Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[minimap_op]

[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann

[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
[X] Elder Hluodwica, High Priestess of Esmerelda and civilian leader of the Eight Peaks Halflings.
[X] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.

 

[DragonParadox]

Somehow drwaven Karaks have managed to exist without giant flamey towers, and that giant flamey tower would not have saved K8P.
That K8P could exist without Panoramia does not make her success non impressive, and it is not the fact that Eye of Gazul saved K8P what makes it impressive.

Click to shrink...

Dwarfish Karaks in general sure, this Dwarfish Karak, with its small population and dependency on trade, no. I know that because Waagh Birdmuncha proved it live. We could not have survived it without the eye and Iron Rock is still out there growing more orcs.

People have been farming for tens of thousands of years, they have been reclaiming soil for just as long. Now don't get me wrong the scale and the speed at which Pan is doing it is impressive, but it is nowhere near comparable with building an acane-divine masterwork such as has not been seen since before the War of the Beard.

 

[Gavin Prince]

So next turn, is it worth going for a double action on spell creation and risking the second being wasted from crit-succeeding on the first?

From this update, it's looking like one more AP may well not be enough given Mathilde still has to work out a big chunk of the framework, assemble the parts together into a working whole, and then test it to make sure it's reliable enough to cast over allies. Leaving it unfinished before the expedition date isn't a great option either, after all.

 

[chocolote12]

[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann

Cython, of course. But if we have to go for a squishy human, I want the person who attack-hellos a battle mage master rather than the person who makes me want to write a bloodborne style rant about rolling eyes.

 

[DragonParadox]

So next turn, is it worth going for a double action on spell creation and risking the second being wasted from crit-succeeding on the first?

From this update, it's looking like one more AP may well not be enough given Mathilde still has to work out a big chunk of the framework, assemble the parts together into a working whole, and then test it to make sure it's reliable enough to cast over allies. Leaving it unfinished before the expedition date isn't a great option either, after all.

Click to shrink...

We still have one more free action just before the expedition, we can finish the spell then if it really does need three actions.

 

[AzuraNyx]

[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann

[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
[X] Elder Hluodwica, High Priestess of Esmerelda and civilian leader of the Eight Peaks Halflings.
[X] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.

 

[SuperSonicSound]

[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann

Cython, of course. But if we have to go for a squishy human, I want the person who attack-hellos a battle mage master rather than the person who makes me want to write a bloodborne style rant about rolling eyes.

Click to shrink...

Yea, the Pan scenes are actively aggravating to read so I feel you.

 

[Valmond]

Dwarfish Karaks in general sure, this Dwarfish Karak, with its small population and dependency on trade, no. I know that because Waagh Birdmuncha proved it live. We could not have survived it without the eye and Iron Rock is still out there growing more orcs.

People have been farming for tens of thousands of years, they have been reclaiming soil for just as long. Not don't get me wrong the scale and the speed at which Pan is doing it is impressive, but it is nowhere near comparable with building an acane-divine masterwork such as has not been seen since before the War of the Beard.

Click to shrink...

Yes, in this particular instance, the Eye proved absulutely necessary.
In another, the fields might have.
None of this matters on the "how impressive is this" scale.

And the scale of what Pan is doing is something we would struggle, today, it is genuinely, mind boglingly, impressive.
As for the Eye, Mathilde's original plan was upgraded, a lot, by some pretty major players, she never could have done that on her own (well, maybe in a decade, who knows what she learns in that time).
Everything Mathilde did built on works of those who came before, sometimes it was built on by those who did come before, that people have been farming for thousands of years does not make Pans acchievements any less impressive.

 

[10moorem II]

That's.... a strange way of putting things. Johann understands Mathilde. Where Pann was a star struck fan girl though Johann was in many ways already Mathildes equal during the expedition and even got one over her intrigue wise by actually being a Magister already and Mathilde not realising it until later.

Regardless Johann does get Mathilde, its just instead of poking holes in Mathildes Fun he's happy to run with things and even amplify that. Pan on the other hand is willing to do no such thing which is kind of annoying to read consistently.

Click to shrink...

She got over the fangirling rather quick, and if we're to compare from back then then Johann was a very shifty boi who was actively trying to lie to Mathilde.

Furthermore I'm saying she has the largest understanding of us when compared to the others. Annoying or not the fact that she can do that while Johann never shows that indicates a higher level of understanding.

I suppose we simply took different things away from the romance socials. I never really thought of Panoramia as annoying.

 

[Godwinson]

Boy, am I getting sick of reading people passive-aggressively mudslinging at characters in an effort to worsen their chances of winning the romance vote.

[X] Stirland, to see for yourself how the war against Sylvania is progressing.
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] Julia, to see what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.

 

[Shovern]

One last thing before I finally hit the hey, I'm fucking psyched that the Dragon might win the romance Vote. Like I fully expect them to shoot Mathilde down. But I'm still hyped for it.

