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Torc of Fire: A reward from the Bright College, it inspires allies and intimidates enemies when activated. Lasts a few minutes, requires fire to recharge.
I believe we voted to hand this off to Francesco, in a kind of 'anoint-the (our)-chosen-leader' sense.
Has it been handed off already off-camera, or will it be done this turn?

As for plan for future plans, I think I'd really like to see Mathilde taking one self-improvement action every turn. Spells, or training, or skills, probably even publishing counts (boosts Rep, on top of other benefits). For me, wolf talk doesn't, but I think others would feel differently.
Alongside that, consistently working on any of our varied backlog projects would be awesome. :V
 
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I believe we voted to hand this off to Francesco, in a kind of 'anoint-the (our)-chosen-leader' sense.
Has it been handed off already off-camera, or will it be done this turn?
This turn. Boney needed to know if we are co-opting undumgi before he determined how exactly do we gift it.
 
I believe we voted to hand this off to Francesco, in a kind of 'anoint-the (our)-chosen-leader' sense.
Has it been handed off already off-camera, or will it be done this turn?

As for plan for future plans, I think I'd really like to see Mathilde taking one self-improvement action every turn. Spells, or training, or skills, probably even publishing counts. For me, wolf talk doesn't, but I think others would feel differently.
Alongside that, consistently working on any of our varied backlog projects would be awesome. :V
IIRC someone asked if the Torc-giving is off-screen, GM replied that it requires an action.
 
And now Johann eats two actions that are unnecessary, could have been spent on personal projects or an actual job.

Because the alternative is...

Well, if you want to keep Snake Juice from Johann because you don't trust him and therefore assign him a task utterly irrelevant to the project of relocating the Spiders, wait until Mathilde get's her private lab up before you start poking around with Snake Juice. In a semi-public lab. Which Johann has access to.



My mistrust of Johann isn't because he is doing something better than Mathilde. I don't trust him because he is acting like a grey wizard. I don't trust people who act like grey wizards. I don't trust grey wizards. If I had to look at Mathilde outside of Mathilde's viewpoint I wouldn't trust her either. Yes that's right. I would not trust the main character if she was not the main character. He's trying to be sneaky and I don't trust him because he's trying to be sneaky. Why is he trying to be sneaky?

Let's look at it another way. Why should we trust Johann? The expedition end epilogues lasted about three months. During those three months he was scouting the skaven looking for tech. Where are the maps of the skaven patrols? Of their defenses? Has he reclaimed any tech yet? If he has would he tell us? If he has been scouting the Skaven for three whole months why was it that we were the ones that had to map out all the defenses?

I mean, you've hit the nail on the head, when you point out that you wouldn't trust Mathilde from outside her viewpoint. If Johann thinks the way he does, why shouldn't he try to be sneaky? Why should he pour out all the intelligence he has gathered about Skaven activities to this skeevy Grey Magister, who would do Sigmar knows what with that information? I can imagine that in a hypothetical Johann quest, much of what is being speculated about Johann right now.... well would also be said about Mathilde in that negaverse Johann quest.

Ultimately, because we didn't have time to really dig down into who Johann was during the expedition due to time constraints, we are acting with very little information about who Johann is. It's very easy to simply speculate the worse about Johann, but ultimately, it's speculative because of how few data points we really have.



It might make Max jealous that one of Mathilde's employee's is getting preferential treatment, while Johann is getting paid to cover his ass and then to persue his pet project Max is busy dealing with spiders. Maybe he'll even quit over it.

It might make Belegar annoyed that he's paying for an employee to do their own projects instead of the projects he sets. Mathilde you should spend your own silver for flirting you know :p.


Mathilde knows how to put forth a case in a certain light, and knows how to hint. Spider Silk is closer to a project that Mathilde conducts for her own intellectual curiosity, and maybe... thoughts to commercializing that silk. It has little to do with relocation. Clan Mors, whom the Spiders are hunting.... has everything to do with the relocation, and getting intel on just how much warpstone heavy weapons they have out there to spare against Spider Hunting parties is vital to making the relocation stick.



