- Location
- canada
I just stated I am PMing the Mod who gave the warning for the exact definition. But thank you anyway.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Figured that out when she sacked Mathilde.
Information: Okay so we gotta talk about a few things.
okay so we gotta talk about a few things.
Since I keep getting messages asking me to explain my thought process behind this infraction, I'm gonna just address it in thread instead of in PMs for every PM I've received.
This is just a copy of my response to one user, but yeah:
In this instance, B_omega's suggested method and general mannerisms weren't acceptable. We tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to things like suggestions of biological warfare for the purpose of genocide, since that is a very tricky and sensitive topic that we'd rather not have taken to its extreme.
It's perfectly acceptable to discuss fighting another race in a war type situation, but it's absolutely vital not to get carried away in discussing the topic. The staff know and understand the nature of this thread - hell, you have a moderator actively participating in the thread - but we also know how people can get carried away in situations like this. And when the moderator participating in the thread actively suggests that a user backtrack on their suggestions and the user makes a bare minimum attempt to do so, we have an issue.
In addition to this, we also have a previous ruling on a situation like this:
If you wish to talk about using poison as a legitimate tactic against enemies in a war-like situation? That's acceptable. However, going as far as to state that the adversary race is comparable to rats or fungi, and suggesting that they be purged through what essentially is biological warfare is a problem.
And to make things completely and totally clear to the thread, I personally have little to no knowledge about the lore of Warhammer. Absolutely none. However, just because I don't know anything about it doesn't mean I can't look at this thread, see a post that violates our rules and infract someone accordingly. That is the main reason why I'm making this post; I need everyone to understand both my thought process regarding this situation, and to realize that at the end of the day, I need everyone in this thread to work with me and understand that there are lines that have to be drawn in the sand regarding what is and isn't acceptable in threads like this. So please work with us in the future, and try your best not to go overboard in your discussions.
Since I keep getting messages asking me to explain my thought process behind this infraction, I'm gonna just address it in thread instead of in PMs for every PM I've received.
This is just a copy of my response to one user, but yeah:
Admiral Skippy said:
In this instance, B_omega's suggested method and general mannerisms weren't acceptable. We tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to things like suggestions of biological warfare for the purpose of genocide, since that is a very tricky and sensitive topic that we'd rather not have taken to its extreme.
It's perfectly acceptable to discuss fighting another race in a war type situation, but it's absolutely vital not to get carried away in discussing the topic. The staff know and understand the nature of this thread - hell, you have a moderator actively participating in the thread - but we also know how people can get carried away in situations like this. And when the moderator participating in the thread actively suggests that a user backtrack on their suggestions and the user makes a bare minimum attempt to do so, we have an issue.
In addition to this, we also have a previous ruling on a situation like this:
If you wish to talk about using poison as a legitimate tactic against enemies in a war-like situation? That's acceptable. However, going as far as to state that the adversary race is comparable to rats or fungi, and suggesting that they be purged through what essentially is biological warfare is a problem.
And to make things completely and totally clear to the thread, I personally have little to no knowledge about the lore of Warhammer. Absolutely none. However, just because I don't know anything about it doesn't mean I can't look at this thread, see a post that violates our rules and infract someone accordingly. That is the main reason why I'm making this post; I need everyone to understand both my thought process regarding this situation, and to realize that at the end of the day, I need everyone in this thread to work with me and understand that there are lines that have to be drawn in the sand regarding what is and isn't acceptable in threads like this. So please work with us in the future, and try your best not to go overboard in your discussions.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
So, proposal: we go have a conversation with him. We tell him thanks for his service, but we really think it's about time he spend about six months in Atdorf and take his (very obvious air quotes) "magisters exams" so he can come back and do real research without "something" hanging over his head. If he resists, mention how much the dwarves hate liars because dishonest people can't be trusted with secrets.
IE
- give him a time out so we can check up on what he spent epilogue doing
- punish him for lies with loss of opportunity
- threaten him, deniably
- communicate that we are totally willing to give him enough rope to hang himself as long as he is useful in the meantime
- maintain a (potential) facade of caring for his advancement and supporting his research efforts, so if he plays nice this can just be water under the bridge.
Also we should, if court wizard, take the excuse to spend enough time around him during more dangerous research that if we mindhole him we shoot holes through the theories he has in his head.
Personally, I hold out hope for the older, grizzled knight struggling a bit with his faith and loyalties. We can bond over wolves and similar positions, leading groups of humans in fragile hope at the edge of the map, with so few others we can let see as humans, and not heroes. There's even a secret tunnel separating us.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
To be completely honest, i am rather confident Stirland will be fine. The empire, the witch hunters, and the churches all have vested interest in ensuring Sylvania stays still. EIC's economic success at this point does not appear to result from chaotic and heretical acts, making full use of privileges purchased lawfully from the elector count is well within the rules. I doubt Roswita and her witch hunter supporters are going to rock the boat when they have enough money to see to their goal.
