Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Knack]

[X] The Highways, where Karag Lhune joins the rest of the Karak.

They will flee before us or be dealt with.

 

[Cute Princess]

[X] Kragg and his Unsealing.

 

[BurnNote]

Seeds are good, but if you use them in mass like that you will brake them from overuse.

like the wheels on a car will last a year using them normally but will pop in a day if you keep doing doughnuts in a circle nonstop.

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Or like a field that has to lie fallow for a while to regenerate.

 

[agumentic]

The problem with healing nameless rank-and-file individuals is that while it's the obvious and sensible thing to do, it inevitably leads to Mathilde's role in any given battle being 'here's a pile of wounded friendlies, here's a pile of captured enemies, this is what you do now'. Which doesn't really make for an interesting story.

As such Mathilde will use her Seed to heal named characters if need be, but I'd much rather skim right past the morally upright but narratively tedious possibility of healing others.

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Given our performance, best way to deal with wounded friendlies in any given battle might be to have us assassinate and murderblend on the frontlines, so there's less wounded friendlies in the first place, and then heal whoever is still alive.

 

[Slamu]

The problem with healing nameless rank-and-file individuals is that while it's the obvious and sensible thing to do, it inevitably leads to Mathilde's role in any given battle being 'here's a pile of wounded friendlies, here's a pile of captured enemies, this is what you do now'. Which doesn't really make for an interesting story.

As such Mathilde will use her Seed to heal named characters if need be, but I'd much rather skim right past the morally upright but narratively tedious possibility of healing others.

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Also I think there's the matter of dwarfs not being entirely comfortable with magic healing. There might be a Rune of Healing that'd do just the trick (another reason that the Good Old Days were so much better, harumph) but something like manling magic messing with a good dwarf's body? Zhufbar creates plenty good prosthetics if you do actually survive this, and dying in the reclamation of a Lost Hold is nothing to be ashamed of. Why, your great great great uncle on your aunt's side died doing just that! Noble career for a dwarf, and he didn't need this manling magic to do it!

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Given our performance, best way to deal with wounded friendlies in any given battle might be to have us assassinate and murderblend on the frontlines, so there's less wounded friendlies in the first place, and then heal whoever is still alive.

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We're not THAT good, you know? Don't get cocky. The so-called murderblender had but six kills to her name when facing extremely distracted, prone-to-fleeing goblins, even if she was holding back near the end to let the Dwarves get their vengeance.

 

[Lightwhispers]

The problem with healing nameless rank-and-file individuals is that while it's the obvious and sensible thing to do, it inevitably leads to Mathilde's role in any given battle being 'here's a pile of wounded friendlies, here's a pile of captured enemies, this is what you do now'. Which doesn't really make for an interesting story.

As such Mathilde will use her Seed to heal named characters if need be, but I'd much rather skim right past the morally upright but narratively tedious possibility of healing others.

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Makes sense. In-universe explanation: Slayers gonna Slayer, there aren't many/any in that state.

 

[agumentic]

We're not THAT good, you know? Don't get cocky. The so-called murderblender had but six kills to her name when facing extremely distracted, prone-to-fleeing goblins, even if she was holding back near the end to let the Dwarves get their vengeance.

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The lack of anything approaching resistance and hard targets is more to blame here - Belegar himself didn't get even that, after all. We're not super amazing, but we're solidly very good.

Plus, you know, every goblin dead to trolls and infighting can be counted for us, if you want to really inflate the killscore.

 

[Ashmaker]

[X] The Hangars above.
[X] The Highways, where Karag Lhune joins the rest of the Karak.
[X] Remain with Belegar.

 

[LordEdric]

So we're just going to mob up, charge at anything green or furry, and when it comes time to write the songs they'll sing of this day, we lie like hell.

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My second favorite line of the update

[How high up in the Tribe was the Boss you killed?: 100.]

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Somehow I just know this will come back to bite us after I stop laughing

[X] Kragg and his Unsealing.
[X] The Highways, where Karag Lhune joins the rest of the Karak.

I want to see Kragg work, or murder some more

 

[cheesyme]

[X] The Highways, where Karag Lhune joins the rest of the Karak.

