WI:1491 America replaced by "After the end" America

[thanix01]

This is a crosspost from SB


So this scenerio is basically what is said in the title. What if the entire continent from After the end TL replace OTL America one years before Columbus arrive on it.

What is after the end? After the end is a total conversion of Crusader Kings 2 set in the year 2666 post appocalyptic America (and its neighbor). No one know what cause the appocalypse it is only known that it happen 600 years ago.

Many civilization had risen from the ruin of America. Their tech level is similiar to that of high medieval age with a couple case of rare old world relic such as working hand gun or calculator. They can produce some prototype firearm (that is not old world design but more of a musket/matchlock) but not to any large scale.

One of the strongest political entity in this America is call Holy Columbian Confederecy, an evangelical Empire base in old USA south east. Another is Celestial empire of California, but it have problem of it own in regard that the emperor is just a puppet of his vassal.

There are also mysterious and powerful Brazilian empire that has tamed the Amazon forrest and forge a mighty empire. They are off map empire that will try to conquer America 200 or so years into the game.

Here are some religions that has been restore or created after the apocalypse.

Catholic: Catholic has been revived in the midwest and it base of power is in the New Papacy in St. Louise. There are movement called Sedevancantism that refused to recognized Pope of St. Louise and believe that only true pope is in Vatican.

Americanism: Religion that worship the founding father of America as gods.

Rust Cult: Religion that worship old world machinery and seek to recover and restored them. They mostly exist around the rust belt.

Ursuline: Catholic split off base in Quebec. Led by female priesthood and their version of pope call abbess General.

Atomicist: Religion that believe in the god like power known as atom. Their follower receive it blessing(or curse) early on in their live by exposing themselves to radioactive item.

Consumerism: Religion that believe in the power of all mighty dollar. They practice holy ritual of "shopping" since they believe that the old world fell because people did not "shopping" enough.

There are plenty more religion such as various pagan religion, and Christianity that are syncretized with local belief or warped by time.

Religions

This is a directory to the various religions in After The End. Heresies are in parenthesis. Religions that are a mixture of traditional African, native South American, and Christian beliefs: Rastafarianism: The primary religion of the Caribbean empire, based on the combined teachings of the...

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More info about the timeline can be found here.
After the end:A ck2 mod Wikia

What will be the european reaction to them? Some of them look just like normal European while also worship same religion (albeit quite different due to loss of culture when the old world end).

How quickly would the European be able to colonize America? Or will it be flat out impossible? The inhabitant of ATE America have similiar technology to high medieval age except for rare old world guns.

What would they think when they saw ruins of vast city that is larger than any city in Europe?

 

[Amv2]

Europeans won't be too surprised. Colossal Roman ruins and megaliths are scattered throughout Europe. The language is transformed in 600 years so that only native speakers will be able to identify the relationship. But even so, they will think that this is the legacy of Rome. Then the barbarians, the Angles, the Saxons, the Jutes, came to America as to Roman Britain, and destroyed everything.

 

[Rhymehouse]

The technology between North America and Europe should now be roughly equal.

The question is how will disease affect both sides?

Also I doubt the Spaniards will find a reliable route to China and the Philippines sailing west since there are now more developed states in Central America.

 

[YuffieK]

Europeans started flocking to the New World because Europeans had the technological advantage.

Now though, they're dealing with cultures at parity with them.

Would it come to conflict? Probably not. A Spanish Armada might conquer the Aztecs, but it can't fight a war against the Holy Colmubian Confederacy because neither side can support a war across the Atlantic.

 

[Rhymehouse]

Europeans started flocking to the New World because Europeans had the technological advantage.

Now though, they're dealing with cultures at parity with them.

Would it come to conflict? Probably not. A Spanish Armada might conquer the Aztecs, but it can't fight a war against the Holy Colmubian Confederacy because neither side can support a war across the Atlantic.

