Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Boney]

The ONE place you can maybe get away with being a devout Verenan and Ranaldite is when you're really heavy on the protector, ideally in a genuinely really unjust polity. That's actually a notable thing, that the Verenans are like the one significant group that isn't institutionally devoted to stamping down Ranald The Protector cults despite their opposition to Literally All The Others.

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Daredevil could probably manage it.

@Boney could we introduce the Librarian-We to the Cult of Verena? Y'know, add that extra divine oomph to the place.

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There have been a number of opportunities to add divine oomph to the library that were passed by in favour of developing it in other directions. You might be able to work something out if you really tried, but it wouldn't just be from introducing your librarian to one facet of the notably decentralized Cult.

Actually, does Verena allow for non-human members?

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It hasn't really come up in any significant way. The Elves have Hoeth, the Dwarves Grungni, and the Halflings Quinsberry, and the general understanding is that everyone's on good terms, the Cults will cooperate wherever overlap happens, and that nobody's trying to muscle in on each others' territory.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

It hasn't really come up in any significant way. The Elves have Hoeth, the Dwarves Grungni, and the Halflings Quinsberry, and the general understanding is that everyone's on good terms, the Cults will cooperate wherever overlap happens, and that nobody's trying to muscle in on each others' territory.

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Unlike other gods, scholar gods avoid stamping each other out.

They need someone who will pretend to listen to their latest obsession in return for them pretending to listen to theirs.

 

[BurnNote]

It hasn't really come up in any significant way. The Elves have Hoeth, the Dwarves Grungni, and the Halflings Quinsberry, and the general understanding is that everyone's on good terms, the Cults will cooperate wherever overlap happens, and that nobody's trying to muscle in on each others' territory.

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Huh, I would've guessed Morgrim as the closest fit for general knowledge god, but more like every God is one for their particular field, since they're all crafting gods, with the possible exceptions of Grimnir and Gazul.

 

[Boney]

Huh, I would've guessed Morgrim as the closest fit for general knowledge god, but more like every God is one for their particular field, since they're all crafting gods, with the possible exceptions of Grimnir and Gazul.

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According to legend, Grungni is the one that first taught the Dwarves how to dig tunnels, mine ore, smelt it into metal, and shape metal into tools. Other Ancestor Gods build further on their specialties but Grungni is the one that first showed them the basics.

 

[Retrueno]

Out of curiosity, would it be possible to study the Phoenix Crown under the reason that K8P reconnected to the Waystone Network after the Crown was completed so maybe it's possible the Phoenix Crown has a similar function or is some kind of control mechanism in some way?


Also is it possible to have a Runesmith carve a rune into our Red Rider? I feel like it should be, similar to how Bok has runes in its soul but I am not sure

 

[pucflek]

Also is it possible to have a Runesmith carve a rune into our Red Rider? I feel like it should be, similar to how Bok has runes in its soul but I am not sure

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Presumably possible but rather extremely foolhardy. Carving runes into "souls" is bound to be difficult, radical as hell and could end in all sorts of disasters, which makes it all the worse when there isn´t really a good answer for "why would you?".

 

[Boney]

Out of curiosity, would it be possible to study the Phoenix Crown under the reason that K8P reconnected to the Waystone Network after the Crown was completed so maybe it's possible the Phoenix Crown has a similar function or is some kind of control mechanism in some way?

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No. Even if Mathilde had that information it would be a very flimsy argument.

Also is it possible to have a Runesmith carve a rune into our Red Rider? I feel like it should be, similar to how Bok has runes in its soul but I am not sure

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No living Runesmith has the slightest clue how that was done, and Elementals and Apparitions are completely different entities. Also, Jurassic Park clause: if you make security measures around what you know about something and then dramatically change that thing, you deserve exactly what you're about to get.

 

[Aule]

Dedicated to Aule and my undying annoyance over getting the idea planted into my head and having to spend an hour writing this "parody song with swtiched lyrics" cliche. Again.

(Gretel)
There! Right There!
Look at those plaits, that tinted skin
Look at the killer shape she's in
Look at that stylishly pointy hat
Oh please she's gay, totally gay

(Cadaeth)
I'm not about to celebrate
Every trait could indicate the totally straight associate.
This gal's not gay, I say not gay

(All)
That is the dragon in the room
Well, is it bigoted to assume
that a woman with a huge sword
is automatically magically fay?

(Cadaeth)
But look at her coiffed and crispy locks

(Gretel)
Look at her wide and muscular arms

(Cadaeth)
There's the eternal paradox
Look what we're seeing

(Gretel)
What are we seeing?

