What if the Moors kept the Iberian Penninsular?
- Thread starter Uraxael
- Start date
- Historic
- Location
- Luton Airport
Which Moors? Umayyad? Almoravid? Almohad?
There's the possibility that closer contact might mean oh who am I kidding you're absolutely right.
There's the possibility that closer contact might mean oh who am I kidding you're absolutely right.
I was looking towards Eastern Europe's history as an example. Even with the Turks being driven from the area in fairly decisive fashion, you see a legacy of mutual distrust in some areas and outright hatred in others.
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- Location
- Luton Airport
You might possibly get a different relationship due to the differing geography though, the Pyrenees forming a "natural" frontier, rather than a tide of conflict rolling back and forth as occurred across the Balkans.
Uraxael
Aspiring Diestro
- Location
- Earth
There are multiples?!?
For Simplicity's sake, assume the latter two fused like Aragon and Castile, with the former as a new Portugal.
Okay, so Aragon's still Christian in this AU?
- Location
- Luton Airport
They were different dynasties, at different time periods, but each would no doubt develop differently.
- Location
- SMS Odette II
Ironanvil is actually severely understating things. For most of their history, the Islamic principalities and communities of the Spanish peninsula were a constellation of fiercely independent powers. It was ultimately their downfall.
Which "Moors" are you referring to? A fantasy nation?
Which "Moors" are you referring to? A fantasy nation?
- Location
- Luton Airport
I was assuming that it'd be one of the dynasties that could hold Al-Andalus together - the squabbling taifa managing to keep the place in the face of Christian Europe is difficult to imagine.
For this scenario it is probably best to go with either the Ummayad with borders similar to those at the height of their Iberian era borders or the Almohads that somehow managed to push back Castile/Leon/Aragon and Portugal.
Anyhow there would be massive ramifications for not only the new world but also for the Ottomans.
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- Location
- Luton Airport
Indeed, the Berber dynasties putting North Africa in contention, and the Umayyad undercutting Ottoman claims to the Caliphate.
It would probably help the Ottomans more than it would hurt them. Even if a Muslim Iberian state was hostile to the Ottomans it would not be so much that it would join the Holy League against them. As such the Ottomans should have a greater degree of control over the med and likely wont see the destruction of their navy.
- Location
- Luton Airport
Oh, certainly, it'd at the very least split the efforts of the remaining Christian powers.
Something like this?
I'd imagine the Crusades would be taking trying to take Spain back instead of the Holy Lands.
I'd imagine the Crusades would be taking trying to take Spain back instead of the Holy Lands.
Uraxael
Aspiring Diestro
- Location
- Earth
Yes! for the thread, let us use something like that.
Considering the first post I think it would be better to go with a map similar to that but with the Ummayads pushing all the way to the current day french border. Really I do think it is necessary otherwise it becomes far more difficult to defend the territory.
I think that is debatable, while they would certainly try to take back Iberia I think they would probably also try for the Holy lands.
I know one of the Crusades expanded to officially include helping the Reconquista. I'd imagine a strong Muslim state in Spain+North Africa would be trying to take Scilly, which'd pressure the now scared as shit Pope into dragging Europe to protecting him.
Of course, the lack of Europe's excess manpower distracting the Middle Eastern Muslims States would probably led to the ERE being left to fend for itself...
Of course, the lack of Europe's excess manpower distracting the Middle Eastern Muslims States would probably led to the ERE being left to fend for itself...
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xa na xa
A.E.I.O.U. - Antarticae est imperare orbi universo
- Location
- σ Octantis
More like, the stronger Moors are capable of preventing the Normans from taking Sicily from them and keeping it; perhaps adding Sardinia, Corsica and the Balearics to their lands for good measure.
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I think it might keep the Carolingian/Holy Roman empire united, or lead to its reunification at a later date (Europe was divided for several centuries by a power of balance between France and the Habsburgs, of which Spain was half of) .
If so, it would border both the Ottomans* and the Moors. It could lead to a triangular balance of power, especially if there is religious and/or for the Cailphate leadership rivalry.
*provided they are not butterflied away. The Byzantines could endure, with a symmetry of the Eastern Roman Empire facing Arabs/Turks/other Muslims in Anatolia while the Western Roman Empire does the same in Iberia. Could this lead to a re-united Empire of Rome/Christendom?
Maaaaaaybe? It could certainly butterfly away the circumstances that lead to the final breakup of the ERE, that being Venice and the Fourth Crusade going Horribly Wrong.
It could, depending on how the hard Ummayads push in France. If the HRE did break up, would you think a Plantagenet-ian(Angevin Empire) superstate would happen? Or combining the crowns to ensure English support?
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Halcyon Days
Velothi
- Location
- US
I doubt they'd colonize much given that the reason Christopher Columbus went west was to find a route to India not controlled by Muslims.