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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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A bad roll could easily lead to our entire library being destroyed, we're doing the research if you take the leading plan in the room with those books. Mathilde resonably suspects that snek juice can be weaponised, the simplest way to do that would be to make it explode.

NavySeel said:
Screw it I'm semi-willing to delay for one turn if we use the coin on it next turn.
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for what it's worth, I will push for the Snek juice next turn regardless of every other concern, to my mind we'll have all of the things needed for the setup.
 
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chocolote12 said:
Researching snake juice in your bedroom just means you get to have neat snake dreams at night. Win-win.
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Or die horribly. One of the two.

I think people are forgetting that magic is astonishingly dangerous in Warhammer, and anything connected with daemons even more so. We've been calling it snake juice for so long that people have forgotten that this is the blood of an eternally dying daemon that's suspended between life and death. It's very likely not our friend, given that even before it was imprisoned to die forever it stalked Mathilde to try to kill her for seven years.
 
I'm not voting for investigating Snake Juice this turn, but I have to say that a lot of the arguments about it being critical to have an incredible lab first seem disingenuous. Wouldn't it be just as fair to say that doing a preliminary study would let us know what tools we'll need when we do equip a dedicated lab?

Moreover, even before BoneyM clarified that retroactive rolls don't get bonuses, the "retroactive" argument was always incredible strange from a narrative perspective, and seemed to very strongly be based on trying to "game the system".
 
Redshirt Army said:
I'm not voting for investigating Snake Juice this turn, but I have to say that a lot of the arguments about it being critical to have an incredible lab first seem disingenuous. Wouldn't it be just as fair to say that doing a preliminary study would let us know what tools we'll need when we do equip a dedicated lab?

Moreover, even before BoneyM clarified that retroactive rolls don't get bonuses, the "retroactive" argument was always incredible strange from a narrative perspective, and seemed to very strongly be based on trying to "game the system".
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we're dealing with something that's rather unknown but keep in mind what is needed to make power stones. You have to fold the wind of magic over and over until it becomes a liquid as a preliminary step increasing the power density. We're dealing with something that has crazy high magical energy density. Something going wrong on a low roll could be an explosion of undifferentiated magic. Who the hell even knows how it would play out given the magical potential of all winds of magic being involved.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I'm not voting for investigating Snake Juice this turn, but I have to say that a lot of the arguments about it being critical to have an incredible lab first seem disingenuous. Wouldn't it be just as fair to say that doing a preliminary study would let us know what tools we'll need when we do equip a dedicated lab?

Moreover, even before BoneyM clarified that retroactive rolls don't get bonuses, the "retroactive" argument was always incredible strange from a narrative perspective, and seemed to very strongly be based on trying to "game the system".
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I do second this. This is the same as people assuming Math start performing sabotage due to 'poking' the skaven. Boney isn't a literal genie.
 
racnor said:
Why do you care so much about his feelings? The skaven project tech project promises great things for everyone with their name on it. Have him complete it fast and leave instead of having him analyze spiderwebs while we continue to mistrust him.
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Mostly I don't actually mistrust him? I don't trust him entirely, but him leaving fast isn't a benefit to me and more importantly there's no way that's happening. He isn't simply going to get one example, test it, and be satisfied. He wants to thoroughly investigate whether any of the incredibly juice technology the Skaven have if is any way applicable without the use of Warpstone. Like him or not, Johann is going to stick around in K8P for years at least, more than likely decades.

Literally the onyl aspect I care about his feelings in is in how they'll affect his work for us; if not being able to make poking at skaven tech his sole focus is going to turn him uncooperative, I want that to happen sooner rather than later so that we can get rid of him and cut him off from any resources we've accumulated. If he's not a team player, I don't want him around and I definitely don't want to help him in his research.
 
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CuttleFish2.0 said:
Mostly I don't actually mistrust him? I don't trust him entirely, but him leaving fast isn't a benefit to me and more importantly there's no way that's happening. He isn't simply going to get one example, test it, and be satisfied. He wants to thoroughly investigate whether any of the incredibly juice technology the Skaven have if is any way applicable without the use of Warpstone. Like him or not, Johann is going to stick around in K8P for years at least, more than likely decades.

Literally the onyl aspect I care about his feelings in is in how they'll affect his work for us; if not being able to make poking at skaven tech is going to turn him uncooperative, I want that to happen sooner rather than later so that we can get rid of him and cut him off from any resources we've accumulated. If he's not a team player, I don't want him around and I definitely don't want to help him in his research.
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I think the thread is vastly overblowing the consequences and importance of his deception. Yes, he didn't say that he was a magister. However, he faithfully worked for the good of the expedition, and he shared with us that he knew some very complex spells, even when it was a threat to his cover.

I really don't get why people think it was such a big deal.
 
I am slightly curious, @BoneyM. It has been said by one of the lads here that not letting Johann spend his full attention on Mors tech would be fine anyway because it would take only one action for him and he still have five extra actions anyway. But AFAIK, you never clarified how NPCs fares in their action economy, only that you're more a Bazaar-type QM with fudging if need be on parts and the above argument was just taking cues from Mathilde's action economy... which is different because she is the PC.

So I suppose the first question is, "To what extent do you simulate (important) NPCs action economies?" with the second question being, "With regards to mages under our control as the Court Wizard, how much time are we contracting them for?"
 
