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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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hmmm... I dislike the ambiguity in the Avatar trait. Other than that though, I like all of these traits a lot.
 
das_slash said:
We also got posseses by freaking Mork, the options isnt "Avatar of Ranald", it's not purely negative but dont think for a second its pure positive either.
It's very nice that it excludes the chaos gods, but there are lots of other beings out there that will be happy to use us for their own means.
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You're taking small slivers of the total context to reach this bad conclusion of yours. Instead, look at the context the context in its entirety. The event that got us the trait was a total, major success for Mathilde and Ranald, with any connection between Mathilde and Mork severed or stolen; the nat 100 from Gunnars confirmed that there was "no risk of relapse."

Every single one of the other traits that Avatar is listed with is a wholly positive trait. Avatar was gained from fully succeeding in a major way with a nat 100 confirming that there'd be no risk of falling under Mork possession again. The Chaos Gods had nothing to do with what happened in Karag Nar, yet Avatar gives protection against them regardless, so it's reasonable to think it'd provide protection against other entities rather than vulnerability. It's unreasonable to think of Avatar as anything other than a wholly positive trait.
 
[X] Plan recruit everyone!
-[X] Recruit Esbern and Seija
-[X] Recruit Panoramia
-[X] Recruit Maximilian
-[X] Recruit Johann

[X] Plan Role Model for the Younglings
-[x] Recruit Esbern and Seija
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
-[x] Recruit Panoramia

I want to keep as many diferent winds around as we can to increase our flexibility.


[X] Take an active hand in the EIC


[ ] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
This mistery box is very shiny, it could be a boat, it could also not be, and I want so much other stuf

[ ] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
This would be so nice, but we have better things and we are likely to gain this if we keep enought jouneymanlings arounds.

[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.

This is one of the big one, yes I want it and want yeterday, this is way to good.


[X] Wolf Familiar > Winter Wolf Familiar: Turns out Wolf is a late bloomer. Wolf will grow large enough to ride upon.
Why must this be one of our traits I would like this so much.

[X] Brave > Daredevil: Runic protection, magical protection, magical healing... why are people scared of combat again? +2 Martial, immune to fear/terror effects.
Being straig up imune to fear fells to much like Mathilde for me to not vote for this.


[X] Bureaucrat + Practical > Warrior of Paperwork: Scholarship is just a specific form of paperwork. You can live with it. Combines the two traits, +2 Learning, remove penalty to writing papers yourself.

With how many papers we are likely to be writing over the years being free of that negative should pay itself fast.

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.


[ ] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.

I fell almost like this is bait with how many I see rushing to this, we should keep in mind our disdain is only a problem if we comand a sigmarite organization, as a court wizard for a dwarf king we aren't going to be comanding one anytime soon, so I can't think of spending to mitigate a problem that is unlikely to matter anytime soon anything but a waste.
We aren't even working in the empire anymore people, we don't just don't need this and are likely to gain it with time anyway based on description.


[X] Return it with your thanks to the Bright College. +2 College Favour.

We never used it and is likely we are never going to use it, better to just trade it for usefull stuff, since we don't even know how much someone else could use it.
 
[ ] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.

I fell almost like this is bait with how many I see rushing to this, we should keep in mind our disdain is only a problem if we comand a sigmarite organization, as a court wizard for a dwarf king we aren't going to be comanding one anytime soon, so I can't think of spending to mitigate a problem that is unlikely to matter anytime soon anything but a waste.
We aren't even working in the empire anymore people, we don't just don't need this and are likely to gain it with time anyway based on description
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Well said @Zaratustra
 
voting tally to see if Mathilde may become a conduit for Ranald's revolutionary goals:
Adhoc vote count started by Stranger1950 on Oct 3, 2019 at 8:15 PM, finished with 162 posts and 68 votes.
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[] Recruit Esbern and Seija
[] Recruit Panoramia
[] Recruit Maximilian
[] Recruit Johann

Pick all four.

This 'counts as' 4 Wizards, which means two actions per turn. 2 actions in order to be able to manage everybody magical, 5 wizards, in Karak Eight Peaks so far? Yes please.

... Also, just... Well. This is now our area of responsibility.

Plus, having them recruited, will probably help us do our wizardly stuff, too. ((F'r ex, Panoramia might know the best Jade Wizards to try to contact. Maximilian is great for papers and research. Johann is a Magister, and is investigating a dire enemy of humanity and of Dwarfkind. Even Esbern and Seija can be handy to have.)) (And like... For the future, it's useful for those thinking about Wizard Lord stuff and Wizard politics.)

EDIT: Woops, the plan vote thing. Uh... Okay. Not sure which to go for, some posts made good arguments, etc, so... Just going to remove X's from that for now so I don't wind up being a "vote for just 1" vote.