 

[BookMouse]

[X] The Chiselwards below.
[X] Kragg and his Unsealing.
I'm completely fine with either of these. Chiselwards for the unpredictable urban hell which we can probably save some dwarves lives at, or Kragg for the sweet social.

 

[vsh]

I think chiselwards were where trolls used to squat. Not much left to fight there.

 

[Andres]

I think we should head towards the Chiselwards. The Highway will be more or less a big, clear path. But the Chiselwards are a tunnel fighting mess, and therefore both the place most suited to our talents and where we can make the most impact. The Highways may be more capital-I Important, but Mathilde personally can make a bigger difference in the Chiselwards.

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Tunnel fighting is what Mathilde would be worst at. Little room to swing her great sword, not a lot of opportunities to take advantage of the ranged nature of her pistol, and too many possibilities of surprises leaves little time to cast spells. Meanwhile, in the open, she has loads of room to swing her sword, shoot her pistol, and cast spells, much more enemies can see her and thus become vulnerable to her Terror effects, and she can take advantage of her +5 Martial Shadowsteed. Open fields is where Mathilde is at her best. Just because she's a grey wizard doesn't mean she's automatically best in tight spaces.

 

[SurpriseMe]

[x] The Chiselwards below.

 

[veekie]

Nothing stops us from carrying a sword and a staff. We should generally be in the back when we need every drop of magic for something, or have time to simply switch.

One point I'd raise is that there's an item to prevent miscasting that we could make: Earthing Rod. But you can't use a staff alongside it.

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Uh, IIRC a 'staff' doesn't have to be physically staff shaped or sized does it?
My thought on it is essentially:
-If the staff MUST be approximately staff sized and a handheld implement -> We commission a well crafted, but non-runed greatsword to enchant as a staff.

Simply put its just too awkward to juggle two large, long objects with or without a pistol and be effective in combat without being a Techpriest or Doc Ock. You'd get entangled in yourself even if one is slung on your back while you use the other and neither will be held with a remotely effective grip.
Best to get a really well made sword that you can cast through.

-If the staff does not need to be staff sized, but must be a handheld implement -> We get that badass runic greatsword, and then make a 'staff' thats either a wand or an athame.

In effect the staff takes the same role as the pistol, we take one hand off the blade, draw the focus to cast, then jam it back in the holster and resume swording.

-If the staff does not need to be a handheld implement -> We make a focus thats a bracer, ring or amulet, which leaves our hands as free as they were.

We do whatever the heck we want with our weapon.

"You scout like a Ranger," he comments. "Were you seen at any point?"

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So...Rangers tend to scout with lots of fire too huh?

The more you know!

"You're welcome to," he says. His facial hair twitches in a way that suggests a smile underneath. "I'd normally find a spot for you in the shieldwall, but it seems traditional tactics don't work that well with this many rune-weapons. So we're just going to mob up, charge at anything green or furry, and when it comes time to write the songs they'll sing of this day, we lie like hell."

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Bulwark of civilization vs unwashed hordes makes a good story.

It seems to me that a good dwarfly strategy would be to embed rune-weapon users in a shieldwall of high quality, but non-runic weapon users like concrete reinforcing steel rods.

The problem is keeping them separated in the press though. Hmm...without inhuman drill and discipline(which dwarfs CAN pull off, but not when their blood is up due to grudges).
Safest would probably be a squad of maybe a dozen regulars with a rune weapon embedded each, but that wouldn't be something they use for hold taking.

The task of breaching the gate goes not to Dwarvern siege weapons or explosives, but to a single individual. Kragg's default expression is one of deep disapproval, but the look he gives the gate is one that would send you running if it was aimed at you. He grips his hammer tightly, and you feel waves of heat come off him as the blackened steel begins to glow red-hot with runic magic and Dwarvern fury. The swing he takes is that of a craftsman, not a warrior - it winds back as far as possible and swings in an almost lazy arc, designed to be a pace a smith could maintain for hours at a time. The impact delivered to the gates cares nothing for simple physics, for the power of the rune on Kragg's hammer, one that exists nowhere else in the world, delivers an impact greater than that of a cannon. The wooden bar on the gate surrenders in an instant, and the hinges in another, and the two gates fly backward and out of sight, lost in the darkness of the Hall.

