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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[x] Having successfully escaped, you can now move on...
-[x] To the King's Gates, to scout the outer defences.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Thats not strictly my point. Even after that update, you could potentially convince me to vote for that plan again, if it had worked, sparking a fight between the Skaven and the Goblins was possibly worth a scouting action and not being seen would likely involve making it look like an accident that didn't do that.
What I am asking is was the escape discussed? Or did planning stop at the action? Was it just sunny day thinking "This will immediately start a riot and we can vanish into the chaos." or did people think this would involve a chase?
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As I understand it, the idea was "kill the Goblin in this way, which will hopefully start a fight, and then escape in the manner Mathilde thinks is best." Essentially, leaving that bit up to Boney (as Mathilde's best judgement), since there were way too many variables for any real planning. I personally was expecting a bit of a chase, but not as much as the dice dictated - the dice really did not want us to get away.

Regarding enchantment, something I'd like to do, if we don't try to get a Runic greatsword, is get a higher-quality one, learn Shadow Knives, and then enchant the sword so it also can ignore non-magical armor.

[x] Having successfully escaped, you can now move on...
-[x] To the King's Gates, to scout the outer defences.

Also not opposed to scouting the Temple, but this gives the best opportunity to take advantage of the chaos we just caused, by helping the army in fastest.
 
Just an outsider evaluation here:

I think what all of you are missing is the skaven POV. They got a 55 on a DC 80 check there. That means they think it was a 'failed' attempt to kill the master molder that missed the target, mostly, and not a hit on the Goblin Big Boss. So they'll go into paranoid infighting mode and their isn't even a goblin leader around to start screaming about staying on task. Magic or warp stone nonsense looks a lot alike, so they may think it was another skaven faction at work there. If the master molder doesn't get assassinated immediately he has to roll to fix his eyes.. probably rolling with a negative modifier for that. If it does succeed its now going to be trying to figure out who just tried to assassinate it. In the middle of some random slave revolt/beast jail break.

So the goblins are down a major member of their command staff an hour or so before they need to be coordinated. Also, the goblin made a DC 30 intreige roll exactly... meaning while they aren't going to infight themselves into oblivion or attack the skaven as a primary objective they are going to barely hold things together. This low as possible to succeed roll means they won't have anyone to step into the Big Boss' shoes in the short term. The skaven are actively pushed into paranoia mode while chaos and stupid happens all around them. These idiots are going to be useless for a while and going to give the dwarves time to break the gates (at least versus this faction). Also, they've got a beast break out going on so they get to have fun with those rolls to not have everything go to hell and the leadership of the goblins is in flux. So negative/reduced modifiers all around. If your really lucky any remaining higher ranking goblin will be forced to deal with that mess and not be coordinating the gate defense.

As to Hangwind's complains about opportunity costs? I think he is forgetting that most of the scouting actions are to determine IF points of interest and resources are still intact and given the same rolls it could have been a total wash of actions anyway. Long term a spell mastery triggered so long term gain on the personal side... versus slowed progress on the immediate army side. So opportunity cost 'what if's should be considered in terms of the dice rolls that actually happened. Probably not great and that 18 is for her to eat not the goblins.

So the actual major cost here is that later resources are going to be diverted away later to determine if her optional objectives are intact or not. So far she confirmed one of them is intact. One of them is gutted to the walls (and beyond) and that its currently housing a giant pile of skaven and goblins.
BoneyM said:
[ ] You've scouted this area, now...
-[ ] To the Armoury, to check if the ancient weapons remain sealed away.
-[ ] To the Temple of Grungni, to check if the holy place remains undesecrated.
-[ ] To the Chiselwards, an enormous warren of tunnels that could house any number of horrors.
-[ ] To the King's Gates, to scout the outer defences.
-[ ] To the depths of Karag Lhune, to see how far the Crooked Moon Tribe's influence reaches.
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So two of 7 options of objectives (possible 4) completed and a scouting action traded for a spell mastery, enemy disruption, and destruction of an annoying anti-magic artifact. As a mage the destruction and the mastery are personal boons. Enemy disruption will lower moderifiers in the short term with possible bonus effects if the gribly factions roll poorly. That leaves five options for the remaining scouting action. Armoury and Temple are either bonuses or nothing if scouted. If they are intact you get something. If they aren't intact you only take things off the priority target list. So these two options could have been a waste of time.. or not. Toss up if scouting them was useless or not.. and MC side rolls got ugly there so...

