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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Omegahugger said:
Though if you want a more rational reason to teach the We how to read, one of the problems we have with them is that they don't quite get not-We's, right? They have trouble with species that don't communicate through thought and where individual bodies have their own agenda and wishes. Which, to be fair, is a rather hard concept to wrap your head around. It'd be kinda like if the individual cells in the human body had goals separate from "the good of the human".
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They do have the concept of other spider hiveminds though so there's a foundation that can be used to getting them to understand non-hivemind beings.

Horium said:
I just don't see the appeal of uplifting an amoral, questionably capable of empathy, hive-mind predator species of giant spiders.
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I'll admit I'm genuinely more than a bit surprised by this statement. Uplifting the spiders has so many benefits and hits so many traditional SV buttons that doing it seems pretty obviously appealing.
 
10ebbor10 said:
I'm not sure they actually are amoral. They agreed with not eating us without any fuzz. They seem to genuinly intent to be nice.
They're very different in mindset, but not bad.
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I think there was a definite amount of fuzz involving dwarfs repeatedly killing spiders until the spiders picked up on not trying to eat dwarfs.
 
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NuclearConsensus said:
As an aside, it would be nice if plan makers would include all the subvotes their plan covers, even if they're mostly just minor edits of other plans, at least for the initial vote. That way, people can easily check which plans have which options via the in-thread tally or the vote tally option in thread tools. Doing so would likely avoid a situation like Turn 20 Down with Clan Mors, which on the tally is just the plan name and nothing else.
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That's purely because they haven't named their plan the way the tally wants. Just scroll to the bottom of the tally and you'll be able to see the full, original, vote.
 
@veekie if you don't mind, could you explain your reasoning for the EIC portion of your plan, 'Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves'?

I don't see how its necessary, let alone more important than setting up our intelligence network inside the EIC.

Why do we need it?
There's no indication that individual EIC members are worse than the human traders dwarves are used to, and currently, dealing with - they don't go after cartels for the actions of a few, especially if the larger group acts to resolve the matter. Wilhelmina seems to have a firm hand over the organisation as a whole, and is a) not stupid enough to try screwing over a very large, important, and influential group, especially one known for being revenge-mad, b) knows that her largest shareholder, close friend, and exciser of corruption is heavily invested in K8P physically and mentally.

What does it actually do?
Ok, somehow that is important enough to be done, and urgent enough to be done before everything else. So we tell the EIC to be extraordinarily fair, therefore... any time an EIC member sees another EIC member going against that edict, they've got some more reason to try reporting it in, helping us to hear about it and get it resolved before it flares up into a huge deal.
Don't see how that really saves us any time or energy.

Why don't we instead..?
Form our own group of loyal members in the EIC who can tell us about all kinds of news and potential problems before they get worse. Unlike currently, where we've heard exactly nothing.
People who are actively employed and trained to find out what's going on in the EIC, in secret and by various factions within it - rather than just a potential reward for one aspect of dirty-dealing, available to those who overhear something or suffer enough qualms to turn on collaborators.
 
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Seventeen said:
That's purely because they haven't named their plan the way the tally wants. Just scroll to the bottom of the tally and you'll be able to see the full, original, vote.
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That's strange, but understandable. There're some other examples, like the various TNE versions, but for the most part the subvotes are showing up, so that's nice.
 
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Specifically, you need to start your plan's name with either "Plan " or "Plan:" for it to count a vote for the plan's name as a vote for the whole block.

Also, @primemountain: You need to indent your plan. The tally is just counting you as a bunch of individual line items.
 
@BoneyM, did Mathilde give the Torc of Fire to Francesco Caravello now that he is the leader of the Undugmi? Or has Mathilde held off on giving it to him?
 
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
This is more or less the only plan that has snakehuice in it, AND I WILL BE DAMNED IF I LET THAT BE DELAYED AGAIN!

If it turns out we need a better lab for it, we'll just take the option again! We'll take it as many times as it takes!

And I am willing to delay my children's Reikspiel classes for this!
 
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killfr3nzy said:
@veekie if you don't mind, could you explain your reasoning for the EIC portion of your plan, 'Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves'?

I don't see how its necessary, let alone more important than setting up our intelligence network inside the EIC.