 

[Valmond]

I mean, at this point, if Pan did throw it at a different Jade and called it good, I'd count that as a successful Ambition. I just really think along the lines of if it gets done, then it's a success, even if you got someone else to finish the fight. (Within reason).

But yeah, I think we've both expressed our opinions. And yeah Panoramia is Ambitious, won't argue that.

Click to shrink...

I think the difference is in "success" and "my success", first is great for a goal oriented person who just wants things done, while the later is more for people with personal ambitions.
And the way i see it, Mathilde and Pan are both on the later category, not sure which Johann lands in.

 

[Parzival95]

[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.

 

[Boney]

Can we get a platonic Cython vote? Feeling them out for more extensive conversations? That's what I want the most, and what I feel would be pretty popular with people that adore Cython and only want to spend more time with this character. That can probably be extended to all the romance options actually.

Click to shrink...

Once a course is plotted the rest of the candidates will once more be available platonic interactions.

 

[SuperSonicSound]

She got over the fangirling rather quick, and if we're to compare from back then then Johann was a very shifty boi who was actively trying to lie to Mathilde.

Furthermore I'm saying she has the largest understanding of us when compared to the others. Annoying or not the fact that she can do that while Johann never shows that indicates a higher level of understanding.

Click to shrink...

Thing is Johann does get us, he's just not out there constantly going "Look at me I grew up and can tell you're making a joke!" where as Johann is going "I got your back Fam." both in a literal sense when out fighting and also in a social sense. look at him wheeling in the Warboss corpse to help Mathilde make a more poignant display. I couldn't see Pan being willing to do that.

 

[DragonParadox]

Yes, in this particular instance, the Eye proved absulutely necessary.
In another, the fields might have.
None of this matters on the "how impressive is this" scale.

And the scale of what Pan is doing is something we would struggle, today, it is genuinely, mind boglingly, impressive.
As for the Eye, Mathilde's original plan was upgraded, a lot, by some pretty major players, she never could have done that on her own (well, maybe in a decade, who knows what she learns in that time).
Everything Mathilde did built on works of those who came before, sometimes it was built on by those who did come before, that people have been farming for thousands of years does not make Pans acchievements any less impressive.

Click to shrink...

Panormia is also building on the work of those who came before to a far greater degree than Mathilde. She is Jade wizard growing crops, that is fundamental to her skill set and magic, like a Grey Wizard building a spy network. Look at what Mathilde has done, she had gotten Kragg the Grim to collaborate with her as a wizard, she had gotten him to collaborate with other wizards, she got the Grey Patriarch to march out here and add his own skills and build this never before seen marvel. Panoramia is just growing food, more food and cheaper food than would otherwise be available but still very much in her wheelhouse. Befriending runesmiths and building divine superweapons is not in any wizard's wheelhouse.

I'll be honest if this is a preview of what a Panoramia romance would be like, being told that growing cabbages is equivalent to forging never before seen arcane marvels because look they are really big cabbages, then I am growing more and more inclined to vote for Johan.

 

[TotallyNotEvil]

[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann

Hardcore in his pursuit of magic? Check. Ambitious? Check. Scrappy undersog? Check. Plays good cop to our bad cop on his own initiative? Check. Glorious golden abs? Check. Wheels in frozen orc statues for us to show off? Mega check.

@edit: at least this gives us a chance of riding a dragon:
[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin

 

[serapheus]

[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia

 

[Valmond]

Panormia is also building on the work of those who came before to a far greater degree than Mathilde. She is Jade wizard growing crops, that is fundamental to her skill set and magic, like a Grey Wizard building a spy network. Look at what Mathilde has done, she had gotten Kragg the Grim to collaborate with her as a wizard, she had gotten him to collaborate with other wizards, she got the Grey Patriarch to march out here and add his own skills and build this never before seen marvel. Panoramia is just growing food, more food and cheaper food than would otherwise be available but still very much in her wheelhouse. Befriending runesmiths and building divine superweapons is not in any wizard's wheelhouse.

I'll be honest if this is a preview of what a Panoramia romance would be like, being told that growing cabbages is equivalent to forging never before seen arcane marvels because look they are really big cabbages, then I am growing more and more inclined to vote for Johan.

Click to shrink...

Yes, Mathilde managed to get Kragg to collaborate with a wizard, that is impressive, far more so than the Eye of Gazul.
But we were not talking about that, the doomtower was a project of multiple masters of their crafts, and towards the end Mathilde was downright minor collaborator even if it was her original idea.

And your description of what Panoramia is doing as "growing gabbages" is ludicrously dismissive of what she has actually done.