It might make Max jealous that one of Mathilde's employee's is getting preferential treatment, while Johann is getting paid to cover his ass and then to persue his pet project Max is busy dealing with spiders. Maybe he'll even quit over it.

Just saying, asking Max to go deep into Clan Mors territory instead of Johann would be a suicide Ops....

Unless Max happens to be an adrenaline junkie who wants to make a deep dive against the Skaven that those Spiders are soon going to be hunting...
 
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There's a number of reasons not give Johann a bunch of slack and let him do what he wants.

It might make Max jealous that one of Mathilde's employee's is getting preferential treatment, while Johann is getting paid to cover his ass and then to persue his pet project Max is busy dealing with spiders. Maybe he'll even quit over it.

It might make Belegar annoyed that he's paying for an employee to do their own projects instead of the projects he sets. Mathilde you should spend your own silver for flirting you know :p.

It might give Johann a big head and think he can do whatever he likes since he's being consistantly paid to not pursue Mathilde's projects and in fact Mathilde is instead working for him to help him pursue his own project rather than the other way around.

Now to be honest I think the above reasons are actually pretty much rubbish, the same for all the reasons supporting him doing what he likes. Max getting jealous is about as likely as Johann getting pissed that he has to actually work for his position, which is to say fairly unlikely.

Mostly I think it's just annoying that we're going to have wasted two half actions and gotten nothing in return. Worse we're going to actually be losing an extra action to help him out with stealing Skaven stuff.
 
IIRC someone asked if the Torc-giving is off-screen, GM replied that it requires an action.

Specifically.

@BoneyM, did Mathilde give the Torc of Fire to Francesco Caravello now that he is the leader of the Undugmi? Or has Mathilde held off on giving it to him?
How that's handled depends on whether Mathilde takes control of them or not.

Big Shrug on if that's gonna automatically have Mathilde yeeting the torc at him this coming turn or if we've got a window of opportunity to snatch up the organization before Edda/Dreng. I imagine there'll be a warning that the option is closing ala the Ambers leaving forever, but it could be a one time thing.
 
Might just be me but I have this strong, very strong feeling that we're really plenty busy without also interfering with the local humans.
 
Might just be me but I have this strong, very strong feeling that we're really plenty busy without also interfering with the local humans.
I think there has been exactly 1 post advocating for undumgi. The consensus is that they are quite useless for a court wizard.
 
While I don't like plan "Citadel Focus" for a variety of reasons, I do want to point out that I find it a little silly to attribute having Johann studying Skaven tech, and us helping him with that, as wasted or mismanaged actions.

We are at war with the Skaven right now, and it would be beyond my belief if King Belegar doesn't eventually ask us to prepare means of defending against or countering the Skaven's sorcerous technology and magic. Establishing some groundwork now about how the Skaven technology works and how it breaks can only help us down the road when we are asked to do just that in preparation for taking the fight to the Skaven.
 
The way I see it there isn't any issues with letting Johann do a full time study and us helping him, but next turn we should make sure he earns his keep by assigning him some appropriate work.
 
While I don't like plan "Citadel Focus" for a variety of reasons, I do want to point out that I find it a little silly to attribute having Johann studying Skaven tech, and us helping him with that, as wasted or mismanaged actions.

We are at war with the Skaven right now, and it would be beyond my belief if King Belegar doesn't eventually ask us to prepare means of defending against or countering the Skaven's sorcerous technology and magic. Establishing some groundwork now about how the Skaven technology works and how it breaks can only help us down the road when we are asked to do just that in preparation for taking the fight to the Skaven.
Eh... maybe. The thing is, we're gonna be centuries behind the Dwarves in dealing with Skaven and their tech.
Ask Regimand.
The way I see it there isn't any issues with letting Johann do a full time study and us helping him, but next turn we should make sure he earns his keep by assigning him some appropriate work.
Should be doing that this turn, IMO. I was in favour of doing it last turn, too, fwiw.
 
