Would an extra 1000 years mean anything, or will europe totally dominate America. Would there be...
What if the Americas as of 1450 got ISOTED 1000 years back in time?
- Thread starter Helher
- Start date
- Discussion What if?
- Created
- Status
- Ongoing
- Watchers
- 14
- Recent readers
- 0
An extra thousand years would make a huge difference. There was already a complex system of trade in North America and similar systems in central and South America. 1000 years would have many more changes in language, writing, culture, not to mention the possible technology the American cultures would develop.
Contact could easily come from the opposite direction.
There is evidence that China made contact with the americas possibly as early as the 1420s. When the fleet discovers the sky has changed they would be possibly the source of a lot of contact and might even have settlements for trade.
Contact could easily come from the opposite direction.
There is evidence that China made contact with the americas possibly as early as the 1420s. When the fleet discovers the sky has changed they would be possibly the source of a lot of contact and might even have settlements for trade.
- Location
- Buskerud, Norway
I kinda doubt that there would be any large scale trade between China and the New world until atleast 1550 as the pacific ocean is simply too vast and China needs justification for expansion. I could see the Inca or their succsessors earn a lot due to potosi though as china really wanted silver at the time.
First contact between the old and new world is still probably going to be the norse as they had the closest way there, but I doubt that there would be much if any trade due to newfoundland being not the most attractive of places.
Last edited:
I think it's impossible to tell.
Fifteenth century American civilization reminds me of the Old World during the Bronze Age. Going by that, an extra 1000 years might mean the Americas in 1500 are comparable to the Old World around the time of Christ. That would still leave a fundamentally similar Columbian Exchange dynamic. Maybe 2000 extra years would do the trick. Or maybe not; the same factors that led to slower development before 1500 CE would continue to slow development after it.
I think if you really want to change the way history turned out in this area, the way to do it is to have more of the Pleistocene American fauna survive and some of them (e.g. the American horse) be domesticated. That will make it easier for Americans to increase economic productivity, and it will eliminate the asymmetric disease exchange (though you might get an equally bad but symmetrical disease exchange, which would be just a horrible disaster for everyone). Alternately, I think a more successful Vinland might have led to a world where American societies did much better.
Fifteenth century American civilization reminds me of the Old World during the Bronze Age. Going by that, an extra 1000 years might mean the Americas in 1500 are comparable to the Old World around the time of Christ. That would still leave a fundamentally similar Columbian Exchange dynamic. Maybe 2000 extra years would do the trick. Or maybe not; the same factors that led to slower development before 1500 CE would continue to slow development after it.
I think if you really want to change the way history turned out in this area, the way to do it is to have more of the Pleistocene American fauna survive and some of them (e.g. the American horse) be domesticated. That will make it easier for Americans to increase economic productivity, and it will eliminate the asymmetric disease exchange (though you might get an equally bad but symmetrical disease exchange, which would be just a horrible disaster for everyone). Alternately, I think a more successful Vinland might have led to a world where American societies did much better.
Oh Gavin Menzies No. Even if you accept his theories, there's no way that a chinese 'fleet' is going to be loitering in the new world for 30 years, waiting for the sky to change so they can be a 'source of a lot of contact.'
Wobulator
Within 1 AU of you!
- Location
- Mars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Also, 1450 is too late for the Ming to be exploring.
They really stopped after 1433, and just got more isolationist after that.
Also, you know, crossing the Pacific is a stupidly large undertaking that would undoubtedly a) never get the political goodwill to accomplish
and b) would be very, very well recorded.
They really stopped after 1433, and just got more isolationist after that.
Also, you know, crossing the Pacific is a stupidly large undertaking that would undoubtedly a) never get the political goodwill to accomplish
and b) would be very, very well recorded.
RyRy
putting the PRO in Protracted People's War
- Location
- the bay and the bayou
The Americas were really on the precipice of some wild and crazy things by the 16th century. For example, the extremely productive and efficient chinampa style agricultural fields in Lake Texcoco were only invested about around the mid 1300s. Mesoamerica and the Andes were in a Golden Age (for different reasons, one because of population growth cause of diffusion of technology and creation of many many independent kingdoms, and the Andes for being united politically for the first time ever, allowing spread of technology and ideas and resources).
North America, too, was seeing great changes, with the Haudenosaunee expanding and consolidating, and with the stratified kingdoms in the Mississippi Alluvial Plain and in Florida and the Pacific North West doing their historical thing.
Basically, I give it just a few decades more before really common and entrenched sustained trade between the Andean and Mesoamerican world began, hell, smallpox caused the Inka Civil War by spreading down south from Spanish Central America, and there was sporadic trade and contact between the two spheres already.
Yo, imagine Mesoamerica with potatoes. They had their incredibly efficient lowland agriculture that allowed for dozens of millions of people in the entire region, but potatoes would allow them to turn their relatively useless highlands into productive areas as well.
Imagine Peru with Mexican amaranth!
Basically, I would pay a lot of money (and I have like, no money already) just to see what the New World civilizations would have done with an extra half century, let alone a millennium!
North America, too, was seeing great changes, with the Haudenosaunee expanding and consolidating, and with the stratified kingdoms in the Mississippi Alluvial Plain and in Florida and the Pacific North West doing their historical thing.
Basically, I give it just a few decades more before really common and entrenched sustained trade between the Andean and Mesoamerican world began, hell, smallpox caused the Inka Civil War by spreading down south from Spanish Central America, and there was sporadic trade and contact between the two spheres already.
Yo, imagine Mesoamerica with potatoes. They had their incredibly efficient lowland agriculture that allowed for dozens of millions of people in the entire region, but potatoes would allow them to turn their relatively useless highlands into productive areas as well.
Imagine Peru with Mexican amaranth!
Basically, I would pay a lot of money (and I have like, no money already) just to see what the New World civilizations would have done with an extra half century, let alone a millennium!
Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No Aztecs alone could make a huge difference. Half the reason the Spanish were able to take Mesoamerica is that every non-Aztec tribe went "you want to kill Aztecs? Sure we'll help you, not like you could be worse!". Get rid of that factor and it won't be nearly so easy for the Spanish to kill the tribe in charge and take their place in the regional hierarchy.Sorry, not would but could
What he said.
Over a thousand years a lot might change. Or very little.
The only almost certain thing is that there would be no Aztecs, with some other polities replacing them. Nom, nom, nom ...
Same with Incas. A week is a long time in politics. A thousand years? Mind boggling
The Americas could just as well still be in a wheel-less stone age, or in the bronze age, or even in the iron age.
Maybe even be trading with the Old World on their own ships. Or c.1000 establishing trade factories on European shores and buying slaves.
Still, contact with the Old World means diseases and a civilisational collapse due to population loss and severnce of trade ties..
