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Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest

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[x] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
--[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.
 
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[x] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
--[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.
 
[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
 
[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
-[X] Your father has sworn to protect Myrcella Waters, but that oath does not apply to Cersei's sons. They will not factor into your arrangement.


Guys, Tyrion is the most dangerous Lannister after Tywin. Regardless of their internal squabbles, at this point Tyrion will fully support his family. We shouldn't let him inherit the Rock. The Lannisport lannisters will be much more manageable in the future.
 
[X] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[X] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.

Not speaking up if you legit have an opinion is never good. Stannis may be King but he has flaws and does not think of everything unless his banner actually do their job in helping advise.

Trying to get Tyrion to turn without seeking to save Tommen seems like a good way for him to backstab. The guy is intelligent enought to realize his claim only holds so long as Stannis wins and that if Stannis wins the outcome can be alot worse.

As good as it may sound to turn cadet branches against each other I am very sure the Lannisters still have enough loyalty to prevent that and the very act of trying to bride shows vulnerability. The last thing Stannis needs is the Lannisters coming in full force because they believe the "rebels" fear meeting them in battle.

Seeking to save Tommen will win points. Tyrion may still look to help his family win or even leverage the debt owned to his family to save his brothers life also. Sure to a degree Stannis could get those debts forfeited based on treasons even though that would be mostly a lie since those were made from Tywin to Robert and Tywin only fought to protect a claim he believed was true so trying to dismiss them without proper cause can create other debt problems.
 
[x] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
--[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.
 
[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
 
[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.

We're Ned Stark's son; I can't see Robb at this point not attempting to at least try and keep Tommen and Joffrey from outright dying, even if it means sending them to the Wall.

OTOH Robb has no reason to go to bat for Tyrion and TBH we really shouldn't. Jaime is going to die. He made that bed, and fuck him anyway for tossing Bran out a window. Tyrion can take the Black or go to the Citadel, but he won't get the Rock. That will go to the cadet line.

...though we could try to landgrab the Rock via a Myrcella/Bran match (or does Genna have any daughters to wed to Rickon?), I'm not sure if that's something Robb would do IC and Stannis definitely wouldn't like it, besides which we need the Westerlands pacified and on our side.
 
First of all, the Lannisters are not the primary threat. Renly is. The Lannisters are pretty much screwed currently, and the Westerlands know it. We may be able to use this to subvert them politically. The Westerlands cannot be allowed to defect to Renly - we need to get them on our side, one way or the other.

Secondly, Renly is currently counting on us tiring ourselves out against the Lannisters. Let's not play his game.

Finally, we have two simple victory conditions, either one of which will suffice: Break Renly's coalition, or kill him. Do this, and we can probably get enough of the Reach on our side diplomatically to ensure victory.
 
Undead Martyr said:
[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
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I like this. That being said, if they refuse, why not negotiate directly with the various Westerlander Lords as a backup plan?

We have more than a few right here in captivity, our victories still fresh in their minds as is the knowledge just of how screwed the Lannisters are militarily. Defection might seem like a good idea to them right now.

[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
[x] If that doesn't work out, try negotiating directly with individual Westerlander Lords.​
[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.
 
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[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
 
[x] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[x] Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but Tommen and Myrcella should be made wards of Winterfell.
 
Personally I would be more worried about giving Stafford an opportunity to stab us in the back by letting his army wedge us between it and the walls of King's Landing.

The Westerlands also wouldn't necessarily follow him so long as Tywin or even Tyrion lives.
 
Enjou said:
Personally I would be more worried about giving Stafford an opportunity to stab us in the back by letting his army wedge us between it and the walls of King's Landing.
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Hmm... point well made. Stafford doesn't necessarily care about our hostages.

Perhaps we can send him into the Reach instead, to threaten Highgarden, thus forcing Renly to split his army?
 