Of the last two options Chiselwards and depths are both ways to risk getting stuck in with the boyz, alone. At least as risky as the action taken. King's Gates is best saved for last action. Best support for the invasion, with the least chance to let the goblin counter. Doomgliders may or may not have burn honestly.

So basically, Armoury and Temple results will come out in time if the invasion succeeds either way and then you can offically hind sight things to death. Chiselwards and depths are just as risky as the assassination really. Remember same rolls would be used for those options.
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I guess the biggest question is if that shoulder hit was a wound or not.
 
Dark as Silver said:
What I am asking is was the escape discussed? Or did planning stop at the action? Was it just sunny day thinking "This will immediately start a riot and we can vanish into the chaos." or did people think this would involve a chase?
Where we Nott?


I am not trying to criticise the plan only getting context for discussion I missed.
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Yup, chance was discussed, as well as several options for how it might be evaded, but in the end the conclusion was that it was best to leave to Mathilde to decide in the moment how to leave. Some of the options presented included stuff like switching our appearance to a goblin and doing Take no Heed after the shot.

The real trouble with the escape was we rolled really, really well for catching everyones attention (108 I think?), so everyone came after us, and then Mat couldn't outrun them long enough to break Line of Sight and use her other tricks. So she couldn't change her visage from a Skaven in the initial confusion, and got stuck trying to run away while looking like a Skaven, and being limited to their abilities to not give up the ghost of not being Skaven. If she had a moment out of sight, there were options, but she never got that until she broke pursuit completely.

Like, these are the outrun rolls:
Mathilde vs closest goblins: 18+19=37 vs 67+5=72.
[Outrun: 3+10(Fit)+10(Indefatiguable)=23 vs 50-10(Shorter legs)=40.]
With constant Line of Sight and a limitation to Skaven abilities, a lot of our stuff just didn't work. Them be the dice.

EDIT: Not that I'm complaing for the attention roll. We did start a fight, whatever else happens. They might figure out later what happened, but in the moment those Skaven are fucked. And killing Stormvermin is always a good thing.
 
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[x] Having successfully escaped, you can now move on...
-[x] To the King's Gates, to scout the outer defences.

[X] You've finished scouting, you'll return to the Vanguard...
-[X] By slipping out the King's Gates.

[x] You've finished scouting, you'll return to the vanguard...
-[x] By returning to the secondary peak, and taking the opportunity to further sabotage the Doom Divers on the way out.
 
primemountain said:
The real trouble with the escape was we rolled really, really well for catching everyones attention (108 I think?),
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I literally don't care. I have said before that I know the rolls were bad. I also said that I could be persuaded to vote for this plan if time were rewound and we had the same vote again.

E:
Necratoid said:
I think what all of you are missing is the skaven POV. They got a 55 on a DC 80 check there.
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Its probably the other way around. We got a 55 to convince them. Otherwise the goblin roll would have had a higher DC and they wouldn't have been using our stats.
 
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[X] You've finished scouting, you'll return to the Vanguard...
-[X] By returning to the secondary peak, and taking the opportunity to further sabotage the Doom Divers on the way out.
 
[X] You've finished scouting, you'll return to the Vanguard...
-[X] By slipping out the King's Gates.

[X] You've finished scouting, you'll return to the Vanguard...
-[X] By returning to the secondary peak, and taking the opportunity to further sabotage the Doom Divers on the way out.
 
