Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Okay I can understand that. But what exactly is going to stop gods from smiting us for using their Lore without permission. Like I know Ranald should be cool with it since we are a devout worshiper of his and he'd probably love that we figured out such a loop hole to use his Lore and retain our Magic.

But it sounds like people don't want to stick with only Ranald's lore which seems to be the most compatible with Ulgu and us but try and manipulate other Divine Lores as well.

Wouldn't trying to manipulate multiple Divine Lores not cause those Gods to smite us or fuck us up for attempting it?
I don't recall many if anyone suggesting manipulating the Divine Lores of anyone but Best God, though there has been some support for figuring out how to manipulate both Snake Juice and Dhar with Ulgu which might be what you're thinking of.

Also, that's not an argument against picking up Avatar, its an argument against being an absolute moron and using other God's Lores, thus other God's Powers, without their permission. Also, I'm not entirely sure this is possible, as Ranald would have to give us the power for us to manipulate it with Ulgu.
 
[X] Plan 2 wizards
-[X] Recruit Panoramia
-[X] Recruit Maximilian

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
 
[ ] Donate it to the Winter Wolves of Ulrikadrin.

They...worship a god of winter, distrust magical assistance, and are a high morale group of Knights. They don't need it.
Didn't the Ulricans recently accept a bunch of help from two Beast wizards?

[ ] Wolf Familiar > Winter Wolf Familiar: Turns out Wolf is a late bloomer. Wolf will grow large enough to ride upon.
-Rarity: Uncommon. I THINK the trigger is just feeding Wolf lots.
Rarity is Unique. We're getting this now because Wolf is still a puppy and so could theoretically still grow up large. After a turn or two, he won't be a puppy any more, and his species will be solidly locked in as a common wolf rather than a winter wolf.

-Utility: Windreader has consistently been very useful in fluff, despite limited mechanical benefits. Being able to see and understand emotions should also help Mathilde with diplomacy a bit, on top of getting better data off studying magic.
If it helped with diplomacy I reckon it would grant extra Diplomacy, but it doesn't.
 
Sure, more minions friends sounds good.

[X] Plan recruit everyone!
-[X] Recruit Esbern and Seija
-[x] Recruit Panoramia
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
-[X] Recruit Johann

On the other hand... I don't want three discretionary actions per turn.
[x] Leave the EIC alone.

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.

[X] Plan Fields of Gold
 
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Half talked myself out of voting for Big Wolf option, if only because I was struck by a Very Good mental image. Given Mathilde just kind of sinks her body into the shadow steed to ride comfortably, I'm now imagining travel sized Wolf just kind of jammed bodily through the side of the horse, perpetual dog head out of a car window bliss in action. Giant Wolf just wouldn't work for that! :V
 
We have no idea, and the Avatar trait leading to +Theurgy route is the thread's own supposition. Its supposition that makes sense based on the facts, but it is what it is.

I certainly have no idea if Avatar will lead to Theurgy. As to if we need it to poke the concept and find out if its possible to do Theurgy? No we don't need Avatar because of Boney's comment here.

Which came up long before this vote existed.

Thank you for answering my questions I know it can be hard remembering and finding specific quotes not part of an update.

While I can better understand peoples choice to vote for Avatar I still don't feel like taking it due to it being a mystery option and so a chance existing it could be both a positive and negative trait.

I would prefer to take the traits we know to be only postive instead of one with any potential negatives, especially if we can learn Theurgy without needing the trait.
 
I'd like to note that these journeymanlings are notbthe only ones, you know. We can get more and different journeymanlings from Alrdorf.

So arguments against odd number of journeymanlings chosen are a bit off the point.
 
I'd like to note that these journeymanlings are notbthe only ones, you know. We can get more and different journeymanlings from Alrdorf.

So arguments against odd number of journeymanlings chosen are a bit off the point.
I'd imagine we'd trade them off as and when it happens.
"See you, Panoramia, nice job with the East Valley fields, good luck on your Magister exam!"

And in the meantime, 1. We're not wasting actions and 2. we don't have to spend College Favour to bring journeymen out here.
 
[X] Plan Fields of Gold

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
[X] Wolf Familiar > Winter Wolf Familiar: Turns out Wolf is a late bloomer. Wolf will grow large enough to ride upon.
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Donate it to the Winter Wolves of Ulrikadrin.
 
