- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Controversial gaming opinion: video games are good.
What are controversial gaming opinions you have?
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Perhaps, but if you wanted to be a logistician there are plenty of Paradox games...
Reveen
Castro-Trudeauist
See, this is the part that doesn't really connect with me. Sure, a game that is unbalanced to the point of there being a dominant strategy and you might as well not use anything else. But aside from that I really like games that have certain ridiculously overpowered weapons and abilities, that also can have disastrous side effects, or situations where I can just get fucked over because I overlooked something on a strategic level.
I also like making tactical choices with grounding in the game world and experience consequences grounded in the game world. Games where the key to playing the game the way it's meant to be played is learning how the underlying rules the game operates under doesn't appeal to me. I'm a much bigger fan of Total War than in more technical RTSes, because in the latter the stats of your troops don't always matter as much is how you maneuver them.
Now, obviously this makes it sound like I'm just not a fan of 'classic" CRPG combat mechanics, which is true, I need something a bit more to sink my teeth into to get invested in playing it, and Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale had that in spades, and I feel confused looking at Pillars and Dragon Age wondering whether I'm the only person who played these games and felt this way.
But it's no fun if it's too easy to break the game. Like finding that one weapon that breaks the game or that one skill that is completely silly.
You can definitely break the game in Pillars of Eternity. Probably the most obvious example being Priest buff stacking themselves to god-like levels. But every character can do it to a lesser degree through a combination of resting bonus's, consumables and equipment. In fact your gonna need all three if you want to beat the harder bosses battles solo in Path of the Dammed. Of course this is complete overkill in any normal play through but if you plan to fight the arch-mage hidden in the bogs and her two pet dragons solo... It would cheapen the fight if it were any easier, the balance is what allows the game can put a true challenge in you're way. To make optimization to that level have any meaning.
Even putting aside things that require you to prep for the whole game to do simply picking up a Ninagauth's Shadowflame early on will make you're wizard carry the rest of party (Even earlier Frozen Cloud and Slicken are amazing AOE controls that you can pick up level 1). Chanters can pick up the dragon thrashed and make a whole build revolving around it's insane DPS and so on.
....But knowing how to maneuver you're troops would definitely involve you learning the underlying mechanics. Simply knowing what works against what. How to keep your troops to breaking and so on. (Not that I've actually played total war myself, I've played a little bit of starcraft)
Do you perhaps mean you don't like to play the numbers game and look at the combat log? To say why you're attacks are missing while you're tank is getting pounded.
At this point I think I'll probably just ask how you played through those two games. Pillars I played through recently first as fighter on hard and second as a priest on Path of the Dammed. Dragon Age I've played Origins and 2. I assume by you mentioning CRPG elements you mean Origins rather than 2 or 3. Which I played a lot of at the time. All play though's as a mage.
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- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My problem with systems like Pillars of Eternity's is that... I don't know, the mechanics often don't seem "real" within the context of their universe? Abilities and stats feel very abstracted, connected to ethereal concepts, with very stats-driven effects. I feel less like my character is smart or strong and more like they are a bundle of DOT and DPS and AoE stats. It may not be fair to PoE, and I did enjoy it until my computer broke down partway through, but there lacks a certain visceral something to it compared the (admittedly horribly unbalanced) Baldur's Gate system, or the more recent Tormen: Numenera system.
You mean as role-player you found it off putting that Might didn't mean strength anymore or that intelligence is stat necessary for both Wizards and Fighters? That Lore was what allowed you use scrolls rather than intelligence? I suppose you might also feel you're wizards damage should also be affected by his intellgence rather than might but I think that's mostly a hold over from D&D more than anything else. Certainly it's not hard to imagine a 'mighty' wizard, if nothing else it's far superior system in terms of removing dump stats and creating choices.
I guess it is pretty funny that my physically frail (Constitution 3) priest is also the strongest in the party (Might 28) by a long margin and is what I used to make all strength checks with. I agree that Might on a priest and Might on a fighter should probably mean slightly different things, It feels slightly strange when it's my priest that's pushing walls down and lifting boulders. I suppose I should probably rationalize it as act of faith rather than muscle.
I think many of the other stats work better in this regard though, Might being an exception rather than the rule. Resolve is what allows you to make people trust in you or intimidate them and also mental fortitude. Perception works as spot check and intelligence is often used to make deductions while lore is well lore or background knowledge. Constitution is also just physical constitution.
I tried BG. I couldn't get pass the UI. And the new torment seemed to have gotten a mixed reception.
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I found Pillars of Eternity approximately a whole bunch less engaging than Baldur's Gate. Pillars was like...it was neato? I had fun for as long as it'd run. But like...I dunno. Baldur's Gate grabbed me right off, despite me having no idea how to play it. Pillars just...really didn't.
Shinji117
Endless Troller
- Location
- Rokkenjima (Sydney)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I was having fun with PoE until the mage nerf "spell mastery" patch hit as I three quarters through a Path of Damned no more than 10 rests run which utterly ruined it because suddenly resting is really important for mages because no more useful per-encounter spells. That was a good way to ruin my motivation to play the game again.
