TimEd
Meteor maker
of
Nice. Really is a shame we werent able to swing Anton to meet her, the Crit shiny was too much foe others to bear.
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Nice. Really is a shame we werent able to swing Anton to meet her, the Crit shiny was too much foe others to bear.
Try it and find out.
Between Johann and yourself, you've got the authority to bring new people into the project if you judge them trustworthy, able to help, and in no danger of baulking at or crossing the line of the Articles you're perilously close to but not quite violating.
No. With Breach of Metal, though you get all the information dumped into your mind at once, it takes time and effort to process it all, and further information can be derived by casting it on specific components instead of the entire device. Casting Tale of Metal multiple times to try to figure out what exactly is going on, especially when technosorcery is involved.
Yes. Once Johann is done with the ratling gun, he might claim something else from the backlog to study on his own time, at which point it will be removed from it.
Don't think in terms of peaks, but in terms of fronts. If the entire Hold was retaken tomorrow, then it would be East Gate, West Gate, Karak Drazh underway, and the big question mark of Skaven methods of ingress.
No. In every hold, every able-bodied adult is expected to be able to fight in battle. Even the women, though they only join it en masse in the direst of circumstances. Dwarf 'Warriors' are basically militia.
What they do is have poorer holds in smaller mountains, surrounded by humans.
From memory, some were worried that the sword might have a reputation malus if we didn't get sufficient mileage out of it, and some were hoping that it would have a passive rep income for being legendary. The favours paid for it are what you did to earn it, so there won't be a malus. If you want the sword to be a legend, though, you have to start building one.
@BoneyM would you allow us to spend college favour to get help from an interrogator that can use Mindhole and Illusion (to appear as Mathilde) in the next turn rather than have to argue for it now if that's ok?
It's possible, but adding more moving parts to an ongoing long-term interrogation is always a risk.
Epilogue and quest ends.
Yes.
You'd be swapping a slightly safer room for full access to the teachers of the College.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
ok i am back from being vulnerable with people with whom i exist in a network of emotional bonds and trust, god it must be awful to be a skaven, I genuinely feel terrible for them.
Eh, feature rather than bug, from my perspective. The problem with promising him his freedom is that eventually we have to put up or shut up. "You will be kept here indefinitely, safe from Eshin assassins as I can make you, free of undue duress and given recreational reading" is a pretty reasonable give.
Thank you for the info, that will be very useful for turnplanning.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Well, if he's canny he'll know that that would never be an option. However, nothing says he has to leave his cell. Instead of offering him something he'd see through in a heartbeat, why not offer him real luxuries? Things he can put his hands on and enjoy, or close enough. Rework the rooms to be larger, provide new amenities, keep him actually fed and entertained; we can't let him go, but we can make him very comfortable. Why escape when he can serve the under-empire from luxury, he'll think to himself. And if he wonders at the cost, well, the leftovers of a storied Skaven's lifetime aren't very long to us, in a twist of the usual circumstances; it's really not an imposition to keep him happy for that long, or so the logic goes.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Unless we informed him about the fact we can erase all memory of being our captive - and told him that if he co-operates then once we have learnt the skaven tongue from him, and all he knows about the eastern dwarves, we would do so and then release him (possibly with a few letters to deliver to other skaven to arrange sharing the traitor clans territory).
Lies of course, but it explains why we'd let him go.
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
1) You compare him to us but can we give tactical information relevant to any parts of the empire or Karaz Ankor other than Sylvania or K8P?
2) You talk about how it's a temporary offensive and bring up how we didn't even know about the civil war. Let's turn this around. Is a temporary offensive worth risking a decisive advantage against the Skaven race?
3) You act like he's a cow that we can keep milking for information and ignore that he could die, become uncooperative or escape at any moment. We need to prioritise the most important information first. You can't expect him to be available to provide information whenever we want.
4) The thread's strategy to learn Queekish is to convince him it's unimportant but still valuable to us. Your strategy risks telling him that we consider Queekish the most important thing we can get out of him. In that case he's going to hold it out as much as he can or depending on his loyalty, never ever tell us.
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- Location
- Canada
Links in the vote don't matter, Vote Tally ignores all bbcode stuff. Italics, links, colours, text size (probably, haven't tested that one), etc.
I think it's a bunch of little things.
[ ] [Library] Plan Thingy
[ ] Plan Thingy
^ are two different votes, for example. Also, spelling differences in favor/favour matter.
I believe Vote Tally also only goes into 'Plan counting mode' if the first word after the [ ] is 'Plan'. So [ ] Plan Thingy is a plan, and will count but [ ] [Library] Plan Thingy does not mechanically count as a Plan. Which means voting for the base [ ] [Library] Plan Thingy line with or without its sub options makes two different votes.
Counting by Line gets them all added up correctly, but the subvotes go spiraling off into the aethyr.
