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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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I mean, that's what a Celestial Dragon looks like now, literally the first full visual of one.
and boney's writing style means that I don't think it would contradict anything written.
Codex
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Funnily enough, she's one of the Celestial Dragon Emperor's children and goes by the title of Storm Dragon. Her brother has the title Iron Dragon. I'm now thinking that the Celestial Dragon Emperor has a child for each one of his winds, and now amusing myself over the batshit definitely not gonna be a thing theory that Dragomas is the Ghur child of the Dragon Emperor.That's probably an Azyr attuned dragon, Dragomas is Ghur
Oh no. This is a unique Celestial Dragon design, not the standard one. THey can't use a standard design for such an important figure. I'm pretty sure your average Celestial Dragon doesn't spit out lightning nearly as much.
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When Mathilde finds out: We need to get Dragons for all the Colleges! Amethyst has one, Amber has one, Light has an affiliated one... Ulgu has many, but they're really good at hiding, there's a bunch of magma dragons in a lost hold, we should recruit some for the Bright college, The imperial dragon is probably going the Chamon route, given how much it loves the imperial treasury. Maybe the Eonir have Ghyran attuned dragons. And then we just need a storm dragon...
Speaking of dragons: we should find out if Cython is interested in corresponding with the Imperial dragon
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According to the FAQ linked in the description of the Youtube video, the Rulers of Cathay are in fact Dragons who can take human form, with the original 2 being more anscient then the Old ones.
Ya know... When i first heard about Cathay becoming a major faction I was afraid that GW will make them the besterest at everything to pander to chinese market. So, far it feels like my fears were confirmed.
Ya know... When i first heard about Cathay becoming a major faction I was afraid that GW will make them the besterest at everything to pander to chinese market. So, far it feels like my fears were confirmed.
I think no matter what GW did you would have taken it to mean your fears would have been confirmed, none of this breaks old lore, it's just adding what we already knew with details and additions.
but seeing as this isn't the thread for it I wont continue this discourse.
It doesn't break the old lore because there is not much lore to break. And sure, this is just the trailer which is kind of supposed to put the faction in the best light, so it could still work, but i do not feel optimistic about it.
Recently read the scenes that involve a transformed Dragomas and he's only described as looking a bit ferrety.
Aslo now I want someone to start a quest for a Celestial Dragon MC
Codex
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The trailer did bring a topic to my mind though. I've never really considered this too deeply, but isn't it just plain weird how Dragomas can turn into a Celestial Dragon?
Dragomas goes out as a Journeyman through the Darklands, ends up in Cathay, and somehow comes back with a peace treaty from the Dragon Emperor and the ability to turn into a Celestial Dragon, which is stronger than even the strongest dragon that a normal person could turn into with Transformation of Kadon. I really have to ask, why the hell would a foreigner be allowed to see a Celestial Dragon? Much less get familiar enough with one to turn into one?
The more I think about it the more the crack theory of Dragomas being Dragonblooded makes more sense to me. I find the idea that Dragomas somehow managed to get to Cathay, convince the Dragon Emperor to sign a peace treaty and learn enough about Celestial Dragons to be able to casually become one with Transformation of Kadon (and he wouldn't have had dispensation to learn the spell before he left, so he would have had to learn the spell somewhere on the way to Cathay or in Cathay somehow) to be even more unlikely than him secretly being a Dragon.
Dragomas goes out as a Journeyman through the Darklands, ends up in Cathay, and somehow comes back with a peace treaty from the Dragon Emperor and the ability to turn into a Celestial Dragon, which is stronger than even the strongest dragon that a normal person could turn into with Transformation of Kadon. I really have to ask, why the hell would a foreigner be allowed to see a Celestial Dragon? Much less get familiar enough with one to turn into one?
The more I think about it the more the crack theory of Dragomas being Dragonblooded makes more sense to me. I find the idea that Dragomas somehow managed to get to Cathay, convince the Dragon Emperor to sign a peace treaty and learn enough about Celestial Dragons to be able to casually become one with Transformation of Kadon (and he wouldn't have had dispensation to learn the spell before he left, so he would have had to learn the spell somewhere on the way to Cathay or in Cathay somehow) to be even more unlikely than him secretly being a Dragon.
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Hasn't every single piece of Cathay Lore so far been "Cathay Big, Cathay Strong, Cathay high-tech, Cathay Emperor is a fucking Dragon, Cathay somehow loves/hates Tzeench, but Cathay really really far away"? It was basically the perception of Imperial China that medieval European states had (including suspected evil religion), but with a bit more magic.
This trailer is exactly what I expected from a Cathay trailer. It had literally zero surprises - a neat mix of pseudohistorical chinese infantry, gunnery, and even the animated statues that were mentioned in one of the few preexisting canon sources.
Well, the flying artillery was new, but doesn't exactly break the setting. Every single warhammer faction has to have flyers of some sort, after all. It's not even very surprising to have Cathay's flyer look like a festival float with guns on.
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I meant as in we have known for a very long time that Cathay is the largest, most populous, and oldest living human empire in the WH world. This is not pandering this is actually following through with the hype that's been told to us since like 2nd edition.
