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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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DragonParadox said:
She is a trained wizard of the Jade College, thus I expect that her most advanced skill is actually using Jade Magic. That seems entirely reasonable to me, I do not feel that needs any further proof.
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And your previous claim that "requires no further proof" was already proven false.
You have no idea what Pan is doing, or how much of that involves, nor what she is actually trained in.
We know she has learned about Jade magic, but what does that even mean?
What kind of education do the Jades give their apprentices? It seems to involve using waystones as batteries, that is something we (and Mathilde) just learned.
What else is there we have no clue about?
 
Omegahugger said:
He's adorable.

Like, a dedicated Antonite could and probably should dig through the thread and find tons of moments of Anton being an absolute cinnamon roll, and that is probably the strongest argument you can make in favour of any option.

You'll note that despite the paragraphs of passionate speeches the Cythonians have produced, most of the people voting for it cite the simple yet effective statement "because dragon".
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I guarantee you that if Anton was a dragon, this vote would have probably been shut out by now.
 
Garlak said:
Ugh, the debate between Johann and Panoramia got fierce and then got circular and prolonged and... and somehow, it's the freaking dragon that's winning a lot. And nobody's even arguing for the dragon at all, just voting and ugh. And it's the one vote I least want to see win, too.

Just... everybody who's voting for the dragon, if you're voting for him 'just because you want to social a dragon', can you please hold off a turn? Just one turn?

For those of us that want a romance, and that want a romance with a human, with somebody who's our freakin' age and culture and all, rather than somebody a hundred or a thousand times older and a non-humanoid race to boot. >< Like, seriously, is it too much to ask we pick somebody who's a human? For romance?

Look, everybody will be interested in talking to the dragon. You can be pretty darn sure he'll win social votes. So even next, he'll likely win any vote, too. But currently, it's romance-tagged, and I don't want to see Anton or Johann or even Panoramia lose out in romance to a dragon just because people are curious about a dragon and... argh.

So if we pick anybody else than the dragon, then next turn we can just pick the dragon as a non romance option, right?

Whereas for those of us wanting a romance with a human, we're stuck seeing if the dragon romance gets anywhere at all first, and only then can we return to the field?
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People do not really argue for the dragon because the arguments have allready been said and everybody agreed with them, even people who disagreed with the dragon vote, so they saw no point. There are only so many ways one can say "Anton is like a puppy with really good chemistry with Mathilde" "the dragon social was actually really interesting and they seem to share some interests with Mathilde" or "Roswita is our previous boss daughther and we had some interesting arcs/interactions with her" . People seem to disagree on who Pan or Johann are, and so they argue about that, but everyone knows what the other options are and stand for, so they just vote on them or against them based on past knowledge and discussion.
 
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[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin

None of the others have anything close to chemistry with Mathilde. And honestly, I just wanted to see what this will even look like. It's too crazy not to go for.
 
If you guys think agriculture is boring then it's our job as a magister and Panoramia's friend/potential girlfriend to liven it up!

Using dwarves hell flames is merely the beginning!

Use those shadow knives for sickles, get our shadow steed involved!

Drag the We into this shit!

We're Mathilde Weber and we can make anything balls to the walls insane!!!!
 
SuperSonicSound said:
How is anything relevant when discussing the merits of a romance vote in a quest where ultimately what we're really deciding is which character ends up getting narrative importance and we will be reading more about.
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But that is not what the issue was about.
To me seems like you were claiming that Pans job must involve magic and spells, because agriculture is boring.
Which i think is not only untrue, but also sounds nonsensical.
 
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Julia, to see what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.

[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann
 
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Valmond said:
And your previous claim that "requires no further proof" was already proven false.
You have no idea what Pan is doing, or how much of that involves, nor what she is actually trained in.
We know she has learned about Jade magic, but what does that even mean?
What kind of education do the Jades give their apprentices? It seems to involve using waystones as batteries, that is something we (and Mathilde) just learned.
What else is there we have no clue about?
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Are you going to let go of that one statement that was refuted by the GM at some point, or just keep circling back to it endlessly in an attempt to undermine everything I say including the fact that Jades are trained primarily to use magic? Just as Mathilde was primarely trained to do that and not be a spy or a spymaster so too are all other wizards It's the colleges of magic, not the colleges of vaguely magic adjacent stuff
 
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DragonParadox said:
Are you going to let go of that one statement that was refuted by the GM at some point, or just keep circling back to it endlessly in an attempt to undermine everything I say including the fact that Jades are trained primarily to use magic? Just as Mathilde was trained to do that and not be a spy or a spymaster so too are all other wizards It's the colleges of magic, not the colleges of vaguely magic adjacent stuff
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Until you manage to back your claims on what Pan does, or how unimpressive it is...
No.

edit-
As for the point that jades are trained primarily to use magic.
Irrelevant to the actual argument.
Also unproven, but even if it is the case, does nothing to the actual point of contention.
 