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
One action per turn will be spent keeping in touch with the EIC, allowing you to more directly control it and, if you wish, helping it branch out towards Karak Eight Peaks.

A single action to maintain contact with that newborn trade giant? Yes please. This just feels like the responsible and reasonable choice.

The EIC can do a lot of good, it can make a lot of money, it can do harm if somebody messes with it, 2 of our friends are involved in it, we helped create it... There's responsibility and profit and utility in it. Economic and political power.

The EIC can be relevant to trade with Karak Eight Peaks. It can also have big influence on Stirland's economic and politics. So it's both potentially useful and responsible for us to keep track of it. If something goes wrong, we want to be able to affect it. Just... yeah. 1 action locked in to maintain contact. More actions to actually be able to do stuff. Yes, it might take more actions but -- look, just... yeah. This is something we should do.

I feel very strongly about this, so... Yeah. Use it and keep an eye on it both.


BoneyM said:
[ ] Bureaucrat + Practical > Warrior of Paperwork: Scholarship is just a specific form of paperwork. You can live with it. Combines the two traits, +2 Learning, remove penalty to writing papers yourself.
[ ] Practical > Collaborator: Though you still prefer fieldwork to paperwork, you've found that as long as someone else is doing the actual writing, you're capable of producing some amazing papers. +2 Learning, +20 bonus to dictating papers.
[ ] Practical > Hands On: Wait, you can just get other people to do the paperwork? Why didn't I think of this sooner? +1 Diplomacy, +1 Stewardship, +1 Martial, +1 Intrigue, -1 Learning, +10 bonus to insights developed 'in the field' (as opposed to careful laboratory study).
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A lot of people have wanted to do research and investigation and experimentation on Snakejuice and on The Book. There was also the fact that Mathilde came up with the Mystical Matrix, and built and used the Mirror Trap, too. While we have Snakejuice and the Book as 2 obvious topics now, let's not forget that we managed 2 good works even before that (one of which was what led to the Snakejuice). So, for that, we probably definitely want to soften up our "Dislikes paperwork; Academia is hell!" stance. (Which means taking Warrior of Paperwork at least, maybe Collaborator -- though we'd want to do private, secret research and studying, so maybe not -- and avoiding the "Lab study is kinda boring" pick.)

As for what else... Gosh. I'm with everybody. They all look so good!

Polytheist would avoid a lot of big problems. It would also, show character growth in the form of... well, piety and religion. So if you're into that, into religious stuff, like with some of the Ranald and Ulgu ideas, it's very good. (And like. If we were going to try to do Ranald stuff, it would probably be for the best if the potentially-going-to-do-something-big Ranald worshipper was not one who had a big problem with Sigmar. That is, we won't want to end up in a situation where our Sigmar-disdain gets glued to our Ranaldite thing. Don't want to cause problems for Ranald or Ranaldites, with the premier god of the Empire, and all that.) Also, it's +1 Piety. That's decent. ... I also, just... Want to pick this one because, well... I don't want Mathilde to be bitter about a thing. I don't want her to have an aspect of resentment/bitterness about a thing. If she manages to move on from that, it would be good, you know?

Windsage. That... would be a very good pick for magical stuff. Hrm. Gah.

So I'm stuck wondering between Warrior of Paperwork, Polytheist, Windsage, and one more potential trait. Dammit!

This isn't even touching on the Infiltrator/Scout/Assassin traits, which we did a lot of, was risky to do, and had huge payoffs, during the Expedition. And would come in useful if we had to do it again. On the other hand, we... Gah. If we're not out and infiltrating -- because we're researching or herding an Argument of Wizards or setting up spy stuff or doing Court Wizard stuff -- it's not relevant to us, and just remains unused and waiting. It'd be useful if (when) the next espionage or military excursions start again in some future, but for our daily life and our Wizardly or religious ambitions... These are things that are useful if we're in another war mini-turn or are doing something risky, but not for catching up on our backlog or wizardly politicking or etc. Gah.
 
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I understand that wolf riding isnt that good compared to the others... and its basically pointless since we have the shadow horse... but I still want it 😅
 
Andres110 said:
You're taking small slivers of the total context to reach this bad conclusion of yours. Instead, look at the context the context in its entirety. The event that got us the trait was a total, major success for Mathilde and Ranald, with any connection between Mathilde and Mork severed or stolen; the nat 100 from Gunnars confirmed that there was "no risk of relapse."

Every single one of the other traits that Avatar is listed with is a wholly positive trait. Avatar was gained from fully succeeding in a major way with a nat 100 confirming that there'd be no risk of falling under Mork possession again. The Chaos Gods had nothing to do with what happened in Karag Nar, yet Avatar gives protection against them regardless, so it's reasonable to think it'd provide protection against other entities rather than vulnerability. It's unreasonable to think of Avatar as anything other than a wholly positive trait.
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I could say the exact opposite, that you are taking slivers to reach a positive conclusion.