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That is not completely true. At first the Europeans were looking for a quick route to Asia. Then when they discovered the Western Hemisphere they were interested in trade and exotic goods there while still trying to get to Asia. After realizing the natives were far less advanced, the Spaniards teamed up with other tribes to overthrow the Incans and the Aztecs and take their riches. After a couple generations, disease depopulated the Americas and a lot more Europeans moved in.

There is technological parity now, but if disease is still a major issue then there could still be European settlement of the New World. Of course there could also be far more virulent diseases going to the East. I can't think of any reason for these North Americans to travel to Europe even though they should know about Europe already.

 

[Sterr]

Europeans started flocking to the New World because Europeans had the technological advantage.

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Kinda? Spain got incredibly lucky at a few points and managed to destroy the strongest civilizations in the Americas with what amounted to scouting parties stumbling ass backwards into victory, leaving no real organized resistance until it was far too late. Then they brutally enslaved the natives and used them to grow cash crops that they made huge amounts of wealth off of. Everyone else who came to America was chasing that type of success, not because it was essentially free territory. It was still pretty expensive to establish and maintain colonies, without the encomienda system showing returns the rest of Europe probably wouldn't have bothered.

In this scenario it's a lot less likely that that already unlikely series of events happens (disease still hits the Americas but the biggest empires probably don't get overthrown right off the bat), which means the interaction here is more like that between Europe and east Asia or Africa. Mostly trading, not so much conquest until the technological advantage is completely overwhelming centuries later. Of course, without the wealth siphoned from the Americas it's probably harder for Europe to get that overwhelming advantage. One of the biggest drivers of technological development was the firearm industry (which requires precise machine tools and metallurgy, two big factors in industrialization and the ability to invent new things in general). Wars and armies are expensive, Europe might develop a lot slower in this timeline and not exceed the rest of the world in military technology because they're not fighting as much war at the same scale (though to be fair the reliance on heavy cavalry in Europe also made the development of guns uniquely incentivized). That probably leaves China and India as the world's leading powers once industrialization happens.

Or hey, maybe the American powers do a Japan, get really into guns, industrialize, then do a scramble for Africa but in Europe.

 

[thanix01]

There is technological parity now, but if disease is still a major issue then there could still be European settlement of the New World. Of course there could also be far more virulent diseases going to the East. I can't think of any reason for these North Americans to travel to Europe even though they should know about Europe already.

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Some might try to travel to Europe for Religious reason. There are movement within North American Catholic that refuse to recognized the Pope of St. Louise and believe that the only true Vicar of Christ is in Rome. These people (as few as they are) might try to go to Europe to bring back evidence (after Spaniard might tip them off).

Also since this North American is from our "future". Wouldn't it mean that Old World disease would already be on the continent? So I wonder if that will prevent disease taking out population of America.

Also Columbus will land somewhere within Caribean empire territory, powerful but unstable empire that won't last much longer. Perhaps when he return to Europe, other European power might try to establish trade with America.

Can't wait to also see European Christian interact with various North American Christian branch that stray very far from them. Like Revelationist that is Christianity mixed with animism.

Revelationists

While many within the church see Revelationism as a devolution of the Christian faith, the reality is more complex. In the rural areas of America, where oral tradition is just as important as the written word (if not more important), the stories and tales of the Old Testament, and the miracles...

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[Sterr]

Also since this North American is from our "future". Wouldn't it mean that Old World disease would already be on the continent? So I wonder if that will prevent disease taking out population of America.

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Smallpox has been eradicated, so it would still cause new epidemics in this America.

 

[YuffieK]

Smallpox has been eradicated, so it would still cause new epidemics in this America.

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Yup, it was 'eradicated' over forty years ago. There are, probably, preserved samples out there though. In fact, in 2017 it was shown that smallpox could potentially be recreated fairly cheaply. The team that did this (using an extinct horse pox virus) weren't virologists.

It's the disease equivalent of a few post-grad engineers building a working nuclear weapon.

 

[Moist3D]

Speaking of disease, how badly is Anthrax going to affect Europe?