Undead Martyr said:
We're Ned Stark's son; I can't see Robb at this point not attempting to at least try and keep Tommen and Joffrey from outright dying, even if it means sending them to the Wall.
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To be fair, I think Joffrey, like his father and grandfather, are bound for the Wall or the headsman at this point, assuming that King Waters doesn't end up getting killed when Stannis finally comes to the capitol. He burned all his sympathy cards way back at the outset.

Enjou said:
Personally I would be more worried about giving Stafford an opportunity to stab us in the back by letting his army wedge us between it and the walls of King's Landing.

The Westerlands also wouldn't necessarily follow him so long as Tywin or even Tyrion lives.
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In one sense that's even better. If Stannis agrees to let Stafford take the Rock, he'll be too busy managing all the people who want to either restore the main branch (Tywin/Tyrion/Kevan/Kevan's sons) or take the west for themselves. As for wedging, well... the best place for Ser Stafford's men would of course be the front line, no? An excellent way to demoralize the Waters court, to see lions in the van. Also, turning your cloak is trickier if you've got twenty thousand swords pointing at your back...

moo hoo ha ha ha
 
[X] Remain silent. King Stannis will doubtless have plans of his own to punish House Lannister once the war is won. There are good men who will be made great by the riches of the West.
 
[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
-[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
-[x] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.
 
[x] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
--[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.
 
This is cold, but...do we need to protect Tommen if we go with Tyrion? We are already protecting Myrcella. If the Rock stays in the main line via Tyrion, and he doesn't have any children, then Myrcella is his most likely heir.

However....we need to consider if the other Lannisters and Westerland Lords will follow Tyrion. Kevan is in King's Landing, so he has little influence for now, but it's hard to say who he would support anyway.

What we really need is that second Westerland host on our side. Offering Stafford the Rock should secure his loyalty. Betraying us would be biting the hand that feeds.
 
[X] The Lannisters holding Casterly Rock are not of the main line, but a cousin branch. If Ser Stafford joins his forces to yours, might he be worthy of the Rock?
 
spudman said:
This is cold, but...do we need to protect Tommen if we go with Tyrion? We are already protecting Myrcella. If the Rock stays in the main line via Tyrion, and he doesn't have any children, then Myrcella is his most likely heir.

However....we need to consider if the other Lannisters and Westerland Lords will follow Tyrion. Kevan is in King's Landing, so he has little influence for now, but it's hard to say who he would support anyway.

What we really need is that second Westerland host on our side. Offering Stafford the Rock should secure his loyalty. Betraying us would be biting the hand that feeds.
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Myrcella and Tommen are both bastards and any recognition of them as otherwise by Tyrion would be seen as undermining Stannis's legitimacy as king. Tyrion's heir would be Kevan followed by Kevan's sons. Protecting Tommen would just make him more likely to accept, and less likely to harbor or act on hard feelings.

Also, there's no guarantee that Stafford wants the Rock for himself - he might actually be quite loyal to Tywin and his line. Tyrion at least does want his birthright, and he's likely aware that his father will never let him have it, and being a dwarf he would also likely need royal support to have his claim acknowledged.
 
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Enjou said:
Also, there's no guarantee that Stafford wants the Rock for himself - he might actually be quite loyal to Tywin and his line. Tyrion at least does want his birthright, and he's likely aware that his father will never let him have it, and being a dwarf he would also likely need royal support to have his claim acknowledged.
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Stafford might be an idiot but he has competent children- Daven, Cerrena( I am still salty about that :sour:) and Myrielle.
He can marry off his children to his bannermen to forge powerful alliances.
Plus he is married to a Lefford, the same family we poached from the Lannisters. If Stafford is given the Rock, the Leffords would support him from Goldentooth.
 
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[x] Lord Tywin will never turn on his grandchildren, but perhaps his youngest son will. Suggest that Tyrion be named Lord of Casterly Rock in exchange for withdrawing from the war.
-[x] You cannot allow an innocent boy to die. Joffrey must face the Wall or the axe, but if he forswears any claim to the throne then Tommen should be remanded to his childless uncle's custody.
--[X] If Stannis is against releasing Tommen to his uncle, suggest he be squired with a trusted house as an alternative.
 
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