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#Banhammer

Kragg steps smartly aside, and the keenest-eyed of the Rangers gives the call of "Trolls!" To your right, an over-eager youth of Clan Angrund takes half a step before halting himself, and almost loses his balance. To both sides, a joyous howl goes up, and over a thousand Slayers stream inward. Half a year ago they gathered at Karak Kadrin for help in seeking their doom, and Karak Kadrin pointed them to Belegar, and Belegar has lead them on a three-month march over a significant portion of the Old World, and at long last that journey will reward at least some of them with not just death, but death acceptable to their Gods and their Ancestors.

[Slayers vs Trolls: Martial, 93+15+10(this is what Slayers do)=118 vs 99+10=109.]

On the heels of the Slayers are you and Clan Angrund, and you draw to a halt at the sight that greets you. Hundreds of Trolls gathered in the abattoir that the King's Gates entrance hall had become, feasting on a thousand slain Goblins; you call to mind the few glimpses you got of the pit underneath the false floor, and realize it must have been an entrance of its own to a vast network of Troll-infested caves. You try not to imagine what would have happened if Clan Angrund had charged in first, expecting Goblins rather than Trolls. You've heard stories of what Troll vomit does to a heavily armoured victim, when steel that should have protected instead traps the terrible acids against the skin. The carnage would have been terrible.

Not that the events unfolding before you are much better.

A Slayer goes into battle unarmoured - Hell, damn near unclothed - and while this so often leads them to the deaths they seek, it is entirely an advantage against Trolls, with slow reactions and slower minds. Geysers of stomach acid are nimbly sidestepped around and axes bite deep into stomachs to spill out their most disgusting weapon, then ankles until the Troll falls, then spines or throats to finish the beast, and the Slayer moves on to the next. Hundreds of them lose their lives, not because they can't avoid an attack but because they choose not to to drive home a crippling blow moments before their doom reaches them.

To your eyes, this is a tragedy. But to the Dwarves that flank you this is a moment of beauty, as every second a dozen more Slayers find glorious ends and are accepted into the arms of their Ancestors. Tears run freely down faces to soak into beards as Clan Angrund stands witness to redemption.

Finally the battle ends, and the only sounds remaining are the howls of agony of soon-to-be-dead Slayers, and the broken sobbing of those of them that survived.

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Jesus, those troll rolls would have SMOOSHED whatever hit them by surprise.

Trolls are nasty.
Too tough to down with missile weapons before they reach you, armor bypassing acid...I'm thinking the normal solution, lacking Slayers to use, is artillery, expendables or wizards.

[How did things unfold after you left? Skaven vs Goblins: 2+15=17 vs 62+10+20(outnumber)=92.]

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The Skaven may suspect but that won't matter if they're all dead!

As you approach, the chatter of Night Goblins rivals and then swallows the march of Dwarf footfalls. Clan Angrund's path diverges from the one you took when you fled, as the side door you used isn't suitable to the reconquest. Instead they march to the doors that rival those at the King's Gates which hang open, the greenskins either too stupid or too arrogant to defend the Hall. You emerge blinking from the dim and intermittent light of the tunnels into the stark illumination of the bonfires of the Hall of the Moon, and you have a moment to take in the sight that greets you before the Night Goblins begin to react.

[How high up in the Tribe was the Boss you killed?: 100.]

And the sight is one of chaos.

Everywhere you look, there is pandemonium. Some Night Goblins scream abuse at each other, and this is as close to order as it gets, as elsewhere weapons clash and fists fly and hands shove. Fire rages out of control in at least three places, burning merrily through the countless layers of Goblin hovels built atop each other. The pit that was once filled with enslaved orcs is now empty of them, their place taken with Night Goblins who have been shoved or thrown or tripped into there, and yet they continue to fight amongst themselves for who, presumably, is in charge of the slave pit. The only places where there aren't squabbling Goblins is where there are the rat-beasts you saw earlier, free of their cages and happily preying upon the Night Goblins that supposedly purchased them.

