- Location
- Utrecht
edit: I don't think anyone likes the Drucchi.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Travler66
Let her name echo in song!
- Location
- Beyond
- Location
- Earth
QM has asked we pull back on boon debate, so I'll just end with this: Some folks are saying the boon should benefit Mat. Once upon a time we wrote in Mat's loyalties. It was to the Empire. The only way I can figure out he Boon spending on Mat herself, is if it will let her be better in service to the Empire. Otherwise, it's time to prove our loyalties, ne?
Whoever is making the plans, I'd like to include an option to train as a commander, since fate keeps pushing us into the roll. If only so Mat can get Command (Basic). She has Strategy and Tactics (Greenskins and Skaven) as well as the Warrior of Fog, but it would be helpful if she know about Command, Strategy and Tactics to not disgrace herself if she is ever put into position of command as a Thane. We have Strategy as a general skill, let's get Tactics or Command.
[X] Ask an acquaintance to train you in a skill: specify who and what?
-[X] King Kazador Thunderhorn, Tactics, Command
Whoever is making the plans, I'd like to include an option to train as a commander, since fate keeps pushing us into the roll. If only so Mat can get Command (Basic). She has Strategy and Tactics (Greenskins and Skaven) as well as the Warrior of Fog, but it would be helpful if she know about Command, Strategy and Tactics to not disgrace herself if she is ever put into position of command as a Thane. We have Strategy as a general skill, let's get Tactics or Command.
[X] Ask an acquaintance to train you in a skill: specify who and what?
-[X] King Kazador Thunderhorn, Tactics, Command
Yes, though each additional one costs an AP.
No, it's a mistake on my part. Fixed.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wait, didn't Mathilde kinda already metaphorically find the final chapter of the book that Johann has dedicated his life to writing? As in, finding detailed engineering books about a shit-ton of Skaven stuff? Because that feels like it would mean that just studying the Skaven gadgets is super inefficient. I wonder if he'll trade for the books after translation stops being an issue.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
BoneyM; Belegar wants the Queekish-Khazalid Dictionary, and looking at Mathilde's "[ ] Dictate papers: select which two, must be taken with Max's 'receive dictation'." We can get Max to do one of the dictionaries, or half of each - Just checking, does Max know enough Khazalid yet; and does he know enough Queekish to work on the dictionaries at all? (I'm fairly certain this has been asked before, and if so, apologies for the repetition).
Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
i honestly think that Word translation is enough, speaking is just not worth it even if it more valuable
so on AV, I know everyone is getting impatient to do [] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to Dwarven magic-dampening Runes. (2 Dwarf favours) .
but we really should finish off the preliminary investigations. [ ] Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
knowing the full nature of what you are studying e.g. N=0 before you start looking at N=1, N=2, N:3 etc etc. is basic research methods. as it will allow us to have a hypothesis and alternative hypothesis (H=0, H=1) to text for, hopeful getting a bonus?
but we really should finish off the preliminary investigations. [ ] Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
knowing the full nature of what you are studying e.g. N=0 before you start looking at N=1, N=2, N:3 etc etc. is basic research methods. as it will allow us to have a hypothesis and alternative hypothesis (H=0, H=1) to text for, hopeful getting a bonus?
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
It was to the Grey College actually, I remember that discussion. We just swapped it over to the empire when we were planning it out because that's the Grey College's Dogma.
But that's neither here nor there. You can be loyal to something without sacrificing everything you have for its benefit. If we don't spend this close, personal debt on something altruistic that we don't really care about, we won't become disloyal. Trying to tie the two concepts together is unfair.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Ah, something I noticed on the difference-checker; you accidentally turned the bedroom into a second bathroom in the Penthouse.
- Location
- Earth
Already found something I want changed.
Switched the MAX action from black gem to going through Clan Moulder Books.
Also considering having Mathilde go through the Inter-Eshin Correspondence for the Civil War.
