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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Hangwind said:
Time for be unpopular.

Okay guys, this idea is both dangerous and unnecessary. Even if we pulled it off, it wouldn't disrupt anything. These are merchant equivalents for their people; they're expendable. Let's keep our eyes on the prize and do what we came here to do.
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Warpstone teeth and plate armor skin? Yeah, no. I'll buy the Gobbo not being the overall leader, but it's at least a sub commander. And that's without getting into the whole, start a mess with Stormvermin in the middle of the camp. Trying to kill those will kill dozens, possibly hundreds of Goblins. And that's without the unholy mess it would cause, or the added hostility that might mean the goblins get taken in the back by the skaven, just as the dwarves are attacking.
 
[X] Collapse the structure into the Orc pit using Pall of Darkness on the bonfire and Substance of Shadow on supports
[X] Try to sow discord between Goblin and Skaven leaders with mind-altering spells (Bewilder, Eye of the Beholder).
 
[X] Doppelganger to look like one of the armored Skaven, then try and assassinate the Goblin Leader. Be seen as a Skaven assassin, then flee into the shadows.

High risk, high reward. But we spent like 30 favors combined on gear to negate the risk. Let's reap the reward.
 
[X] You've scouted this area, now...
-[X] To the Chiselwards, an enormous warren of tunnels that could house any number of horrors.

I really don't like the assassination plan. We're here to scout, we've scouted. Let's check out the other unknowns and leave.
 
[X] You've scouted this area, now...
-[X] To the Chiselwards, an enormous warren of tunnels that could house any number of horrors.
 
[X] Doppelganger to look like one of the armored Skaven, then try and assassinate the Goblin Leader. Be seen as a Skaven assassin, then flee into the shadows.
 
[X] You've scouted this area, now...
-[X] To the Temple of Grungni, to check if the holy place remains undesecrated.
 
primemountain said:
Look mate, I get you're worried, but have some facts. Guns don't have the range of bows in WHFB, but they do have quite a bit of range. Since we have time to line up a shot, and have a reasonably good dwarven gun, so our effective range is something like 20-80m, for a human sized target. A headshot is probaby hard at that distance, but again, all the time in the world to aim the shot and make it count, as well as being able to brace the weapon. Take no Heed is used on approach, if needed, and after switching our mien with Doppelganger to escape. Again, if that turns out to be the way to get gone, rather then just becoming an invisible shadow, and fucking off.

It's not meant to hide us while we are firing, that's an entirely different spell, one we don't know.

The targets are well illuminated, and over a pit, so we have long, clear firing lanes, and warrens to escape to after shooting. It's risky, but if the Goblin is a Leader, and it seems to be, based on warpstone and armor, then that's a big deal. Goblins losing a leader are even worse than orcs losing one, especially with an army pressing on them.

It is risky, but it is exaclly the kind of risk Mathilde is built to take. That doesn't mean it will work, or we get out for sure. We could die here. But that is true in any battle. It's a calculated risk, a decent risk, for good rewards.
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It's not just risky, it's unnecessarily risky. I'm not assuming we'll die here; we have the power and skill set to get away. But I'm not going to assume we can get away clean. Take No Heed works as long as we're not being or doing anything unusual. Being a skaven aiming a gun in the middle of a room in the lead-up to the assassination, while we're taking all the time in the world, is pretty unusual. We don't have to be directly next to the goblin leader, but we do have to be in the room, surrounded by goblins. Then, we bring all the attention and animosity in the room on us. That's basically the absolute worst case scenario of any other possible plan, and it's the goal of this one.

So, yeah, there are a lot of risks, and they're all ones that could be planned around or avoided completely if we took a different tack. We could assassinate one of them without deliberately drawing attention to us. We could free the rats in the cages. We could collapse the platform they're on. All of those things would let on that something happened, sure, but they wouldn't point suspicion directly at us.
 
[X] Doppelganger to look like one of the armored Skaven, then try and assassinate the Goblin Leader. Be seen as a Skaven assassin, then flee into the shadows.

Incredibly brazen subterfuge is the best subterfuge!
 
Kinruush said:
It's not just risky, it's unnecessarily risky. I'm not assuming we'll die here; we have the power and skill set to get away. But I'm not going to assume we can get away clean. Take No Heed works as long as we're not being or doing anything unusual. Being a skaven aiming a gun in the middle of a room in the lead-up to the assassination, while we're taking all the time in the world, is pretty unusual. We don't have to be directly next to the goblin leader, but we do have to be in the room, surrounded by goblins. Then, we bring all the attention and animosity in the room on us. That's basically the absolute worst case scenario of any other possible plan, and it's the goal of this one.