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Wheres that gif of the guy returning with pizza to a room on fire?
Achievement Unlocked: [One Shot, A Hundred Kills - Cause mass hostile casualties through decapitation triggered infighting]

It's like no battle you've ever experienced, and if anything seems more like Sigmartag back when you were a mere apprentice, when the Magisters would conceal candies throughout the Grey College and encourage you all to seek them out.

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That sounds fun...that also sounds like an impromptu security test, if an apprentice seeking sweets can get into a spot its not secure enough(also Mindhole).

Once it becomes clear that nothing can dissuade the Night Goblins of their disputes, any notion of an orderly line of battle is lost and everyone rushes ahead of each other to bloody their weapon while they still can. You manage to account for a half-dozen, including a pair that were wrestling with each other and you're quite proud to have decapitated in a single swing of your greatsword.

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Achievement Unlocked: [Two Gobs One Sword - Kill two goblins in a single attack]

Free kills!

Behind you all, watching with befuddlement clear on his face, Belegar watches it all unfold. With a scrap of greenskin cloth you wipe your blade clean as you return to his side, having decided to stop competing with Clan Angrund for what fun there was left to be had. In the distance, the faint chorus of arguing from adjoining tunnels begins to transform to shrieks of surprise and agony as Dwarves spill out, seeking any as-yet unpurged greenskins.

"I guess that Boss was more important than I thought," you say, nodding towards the platform where his corpse still lay, though someone had gathered up the Warpstone shards and pried their remnants from the dead Goblin's gums.

He has no response, as what he expected to be the climactic battle of the Expedition's reconquest ends with one of the younger and more boisterous members of Clan Angrund using the corpse of a dead rat as a projectile to finish off the last living Night Goblin in the slave pit.

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Belegar: "This is going to take a lot of lying to fit in the sagas isn't it?"

Also huh, someone thoroughly looted the warpstone.
Skaven or just part of the chaos?

Any result above about 85 or so would have made him a Warboss. A natural 100 made him a Warboss that was poor at delegation and lacking a clear successor.

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It does explain the bling teeth and anyone unwise enough to stuff their mouth with warpstone PROBABLY isn't into the clear successor thing.

Or consequences of failure in general.

 

[BungieONI]

Tunnel fighting is what Mathilde would be worst at. Little room to swing her great sword, not a lot of opportunities to take advantage of the ranged nature of her pistol, and too many possibilities of surprises leaves little time to cast spells. Meanwhile, in the open, she has loads of room to swing her sword, shoot her pistol, and cast spells, much more enemies can see her and thus become vulnerable to her Terror effects, and she can take advantage of her +5 Martial Shadowsteed. Open fields is where Mathilde is at her best. Just because she's a grey wizard doesn't mean she's automatically best in tight spaces.

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You don't really swing a greatsword in a close in area, and this is something of a solved problem in regards to greatsword technique.

For most of the fight you'll fence choked-up, with the axehead like half a foot away from your hand, trying to pry open your target's defence. You only deliver the huge baseball-bat swing either when you've cleared an opening, or as probing shots from a longer distance.

If trying to fight close-in with a two-handed sword, you'd be half-swording and using it as, essentially, a spear. This is plenty agile, but doesn't transition as easily to the sweeping/crushing blows.

They're both very much specialist weapons, to be clear. A two-handed axe has shorter reach (due to being used choked-up) and largely expects its wielder to be in pretty hefty armour, but is a weapon for fencing and taking down another heavily armoured opponent.

A two-handed sword, on the other hand, is meant to transition between use as a short spear, and large arcing blows that threaten a lot of lighter-armoured opponents with being cleaved in half.

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Her pistol has multiple attacks, so it is in fact very helpful for clearing out rooms. Furthermore her spell list is what would be helpful down there with Burning Shadows, Substance of Shadow, Aetheric Armor which means she doesn't tire being a very big one. She's great at protecting a buddy for a variety of reasons and using the buddy system in urban room clearing is basic sense.

So she is in fact pretty well suited for it.