[X] You've finished scouting, you'll return to the Vanguard...
-[X] By slipping out the King's Gates.

[X] You've finished scouting, you'll return to the Vanguard...
-[X] By returning to the secondary peak, and taking the opportunity to further sabotage the Doom Divers on the way out.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Sinsystems on Sep 7, 2019 at 12:05 PM, finished with 193 posts and 68 votes.
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Necratoid said:
Just an outsider evaluation here:

I think what all of you are missing is the skaven POV. They got a 55 on a DC 80 check there. That means they think it was a 'failed' attempt to kill the master molder that missed the target, mostly, and not a hit on the Goblin Big Boss.

So the goblins are down a major member of their command staff an hour or so before they need to be coordinated. Also, the goblin made a DC 30 intreige roll exactly... meaning while they aren't going to infight themselves into oblivion or attack the skaven as a primary objective they are going to barely hold things together.

I guess the biggest question is if that shoulder hit was a wound or not.
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Those 30 and 55 rolls were OUR intrigue rolls to fool goblins and skaven respectively. We managed the first (because greenskins aren't very bright) but failed second (skaven didn't buy it and suspect that something is amiss).

Shoulder hit was a wound, we later healed it with the Seed.
 
Dark as Silver said:
I literally don't care. I have said before that I know the rolls were bad. I also said that I could be persuaded to vote for this plan if time were rewound and we had the same vote again.

E:

Its probably the other way around. We got a 55 to convince them. Otherwise the goblin roll would have had a higher DC and they wouldn't have been using our stats.
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Even if someone quotes you, that doesn't mean that a reply is just for your benefit. Especially if the person quoting you mostly agrees with you.
 
The dwarves are fragmenting after King's Gates, and will be spreading out until they meet too much resistance to continue or until they have the entirety of Karag Lhune. Belegar and most of Clan Angrund will be going to the Hall of the Moon, while Kragg will be going to the Armoury and the Temples. The Gates will be held by the Ulricans and Nordlanders, with fire support from the Quarrelers and Rangers.
 
Eh, so a simple Hall o the Moon + Gates isn't too bad a result for our scouting mission.

[X] Having successfully escaped, you can now move on...
-[x] To the King's Gates, to scout the outer defences

Provided the fire on the doomdiver wings actually took them out.
 
@BoneyM And the humans? Anyone making sure the looters don't loot the wrong stuff? I expect Petrescu to sent certain parts of his forces "scouting" the depths or the cretche if we tell him about it.
 
Sorted by line, i think it's inclusive of approval voting?
Adhoc vote count started by VoidZero on Sep 7, 2019 at 12:24 PM, finished with 202 posts and 70 votes.
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Rafin said:
@BoneyM And the humans? Anyone making sure the looters don't loot the wrong stuff? I expect Petrescu to sent certain parts of his forces "scouting" the depths or the cretche if we tell him about it.
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The humans under Petrescu's command are remaining in the valley for now, and if any of them have been stupid enough to sneak off and head deeper into the Karak solo, you assume Petrescu was happy to let them.
 
Necratoid said:
As to Hangwind's complains about opportunity costs? I think he is forgetting that most of the scouting actions are to determine IF points of interest and resources are still intact and given the same rolls it could have been a total wash of actions anyway.
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It wouldn't be the same rolls, that's not how casuality works.

Well either that or the universe is far more predetermined than I'm comfortable with, and I feel like this quest isn't the right place for an existential crisis.
Necratoid said:
Long term a spell mastery triggered so long term gain on the personal side... versus slowed progress on the immediate army side.
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So we traded the lives of our allies for power. That's...not a strong defense.
 
[X] You've finished scouting, you'll return to the Vanguard...
-[X] By slipping out the King's Gates.

I dont want to be the wizard that disappears, and only shows back up to crash on our hoast's coach.
 
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