So, yeah, there are a lot of risks, and they're all ones that could be planned around or avoided completely if we took a different tack. We could assassinate one of them without deliberately drawing attention to us. We could free the rats in the cages. We could collapse the platform they're on. All of those things would let on that something happened, sure, but they wouldn't point suspicion directly at us.
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What room? The entire thing is a massive cavern, with both of them standing on a platform above a pit filled with orcs, with their guards near the landing. Not sure how big the hole is, but I'm guessing Mat will airwalk/climb to a rooftop on one of the edges, take her shot from across the pit, and GTFO, with only the shadow of a running rat tail being spotted. By the time the alarm is raised and goblins start searching(because they have to shout to give orders) she'll be in a shadow and moving shadow to shadow, invisible and intangible, or already look like another goblin and moving under Take no Heed. Just another goblin responding to the alarm. And all the other goblins will be distracted by all the other Skaven fighting to GTFO themselves. Since the Skaven will also think this is a backstab the instant she shoots.

EDIT: real threats, as far as I can see, is a shaman we haven't seen, or the goblin leader being a shaman and sensing our spells, or the Giant Rat goblin Cavalry might be able to track us by scent.
 
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BoneyM said:
Above average in magical power, below average in spell variety. But the latter isn't necessarily a handicap. I fear not the wizard who has practiced 10,000 spells once, but I fear the wizard who has practiced one spell 10,000 times.
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I loved Mathilde's usage of Mindhole in the early parts of the quest.

"Wha-"

MINDHOLE

It's like her signature Omnitool! Forget Blessed Hands or Grasping Shadows, Mindhole was the best.
 
I have an exfiltration suggestion:
-[] After taking the shot, break line of sight and use Doppleganger to mimic a goblin and Take No Heed.

A goblin fleeing an altercation isn't exactly unusual.
 
primemountain said:
Warpstone teeth and plate armor skin? Yeah, no. I'll buy the Gobbo not being the overall leader, but it's at least a sub commander. And that's without getting into the whole, start a mess with Stormvermin in the middle of the camp. Trying to kill those will kill dozens, possibly hundreds of Goblins. And that's without the unholy mess it would cause, or the added hostility that might mean the goblins get taken in the back by the skaven, just as the dwarves are attacking.
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Okay? Merchants always have a lot of bling. Hell, look at Marienburg forces-they're always decked out to the nines. Does that make them a powerful force? Hell no!

Neither of them have noticeable battle scars. They're wheeling and dealing over a slave trade on the eve of battle. The deal is either over or not anywhere near complete given the number of empty cages. The only thing that's going to be relevant is the rats they have on hand right now, and that's the information we were sent to gather.

You're basically looking at a guy with a big car and gold teeth and assuming he must run the streets when he is a well paid but expendable lackey.

Next, you're assuming that the goblins are going to immediately blame the Skaven slave merchant. No, even Goblins understand Skaven politics and will realize that it's much more likely to be a rival. If anything, we're just more likely to get caught because of putting the whole fort on alert.

Finally, even if the goblins do start attacking the Skaven, so what? They're a small detachment. Again, expendable. They're going to be fighting to get away, not trying to take out vital strategic targets. Sure, they might kill some chaff, but so what? Goblins are easily replaced unless they're leaders or mages, meaning that even if the plan goes perfectly, it still makes no difference.

In the end, this plan is high risk, no reward.
 
[X] Doppelganger to look like one of the armored Skaven, then try and assassinate the Goblin Leader. Be seen as a Skaven assassin, then flee into the shadows.
 
[X] Attempt to interfere with the Hall of the Moon...
-[X] By freeing the Orc prisoners.

I agree with Kinruush, Plan Doppelganger is unnecessarily risky and complicated, too many moving parts.

unlock or blast open the Orc Pen, GTFO, job done.

most Mayhem for least work.


-[X] To the Armoury, to check if the ancient weapons remain sealed away.

If we can, I think that the dwarf buffs are the most important thing at this point. we can check out the Skaven issue later, or if they end up being a problem in the fight, the buffs will help out as well.
 
[X] You've scouted this area, now...
-[X] To the Chiselwards, an enormous warren of tunnels that could house any number of horrors.

I am going for the boring but practical, and I hate myself for it. Assasination is fun, but we are on a recon mission, and dwarves value dependability above all.

Chiselwards because it is the most likely source if unscouted enemies, and I value actionable data over morale boosts.
 
Say @BoneyM might I ask from what Mathilde can see roughly how many Goblins and Skaven are in this cavern? I am trying to get an idea of how large this enemy force is.
 
[X] Attempt to interfere with the Hall of the Moon...
-[X] By freeing the Orc prisoners.

This is vastly better at getting these guys killed, comparatively. Sometimes the generic options are better because we don't overthink them.
 
Mopman43 said:
We stand right where we are, put on a doppelganger, shoot the goblin, and run. Freeing the Orcs, however we might go about it, would be far more complicated.
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I think the biggest issue is that it relies on the paranoia of both parties to work, if for some reason they don't start killing each other we end up with a massive problem.
 
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