(Cadaeth)
Is she gay?

(Gretel)
Of course she's gay

(Cadaeth)
Or Ranaldian?

(All)
ohhhhhh
Gay or Ranaldian?
It is hard to guarantee
Is she gay or Ranaldian?

(Heidi)
Well, don't you look at me

(Roswita)
You see they bring their lads up different
Behind the Colleges' locked doors
They learn peculiar things

(All)
With wooden staves and shapeless robes!
Gay or a night prowler?
The answer could take years!
They will say things like "Meine Liebe"
while they stab you in both sides!

(Gretel)
Oh please!

(All)
Gay or Ranaldian?
So many shades of Gray

(Max)
Depending on the time of day
Bretonnians go either way

(All)
Is she gay or Ranaldian?
or-

(Gretel)
There! Right There!
Look at that smug and knowing smirk
Seen it on every Gray at work
That is a metro-hetro jerk
That gal's not gay, I say no way

(All)
That is the dragon in the room
Well is it bigoted to presume
that an SV protagonist

(Gretel)
Is automatically, radically

(Cadaeth)
Ironically, chronically

(Cython)
Scurtinly, certainly

(Roswita)
Genetically, netically

(All)
Gay!
Officially Gay!
Officially Gay, Gay, Gay, Gay!

Dammit

Gay or Ranaldian?

(Cadaeth)
So shifty and two-faced

(All)
Is she gay or Ranaldian?

(Cadaeth)
Let's ask the Karak Vlag!

(Roswita)
But they bring their lads up different there
It's culturally diverse
It's not a magic curse

(All)
If she wears a suit or wields a sword
Gay or just exotic?
I still can't crack the code

(Max)
Yet her shadow is so weird
but her shoes are steely toed!

(All)
Huh
Gay or Ranaldian?
So many shades of Gray

(Egrimm)
But if she turns out straight
I have a tome with eldritch lore

(All)
Is she gay or Ranaldian?
Gay or Ranaldian?
Gay or Rana-

(Johann)
Wait a minute!
Give me a chance to crack this gal
I have an idea I'd like to try

(Cadaeth)
The floor is yours

(Johann)
So Ms. Weber...
This alleged project with Waystones
has been going on for...?

(Mathilde)
4 years

(Johann)
And your first name again is...?

(Mathilde)
Mathilde

(Johann)
And your girlfriend's name is...?

(Mathilde)
Panoramia

*Everyone waits for three seconds, but Mathilde doesn't retract her statement and doesn't seem to quite understand what the fuss is about.*

Thus the song ends, without everyone realizing that Mathilde is both gay and Ranaldian.

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This is great!

Undead armies just being able to haul themselves indefinitely unless otherwise stated is a massively overlooked and horrifying capability of the tireless dead.

It's not just about being able to go the standard human speed indefinitely -- marching constantly is decent -- but about not having to stop to eat or set up camp or rest your feet. It's three times faster than the worst march you could imagine, indefinitely, at no extra cost and with no extra weakness, and they're ready to a fight a 100% casualties battle at the end of it.

Like, in Europe, 200 miles can usually put you solidly in another country, you know? That's only a very spooky day, at the average human speed. An angry necromancer can get from Spain to Russia in a fortnight. That's practically teleportation to a General.

Death marches have nothing on S-K-E-L-E-T-O-N marches.

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On one hand, this is probably how Tomb Kings can just show up to sack Altdorf without the rest of the Empire interfering.

On the other hand, Vampire Counts notably did not do that.

Now this is pure guesswork, but necromancer needs to maintain bindings on undead if he wants to keep them under control, and perhaps ordering them on too swift a march degrades that.

Actual battles do not last very long compared to transporting.

 

[K von Carstein]

This is great!



On one hand, this is probably how Tomb Kings can just show up to sack Altdorf without the rest of the Empire interfering.

On the other hand, Vampire Counts notably did not do that.

Now this is pure guesswork, but necromancer needs to maintain bindings on undead if he wants to keep them under control, and perhaps ordering them on too swift a march degrades that.

Actual battles do not last very long compared to transporting.

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The Tomb Kings' soldiers have their souls put back into their dead bones, while the undead animated by necromancy don't have their soul put back into their bodies. It could explain why Tomb Kings have less trouble animating their troops long enough to reach other continents.

 

[Mopman43]

The Tomb Kings' soldiers have their souls put back into their dead bones, while the undead animated by necromancy don't have their soul put back into their bodies. It could explain why Tomb Kings have less trouble animating their troops long enough to reach other continents.