Why do we need it?
There's no indication that individual EIC members are worse than the human traders dwarves are used to, and currently, dealing with - they don't go after cartels for the actions of a few, especially if the larger group acts to resolve the matter. Wilhelmina seems to have a firm hand over the organisation as a whole, and is a) not stupid enough to try screwing over a very large, important, and influential group, especially one known for being revenge-mad, b) knows that her largest shareholder, close friend, and exciser of corruption is heavily invested in K8P physically and mentally.

What does it actually do?
Ok, somehow that is important enough to be done, and urgent enough to be done before everything else. So we tell the EIC to be extraordinarily fair, therefore... any time an EIC member sees another EIC member going against that edict, they've got some more reason to try reporting it in, helping us to hear about it and get it resolved before it flares up into a huge deal.
Don't see how that really saves us any time or energy.

Why don't we instead..?
Form our own group of loyal members in the EIC who can tell us about all kinds of news and potential problems before they get worse. Unlike currently, where we've heard exactly nothing.
People who are actively employed and trained to find out what's going on in the EIC, in secret and by various factions within it - rather than just a potential reward for one aspect of dirty-dealing, available to those who overhear something or suffer enough qualms to turn on collaborators.
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As I understand it, we're basically deciding overall company policy and setting up a series of best practices for our employees when interacting with dwarf customers. It's like having a policy of "The customer is always right". We won't just be telling them what we want them to do, but be teaching them why and how we want them to do this. Hopefully there will be no grudge even without this, but this eliminates any chances of that and also makes our employees the kind of people dwarves want to deal with. Mathilde will be drawing on her own experience and basically teaching her employees what to do and what not to do. Dwarves have a very different culture and Mathilde has a unique insight on how to deal with that.
 
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[X] Allow him to spend all his time on his metalworking studies.
[X] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Moulder.
[X] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
[X] You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Go down there and see what you can acquire.
[X] Write a paper on your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
 
Quest said:
As I understand it, we're basically deciding overall company policy and setting up a series of best practices for our employees when interacting with dwarf customers. It's like having a policy of "The customer is always right". We won't just be telling them what we want them to do, but be teaching them why we want them to do this. Hopefully there will be no grudge even without this, but this eliminates any chances of that and also makes our employees the kind of people dwarves want to deal with. Mathilde will be drawing on her own experience and basically teaching her employees what to do and what not to do. Dwarves have a very different culture and Mathilde has a unique insight on how to deal with that.
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Okay, and... how is this in any way urgent? Like I said, humans and dwarves have been trading for thousands of years, quite successfully - hundreds are doing so in K8P right now.
How is this potential slight boost to dwarven trade more important than finding out if the company that the College and dwarves believe us to be responsible for is actually on the up and up? Than moving one step closer to insuring that it is? Than being able to use it as a spy network?
 
killfr3nzy said:
Okay, and... how is this in any way urgent? Like I said, humans and dwarves have been trading for thousands of years, quite successfully - hundreds are doing so in K8P right now.
How is this potential slight boost to dwarven trade more important than finding out if the company that the College and dwarves believe us to be responsible for is actually on the up and up? Than moving one step closer to insuring that it is? Than being able to use it as a spy network?
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Dwarves and humans have also gone to war a number of times. Most notably there's a time where the Dwarves were comissioned to build a fortress for an elector count. They were stiffed by literally two pennies they destroyed the fortress over it.

Scrupulous honesty when dealing with the dwarves is incredibly important.
 
killfr3nzy said:
Okay, and... how is this in any way urgent? Like I said, humans and dwarves have been trading for thousands of years, quite successfully - hundreds are doing so in K8P right now.
How is this potential slight boost to dwarven trade more important than finding out if the company that the College and dwarves believe us to be responsible for is actually on the up and up? Than moving one step closer to insuring that it is? Than being able to use it as a spy network?
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This is how we ensure it's on the up and up. We don't exactly need to spy on a company we own. We create a set of company policies that together set the company on the course we want. Just by working with the company and setting policy, we'll be ensuring it works the way we want it to. We've just decided that it's best to first focus on dwarf/human interaction.

Also this is not just a slight boost. Dwarven culture and human culture has a lot of points which can clash. There have wars for a quite a few small slights in those thousand years.
 
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