The context is, we have a likely very powerful trait with ??? In front of it, we were a counduit to 2 deities, one our ally, one our enemy.
We were told we have no connection to Mork, but if our soul is left vulnerable then that doesnt matter, a new connection is possible in the same way that catching a different strain of flu is not a relapse.

The possibility is there, and it very real, I think it could be either and we need to be wary of it, instead of assuming it must be entirely positive.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Polyglot almost certainly has huge implications for when it comes to learning Anoqeyan but it's extremely hard to justify taking it over some of the other stuff on the list.
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I think on a superficial level it suffers but I honestly think polyglot will be one of the most useful all-seasons traits we can grab. Especially sitting as we are on what is likely to be a revived Silk Road.
 
[X] Plan Role Model for the Younglings
-[x] Recruit Esbern and Seija
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
-[x] Recruit Panoramia

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

[X] Donate it to the Winter Wolves of Ulrikadrin.

Nix's Warden said:
Do you remember how Mork Possessed us? We entered into the Temple of Only Gork in the middle of a Ritual, unknowingly started a Counter Ritual by merking the Black Ork Nobs and Warboss, and that Mork's Eye was already there, he was super pissed, and we unknowningly gave him an in by following his domain, was how we were posssessed.

So unless we enter into a Holy Ground of the Skaven, in the middle of a Ritual, started a Counter Ritual that ALSO followed the Horned Rats Domains, and it got passed Ranald, it wouldn't be able to possess us.

The Mork situation was under a very special set of circumstances, and with Ranald being able to help us, it would be very hard indeed to possess Matilda. And to be honest, as we saw with Mork, if shit happens, we will get possessed regardless. Atleast with Avatar we have a chance of fighting back.
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Noting that as Court Wiz Magister Grey, those scenarios aren't actually improbable....
 
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[X] Plan Fields of Gold
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
-[X] Recruit Johann

[X] Leave the EIC alone

So we chose the Learning spot, so I'm going to vote for all the options that increase Learning. I may adjust votes tactically later on.

[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.

[X] Bureaucrat + Practical > Warrior of Paperwork: Scholarship is just a specific form of paperwork. You can live with it. Combines the two traits, +2 Learning, remove penalty to writing papers yourself.

[X] Practical > Collaborator: Though you still prefer fieldwork to paperwork, you've found that as long as someone else is doing the actual writing, you're capable of producing some amazing papers. +2 Learning, +20 bonus to dictating papers.

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

And because I'd like to get rid of the anti-Sigmar penalty.

[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.

[ ] Keep it around in case you ever want to study non-Ulgu enchantments.
[X] Keep it anyway - you might need to encourage allies at some point.

@BoneyM the "keep it" options for the Torc of Fire seem like the same option to me. We're keeping it for a use in the future. We might eventually study it; we might give it away, but we're doing neither right now so what exactly is the difference between the two votes?
 
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das_slash said:
I could say the exact opposite, that you are taking slivers to reach a positive conclusion.

The context is, we have a likely very powerful trait with ??? In front of it, we were a counduit to 2 deities, one our ally, one our enemy.
We were told we have no connection to Mork, but if our soul is left vulnerable then that doesnt matter, a new connection is possible in the same way that catching a different strain of flu is not a relapse.

The possibility is there, and it very real, I think it could be either and we need to be wary of it, instead of assuming it must be entirely positive.
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Are you freaking kidding me? You accuse me of not reading the full context, even as you surely must have read my post, the same post which acknowledges fully what had happened, even as your post fails to acknowledge all that I brought up, or all the context that in fact exists. I formally accuse you of arguing in bad faith.
 
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[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
Faith and closeness to Ranald is a core part of Math's character.
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
Too good not to take especially with being the Court Wizard.

[X] Leave the EIC alone
We can check in on it every year or two, but better someone more loyal to the Empire than to their own pockets. If Wilhelmina dies, then we should get involved to make sure her successor as CEO isn't one of her sons. But most importantly, it's not fair to Belegar to be his Court Wizard but then be gone to the Empire to run a business. Maybe if we had gone Steward and were using the time to also profit K8P, but if we want to be hands-on in the Empire we should let someone else take the Learning spot. Belegar is already going to take a huge amount of flack for having a manling wizard on his council in place of a Rune Smith/Lord, no need to give anyone more ammo against him.

[X] Plan 2 wizards
-[x] Recruit Panoramia
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
 
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[X] Plan all but the ambers.

[X] Plan Fields of Gold

People, can we consolidate the MaxPan vote? There are at least 4 differently named plans calling for the same underling selection!



[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???


[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

Hard choices, but if it's research we want let's at least do it properly.

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.

I bet me voting for this surprises no one.
 
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