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The way I see it there isn't any issues with letting Johann do a full time study and us helping him, but next turn we should make sure he earns his keep by assigning him some appropriate work.
I'd say that would depend on the results of this turn's investigation into skaven. If the results are good and promise tangible benefits for the hold, I'm not against making that his full-time job.
 
Well, if you want to keep Snake Juice from Johann because you don't trust him and therefore assign him a task utterly irrelevant to the project of relocating the Spiders, wait until Mathilde get's her private lab up before you start poking around with Snake Juice. In a semi-public lab. Which Johann has access to.
I don't get why people think SJ is a top secret thing.
 
I'm actually quite tempted by the idea of hiring the amber mages and Panoramia. Yes it'll eat up another action but it will give us another two actions to throw around at any problems Belegar sends our way and is actually a little more action efficient.
 
I don't get why people think SJ is a top secret thing.
Because we haven't really told anyone who'd know it as anything but "creepy wizard stuff" about it, and we don't know whether it's a revolutionary ultra valuable substance. Since it's still pretty secret, we might as well keep it secret until we know if it needs to stay that way.
 
I don't get why people think SJ is a top secret thing.
Because it is Mucking With Demons (tm). That, and when we discovered it we were vastly less capable of protecting it if some vampire decided it was the coolest shit ever, so we had to rely on secrecy. The second concern is much less of an issue right now, but the first still stands.

Personally, I'd keep it secret until we finish the preliminary analysis, and then, depending on the results, either publish the findings and bring more wizards to work on it, or file it under 'top secret' and continue the research alone.

We still have no idea what this thing does and how useful/dangerous it is.
I'm actually quite tempted by the idea of hiring the amber mages and Panoramia. Yes it'll eat up another action but it will give us another two actions to throw around at any problems Belegar sends our way and is actually a little more action efficient.
I still don't see why we just can't go to Altdorf and see if there are more magelings willing to work for us in k8p. I imagine the prospect of working in a lab in a dwarf hold is somewhat more attractive than joining a suicidal military expedition.

I want a bright, but I also wouldn't say no to a celestial.

Oh, and I'm pro amber empolyment, but I still think that PanPan is better off being gainfully employed by the halfling community.
 
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I don't get why people think SJ is a top secret thing.

No, it's isn't a matter of the existence of SJ as something as top-secret, if that's what you mean. It's the matter of researching SJ and probing it's properties in a secured, and private environment - which is probably something that should be done by default, if one is completely opposed to bringing anyone into the SJ project, especially Johann. It sounds kind of contradictory to go: Johann should be kept away from our SJ Project, and then proceed to vote for a plan that more or less researches SJ in a lab others can access. If one does not trust Johann with SJ Research, one should not carry out that research in a lab Johann can access - that's simple operational security.

I'm actually quite tempted by the idea of hiring the amber mages and Panoramia. Yes it'll eat up another action but it will give us another two actions to throw around at any problems Belegar sends our way and is actually a little more action efficient.

While hiring and firing is an option still open to us, it feels to me as if we are re-litigating the Fields of Gold vote debate once again, with that line of thought. That being said, I did note earlier on we don't have a Julia equivalent right now, and we probably could very much do with one, but we'd probably need to spend the AP to find one.



I still don't see why we just can't go to Altdorf and see if there are more magelings willing to work for us in k8p. I imagine the prospect of working in a lab in a dwarf hold is somewhat more attractive than joining a suicidal military expedition.

I want a bright, but I also wouldn't say no to a celestial.


If recruiting from the Colleges is open to us as an option, our next visit to the College for a period of study should also synchronize with a vote to recruit from the Colleges. But we'd probably need to be clear what we are looking for here - for me, top of the line is a Grey Journeymen our master can vouch for, who can serve as a Julia, and manage our internal-facing intelligence networks (Undumgi political stability, no cultist infiltration from the Borderlands, rumor mill from the outside world, conditions of trade networks, etc, etc), so we can focus on pursuing the magical threats from external forces hostile to Clan Angrund.
 