@BoneyM Can we have Mathilde reading and writing a report or translating the Inter-Eshin correspondence detailing the Civil War as a Serenity action?
[] Plan: Spoken Queekish v2
-[][MAX] See if you can find more Queekish within those books: All Under-Karagril Clan Moulder books not bound in leather or written on vellum or parchment. Awaiting translation.
-[][JOHANN] Study an artefact: Breathing apparatus, stolen from Clan Skryre
-[][DUCK] Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help
-[][EIC] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
-[] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere.
-[] Try to convince him outright to teach you spoken Queekish.
--[] Deceiver: Continue with the Gambit that teaching you Queekish continues to cause discontent in the Grey Order and of course the Grey Order itself already has Queekish...
-[] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there: Waystones and Waystone maintenance
-[] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to Dwarven magic-dampening Runes. (2 Dwarf favours)
-[] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[][PENTHOUSE] Have a gyrocopter landing pad built into your balcony.
-[][SERENITY] Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery (FRESH)
-[][COIN] The Deceiver: Skaven Gambit
Switched the MAX action from black gem to going through Clan Moulder Books.
Also considering having Mathilde go through the Inter-Eshin Correspondence for the Civil War.
@BoneyM Can we have Mathilde reading and writing a report or translating the Inter-Eshin correspondence detailing the Civil War as a Serenity action?
[] Plan: Spoken Queekish v2
-[][MAX] See if you can find more Queekish within those books: All Under-Karagril Clan Moulder books not bound in leather or written on vellum or parchment. Awaiting translation.
-[][JOHANN] Study an artefact: Breathing apparatus, stolen from Clan Skryre
-[][DUCK] Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help
-[][EIC] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
-[] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere.
-[] Try to convince him outright to teach you spoken Queekish.
--[] Deceiver: Continue with the Gambit that teaching you Queekish continues to cause discontent in the Grey Order and of course the Grey Order itself already has Queekish...
-[] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there: Waystones and Waystone maintenance
-[] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to Dwarven magic-dampening Runes. (2 Dwarf favours)
-[] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[][PENTHOUSE] Have a gyrocopter landing pad built into your balcony.
-[][SERENITY] Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery (FRESH)
-[][COIN] The Deceiver: Skaven Gambit
Even once the translation project is finished, it's going to take a bit to go from instructions along the lines of 'AND THEN TAKE A HUGE HONKING RIP OF WARPSTONE COCAINE AND JUST FUCKING GO NUTS ON THE RADIOACTIVE DEATH ORB' to something buildable and usable by humans.
You can do Dictation with Max to do the dictionaries. It'd be more like collaboration than dictation for this specifically, but mechanically it's identical.
Added to the list of papers.
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You know, now that the dragon has been cleared, it would be very interesting to get it involved in the Waystone project. It's possible that it collaborated with the Old Ones on their works, so could well have a truly unique perspective on geomancy.
In Realms of Sorcery I think it's mentioned that the Magisters of the Light College know how to draw on the Waystone network for power, so there may be something about Hysh that makes it particularly compatible with geomancy as well.
In Realms of Sorcery I think it's mentioned that the Magisters of the Light College know how to draw on the Waystone network for power, so there may be something about Hysh that makes it particularly compatible with geomancy as well.
- Location
- Argentina
I like this plan. I want Wolf to be able to speak Queekish for maximum effect
The joke explained fully:
We know of him because there was an excavated room filled with a collection of tablets, one of which was the complaint tablet.
As nobody ELSE had reason to keep them, the theory is that Ea-Nasir was aware of these slurs upon his integrity and did the equivalent of getting his complaint letters framed in a room full of complaint letters.
As nobody ELSE had reason to keep them, the theory is that Ea-Nasir was aware of these slurs upon his integrity and did the equivalent of getting his complaint letters framed in a room full of complaint letters.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Don't the Coin faces other than Gambler apply to the whole turn?