 

[Alectai]

The point of the staff is that--when you feel you're miscasting--you shove one end down into the earth to ground out the worst of the backlash and make the rest more manageable.

It lets you risk stronger spells because you have that safety net, if you will. Something like a wand would be too short to jam down in time, and a greatsword probably doesn't make the best arcane conduit.

Wood--at least--is easy, because you can arrange the conditions (Or search out) the conditions for something aspected to any given Wind, and then enchant accordingly.

A good wizard's staff in Fantasy is something that's not a very great weapon because almost all of your attention needs to be 'Making it a good wizard's staff'

 

[TotallyNotEvil]

Simply put its just too awkward to juggle two large, long objects with or without a pistol and be effective in combat without being a Techpriest or Doc Ock. You'd get entangled in yourself even if one is slung on your back while you use the other and neither will be held with a remotely effective grip.
Best to get a really well made sword that you can cast through.

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... No?

Carrying two greatsword-sized objects should be little to no impediment to someone used to carrying one.

If we are fighting, the "staff" is slung in the back, the sword is in hand. Swap around for casting someting that needs the staff.

"Needs" being the key here: most of our magic doesn't.

With the sort of magic that requires every drop of power and finesse, aka Battle Magic, I'd much prefer an Earthing Rod than a staff. It makes a miscast one step less severe. The worst one is "you get blown into the warp, no save". The second worst is a big explosion and that Mathilde can handle. The first, not so much.

 

[Yeangst]

[X] The Chiselwards below.

 

[WazugDaWierd]

[X] The Highways, where Karag Lhune joins the rest of the Karak.

 

[Necratoid]

I think people are thinking of some of this wrong:

First off, the Negavere for the goblins should involve the Warboss critically botching the diplomacy events by getting assassinated midhaggle and blinding the leader of the other group. Needless to say he rolled so poorly his lead minion bodyguard chased after assassin rather than stabilizing things and all three of them managed to get out of sight before inexplicably dying in a fire that randomly shows up to gank them. The rest of them ran off down a random coordinator and got completely lost chasing shadows.

Meanwhile the Negaverse Skaven Quest, the Master Molder beat the goblin warboss on the negotiation roll so hard his head exploded in response. Violently. Literally exploded and MM botched his dodge roll attempting to process this development. Botched so hard he can't see anymore. At which point the goblin flipped out and went into spontaneous civil war... just mayhem and stupid and violence everywhere.

As for the Dwarves, that shadow mage set them up for a moral building experience to lighten the mood when she was suppose to be scouting. Screwed up the Doomgliders in a way they all lawndarted hilariously. Made the approach entertaining, then she reports the tombs are intact and she randomly assassinated the most important goblin in a room and then wandered off to disarm the entry gate traps. Very trolly that trap. So the legend dwarf drops the gates and a pile of Slayers get their Doom on and then they show up for a battle only to find out the mage offed the warboss at random and turned a major battle into team building exercise in goblin clean up. Somehow this has turned into a wacky party instead of a war everywhere she has gone.

Its clear the mage may have confused 'scouting' with organize a 'surprize party'. Its like someone opening what is suppose to be a grim tale of war and redemption with a goofy joke in the first act. He must fear the mage is wrong genre savvy... that or she has sucked all the lucky out of this reclamation on the first day. Ancient Grudges aren't suppose to be resolved with wacky hijinks!

 

[veekie]

Wonder if we'll get some sort of Master Saboteur trait if this keeps happening. Though I'm not sure 'Master' would be exactly correct. It's almost accidental half the time.

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Ranald: "Its almost like I'm helping make it more entertaining."

I'm not so sure it is...

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It'd be praise for a human.
The Dwarf Ranger thing is that they make use of undwarfly strategies, and spend a lot of time doing undwarfly things, but they're effective at killing greenskins, keeping dwarfs alive, and they are honorable, if differently honorable.

To be compared to one is high praise for a human wizard. It says that while we're weird and use underhanded and dangerous tactics, we're very good at what we do and we help dwarfs doing this.