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Valmond said:
But that is not what the issue was about.
To me seems like you were claiming that Pans job must involve magic and spells, because agriculture is boring.
Which i think is not only untrue, but also sounds nonsensical.
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No... you misunderstood. I was talking about what would be the only saving grace to make her job more interesting to read about and then pointed out that ultimately a number of the very basic spells that a Green magister learns does the lion share of the magic work needed. Now obviously BoneyM has stated there's something hidden that she's doing which involves the druidic past of the colleges rather than the teclesian magic that they were taught that's so secretive the Jade college has dispensation to murder people over.

So obviously there's something more interesting although so help me if it's a jade a equivalent of chammon apparition binding (not literally equivalent) I'ma be so disappointed.

Any way @BoneyM I thought Pan was more secular than the Jade order as a whole and didn't cleave the non-secular druid stuff?
 
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Elder Hluodwica, High Priestess of Esmerelda and civilian leader of the Eight Peaks Halflings.
[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia
 
SuperSonicSound said:
How is anything relevant when discussing the merits of a romance vote in a quest where ultimately what we're really deciding is which character ends up getting narrative importance and we will be reading more about.

Pans mission is fundamentally boring, like the concept its self is neat but the details are not going to be interesting to read about, this is a preference. Something I would think a lot of people probably agree about given that most novels that sell well don't focus on the plucky farmer that goes about farming. The details of farming are boring. It's hard work but reading about it isn't stimulating, if we vote for Pan it's the kind of stuff that will be in the story more and i'm not interested.



Mathilde the character doesn't. We the player base do because we the player base aren't Mathilde.
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You can say that about literally any topic. Engineering is boring, it's just a bunch of guys fiddling with tools. History is boring, who wants to research old papers and coins? Etc.

It's all about how you frame it, and I trust BoneyM to be able to handle it in an interesting way. At the very least, if you want to dismiss Panoramia's work, you're discounting Waystones and using our windsight as she works with them.
 
Garlak said:
Huh, did that happen? I remember everything else in the post but I don't remember that part, but if it did and I had just forgotten it I wouldn't be too surprised. Did he donate some money or equipment to the expedition, or to the Stirlanders that joined it, or what?
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He loaded up an entire wagon of crossbows and shipped it out gratis to arm the expedition. Considering how much of his income comes from the crossbow factory and how many you can throw into a wagon, that was probably a bit of a hit to his checkbook.
 
Valmond said:
And your previous claim that "requires no further proof" was already proven false.
You have no idea what Pan is doing, or how much of that involves, nor what she is actually trained in.
We know she has learned about Jade magic, but what does that even mean?
What kind of education do the Jades give their apprentices? It seems to involve using waystones as batteries, that is something we (and Mathilde) just learned.
What else is there we have no clue about?
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You're really giving me the impression of talking out of both sides of your mouth pretty hard here.

On the one side no claims can be made about what she does because we can't know what any of it means. On the other she's obviously absolutely irreplaceable and load bearing?
 
Angelform said:
It is my understanding (and @BoneyM can correct me if I am wrong) that all the [ROMANCE] actions guarantee is that Mathilde will express interest. There is no certainty that the other character will be receptive. Or that the two will be able to make things work between them. As the recent Study Coin action showed; just because Mathilde and the thread think something is viable doesn't mean it actually is.
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Correct.

Rafin said:
@BoneyM Is Mathilde's heavy leaning on math, grids and modular spells a nod to the fact that her very first spell and paper was the Matrix and an expression of her own approach to spellwork? Because if so, it is really flavorful and I like it a lot.
But for all I know Ulgu, or Teclisian magical theory in general, is simply very math heavy for everyone.
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Yes, Mathilde's personal idiom is very logical and modular, and at least part of that is because her first significant foray into advanced magical theory was the Matrix.

Rafin said:
Anyway, is the insight that some spells can in fact be miniaturized and rewritten worth a paper all on its own?
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No, it's already known. It's just rarely useful because it takes a lot of extra effort to save a small amount of magical energy.

DragonParadox said:
I'm literally expressing what her skills are. Maybe the issue is with how you choose to read my comment and not with what I actually wrote.
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Please take a break from this debate.
 
ReImagined said:
You can say that about literally any topic. Engineering is boring, it's just a bunch of guys fiddling with tools. History is boring, who wants to research old papers and coins? Etc.

It's all about how you frame it, and I trust BoneyM to be able to handle it in an interesting way. At the very least, if you want to dismiss Panoramia's work, you're discounting Waystones and using our windsight as she works with them.
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There's an awful lot less you can do to make agricultural work exciting or add tension. Not when the major thing that could add tension (we all starve) is never on the cards because of our trade links and because Pan can use spring bloom and vital growth in the sections of the valley that are completely fine to grow food any way.
 
Yeah I honestly got zero romantic chemistry from the dragon.

The only two dates that felt like actual dates were Pan and Jo.
 
[X] [ROMANCE] Baron Anton Kiesinger II
[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and Expedition.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
 
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