They do, but it does help me to say what you've got in mind with them.
like the plan, but I think people are jumping the gun on [] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to Dwarven magic-dampening Runes. (2 Dwarf favours) .
we really should finish off the preliminary investigations. [ ] Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
get all the 'level 1' investigations done before the 'level 2' so that we get as many advantages as we can by knowing how the stuff reacts.
[ ] DUCK: Help Johann train his rat-wolf children.
Somebody remind me again, but didn't we pick this or something like this at some point?
Or was it a case of there being two "train the rat-boys" options, with this one opening up after we picked the first "see how Wolf gets along with the rat-wolf pups" option? And thus the old "train rat-wolf children" option still remains afterwards.
Actually wait hmm... Yeah I think the difference was, that the option we took, was a "JOHANN" option, and afterwards a sort of 'follow-up' action appeared under the "DUCK" club category. Yes, I think that's it.
(Difference might be something like "raise them with affection and care to make sure they're the equivalent of house-trained and also not-hostile to humans/dwarfs/halflings/etc" versus "K9/blind-seeing-eye-dog/hunting dog" training. Training for a pet versus training for best-in-show.)
But, the Clan Moulder books. And the Inter-Eshin correspondence about the Civil War. Those are going to be in Queekish. So Mathilde can probably translate them herself.
Should there be an option or action dedicated to the Moulder and Eshin;s Skaven Civil War books somewhere perhaps?
Or, is it assumed that that stuff is going to get automatically detailed at the end of the turn?
Somebody remind me again, but didn't we pick this or something like this at some point?
Or was it a case of there being two "train the rat-boys" options, with this one opening up after we picked the first "see how Wolf gets along with the rat-wolf pups" option? And thus the old "train rat-wolf children" option still remains afterwards.
Actually wait hmm... Yeah I think the difference was, that the option we took, was a "JOHANN" option, and afterwards a sort of 'follow-up' action appeared under the "DUCK" club category. Yes, I think that's it.
(Difference might be something like "raise them with affection and care to make sure they're the equivalent of house-trained and also not-hostile to humans/dwarfs/halflings/etc" versus "K9/blind-seeing-eye-dog/hunting dog" training. Training for a pet versus training for best-in-show.)
So the Cathayan books are being translated by somebody else, so we just wait on that.
But, the Clan Moulder books. And the Inter-Eshin correspondence about the Civil War. Those are going to be in Queekish. So Mathilde can probably translate them herself.
Should there be an option or action dedicated to the Moulder and Eshin;s Skaven Civil War books somewhere perhaps?
Or, is it assumed that that stuff is going to get automatically detailed at the end of the turn?
- Location
- Earth
I agree. I just don't think of it as sacrifice, I think of it as Mat fulling her duties. She went, in part, as Empire support. She is doing her job as a Grey magister, by helping the dwarves. I think using this favor for the Empire is a good idea, and if you think it won't generate Great Deeds or Grand Deeds or such with the Empire if we get any of those boons done, you are not thinking about everything.
It's essentially trading our Transcendental Dwarven Boon for several Major Empire Boons, while massively helping the Empire, and hopefully improving Dwarven/Empire relations.
But this is Boon talk, and QM said to keep it down, so let get on the vote, ok?
Also, any plan that has Max helping with the dictionaries is a non starter. This is ours. Make it so. I want Mat to write the book on it. Only go to Max if we fail. This is one of those things that might generate another Great Deed. Mat did all the work. All of it, with a bit of dwarven help. I don't mind Max helping with a lot of stuff. Not this. I want to lob this nuke into the Academic Landscape out of fucking nowhere, not give people heads up to get ready for it.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm liking this plan but I am also tempted by getting at least one of the dictionairies written this turn.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My counterpoint is that after we learn it and pass it on, that is a tool that can be spread to every enemy of Skavenkind. The use of the tool is limited, but taking and interrogating captives that don't speak alternative languages, infiltrating with magical disguises, eavesdropping on conversation, all of those things mean it's still of some use. And the fact that we have the best opportunity to gain this tool that has possibly ever happened in the history of the world means that I'm unwilling to let it go. If Belegar still has us on this project, we might as well work on the next step.