Very unfortunate.
Probably necessary to limit the power of vancian casters though. By the time you reach a high level wizard, druid and priest are far stronger and have far more options than any other classes in the game.
De3ta
Mae
- Location
- The hellish pit known as New Jersey
So your problem is that the mechanics feel diegetic, or in layman's terms, they're too obviously disconnected from the world. You'd prefer a more immersive less obvious display of the mechanics I take it? Or at least stats that"feel" like they're accurate summations or abstractions of your in-game abilities?
Edit: the post meant to tldr and extrapolate what you meant ends up almost as long anyway. Bugger.
De3ta
Mae
- Location
- The hellish pit known as New Jersey
To make my post more clear, because it's a bit of a mess, let me elaborate on the terms I'm using.
Diegesis is a film term, the long and short of it is that the work is being told to you. Usually via narration. In this case it's mechanically Diegetic.
The counterpoint of Diegesis is Mimesis. Which is where things are imitated, or in other words shown to you as if it was actually happening in the world.
Which is different from immersion, which might be what @Omicron is asking for but not necessarily what is required to make the games stats and abilities nondiegetic.
In that case it's more so how much you can make yourself feel apart of the world. This is important in RPG's sure but with diegetic statistics you're taken out of the experiance a tad. At least for some people.
A good example of Mimetic portrayal of RPG stats is in Fallout: New Vegas. The Pip-boy while obviously just a way to manage inventory and see your abilities and stats in game also works in-universe.
And it makes exceptional sense on fallout because the setting had a veneer of unhinged silliness that you can totally believe VaultTec would blow the money making such a thing that can gameify your physical and mental wellbeing.
In summation (because I could be here all day): Pillars just needs to tweak the way its stats work to be more Mimetic. Or the more reasonable option of using the system they have and making it work to be less obviously gamey and more immersive.
Diegesis is a film term, the long and short of it is that the work is being told to you. Usually via narration. In this case it's mechanically Diegetic.
The counterpoint of Diegesis is Mimesis. Which is where things are imitated, or in other words shown to you as if it was actually happening in the world.
Which is different from immersion, which might be what @Omicron is asking for but not necessarily what is required to make the games stats and abilities nondiegetic.
In that case it's more so how much you can make yourself feel apart of the world. This is important in RPG's sure but with diegetic statistics you're taken out of the experiance a tad. At least for some people.
A good example of Mimetic portrayal of RPG stats is in Fallout: New Vegas. The Pip-boy while obviously just a way to manage inventory and see your abilities and stats in game also works in-universe.
And it makes exceptional sense on fallout because the setting had a veneer of unhinged silliness that you can totally believe VaultTec would blow the money making such a thing that can gameify your physical and mental wellbeing.
In summation (because I could be here all day): Pillars just needs to tweak the way its stats work to be more Mimetic. Or the more reasonable option of using the system they have and making it work to be less obviously gamey and more immersive.
De3ta
Mae
- Location
- The hellish pit known as New Jersey
Okay, now I'm confused. How should they be holding those weapons?
Hykal94
Orange Estus Kitteh
- Location
- Firelink Shrine
They're holding it too high. The point of the mace and the axe is to use momentum to injure your opponent. But in Skyrim, axes, but most prominently maces, are held a bit too high, thus making the weapon far more unwieldy. It's slower, it doesn't do enough damage, and you can hurt your wrists.
How to actually hold a goddamn mace:
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Thats a common misconception brought about by the fact that people tend to use both fighters and paladins for the same thing, tanking.
Both classes are naturally tanky (for the player character exclusively paladins are tankier) but this ignores their abilities to fill different rolls. Paladins are far more restricted in this regard as they are natural healers and tanks amd full those niches exellently but they cant really go into DPS while fighters are more tank DPS (and later on scrolls means every character can pick up some spells)
Also although Paladins are naturally hardier due to faith and conviction Fighters are much better at locking down opponents and drawing and keeping agro which is very important with the improved AI the enemies have in the DLC.
As an example my current party does have a paadin tank (Pallagenia) but because she doesnt have abilities like into the fray, clear out, knock down and take the blow I have two off tanks (Zauhua and Kana) monk and chanter respectively as well as a ranger pet out of my six man party.
You can definitily make the case that some classes are overall stronger than the other but to say fighters are shitty paladins is to grossly over simplify the issue.
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Hykal94
Orange Estus Kitteh
- Location
- Firelink Shrine
This is all true, that Paladins lack the knocking down power of the fighters, but does it really matter?
Paladins are better buffers. This alone makes any group with paladins longer lived than fighters are. Doesn't matter how well you lock down that giant, as long as the entire party can get do more damage due to the buff, the paladins' lack of locking down is irrelevant.
There's also the fact that Fighters are, well boring. And this really shouldn't be the case. Fighters should be the best fighters, dammit. They should have as much dialogue choices as paladins do. They should be able to train others, use weapons more effectively, and so on.
While fighters are alright, paladins are just more fun to play. And that's kinda a shame, and I hope the sequel addresses that.
