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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Andres said:
When automatic weapons are invented, Aqshy will have iron guns born of firepower.
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I wonder how far dwarves are willing to bend their artisanal fixation in that regard. I think it's been mentioned that they do use shot towers? Because yeah, hand manufacturing cartridges is barely viable for breech loaders, it's completely untenable to support automatic weapons at any kind of scale that way.
 
Boney said:
Thorek's expeditions aren't about taking and holding, they're about finding and recovering. He'd be looking for maximum killing power in the most compact and reliable form possible, ideally with a side of ability to navigate underground and in fallen Karaks, for which Dwarves tend to be his go-to.



He might reach out when the time comes.
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I mean...

Mathilde: Magister Lord with a Runic Gromril Greatsword, two dwarven revolvers, a mage's staff carved from dragonbone, a runic belt made by Kragg, and more, with phenomenal success in navigating, sneaking around in, scouting, and fighting in fallen Karaks, with a great track record against Skaven, Greenskins, and Undead, along with being friends with Thorek.

Johann: Magister with a body of gold, a deadly metal arm that can rip enemies to shreds or blast them with magic beams, a master at unarmed combat and punching things to death, a proven track record against Skaven and Greenskins, can see in the dark thanks to his magesight (just like Mathilde), and has an enchanted staff that telekinetically launches a steel ball at lethal velocities and recalls it back to the staff to make for a paradoxically mundane yet very magical weapon.

Wizards like those are fantastically well-suited for dwarven expeditions (big and small), being mobile, highly lethal, trustworthy, and bringing a lot of utility and options to the table for when you come across the unexpected or strange. It also helps that Thorek knows that they are the kind of people to prize safe, reliable, and consistent capability.

"Maximum killing power in the most compact and reliable form possible, ideally with a side of ability to navigate underground and in fallen Karaks" is basically a good chunk of Mathilde and Johann's resumes. Mathilde's preferred killing method is either a dwarven sword or a dwarven gun; Johann's is to punch them really hard with his golden fist. Powerful, yet reliable and relatable! A rarity for wizards.
 
Until recently, dwarfs would never have considered human wizards to be reliable, and for not terrible reasons.
But now, Thorek quite possible will be going to Mathilde not as a last resort, but among the first picks, to join his expedition.
 
Valmond said:
Until recently, dwarfs would never have considered human wizards to be reliable, and for not terrible reasons.
But now, Thorek quite possible will be going to Mathilde not as a last resort, but among the first picks, to join his expedition.
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I think most dwarf still think most wizards are "unreliable" (can't even control when you blow up, grumble grumble grumble) but Mathilde has earned the title of "reliable" and "trustworthy" but more importantly "effective".
Mathilde wouldn't be half the dwarf friend she is if it weren't for how bloody effective her contributions where. (There is nothing quite as effective as a lone wizard bringing back a dwarf hold to defend high pass as a measure against chaos.)
 
Tobtorp said:
Yeah, though it's probably more of an exception for just Mathilde and associates. New wizard means new vetting.
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Well, yes, being vouched by a known grand master of the craft allows much easier time to get hired.
Before, dwarves saw human wizards as even less reliable than humans did, and much less useful.
But now, a magister with proper documentation can walk into a dwarf hold and be considered more than just an explosion waiting to happen.
Because it is not just Mathilda and wizards in general, but the colleges in particular, that get reputation boost from this.
Being a Magister now means something.
 
It's a matter of framing. Wizards blowing up due to their own umgi incompetence was the default assumption, and not an unfair one in a distressing percentage of circumstances. After the river rescue and Vlag, there's a large number of influential dawi who know down to the stone of their bones that wizards also explode due to enemy action. If a gutter runner spikes your gunpowder reserves with warpstone, it's not a failure of your engineers when your cannons explode.
 
consequences said:
It's a matter of framing. Wizards blowing up due to their own umgi incompetence was the default assumption, and not an unfair one in a distressing percentage of circumstances. After the river rescue and Vlag, there's a large number of influential dawi who know down to the stone of their bones that wizards also explode due to enemy action. If a gutter runner spikes your gunpowder reserves with warpstone, it's not a failure of your engineers when your cannons explode.
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But it is your fault if you use gunpowder with the warpstone already pre-mixed, and that is what all wizards do all the time. All magic comes from Chaos, that is why all of it can miscast. The lessons is 'sometimes it is worth the risk'.
 
HungryHamadryad said:
I wonder how far dwarves are willing to bend their artisanal fixation in that regard. I think it's been mentioned that they do use shot towers? Because yeah, hand manufacturing cartridges is barely viable for breech loaders, it's completely untenable to support automatic weapons at any kind of scale that way.
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The Gotrek books have a Slayer engineer* with something like a hand cranked gatling gun. So it's a thing at least for the radical fringe. I imagine the justification is something like "it's a consumable, you don't need artisanally chopped firewood". Though I can totally see some dwarfs going "Yes, I do in fact need artisanally chopped firewood".

*Malakai Makaisson isn't a Slayer because of the gun, and respected enough that he gets pulled in for the canon Karag Dum expedition, but on the other hand he's quite deviant by dwarf standards. He swore an oath because the first two boats (one flying, one not) went quite badly, but after the third worked well, he seemed satisfied and basically retired to teach in Nuln. Which is quite the thing for a Slayer.
 
I would assume there is a level of, leeway, for things like bullets and quarrel heads.
They still must be of incredibly high quality, but maybe making somekind of device for making them, that is a masterwork quality, is allowed.
 
Yeah, i think there is a phisophical argument that as long as a single guy artisanally crafted the machinery for the mass production and operates it himself, the process counts as artisan. That's not going to get... AS mass produced as actual division of labor would get you, and I don't think it's something all dwarves would accept, but it's the sort of thing SOME number of dwarves would merely feel disappointed in themselves for the amount they've strayed from their ancestors instead of finding it completely unacceptable.
 
reignonyrparade said:
Yeah, i think there is a phisophical argument that as long as a single guy artisanally crafted the machinery for the mass production and operates it himself, the process counts as artisan. That's not going to get... AS mass produced as actual division of labor would get you, and I don't think it's something all dwarves would accept, but it's the sort of thing SOME number of dwarves would merely feel disappointed in themselves for the amount they've strayed from their ancestors instead of finding it completely unacceptable.
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Actually under the current laws wouldn't such a machine have to be made by the Toolmakers guild? Just like if you were making things using a hammer and anvil.
 
fictionfan said:
Actually under the current laws wouldn't such a machine have to be made by the Toolmakers guild? Just like if you were making things using a hammer and anvil.
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Probably not?
Sounds more like engineering guild matter if anything.
Could be a bit of a grey area that causes/caused immense amount of stress to which ever loremaster and/or guild representatives are trying to figure it out while everyone else keeps going as they have because the other option is to not have enough ammunition.
And eventually it just ends up being the way things are.
 
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