Yeah, they're already on course to being friendly little fluffballs, any additional training would be with utility in mind and investigating what they can be taught to do.
- Location
- Singapore
Understood, will you mind if I PM you a suggestion of how the Boon Vote might be structured in order to avoid an undue focus on finer details (which seems to have played a role in making the debate very messy and heated) and a focus on the higher concept behind the Boon instead?
Onto turn plan thoughts
1. Job Actions
[ ] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere.
I think this is a must, because we probably should avoid any further AP Sinks.
Qrech Gambits:
[ ] Convince Qrech that the Under-Empire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
This should have nice synergies with Rapport. We have facts to convincingly argue this point without resort to making lies via the Deceiver.
[ ] Queekish-Khazalid/Reikspiel Dictionary
- Max to receive Dictation. If I'm not wrong, this should be 1AP with Dictate to Max right?
- I think the main argument here is two fold: Kazalid or Reikspiel first, and whether we should try to fulfill both at once. I actually think we should pull in Linguistic experts from the Empire to ensure the quality of the Reikspiel dictionary because we have a game-changer on our hands.
2. Journeyman Maximilian de Gaynesford, Gold Wizard:
Dictation. Only question is, Khazalid or Reikspiel?
2.5 Magister Johann, Gold Wizard
[ ] JOHANN: Study an artefact: specify which.
Can Johann study the Clan Skyre technical library? If so, I'm all for this action.
3. Wizards of the Eight Peaks
[ ] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
We do have a full library of Clan Skyre manuals and I do appreciate the value of Ratling gun research. We have the materials and Windsight to help him, though not the engineering expertise. And if we are going to have Johann to study the Clan Skyre Warlock Engineer Library, this action will definitely synergize with helping Johann's investigations.
3.5 EIC
[ ] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
I'm all for the rumor mill. Let's get our bearings about what's publically available within the EIC sphere of influence, and how far their rumor mill networks extend, before hiring handlers. Without that rumor mill of publically available information, I feel we are flying blind with our information network.
4. Personal Improvements
[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. Waystones
[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. Practical Diplomacy
[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. Assassination
I'm strongly tempted to suggest that we take two College classes this turn. I'm actually very reluctant to embark on research actions right now, because of the possibility they might turn out to be AP inefficient down the line depending on which Boon we choose.
5. Wolf
[ ] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
I'm actually for taking this Wolf Action, over AV research, for two reasons - we have underinvested in Wolf for too long, and this might be one of the keys needed to maximize our chances of getting down spoken Queekish.
6. Serenity
[] Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery
Time-sensitive and a very rare opportunity. No sense in putting it off I think.
7. Penthouse
[ ] Have a gyrocopter landing pad built into your balcony.
I didn't vote for the Gyrocopter hanger in the last vote because I wanted that landing pad.
8. Final thoughts.
Why am I not suggesting any AV research this turn? I feel that given the sheer length of the AV tech tree, it's a fools errand to sink turn after turn of effort into massive research projects like AV, or Theurgy, or Multi-wind, because it's always going to compete with other priorities set aside in previous turns in favor of it. I don't really think there's a way to realistically hold both the Loremaster job and pursuing those mega-personal research projects on a consistent basis, without some way of improving our research actions to AP efficiency. Higher AP efficiency per research action means that we would be able to actually make synergistic multi-action research action plans, as opposed to painfully squeezing AP turn by turn on single stages.
We have currently no options to do so as far as I can see, short of a Transcendental Boon. I invite anyone who thinks we have the means to show how we can solve the AP-Research Action problem otherwise.
I will leave it as that, but I feel I do need to explain why I'm not for any research plans until it's certain there is no way to do the equivalent of Room of Serenities on our Research Actions.
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