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Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest

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I will also point out that Genna Lannister should still be at Casterly Rock, and she comes before Stafford in terms of inheriting it. She also likely has the force of personality to force her claim over his, and the Lannister household would probably recognize it.

Promising Stafford the Rock is not something we actually have any ability to do, because we don't control it. And Stafford could equally just decide to declare for Renly if he's willing to take over anyways.
 
[x] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
--[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.

Hmmm, tentatively voting this for now. It's going to get to a point where House Stark's complete inability not to look after bastards, orphans, and lonely things is going to be (in)famous, I think.
 
Enjou said:
I will also point out that Genna Lannister should still be at Casterly Rock, and she comes before Stafford in terms of inheriting it. She also likely has the force of personality to force her claim over his, and the Lannister household would probably recognize it.
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She is married to a Frey and has Frey children. The Lannisters would die before they let a Frey inherit Casterly Rock.

Enjou said:
Promising Stafford the Rock is not something we actually have any ability to do, because we don't control it. And Stafford could equally just decide to declare for Renly if he's willing to take over anyways.
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Stafford would not declare for Renly. He would need to strengthen his hold over the Rock first.
 
[X] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[X] Your father has sworn to protect Myrcella Waters, but that oath does not apply to Cersei's sons. They will not factor into your arrangement.
 
godofsmallthings said:
She is married to a Frey and has Frey children. The Lannisters would die before they let a Frey inherit Casterly Rock.
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Might be an issue, but she still has legitimacy and enough force of personality to push it. If she wins out the entire plan backfires.

godofsmallthings said:
Stafford would not declare for Renly. He would need to strengthen his hold over the Rock first.
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That would apply just as much to declaring for Stannis, and maybe more since the offer is to work with the army that already killed so many Westerlanders.
 
Enjou said:
Myrcella and Tommen are both bastards and any recognition of them as otherwise by Tyrion would be seen as undermining Stannis's legitimacy as king. Tyrion's heir would be Kevan followed by Kevan's sons. Protecting Tommen would just make him more likely to accept, and less likely to harbor or act on hard feelings.

Also, there's no guarantee that Stafford wants the Rock for himself - he might actually be quite loyal to Tywin and his line. Tyrion at least does want his birthright, and he's likely aware that his father will never let him have it, and being a dwarf he would also likely need royal support to have his claim acknowledged.
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Others have mentioned it, but given the circumstances I don't think Tyrion is in the right mindset to sell out his family unless Jaime crit fails a common sense roll and confesses about Tysha.

@Charcolt Kinda relates but did Bronn give us any additional info after we released him?
 
Enjou said:
Might be an issue, but she still has legitimacy and enough force of personality to push it. If she wins out the entire plan backfires.



That would apply just as much to declaring for Stannis, and maybe more since the offer is to work with the army that already killed so many Westerlanders.
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All the more reason to consider marrying Rickon to one of her daughters, again assuming that she has any. It seals the peace and binds the Westerlands to our house, while still fulfilling our obligation to Walder Frey.

We would definitely need to send Tywin, Tyrion and Kevan to the Wall.
 
A_Somebody said:
Others have mentioned it, but given the circumstances I don't think Tyrion is in the right mindset to sell out his family unless Jaime crit fails a common sense roll and confesses about Tysha.

@Charcolt Kinda relates but did Bronn give us any additional info after we released him?
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Because of him you have a bit more information concerning the Lannister army in Casterly Rock, which will come up if you face them on the field.
Adhoc vote count started by Charcolt on Jul 26, 2017 at 11:57 AM, finished with 84 posts and 38 votes.
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Enjou said:
That would apply just as much to declaring for Stannis, and maybe more since the offer is to work with the army that already killed so many Westerlanders.
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So you're saying Stafford could be reluctant to declare for Stannis for that reason?

If working for the army that beat them grates so much...and we pick Tyrion, then what happens if Stafford says 'fuck this dwarf, he's a puppet for the wolves, and/or Renly decides to offer him the Rock instead?

Right now Stafford is the one organizing the Westerland troops we need, the ones that we can't afford to go to Renly.
 
spudman said:
So you're saying Stafford could be reluctant to declare for Stannis for that reason?

If working for the army that beat them grates so much...and we pick Tyrion, then what happens if Stafford says 'fuck this dwarf, he's a puppet for the wolves, and/or Renly decides to offer him the Rock instead?

Right now Stafford is the one organizing the Westerland troops we need, the ones that we can't afford to go to Renly.
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I'm saying that if Stafford is willing to betray Tywin's branch of the family in order to take Casterly Rock for himself that he could just as well do so by declaring for Renly as he could for Stannis, and he might be more inclined to do that if his bannermen aren't keen on working with the people who just killed a lot of their own. You're basically hoping that Stafford will be willing to stab his family in the back and skip several lines of inheritance to take power won't be willing to betray us in turn if it's convenient for him.

Tyrion would be turning on his sister and brother due to them being screwed beyond saving, but at least part of his motivation will likely be to save Tommen's life as well as the lives of other members of his family so his motives won't be entirely selfish. We also still have Myrcella hostage, and he won't likely act against us knowing that she'd be killed if he did. Tyrion would more likely keep to the agreement, and he's good enough at political maneuvering that he could convince the Westerlander lords that they don't need to bleed for Stannis or Renly, especially after seeing Tywin's recent defeat, and he'd probably need peace to get time to cement his rule anyways.

Mind you, no solution we come up with is 100% guaranteed to work. Stafford could work out, he could refuse, or he could betray us. Tyrion could work out, or he could fail to take control of Casterly Rock, or he could do something clever and save the Lannisters in King's Landing (somewhat unlikely on that one, given the timetable he'd have to work with).
 
[X] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[X] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
 
The vote for Tyrion has them simply withdraw from the war. That would be helpful, but having the Westerland troops added to ours against Renly could make all the difference.

Letting the Westerlands sit things out also means they could decide to go after the weakened winner.
 
[x] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
--[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.
 
[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
 
spudman said:
This is cold, but...do we need to protect Tommen if we go with Tyrion? We are already protecting Myrcella. If the Rock stays in the main line via Tyrion, and he doesn't have any children, then Myrcella is his most likely heir.
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Tyrion needs a male heir to actually continue the line without having to deal with the husband's family having influence for at least one generation and possibly passing lordship to one of the children.
 
Odran said:
Tyrion is going to be plotting revenge. It might not be now. It might not be for years or decades, but it will come and it will bring nothing but death and misery. If you want to deal with the Lannisters effectively, purge the main line, eliminate anyone with a direct claim to Casterly rock, i.e. Tywin's and Cersei's gets.
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Seconded
 
Was thinking, even if there are no dragons, Aegonncould still be coming with the Golden Company.

No dragons > Dany dies in the Red Waste or in Qarth > Illyrio finds out > Tells Aegon to invade immediately with the Golden Company.

So Stannis and Renly aren't the only factors at play. If Renly loses, the Reach and/or Dorne could declare for Aegon, an unless the Lannisters are utterly defeated, they might too.

If Stannis loses though, Dorne might still declare for Aegon but the Reach won't and we can decide if we declare our three/four Kingdoms for Aegon then. Though we're out of sisters to offer.
 
[x] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
--[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.
 
[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
 
[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
-[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
--[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.
 
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