[X] Plan 2 wizards
-[X] Recruit Panoramia
-[X] Recruit Maximilian

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
 
[X] Leave the EIC alone
Wilhelmina's the least bad person to fill the power vacuum Roswita has left in Western Stirland.
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
 
@BoneyM Can we deliberately, disastrously fail at drawing on other winds or Dhar directly? In order for the resulting mess to smack on our belt to be conjuring small amounts of flame at-will?
 
@BoneyM Can we deliberately, disastrously fail at drawing on other winds or Dhar directly? In order for the resulting mess to smack on our belt for conjuring small amounts of flame at-will?

Magic undergoing rapid curdling leads to all sorts of other bad things happening, not just Dhar. You'd be basically eating a deliberate miscast in the hopes of catching someone else in the blast radius.
 
Damn, Max + Pan is gaining a lot of traction.
Also, I'm not entirely sure this is possible, as Ranald would have to give us the power for us to manipulate it with Ulgu.
It likely wouldn't have been a problem before, and it certainly isn't one now, after we've apparently straight up multiplied his power.

The issue was always one of being unable to maintain two intense and radically different mindsets. That's why Theurgy/Sorcery was made, in fact: use the thing you know in order to manipulate the other thing, instead of trying to cram both in your head.
I would prefer to take the traits we know to be only postive instead of one with any potential negatives, especially if we can learn Theurgy without needing the trait
We most likely can't. For one, Theurgy isn't even what we want, we want the opposite of it.
 
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I'd imagine we'd trade them off as and when it happens.
"See you, Panoramia, nice job with the East Valley fields, good luck on your Magister exam!"

And in the meantime, 1. We're not wasting actions and 2. we don't have to spend College Favour to bring journeymen out here.
But we can get differently specialised ones right away, though?

I mean, there is not that much ghur work in our setting, while could use aqsy, azur or, hell, even hysh.
 
Magic undergoing rapid curdling leads to all sorts of other bad things happening, not just Dhar. You'd be basically eating a deliberate miscast in the hopes of catching someone else in the blast radius.

Ah, pity. I was essentially hoping to cheese out the possession of a small lighter equivalent. Appreciate the prompt response.
 
[X] Plan 2 wizards
-[X] Recruit Panoramia
-[X] Recruit Maximilian

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

Edit: Got rid of avatar as upon reflection I am as a general rule wary of being too close to the gods of this setting to take something with this flavor text and an unclear mechanical effect. This is not to say that I distrust Ranald, just that I am hesitant to take this particular gamble on such little info as to the risk reward balance, when there are other straightforward and purely beneficial options available.
 
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Damn, Max + Pan is gaining a lot of traction.

It likely wouldn't have been a problem before, and it certainly isn't one now, after we've apparently straight up multiplied his power.

The issue was always one of being unable to maintain two intense and radically different mindsets. That's why Theurgy/Sorcery was made, in fact: use the thing you know in order to manipulate the other thing, instead of trying to cram both in your head.

We most likely can't. For one, Theurgy isn't even what we want, we want the opposite of it.
Mmnn in my mind I basically treat it as a synonym with Sorcery, when they discuss the more fundamental process of what you lay out here: "Use what you know to manipulate the other thing".
 
Their was also a chance for Ranald to die during his confrontation with Mork.
Just because he rolled well doesn't mean we should go looking for more opportunities for him to roll the dice and risk dying or powering up.

Counter point: I totally think we should. He's a Prometheus type, and one I trust- It's about the legend of how he got his power in the first place. Stolen from the gods. (Specifically Shallya?) And it was a con. (Deceiver) Now here, a gamble. (Gambler) There are two more faces he has- I think we need to think about how to steal power from a god via stealth, (Night Prowler) and how to gain power as a god from protecting.

The last of which I think we can get from weaving his worship into the humans of the area, and if we can make it stick via an intervention as his avatar against, say, Black Crag, then we might be able to ritually use that to elevate the Magician as the fifth face.

So...

The idea is that if the money went from King Belegar's treasury to you and then straight back into Dwarven pockets, then it's just a part of your relationship with the Dwarves rather than a Grey Order Magister having their noble ideals tainted with filthy lucre.