 

[Shane_357]

Panormia is also building on the work of those who came before to a far greater degree than Mathilde. She is Jade wizard growing crops, that is fundamental to her skill set and magic, like a Grey Wizard building a spy network. Look at what Mathilde has done, she had gotten Kragg the Grim to collaborate with her as a wizard, she had gotten him to collaborate with other wizards, she got the Grey Patriarch to march out here and add his own skills and build this never before seen marvel. Panoramia is just growing food, more food and cheaper food than would otherwise be available but still very much in her wheelhouse. Befriending runesmiths and building divine superweapons is not in any wizard's wheelhouse.

I'll be honest if this is a preview of what a Panoramia romance would be like, being told that growing cabbages is equivalent to forging never before seen arcane marvels because look they are really big cabbages, then I am growing more and more inclined to vote for Johan.

Click to shrink...

I'm going to be really honest here - a lot of your problems with Panoramia are coming across as looking down on agriculture workers as a thing. I know it's not what you intend, but it is what is starting to come across - a deregatory elitism that sees the backbone of civilisation as trivial compared to big shinies.

 

[BurnNote]

Boy, am I getting sick of reading people passive-aggressively mudslinging at characters in an effort to worsen their chances of winning the romance vote.

Click to shrink...

Heh, I actually expected a lot more agressive-agressively mudslinging at characters, and have been pleasantly surprised how overall civil things have been. I suppose it helps that it's not been done as an all-or-nothing vote.

One last thing before I finally hit the hey, I'm fucking psyched that the Dragon might win the romance Vote. Like I fully expect them to shoot Mathilde down. But I'm still hyped for it.

Click to shrink...

That is, sadly, a plausible possibility, but I'd be chuffed to even get there.

Using one Wind to manipulate another is a fairly well-established idea, albeit in the form of Necromancy. What about using a Wind to manipulate itself? Can a larger spell create localized Skywalk at enough of a distance to keep the small amount of energy from being influenced by the much larger amount that the spell as a whole would be made of?

Click to shrink...

Since I've finally gotten time to talk about the update itself, I want to highlight this. This is great. It's like the denouncement scene in a good detective novel, where the clues come together to make a conclusion that seems obvious in hindsight.
In general, the science scenes are just bloody good. I've said it before, but it bears repeating.

I'm also super happy that the tongs idea has borne out at least a little bit. Whether we can make it work is another thing entirely, but it's a very promising first start.

 

[DragonParadox]

Yes, Mathilde managed to get Kragg to collaborate with a wizard, that is impressive, far more so than the Eye of Gazul.
But we were not talking about that, the doomtower was a project of multiple masters of their crafts, and towards the end Mathilde was downright minor collaborator even if it was her original idea.

And your description of what Panoramia is doing as "growing gabbages" is ludicrously dismissive of what she has actually done.

Click to shrink...

The tower is as much of a project of collaboration as it is of Mathilde's direct skills, he was the one who proposed it, she was the one who brought the people to the table and as for the growing cabbages comment I think we needed to put things into perspective, what Paanoramia is doing is what most Jade Magisters could do, she is not bringing any unique skills or abilities to the table, the only thing that is special about it is that she insists on not getting more magical help because she wants it all to herself. If Mathilde had that attitude about the eye everyone in K8P would be dead.

 

[Valmond]

Like, Eye of Gazul is super impressive.
But it is impressive as a feat of diplomacy for Mathilde.
The worlds greatest rune smith, the magical greatest tower builder (among humans) and leader of the Grey college, and a dwarf priest (no idea how they rank among dwarf priests) joined together to build a super awesome doomtower.
It is something the likes that has not been since since the War of the Beard.
Magically speaking, Mathilde's contribution was relatively minor.
That said, Mathilde has plenty of other, more magical, impressive feats to herself, and she is super impressive in general.

Panoramia creating a biosphere from almost nothing is also super impressive, maybe not as impressive as a doom tower from the age of myths, but super impressive nonetheless.

The tower is as much of a project of collaboration as it is of Mathilde's direct skills, he was the one who proposed it, she was the one who brought the people to the table and as for the growing cabbages comment I think we needed to put things into perspective, what Paanoramia is doing is what most Jade Magisters could do, she is not bringing any unique skills or abilities to the table, the only thing that is special about it is that she insists on not getting more magical help because she wants it all to herself. If Mathilde had that attitude about the eye everyone in K8P would be dead.

Click to shrink...

Citation required.

 

[SpaceSloth]

[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia
[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.

 

[DragonParadox]

I'm going to be really honest here - a lot of your problems with Panoramia are coming across as looking down on agriculture workers as a thing. I know it's not what you intend, but it is what is starting to come across - a deregatory elitism that sees the backbone of civilisation as trivial compared to big shinies.

Click to shrink...

That is not my intent, honestly I don't mind Panoramia, just the insistence that all the work all the risks and all the luck that went into Mathilde's feats that it many ways culminated with the Eye can be matched by doing the thing your Wind is good for and doing it a lot. It's not about agriculture. If she were a Grey and the argument went 'but look at how big the spy network is' it would be just as bad.