- Location
- Australia
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
We really don't know that though. We only see the decision being made not any of the conversation leading up to it. It appears that she is trying her hardest to finish her father's work and letting everything else run on auto pilot.
It's not necessarily a bad thing. A successfully purging of undead allows people to overlook many sins. She will definitely be struggling for a while to rebuild athority but once she does stirland elector countess will be a powerhouse.
So just to clarify, Johann was actually a Grey College Magister imbedded to keep an eye on us and the other wizards to make sure everything was on the up and up and we got a good grade because we helped the dorfs and didn't try to mess around or hide our fat stacks of cash we got ?
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
We knew she was impulsive with her decisions regarding Mathilde, this is honestly just more of the same. Trading the short term for the long term is pretty much typical impulsive decision making.
No he was a magister of the order he was pretending to be a journeyman in. You can't pretend to be a mage of a different order of magic it'd require you to cast their spells which well that'd mean it's time to pacify you.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
It was also perfectly within the rules for the Stirlandian League to be operating the way it was, right up until it wasn't. They weren't destroyed for being cultists, or even because Van Hel knew they were breaking the law. He simply decided their stranglehold over the economy couldn't be allowed and had it destroyed, using non-payment of taxes as an excuse.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that she has wizardophobia. As in a medical condition. And was actually controlling herself exceptionallybwell during that conversation.
That, or dumber than some bricks I know - and she doesn't give off that i.pression otherwise.
Rule 5 - Do not debate staff decisions in-thread.
...
But Greenskins ARE fungi that reproduce through spores and the Skaven are giant Rats...
- Location
- Upon the back of the Great A'Tuin
Rule 5 - Do not debate staff decisions in-thread.
Literally the first sentence of the first result of the most basic google search said:
Stranger1950
Worth It
- Location
- Reverse Side of the World
As far as I know, Johann is a Gold College magister who goes to K8P to study about Skaven tech. He kept things hush hush due to the nature of his studies, though it is possible that Maxie knows what he was doing and in turn explains his hostility for him. We only knew about his desire to study skaven tech, but not the fact that he is a magister.
Edit: As for why he kept his actual title a secret, it is possible that he is trying to keep a low profile and being a journeyman is more useful in that regard. Another reason might be because he wanted to keep his involvement with the dwarves as minimal as possible and being a magister might bestow him more responsibilities that he wanted to avoid since he is going to the expedition to study the skavens, not to help the dwarves.
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- Pronouns
- It/They
[X] Steward
- Location
- United States of America
So, on the topic of the EIC, I don't think it will be a problem as long as Wilhelmina is alive. I believe she has enough business sense and self-preservation to understand that we have sufficient access to the company to pull it out by the roots if we deem it has become too dangerous or too destructive to the Empire.
Wilhelmina's sons may not have that business sense or sense of self-preservation to understand that. But, hopefully, Wilhelmina understands that and either sells her shares to someone else before her children can get it, or gives it to the child with the most amount of sense and responsibility.
Because make no mistake, we could do to the EIC what we did to the Stirland League, and it would be much easier due to our ability to get the records as a substantial shareholder. Hopefully it won't ever come to that because it will be difficult for Stirland to set up systems and other organizations to fill in the whole that EIC would leave, but if the EIC becomes worse than those problems, Mathilde would totally have the remit to take it out.
And we better because otherwise Magister Lord Wilhelmine von Bucht might come to tear it down for us, and that would simply be embarrassing.
Wilhelmina's sons may not have that business sense or sense of self-preservation to understand that. But, hopefully, Wilhelmina understands that and either sells her shares to someone else before her children can get it, or gives it to the child with the most amount of sense and responsibility.
Because make no mistake, we could do to the EIC what we did to the Stirland League, and it would be much easier due to our ability to get the records as a substantial shareholder. Hopefully it won't ever come to that because it will be difficult for Stirland to set up systems and other organizations to fill in the whole that EIC would leave, but if the EIC becomes worse than those problems, Mathilde would totally have the remit to take it out.
And we better because otherwise Magister Lord Wilhelmine von Bucht might come to tear it down for us, and that would simply be embarrassing.
Ok got it some of the language when people are talking about it seemed to indicate that might be the case but knowing Warhammer magic that'd uh I don't even know if it's possible to spoof what school you use.
So was he just slumming so he could poke skaven tech?
I know nothing about the lore BUT! comparing sentient fungi to fungus and giant rats to rats is totally not ok.