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If one does not trust Johann with SJ Research, one should not carry out that research in a lab Johann can access - that's simple operational security.
I can get behind that, but we would be doing research in our own shoddy lab (in the corner of our own living room), not in a communal one. I'd say we're fine opsec-wise.
 
If recruiting from the Colleges is open to us as an option, our next visit to the College for a period of study should also synchronize with a vote to recruit from the Colleges. But we'd probably need to be clear what we are looking for here - for me, top of the line is a Grey Journeymen our master can vouch for, who can serve as a Julia.
While I understand the benefits of a bonus grey wizard, I'm far too paranoid to ever allow one near us for a prolonged time while we are reading Liber Mortis.

In fact, I will fight tooth and nail against it.
 
Do you know what goes into producing gunpowder at scale?
Yes. Which is to say that the Empire can manage it considering how much powder they can chew up per battle. Expensive, but bot beyond the usage rate of elite units.

Its like preindustrial rifles. They were made and quite accurate.
They just weren't economical to use as more than pieces for elites or nobles.
In canon Brettonian merchants don't actually pay taxes. Brettonian law only considers producing stuff to be taxable, so only farmers (and probably craftsmen, but that's not directly stated) are taxed. As a work-around, merchants will instead give 'gifts' to their local lords, and occasionally quietly buy them back the next day if the lord needs cash.
...that sounds extremely ridiculous and I wish the Handrich followers Ranald's luck with that scam.
Isn't "expansive" meant to represent, like, ten books? That's not exactly excessive - the only reason it's so expensive is because it's pre-printing press so it's all scribed by hand.
Theres a bunch of cost factors:
-Paper was expensive to make. Parchment has to be hand scraped. Vellum has to be hand scraped with fine tools and fine raw materials. Rag paper was expensively made from recycled cloth or fabric plants(which is cheap until you consider how many shirts it'd take to make a hundred pages). Wood pulp paper had to be mechanically milled from wood scrap and bleached.

-If you were making less than a few dozen copies, it was going to be hand scribed as a skilled labor.

-if you were making hundreds of copies your throughput is limited by the number of hand etched printing plates you have, which each took a a skilled scribe much much longer than it takes to copy to paper.

-Sod diagrams and illustrations. You could draw dicks dancing along the border and nobody would notice anyway...
I wanna see what happens when we teach the spiders Reikspiel and then include them into Mathilde's book club.
The spiders we have are all one person. They mainly mate with themselves and need no romance.
If that's the case, then the underground romance novel trade of Karak Eight Peaks is dealing in units of value greater than bars of gold.

Which, I mean, it would be in-theme with the dwarves, but something tells me that that might be a bit unreasonable
Not at all! Thats why its a select group consisting of a princess, a priestess and a wizard doing much swapping.

To have a reading hobby at all requires either cheaply accessible literature or a high status
So basically, we want the Grey Journeyman equivalent of Julia of if Johann doesn't work out? Colored me sold in this scenario, if we can somehow acquire a competent Grey Journeywoman or man we can mentor, work with and who can assist us to manage the information gathering activities in Karak Eight Peaks and it's surrounding regions we plan on establishing to get badly needed eyes and ears down there for the Grey College. The more I think about it, one of the things we are badly missing here is another Julia, in our new role in Karak Eight Peaks.
Not so good as you'd think.
Ideally we want a minion for each Wind. Minions with overlapping Winds of magic will only be available for overlapping tasks.

Which left us with the present situation where our two Chamon minions are only usable for material research and writing stuff, difficult to use on Belegar's tasks!

A Grey Journeyman is relatively low value for the AP because they'd mostly be for easier jobs that don't warrant Mathilde herself showing up. Anything important they're eclipsed by her in person.

Better off hiring a Grey Pepetual or getting an actual apprentice
 
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