Ok. Here's what I think. Best case steward in our absence from the position is the dwarfmaid who is going to build out their artisinal industry, because it lets the Karak support things like building out drakeguns. Which we can spend the money and the favor to have expert level teachers brought in to do. We can also expand our engineering guild and aircorp faster that way, and with underground so treacherous we really need to dominate the sky and surface.

We should, ethically, spend our money relatively quickly within the Karak. So, tower, tavern, lab, setting up for a future with more wizards here as first priorities. Supporting the way we spend our dwarf favor second.

Lower? Some options:
- spend to get the halflings equiped with a bit more infrastructure, in support of Pan's projects and the self-sufficiency of the Karag.
- spend to bring in trainers for the umdagni. Reinforces our 'we are watching out for you' role with them, keeps a debt of gratitude and shadow authority alive.
- pay for dwarves to go help build/train the gun factory for the EIC. As they have a monopoly supply contract with the army of stirland, doing this is directly spending our gold on dwarves to help the empire. What the bursar wants to see- especially if we lean on the EIC to lower the prices/remove the monopoly clause in exchange for one making any other bid known to us and allowing the EIC to offer to match. De facto monopoly, keeps competition alive and prevents price-gouging.
- pay for building out facilities in Karag Nar. Keeps the money going right back to the dwarves as they try and get local production off the ground, and gives them a place to train apprentices before so the journeymen can work on craft for dwarves.
- pay for better gear for the umdagni. They have weapons, so probably armor, proper spyglasses and signals, other stuff? Will be useful for their recruiting and our survival.
- pay for a priest for another shrine. Ideally Shallya. Preferably one who can actually heal.. ...and renald willing, our age and male and cool and interested and easy on the eyes. A priest of Shallya with an avatar of Renald is such a goddamn good ship I am shipping it already.


oh, if that's what you mean then that is fine, that sounds pretty cool actually. I am totally cool with Sigmar noticing our disdain for him.

This is also a pretty cool ship. God of Heroes and the distainful beauty who he moves mountains to win over.

To say nothing of the fact you think Ranald is just going to let shit happen when we are wearing a divine artifact of his.

While I agree with you on points, please maybe edit your post to have chiller language?

I wonder, who our co-councilors are going to be?

I really hope the Sky-Thane takes the external spymaster slot, he seems both a great fit and an interesting character - it's not every day you get to witness the dwarf version of teenage rebellion.

Same. Let's set up some posterboys for dwarf empire resurgent, huh? Belegar, the Sky-Thane, Ulthric, maybe the dwarf with the twins? I think we can help change the world with them, again.

Plus it synergizes well with him leading forces and the presumed artisinal economey focus that is good for supporting the engineers.

Also question for you @BoneyM on something funny I noticed. Would having Marksman and Assassin mean we have a +70 to a roll to assassinate with a firearm?

Please let's all bother the QM less? There are a lot of people in the thread and only one Boney.

By the way, it looks like Plan 2 Wizards (Pan+Max) is still up by around 13-14 over Fields of Gold (Johan+Max).

Anybody got reasoning for the 2 Wizards plan?
Is it just because Pan's cuter?
What would we have her do that's more important than the Eastern Valley growing plan?
Buying her rarer plants to try from Barak Varr? Infinite black lotus? Shrine maiden, using Ferment to bolster our tavern?

Potions and poisons to support the forces in the pass, another perspective and wind for research, because she is cool and likes us and we need friends.

Largely because she is doing magic in the peaks and we have an interest in keeping an eye on that, in our role.

I agree that she'll be sticking around and the gold wizards are important to have, so I'm pretty much approval voting for the ones that don't have is trying to keep the ambers.

Also I don't think a hypothetical hole will act us a beacon. I am afraid that through her actions Mathilde will gain the attention of other gods who will notice this hole and try to Mark or claim Mathilde as their own which will lead to us having to fight them off or get Ranald to help us which I think is just too much trouble to take this trait.

I honestly want the attention of the Gods. I want to have endgame be wars where gods have interests and power to break cities is being thrown around, and being an agent of one of the gods let's us play at that level without Mathilde having to have spent every action grinding killiness.

I think it gives more narrative room for melodramatic clashes like Kragg's barrage.
 
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