Kornet said:
I think the thread is vastly overblowing the consequences and importance of his deception. Yes, he didn't say that he was a magister. However, he faithfully worked for the good of the expedition, and he shared with us that he knew some very complex spells, even when it was a threat to his cover.

I really don't get why people think it was such a big deal.
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I'm in the same boat, though I do think he should have told us himself before we found out on our own if only because he knew we were a Grey Magister and doing so would have been the least stupid option. But like I said I don't particularly mistrust him, or want him gone.
 
Quest said:
I do second this. This is the same as people assuming Math start performing sabotage due to 'poking' the skaven. Boney isn't a literal genie.
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Honestly I'm vary of Mathilde performing sabotage because she always perform sabotage. We went to scout Karag Lhune and dismantled their defenses top to bottom, remember? If we go scouting and an opportunity arises to, say, blow up a Mors hero unit, thread would vote to do it in a heartbeat.
 
Here's the thing the big reason for the Dorf magical clean room isn't the mechanical bonus it will provide to the research, it's the safety and mishap mitigation.

We'll have an emergency purge button, so no magical explosion. We wont be working in the same room with the literal kings ransom in expensive books and if things do go wrong the issue will be isolated from the rest of the hold by the safety features of the room.
 
vsh said:
They've been discussed but people just don't agree on what the different sides do, and I personally don't understand how the Protector works. I.e. some people say that Protector side would be useless in those two turns we had because we didn't do any protecting. Others say Night Prowler side wouldn't help us in Mors clan holdings sortie because smell and it isn't really a city. Would it be a good idea to set coin to Night Prowler last turn, given that we did empower city scouting action anyway?
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Night Prowler requires you to pass as at least the equivalent of a face in the crowd. Doppelganger allows this for sight-based species, but for smell-based species it does nothing.

The Protector isn't complicated, it's just made complicated by people playing word games. If you have to stop and explain why the Protector would apply, it doesn't. Kill something that would have killed people. Directly prevent an imminent attack. End something that is directly responsible for making peoples lives worse.

Sib said:
@BoneyM, where will we do our snake juice research if it wins?
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In the lab that is set up in a corner of Mathilde's bedroom.

Vocalend said:
I am slightly curious, @BoneyM. It has been said by one of the lads here that not letting Johann spend his full attention on Mors tech would be fine anyway because it would take only one action for him and he still have five extra actions anyway. But AFAIK, you never clarified how NPCs fares in their action economy, only that you're more a Bazaar-type QM with fudging if need be on parts and the above argument was just taking cues from Mathilde's action economy... which is different because she is the PC.

So I suppose the first question is, "To what extent do you simulate (important) NPCs action economies?" with the second question being, "With regards to mages under our control as the Court Wizard, how much time are we contracting them for?"
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Don't ask to look behind the curtains. NPCs are simulated to the extent that is required at any given time.

The amount of time they spend on the jobs you give them depend on the jobs you give them. Something simple might take up a quarter of their time, something tricky more than half.
 
I'm going to recommend people who want to study the snake juice hold off for next turn so we can put the coin on it which isn't an option in the current snake juice plan.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I'm not voting for investigating Snake Juice this turn, but I have to say that a lot of the arguments about it being critical to have an incredible lab first seem disingenuous. Wouldn't it be just as fair to say that doing a preliminary study would let us know what tools we'll need when we do equip a dedicated lab?
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The main difference the lab will make is that then if we trigger the snake blood in the wrong way when doing that preliminary investigation, we have the flush all magic in case of emergency button. That's a big deal. We can't know what tools we'd need to interact with it better without interacting with it, and we have very little knowledge of how snake juice responds to attempts to interact with it.

That's the thing, we don't even know what we don't known. We're full of Rumsfeldian unknown unknowns here, so a precautionary approach makes sense. We're literally dealing with a daemon here, in a setting infamous for having magic that makes you blow up.
 
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Kornet said:
I think the thread is vastly overblowing the consequences and importance of his deception. Yes, he didn't say that he was a magister. However, he faithfully worked for the good of the expedition, and he shared with us that he knew some very complex spells, even when it was a threat to his cover.

I really don't get why people think it was such a big deal.
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The deception isn't important. It might have been if he wasn't vouched for by a Lord Magister of the Grey Order. But he is and we've already handled it bu getting him 'promoted'.

However he has been very unenthusiastic about this and he's now an official magister. We have little leverage on him that isn't abusing the power of our position. Getting some common ground between us crucial. We definitely don't want him to have any I'll will towards us and even in the worst circumstances we'll want to part ways amicably.

We also do want to figure out skaven tech because that'd be great for the empire and who knows? He might need someone to mass-produce those devices. We even might get our name on the papers.
vsh said:
Honestly I'm vary of Mathilde performing sabotage because she always perform sabotage. We went to scout Karag Lhune and dismantled their defenses top to bottom, remember? If we go scouting and an opportunity arises to, say, blow up a Mors hero unit, thread would vote to do it in a heartbeat.
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In this case the players won't have the chance to vote in between the action and change thier plans.
 
@veekie , core issue I, at least, have with Plan Citadel Focus: Johann is our employee, why are we letting him spend all of his time on his side project? Let him earn his pay and let us go poke Skaven togethe in his (and ours) free time.

(does it count as a work date?)
 
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