Counting by Block or Task keeps the subvotes in order but once again breaks up votes even more.
It's a bunch of small things adding up to a big mess.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
See here's the thing.
Old information leads to assumptions on doctrine, force placement and supply lines based on things that are out of date. Imagine for a moment that you are a commander in Greenland, about to make a Big Play for power on behalf of yourself in the mess that was the Eastern Front. All your information is a year out of date and you're armed with inferior weapons, excepting sets of specialized super commandos and personal WMDs.
You're going to be making some very suspect assumptions on that information. Enough that I judge it to be worthless, particularly at any level of detail below what we already have.
From the conversation with Algard, we already knew a bit about their major settlements, and frankly since a good chunk of this will be handled by Bretonnians who have been fighting the rats for millennia openly I expect them to have better info than we can get. And they're the ones doing most of the fighting in their lands anyway, so what we do has much less bearing in that direction than otherwise. Mostly limited to Greys mucking about.
Which leads to Queekish. We don't actually know how long it will take, given this is roll based, and so arguments about its length hold little water. We can't even really guess beyond possibly project length, so 2 to 4 turns, one of which we've already done. Might take longer, might take shorter. We don't know and so it shouldn't be used to make assumptions of "war'll be over before we can hand it out" because there is very little solid ground to work with there. Including from the direction of how long the war will be, which we have absolutely no idea about even slightly.
As for the point of a single translator. That's coming about it without considering what I said about a Lexicon. If we hand that off to the Grey College they now have alphabet, syntax and grammar. At that point they can harvest up to date intel directly from captured documents. The entire order benefits in such a scenario and it wouldn't be a single translator.
In terms of his loyalty versus us getting Queekish, its a risk. Its also a risk I want to take because anything else has far lesser strategic ramifications than being able to go "All that stuff you're going to be tripping over and be unable to translate? Translated." Which is another reason to get it as fast as feasible. As it stands Queekish documents have lesser value over tools, sabotage and loot when it comes to the Grey Order because they can't translate them and they have to prioritize by usability when looting or breaking. The faster we get that out, the less documents get lost to being left behind because paper or leather is bulky or destroyed to deny them to the Skaven.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Thank you, I think this is it. Oh well, now we know for next time.
One obvious issue of this lie which I'm guessing everyone knows (I'm like a hundred+ pages back, haha) -- though I really like this lie! -- is, naturally, that if we tell him that the Empire already knows Queekish that means we tell him that the Empire already knows Queekish.
It's telling him something that is incredibly valuable and news to him, and thus valuable intel that he would want to bring back to his people if at all possible. (... Unless we also use further lies to convince him that of course some of the Skaven already know/suspect this already, and of course there's the assorted attendant spy-versus-spy fights about it all the time. Not sure if we should, but. Hrm. There's also the further possibility of trying to convince him that some Skaven try to use humans to strike at their Skaven rivals, too. With weird and hilarious examples of intra-departmental spy agency fights where the agencies on one race's side fight against each other, and so do the ones on the other side. i.e. Almost humorous from a certain perspective.)
It's telling him something that is incredibly valuable and news to him, and thus valuable intel that he would want to bring back to his people if at all possible. (... Unless we also use further lies to convince him that of course some of the Skaven already know/suspect this already, and of course there's the assorted attendant spy-versus-spy fights about it all the time. Not sure if we should, but. Hrm. There's also the further possibility of trying to convince him that some Skaven try to use humans to strike at their Skaven rivals, too. With weird and hilarious examples of intra-departmental spy agency fights where the agencies on one race's side fight against each other, and so do the ones on the other side. i.e. Almost humorous from a certain perspective.)
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It does it by this:
[] Name of Vote
-[] Vote 1
-[] Vote 2
-[] Vote 3
There isn't a distinct *plan mode*, so what's happening is that its scanning the post line by line till it hits a bracket with an X in it. That bracketed X has to be the first thing in the paragraph to tell the program "its a vote". Then it reads the text in that vote. Then it looks for -[] sub votes.
That "-" tells the tally that its a subvote of the first vote line. Basically, it runs off bullet points.
That's how it worked in XF1 and I haven't seen any differences in that regard since.
- Location
- Canada
Huh. Alright, well I dunno what's up then.
It definitely seems to mess up votes during Boney's plan phases that don't have the word 'Plan' in front of them, but it could be something else going on under the hood for all I know.
... Okay, the Threadmarks have achieved a new level of weird.
Apocrypha.
"A Quiet Drink" should be in between Soizic part 4 and part 5. Instead, it appears to be between 5 and 6 from the drop-down menu...
But in the opened, View All, menu it is once more "stickied" to the very bottom. (("Sticky'd" is a good term to describe what had happened to the previous story things, and to this one. It's like they get "sticky'd" to stay at the latest/most recent end of a threadmark list.))