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Though there are exceptions on that-basic zombies are soulless husks, but Skeleton Warriors are explicitly the ancient dead of unhallowed battlefields that have just a sliver of their original soul remaining.

And Wights (Wight Kings, Grave Guard, Black Knights) of course have more-or-less the whole soul, having gone through pretty much the same process as, say, Tomb Guard.

It's pretty consistent that, the more of the original soul remaining, the more dangerous the Undead.

 

[Alratan]

The Tomb Kings' soldiers have their souls put back into their dead bones, while the undead animated by necromancy don't have their soul put back into their bodies. It could explain why Tomb Kings have less trouble animating their troops long enough to reach other continents.

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If Liber Mortis can be trusted, creating all undead requires having at least a piece of the soul of the dead person to bind back to a body to control it.

The more of the soul the necromancer has available, the higher functioning the resulting undead creature will be, but even the most basic undead have some of their soul bound to their corpse.

 

[LilyWitch]

Though there are exceptions on that-basic zombies are soulless husks, but Skeleton Warriors are explicitly the ancient dead of unhallowed battlefields that have just a sliver of their original soul remaining.

And Wights (Wight Kings, Grave Guard, Black Knights) of course have more-or-less the whole soul, having gone through pretty much the same process as, say, Tomb Guard.

It's pretty consistent that, the more of the original soul remaining, the more dangerous the Undead.

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Yep. Up to vampires, mummies and liches who have their whole soul preserved. Though we see that even with liches, at least the first of them in Nagash, repeated bodily damage and regeneration can damage the soul and reduce their power. Which is why Vampires are better and Neferata is a better necromancer thasn Nagash in this TED talk i will...

 

[chocolote12]

On one hand, this is probably how Tomb Kings can just show up to sack Altdorf without the rest of the Empire interfering.

On the other hand, Vampire Counts notably did not do that.

Now this is pure guesswork, but necromancer needs to maintain bindings on undead if he wants to keep them under control, and perhaps ordering them on too swift a march degrades that.

Actual battles do not last very long compared to transporting.

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Vampires are weak to a few things like running water (i.e every water feature wider than a yard) and sunlight (about half of every day) that make geography a lot more painful to contend with.

Yep. Up to vampires, mummies and liches who have their whole soul preserved. Though we see that even with liches, at least the first of them in Nagash, repeated bodily damage and regeneration can damage the soul and reduce their power. Which is why Vampires are better and Neferata is a better necromancer thasn Nagash in this TED talk i will...

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They're kind of easy to curse, though.

 

[Mopman43]

If Liber Mortis can be trusted, creating all undead requires having at least a piece of the soul of the dead person to bind back to a body to control it.

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I believe you mean the Liber Necris.

Do you know what page?

 

[K von Carstein]

Vampires are weak to a few things like running water (i.e every water feature wider than a yard) and sunlight (about half of every day) that make geography a lot more painful to contend with.

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Not all vampires have all of the traditional weaknesses. Most are vulnerable to sunlight, true, but there's some who aren't. I'm not sure how prevalent the weakness to running water is, or how it affects term. If they can't cross of their own volition, having their servant carry them across is an easy solution.

 

[Alratan]

They're kind of easy to curse, though.

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Although Neferata's Elixir of Life 2.0 is clearly significantly superior feature and ease of use and deployment wise compared to Nagash's original, she let herself down by not screening the design team well enough and letting a malicious actor sneak a back door into the design.

I believe you mean the Liber Necris.

Do you know what page?

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Sorry, yes, Liber Necris. Page 24 is explains how the Nehekharans defined the elements of the soul, and page 60 onwards explains which of those components each type of undead has.

A zombie, the simplest form of undead, just requires some of a person's Sekhem, the animating energy of their soul, and more complicated forms require incrementally more and more different kinds of parts of the soul.

 

[Mopman43]

Not all vampires have all of the traditional weaknesses. Most are vulnerable to sunlight, true, but there's some who aren't. I'm not sure how prevalent the weakness to running water is, or how it affects term. If they can't cross of their own volition, having their servant carry them across is an easy solution.

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At least in Night's Dark Masters, mechanically it is the physical exposure to running water that hurts Vampires with this weakness (stated to be as much as sunlight hurts those with that weakness)

They can cross over a bridge or by boat, but if they fall into the water they'll suffer.

 

[Andres]

Worshipping multiple or indeed entire Pantheon of gods is entirely normal and acceptable, and there has indeed even been a vote for Mathilde to do so, some odd five years ago.