Fuck sake.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Pretty much. The only guys capable of spoofing the magic they're using are Tzeentchians they have a spell/prayer that basically has tzeentch go "Okay you know how to cast this spell for the next 24 hours using that wind"
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Since whether we need to be concerned about the EIC is essentially entirely in our hands, we need a set of guidelines for making our judgement calls on it. I would say that we can make this judgement based upon, essentially, two factors:
Point 1 is basically held in check by Wilhelmina's strong ethics and keen understanding of what economic policies will lead to widespread prosperity and what would cause suffering to the common folk. The moment she dies and the EIC gets a less savvy or less ethical administrator, this will crumble; to head off this circumstance it would be prudent to ensure that there is a worthy successor arranged for her. Hopefully she will manage this on her own but if not we can certainly give her a nudge. No further action should need to be taken on this matter, because honestly the Empire has always depended upon the personal ethics of the powerful to keep its populace from suffering.
Point 2 is more interesting. The big concern about stability was that Roswita was reducing the Elector Count's incomes to the point that she might not be able to maintain control of matters long-term, and that would of course cause a weak central authority and degradation of ability to handle catastrophe. However, we don't actually care about the authority of the office of the Elector Count being undermined, as long as the likely result of that erosion is not widespread chaos. Notably, the EIC being owned primarily by the nobles of Stirland (as it now is, discounting Mathilde's shares) means that we're basically looking at several noble families allying and putting themselves into a position to form an economic and political bloc which will be able to pressure the Elector Count to their advantage, and potentially eventually force a replacement of the current ruling line with a member of their own families. And that... isn't widespread chaos. It's just politics as usual, nobles striving to advance their own position and rank. The Grey College has no grounds upon which to interfere with this matter, as doing so would be blatantly taking sides in a nobles-vs.-Elector political scrum when neither side of the issue is in any way involved with enemies of the Empire or matters over which the Grey College has remit.
To conclude, Mathilde should be keeping an eye on the EIC but I'm pretty sure at this point the most action she should be reasonably taking is to sternly remind everyone to keep the good of the Empire in mind at all times, to make sure that their successors are also going to do the same, and that she's watching in case they forget.
- Is the EIC impeding the prosperity of the populace?
- Is the EIC destabilizing the political stability of the province?
Point 1 is basically held in check by Wilhelmina's strong ethics and keen understanding of what economic policies will lead to widespread prosperity and what would cause suffering to the common folk. The moment she dies and the EIC gets a less savvy or less ethical administrator, this will crumble; to head off this circumstance it would be prudent to ensure that there is a worthy successor arranged for her. Hopefully she will manage this on her own but if not we can certainly give her a nudge. No further action should need to be taken on this matter, because honestly the Empire has always depended upon the personal ethics of the powerful to keep its populace from suffering.
Point 2 is more interesting. The big concern about stability was that Roswita was reducing the Elector Count's incomes to the point that she might not be able to maintain control of matters long-term, and that would of course cause a weak central authority and degradation of ability to handle catastrophe. However, we don't actually care about the authority of the office of the Elector Count being undermined, as long as the likely result of that erosion is not widespread chaos. Notably, the EIC being owned primarily by the nobles of Stirland (as it now is, discounting Mathilde's shares) means that we're basically looking at several noble families allying and putting themselves into a position to form an economic and political bloc which will be able to pressure the Elector Count to their advantage, and potentially eventually force a replacement of the current ruling line with a member of their own families. And that... isn't widespread chaos. It's just politics as usual, nobles striving to advance their own position and rank. The Grey College has no grounds upon which to interfere with this matter, as doing so would be blatantly taking sides in a nobles-vs.-Elector political scrum when neither side of the issue is in any way involved with enemies of the Empire or matters over which the Grey College has remit.
To conclude, Mathilde should be keeping an eye on the EIC but I'm pretty sure at this point the most action she should be reasonably taking is to sternly remind everyone to keep the good of the Empire in mind at all times, to make sure that their successors are also going to do the same, and that she's watching in case they forget.
- Location
- United States of America
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure why he was slumming around as a journeyman, but it was possible that he just didn't want to deal with the responsibilities that being a magister in an army would bring.
He wanted to focus on his research and the army was simply a convenient tool to get him to a high Skaven population. Presumably he was fine with someone else taking charge and didn't want to monkey around with figuring out the ranking and splitting up leadership responsibilities.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
It is a sign of impulsive decision making but it is not proof of impulsive decision making. There are many cases were you either want to or have to make short term gains at the cost of long term gains.
Her decision to fire us was not an impulsive decision. She knew about us and likely had decided to fire us long before we met. It seems impulsive to us given how suddenly it happened but suddenness is not always impulsive.