... And now, it has added a new dimension of baffling weirdness. Because if you navigate to the Apocrypha story entry? It shows up as being alone in Apocrypha. i.e. The backwards and forwards arrows are missing.
I have no idea what is going on or why, or how, this keeps happening...
EDIT: Also for the record, Threads of Destiny has had this happen to 3 or so threadmarks in one of the categories (I don't remember off the top of my head if it is Sidestory or Apocrypha; might be both.) It's been that way for months and months. It's been itching at me for months and months. No on seems to notice, no one seems to bring it up.
Apocrypha.
"A Quiet Drink" should be in between Soizic part 4 and part 5. Instead, it appears to be between 5 and 6 from the drop-down menu...
But in the opened, View All, menu it is once more "stickied" to the very bottom. (("Sticky'd" is a good term to describe what had happened to the previous story things, and to this one. It's like they get "sticky'd" to stay at the latest/most recent end of a threadmark list.))
... And now, it has added a new dimension of baffling weirdness. Because if you navigate to the Apocrypha story entry? It shows up as being alone in Apocrypha. i.e. The backwards and forwards arrows are missing.
I have no idea what is going on or why, or how, this keeps happening...
EDIT: Also for the record, Threads of Destiny has had this happen to 3 or so threadmarks in one of the categories (I don't remember off the top of my head if it is Sidestory or Apocrypha; might be both.) It's been that way for months and months. It's been itching at me for months and months. No on seems to notice, no one seems to bring it up.
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The thing that I don't understand is that during a regular turn plan vote, votes that have all the details and votes that have just the plan name both get accrued to the same vote. I just ran a block tally of the most recent turn plan vote, and despite a lot of people voting like this:
They still get their plans counted in the main, all-details vote, like so:
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Usually what's going on there I think is, is people doing this:
Have a plan of:
[] Plan Xladie da
-[] Do
-[] dee
-[] Da
and doing
[] Plan Xladie da
[] Do
[] dee
[] Da
That's four separate votes which the tally reads like because they removed the "-":
[] Plan Xladie da
-[] Do
-[] dee
-[] Da
[] Do
[] dee
[] Da
And it royally fucks the Tally. If people vote for a plan with all the gubbins attached, and then that plan changes without changing the name, the tally will get very confused between the two versions of the plan. We've had this happen in this thread before actually.
Its stickied to the bottom because its the most recent one added by Boney, but the Drop down is a bit fucked for reason unknown and the arrows being missing is very weird. Excuse me for a moment.
*goes off to smack the threadmarks with a hammer*
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Yeah, but I can guarantee that didn't happen this turn because I didn't change my plan at all. The weird observed behavior is that the plan with all the bells and whistles and the plan with just the name got counted separately, and that didn't happen earlier (see my last post for citations).
u da best
This set of votes also had a "favour"/"favor" accident too. So that didn't help things...
It's not the most recent added; the most recent one was Soizic, part 6, added a little over an hour -- Today at 7:43 PM -- ago. =/
EDIT: Also, previous post of mine I had edited. It involved me mentioning that Threads of Destiny has been having this issue for even longer. =/
Yesterday at 11:06 AM
It's not the most recent added; the most recent one was Soizic, part 6, added a little over an hour -- Today at 7:43 PM -- ago. =/
EDIT: Also, previous post of mine I had edited. It involved me mentioning that Threads of Destiny has been having this issue for even longer. =/
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- Location
- Canada
Ah, that might be what I was seeing.
Also, gubbins is a good word for those.
- Location
- Berkeley
- We know the right now the Church of Sigmar has its head inserted up its own ass, that there is higher than normal political tension between a number of the Elector Counts, that the line of succession is at least temporarily secure (although a regent would be required for the next two-ish decades), that Stirland is near totally focused on a campaign on Sylvannia and has recently had the battle wizards sent to help out, that a few towns have been mysteriously depopulated, that a few new trade routes are in the process of being put together that will overturn how goods are moved around the Empire... I could go on, but that is a shitload of information that highlights a number of general weak and strongpoints for the Empire.
- A temporary offensive can still cause lasting damage. A temporary offensive that managed to bring down one of the Colleges of Magic or would cause lasting and severe damage to the Empire, for example. While I am also of the opinion that learning Queekish would be a greater overall boost against the Skaven than this particular campaign going a bit better, they are not mutually exclusive and I honestly think that taking the time to let his loyalty fade and get him used to actually volunteering information would increase our total odds of learning Queekish.