We could probably still do it, but its bound to make Ranald pretty disappointed, and it feels like it would be OOC for Mathilde we have made, at this point.

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I think Ranald would only be disappointed if we picked another god over him. If we're in our library and we pray to Verena for help with understanding some academic issue, I don't think Ranald would mind, since we wouldn't be praying to him in that context anyway. What I think he would be slighted by is if we prayed to Ulric for help in a fight, because we know Ranald has our back.

As for whether it's in-character, I think it could be. Would taking up Verena worship have fit for Mathilde while she was sneaking her way into skaven tunnels or tangling with zombies? Not really. But Mathilde right now has been lavishing gold and favours untold on a library for years, and preserved the Liber Mortis and Vlad's notes instead of consigning them to flame. There's room in her life for more than one god, and whether we choose for her to take up Verena's worship or to decide against it, either outcome would be in-character for present-day Mathilde.

Personally, I'd be interested in going on a date of sorts. Test the waters a bit by talking to a priest or something, then decide whether to commit.

 

[pucflek]

I personally think the relationship loses something on both sides if that happens. Mathilde already interacts with gods in more involved fashion because she has the Avatar trait, and i genuinely don´t think splitting her more ways with actual worship is good. I don´t think it would be a catastrophe or anything but i think it would lead to a certain... thinning? Is that a word? Of what we currently have.

So its hard pass for me. Its not like we need another god. As you said, we made a goddamn library, with no involvement of Verenans. Almost the exact opposite, really. So what, exactly, do we need her for.

 

[Andres]

I personally think the relationship loses something on both sides if that happens. Mathilde already interacts with gods in more involved fashion because she has the Avatar trait, and i genuinely don´t think splitting her more ways is good. I don´t think it would be a catastrophe or anything but i think it would lead to a certain... thinning? Is that a word? Of what we currently have.

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Yes this quest really wouldn't be the same if Mathilde started dividing her loyalties.

So what, exactly, do we need her for.

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Not about need, just about relationships. Verena might be cool, and if she is, could be already to hang out with her a bit. Like making a new friend. Just a friend though, not looking for another significant higher-up.

 

[pucflek]

Yes this quest really wouldn't be the same if Mathilde started dividing her loyalties.

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Ranald being the one and only god for her has been the thing that has been consistent for her from the very start and that has allowed her to rise to the relationship that she has with Him.

She´s got a decent shot at being a Venerated Soul. I don´t think thats something that would´ve come up if we divided our piety more ways.

Just a friend though, not looking for another significant higher-up.

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The fact that Mathilde has the relationship with her god that she has is, im pretty sure, both highly irregular and a feature of Ranald being Ranald. I kind of really doubt its something you could replicate with another god, especially when they tend to be fairly jealous of their toys.

 

[Andres]

The fact that Mathilde has the relationship with her god that she has is, im pretty sure, both highly irregular and a feature of Ranald being Ranald. I kind of really doubt its something you could replicate with another god, especially when they tend to be fairly jealous of their toys.

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Again, not looking for something special with another god, just testing the waters to see if it'd be worth sending the occasional prayer Verena's way. I need you to understand that there is more to faith in Warhammer than talking to deities and summoning magic spells from them. It can be smaller than that.

 

[pucflek]

Again, not looking for something special with another god, just testing the waters to see if it'd be worth sending the occasional prayer Verena's way. I need you to understand that there is more to faith in Warhammer than talking to deities and summoning magic spells from them. It can be smaller than that.

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I am not sure how you don´t diminish that something special with the one god you have by picking up another on the side.

You did mention "well she would not be praying for success in research to him" but we already set Gambler for lucky breaks. I am just really not a fan of this or any other idea that involves becoming even a minor worshipper of another god, when the one we have pays as much attention to us as he does presumably because of our sheer devotion.

 

[Alliterate]

To my mind, Mathilde taking up traditional modes of worship after nearly three decades of informal relationship with Ranald would be highly out of character. So exploring any relationship with another God seems particularly implausible, as expecting any other God to condone the same familiar relationship she has with her Oldest Friend is vanishingly unlikely. This is in addition to the very real risk of damaging that unique relationship.

 

[Andres]

I am not sure how you don´t diminish that something special with the one god you have by picking up another on the side.

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Ranald is Mathilde's ride or die best friend and vice-versa, but that doesn't mean either can't have other friends. Ranald has Heidi and every single other one of his worshippers, and Mathilde could have Thursday book club with Verena.