Also I think there's the matter of dwarfs not being entirely comfortable with magic healing. There might be a Rune of Healing that'd do just the trick (another reason that the Good Old Days were so much better, harumph) but something like manling magic messing with a good dwarf's body? Zhufbar creates plenty good prosthetics if you do actually survive this, and dying in the reclamation of a Lost Hold is nothing to be ashamed of. Why, your great great great uncle on your aunt's side died doing just that! Noble career for a dwarf, and he didn't need this manling magic to do it!

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Eh, most dwarfs won't need it I think, given their constitution, either the wound is something they can walk off and will insist on walking off, or the wound is crippling/rapidly fatal, in which case Mathilde is more valuable killing greenskins faster so they don't do more damage.

... No?

Carrying two greatsword-sized objects should be little to no impediment to someone used to carrying one.

If we are fighting, the "staff" is slung in the back, the sword is in hand. Swap around for casting someting that needs the staff.

"Needs" being the key here: most of our magic doesn't.

With the sort of magic that requires every drop of power and finesse, aka Battle Magic, I'd much prefer an Earthing Rod than a staff. It makes a miscast one step less severe. The worst one is "you get blown into the warp, no save". The second worst is a big explosion and that Mathilde can handle. The first, not so much.

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Its nothing to do with weight or handedness. Its to do with the basics of swordplay and ability to switch equipment smoothly in the field.

Anything the size of a staff or greatsword cannot be stored securely and easily accessible without ALSO interfering with using it in combat, because your limbs or weapon will intersect in its movement arcs.
Simply wearing a long staff on your back would cut your freedom of swording by about 1/4 from the staff potentially intersecting with slashes and arm positioning. If the staff is properly secured as to present a consistent profile, you can reduce this, but also makes it impossible to draw it anyway reasonably quickly in battle, where people would be trying to shoot and stab you the whole way, since any position where it won't intersect with your combat limb motion is ALSO a position thats really awkward to reach in a hurry.

We aren't video game characters with magic one size fits all inventories here. The largest you can get without any hindrance while using a greatweapon should be about the length of your thigh(in which case you strap it to your hip and thigh in a holster for a quickdraw).

 

[SurpriseMe]

Too tough to down with missile weapons before they reach

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That's somewhat weird to hear, when my Warhammer gameplay has mostly been Total War where shooting trolls with missiles is one of their weaknesses. The more you know I guess.

 

[TotallyNotEvil]

Its nothing to do with weight or handedness. Its to do with the basics of swordplay and ability to switch equipment smoothly in the field.

Anything the size of a staff or greatsword cannot be stored securely and easily accessible without ALSO interfering with using it in combat, because your limbs or weapon will intersect in its movement arcs.
Simply wearing a long staff on your back would cut your freedom of swording by about 1/4 from the staff potentially intersecting with slashes and arm positioning. If the staff is properly secured as to present a consistent profile, you can reduce this, but also makes it impossible to draw it anyway reasonably quickly in battle, where people would be trying to shoot and stab you the whole way, since any position where it won't intersect with your combat limb motion is ALSO a position thats really awkward to reach in a hurry.

We aren't video game characters with magic one size fits all inventories here. The largest you can get without any hindrance while using a greatweapon should be about the length of your thigh(in which case you strap it to your hip and thigh in a holster for a quickdraw).

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If a greatsword can be secured without issue, then it stands to reason a different greatsword-sized object can as well, especially as they don't have to occupy the same space during important times.

Furthermore, you miss the more important point: a +1 Magic "staff" is only ever useful in situation where we generally don't need to be swording anything anytime soon.

Virtually nothing in our current arsenal really benefits from it. Aethyric Armor will, but learning the remaining spells will do the same and a staff won't bump it to the next tier. There's Shadow Knives... and Battle Magic.

The former of which isn't terribly relevant, the later of which my preferred instrument to have at hand to aid in its use is incompatible with a staff.

To sum it up, carrying another sword on our back is perfectly viable as we are already used to carrying one. The slight inconvenience doesn't matter, because in most situations where we want one, we don't need the other.

Not that I'm buying your postulate that an easily accessible weapon on our back would severely interfere with our fighting. That's complete conjecture, and even if it were it's not terribly relevant given the genre we are working with.