- He is not an indefinite resource, but his odds of death, escape, or ceasing to cooperate are neither unobservable nor independent of what we do to/with him. Per Mathilde's talk with the head Grey there is no mundane way the Skaven would know about him and he is kept in the middle of a Dwarf fortress, so assassination odds seem quite low. If he was very elderly and reaching death by old age we would probably be aware, either due to his physical deterioration or our rather extensive literature on Skaven. Escape is pretty much nil given that it's outside his specialty, he has no resources, and on top of mundane defenses if he somehow gets out the door he still gets the fake death triggered. Not cooperating is highly dependent on what we try to do with him, and nudging him for info on the Traitor Clans so that we can point others their direction is about the least likely thing to make him dig in his heels and cease cooperating I can think of.
- While I agree that given his currently displayed loyalties making him believe it is not strategically important to humans is the most likely approach to have work, it is still not guaranteed success and a failure there would still limit possible angles for getting it going forward. Spending more time removed from Skaven society and building a rapport with Mathilde is, in my mind, only likely to increase the odds of said gambit working. I fail to see why interrogating him about strategic information he knows is somehow supposed to tip him off that what we really want from him is this one personal project we try after that—honestly, not at least lightly squeezing for strategic information he's willing to give seems more likely to make him cotton on to just how much we want to learn Queekish.
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
This would only be a worry if he knows that it's valuable intel. He's only interacted with chaos dwarves. What does he know about what intrigues the grey order and clan Eshin run between them?
Even if he does believe it's valuable information, I don't see why that's a problem. In fact, that's better for us because it makes him more willing to share that information if it can give him a chance to escape.
Not sure what having poorer holds does for them, except maybe it means they have less to do and thus fill their time with [abusable Dwarven mining metaphor here]. I'd guess smaller mountains means that they have less ground that they need to stretch their military across in order to defend.
I am disappointed with myself that it took me a good solid minute to puzzle out what humans had to to do with anything, until I realized "oh, as opposed to being surrounded by anything a lot more hostile."
So overall, the Young Holds have population growth not because they possess the secrets of Dwarven Viagra, but because they simply suffer less attrition compared to the Old Holds. Is that correct?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's the normal behavior yeah.The thing that I don't understand is that during a regular turn plan vote, votes that have all the details and votes that have just the plan name both get accrued to the same vote. I just ran a block tally of the most recent turn plan vote, and despite a lot of people voting like this:
They still get their plans counted in the main, all-details vote, like so:@MooseHowl's theory seemed like a plausible explanation as to why it worked then and didn't now.
So what happens is Planmaker makes a plan "Blah":
[] Blah
-[] Vote 1
-[] Vote 2
-[] Vote 3
And a bunch of people do votes of:
[] Blah
And then one person, lets call them Joker, does:
[] Blah
-[] Vote 1
-[] Vote 2
-[] Vote 3
So, in the Tally's little computer software brain there are now two copies of "Blah". If Planmaker changes the plan, even correcting a spelling error then what they've done is created a new plan, but one which is also named under "Blah".
Thus the Tally screws up and doesn't know which one to display. PSA kids: Always change your plan names if you've edited the plan.
As for this specific issue, I think its a cross section of two things: British spellings striking again between "favor" and "favour", and the Task functionality interacting badly with the sub vote functionality.
If you do it by line it actually fuses properly, because its not trying to cram a Task vote into the sub vote functionality and all that's left is to fuse the improperly spelled and labeled "[] Plan no favor mines" votes into the 31 "[] [Library] Plan no favour mine" votes.
Britishisms are tons of fun.
Less beings trying to claim the local resources, less tales of treasure vaults, more impetus to tie themselves in to the economies of their neighbours.
That's the assumption.
Ah, "A Quiet Drink" is no longer wedged in at the bottom. It's between 5 and 6 now. (And it had had one of those "..." dividing lines separating it, too.)
It is however in the wrong spot page-number-wise; it should be in between Part 4 and Part 5.
EDIT:
Using the time-stamp doesn't work because that's just when the threadmark was created, rather than the post itself. (A change that gaaaaah.)
EDIT 2:
Okay now it works! In the... View All version. Still looking weird in the one-click-only variant, but who the heck knows why that happens. I believe it's because the drop-down only orders it by the when-threadmark-created timestamp order and nothing but the threadmark-created timestamp so help us god etc, but who really knows why for sure.
Also, thank you so much for fixing all this.
It is however in the wrong spot page-number-wise; it should be in between Part 4 and Part 5.
EDIT:
Sadly, no. =/ Need to mouse-over their names in order to get the little URL's to pop up, and then compare page numbers from that. And then stick it in where it should go.
Using the time-stamp doesn't work because that's just when the threadmark was created, rather than the post itself. (A change that gaaaaah.)
EDIT 2:
Okay now it works! In the... View All version. Still looking weird in the one-click-only variant, but who the heck knows why that happens. I believe it's because the drop-down only orders it by the when-threadmark-created timestamp order and nothing but the threadmark-created timestamp so help us god etc, but who really knows why for sure.
Also, thank you so much for fixing all this.
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