You mean their aura's? Neat but doesnt always reach the backline and in terms of buffs chanters and priest are fat superior. Prone is powerful debuff and fighters do get far more activate abilities than paldins who are fairly useless in that department outside of their heals.
I would say the most intresting classes to play are the vancian casters by far, followed by cipher. Ultimately classes like paladin, fighter, ranger and so on dont require much thought and micromanagment.
I concede they are rather bland. Out of all the martial classes i think i found only ranger to be as boring to use. (mechanically having the extra party member as a pet is very strong though). Monks and barbarians are much more interesting.
Well they are adding multiclassing so depending on how that works out we could see a lot of good hybrids. I want my priest/paladin.
I would say the most intresting classes to play are the vancian casters by far, followed by cipher. Ultimately classes like paladin, fighter, ranger and so on dont require much thought and micromanagment.
I concede they are rather bland. Out of all the martial classes i think i found only ranger to be as boring to use. (mechanically having the extra party member as a pet is very strong though). Monks and barbarians are much more interesting.
Well they are adding multiclassing so depending on how that works out we could see a lot of good hybrids. I want my priest/paladin.
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- Location
- Washington DC, United States
VR is a niche peripheral and will never get its killer app.
Dakkaface
Extra Shooty Wordsmith
Kinda yeah. Prone enemies have no engagement range, so the Fighter allows you to have other melee characters run into the enemy backline, or lets your wizard retreat from an encounter. Don't get me wrong, I prefer a Paladin, but that's because I run with no Priest and need the Paladin to smack the mind-control out of the rest of the party from time to time.
Dialogue choices are a legit annoyance, but that's not an issue you should have on the Fighter/Paladin divide. Paladins have 1 Paladin dialogue and 2-7 other choices based on their Order. Fighters have 5 dialogue options. At the absolute best slant toward Paladin you only have a difference of 3 dialogues, while the majority of Paladin orders actually have fewer dialogues than Fighters, with only Kind Wayfarers and Bleak Walkers having more. Meanwhile, Ciphers have 17 separate dialogue options, and Druids have 1 dialogue in the whole goddamn game. As a Druid player, I reserve the right to be way more salty about dialogue choices than you.
If you go by this counting on the official PoE forums, the difference between a character best optimized for dialogue(Female Orlan Merchant Cipher from The White that Wends) and the worst (Male Dwarf Drifter Druid from Ixamitl) is 56 dialogues.
Also, they do use weapons more effectively. They have weapon mastery talents. They could probably stand to have more than a 10% bump in damage on each category though.
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- Location
- Drachyench on Discord
On one hand, as said Fighters get a bit boring in PoE with their tendency to be "Trip a motherfucker or three then pile on the damage".
On the other, as said this is a fairly solid strategy (it allowed me to get fairly far in Caed Nua despite being grossly under-leveled and -optimized because my PC and Eomer could crowd control magnificently, though at times it did lead to rather game-y "Proc. one encounter, retreat pelting the enemy / enemies with ranged weapons, make stand when retreat's no longer possible" encounters that felt more mechanical than thematic (one thing I dislike about games focusing on "balance", that often times the encounters very much wear their mechanics on their sleeve instead of letting you immerse: Most fun I ever had in PoE early on as me and Eomer held the door and Aloth slogged spells over our heads).
On the other, as said this is a fairly solid strategy (it allowed me to get fairly far in Caed Nua despite being grossly under-leveled and -optimized because my PC and Eomer could crowd control magnificently, though at times it did lead to rather game-y "Proc. one encounter, retreat pelting the enemy / enemies with ranged weapons, make stand when retreat's no longer possible" encounters that felt more mechanical than thematic (one thing I dislike about games focusing on "balance", that often times the encounters very much wear their mechanics on their sleeve instead of letting you immerse: Most fun I ever had in PoE early on as me and Eomer held the door and Aloth slogged spells over our heads).
Hayateknight
Avatar of Apathy
- Location
- Texas
I don't know how actually controversial this opinion is, but considering what I just went through I really don't care. Any game that has a collectable that requires luck to get is the absolute worst and any game dev who does it should be be beaten over the head with a rapid badger.
I'm curious, what game/collectable inspired this?
Hayateknight
Avatar of Apathy
- Location
- Texas
The game is called Digimon Cyber Sleuth for the PS4. There is a collectable for a sidequest where you are to give this man these digimon medals for his collection with him compensating you well for reaching certain numbers of them in addition to money for selling them to him. There are 500 of the things in total, 200 of which you get by basically fighting every enemy in the game and completing a lot of side missions. The last 300 come from these gacha machines scattered around the game. There are 10 machines total containing 30 medals apiece. The problem comes from that the medals in these machines have different rarities and the machines work like real life gacha machines. Meaning you pay with ingame currency to roll for one medal at a time and it is pure luck if you get the medal you need or not.
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Daniel Estacado
ZA WARUDO
Could be worse, in the first Nier, Eagle Eggs were a pretty uncommon drop. In Nier Automata they are a common drop.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that was done deliberately.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that was done deliberately.