatically control cool air is absurd. Might as well say that since Toph can control metal, she must also be able to control plastic.


Two Face is anything but lower tier as he is one of Batman notable and personal enemies.
Depends on how you define tiers. High personal investment, low power level.
 
Which is exactly why I said it was comical to end your argument with that bald-faced lie and an irrelevant anecdote.
sorry i mis-spoke

Precautions

Krypton compared to other anaesthetic gases (minimum alveolar concentration is an inverse indicator of potency)
Krypton is considered to be a non-toxic asphyxiant.[52] Being lipophilic, krypton has a significant anaesthetic effect (although the mechanism of this phenomenon is still not fully clear,[53] there is good evidence that the two properties are mechanistically related), with narcotic potency seven times greater than air, and breathing an atmosphere of 50% krypton and 50% natural air (as might happen in the locality of a leak) causes narcosis in humans similar to breathing air at four times atmospheric pressure. This is comparable to scuba diving at a depth of 30 m (100 ft) and could affect anyone breathing it.
 
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