Codex
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I know I'm the one who posted the trailer, but for the sake of not having the thread derailed, can we at least keep the discussion in line with Divided Loyalties rather than discussing opinions on Cathay Lore? The Total War thread is for discussion of the trailer in general, I posted the trailer here so we could talk about possible iimplications and have fun visualising some of the stuff that might be relevant in DL, particularly Celestial Dragons.
NHO
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There's obvious solution to that.
Adopted, non-inheriting. As all who can transform into Celestial Dragons are.
Dragomas may not even know it, because it's a thing taught to children and no one bothered to correct him.
Tasoli
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Yeah I am boycotting every product that has GW logo on it, until they stop their recent efforts to stamp out every fanwork that is not on Warhammer+. Even TTS went down thanks to that.
Rewarding them with my money after that is not kosher so despite my intention to buy WH3 before, I decided to not do it until they stop their crusade against fanworks.
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Here is the thing. I don't mind them being large, powerful,populus etc. What i am afraid of is that they end up with no weaknesses, no disadvantages and no flaws. Just "The Best Human Faction" if not "The best faction ever" full stop. That is why I mentioned that this is the trailer and therefore supposed to show them at their best.
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Again, this isn't the thread for it. But if it satisfies you, the information provided says they're a slow moving force that's easy to outflank and that they're focused on defence. They also don't look to have guns, just cannons and hand cannons with single shot, and their spellcasters are split into Dragonblood Sorcerors with Yin and Yang and regular casters who use Alchemy and Astromancy. They seem to lack other Wind casters for some reason. They also need a ton of resources because their armies are huge and slow moving.
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I don't think so.
'best ever' is the high elves, that's the lore. (ok, Lizerdmen and Old ones, but the other race don't know that.)
but Cathy has always had the 'second best' title in WF. its not in any way part of the new global political dance, its old lore.)
and its important to note. 'Cathy thinks its the best full stop' that every other empire and kingdom is just far away barbarians or 'cute little things that only continue because of our belavanct tolerance.'
and frankly, the empire of sigmar is the same.
so if anything in game says 'cathy the best!' remember that its very likely cathy talking about itself or people who know that they can get their head cut off if they say otherwise.
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Well, he can transform into that form, with whiskers and all:
Good point that, the elves are still out there and so are the dwarfs, empires that were great before men learned to forge iron, empires which in the dawn of the world drove the hosts of Chaos from the their halls and shores and sealed much of its power away even after the Old Ones, godlike in power, had fled. If there is anyone who has the receipts for 'we are the best'... well it ain't any flavor of human. Like you could make an argument for the lizardmen, but they are not really involved in the world so I do not think they are in the running.
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.Well, considering that the trailer in question starts with a dragon, born of the dragons that predate the Old Ones sassing the Old ones, I am pretty certain they would be contesting this part: (ok, Lizerdmen and Old ones, but the other race don't know that.). But honestly? if it is aall clearly from in-universe claims, it's fine. What I am afraid of is that GW will try to secure that lucrative chinese market by going beyond the in-universe propaganda
yes and no.Alright, to talk about something else, I found pictures of the Iron and Storm Dragons so people can peruse them to see the variety in Celestial Dragon appearance:
See, quite a bit of variance.
there is variance 'in' the type of dragon.
but they both look like the same type of dragon, and don't look like a 'old world' or Uthrian dragon... at all.
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It's complicated, but ultimately both are 100% grammatically correct, because "than" has two uses. (And because despite my distaste for doing so, dropping the "are" at the end of your version is perfectly acceptable.) The version you're suggesting is the more "educated" and artificial-sounding, because it's what posh people in the 18th century decided to use to differentiate themselves from the common folk, while the "me and Egrimm" is the more conversational sounding to most native speakers.
Merriam Webster has a decent breakdown.
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I wonder if the reason Dragomas came back with the alliance was specifically because he was able to transform into a celestial dragon, with that giving him a certain level of respect in their society.
Also, on the website for Total War Warhammer III there's mention that Cathay is "Overseen by the Celestial Dragon Emperor and his wife, the Moon Empress, and ruled by their children." This implies some pretty interesting things that the Celestial Dragon Emperor specifically oversees the Empire, but it's ruled by his children, and also this mention of a Moon Empress, also apparently on a level beyond most gods and predating the Old Ones.
I wonder how this Moon Empress lore might compare with what we've seen of the moons from Boney's writing (although ofc TWW3 is not necessarily canon here).
And two new lores of magic of Yin and Yang, wielded by 'dragon-blooded sorcerers'. Do we have dragons and humans mating, or is it some gift thing?
I need to know more.
Edit: Apparently the Emperor and Empress rule from a celestial city contemplating the destiny of the Empire, sounds like they are more hands off (maybe detrimentally so similar to Slann) and their kids, who seem to do the day to day ruling, 'don't get on'. Warhammer faction flaws are great.
Also, on the website for Total War Warhammer III there's mention that Cathay is "Overseen by the Celestial Dragon Emperor and his wife, the Moon Empress, and ruled by their children." This implies some pretty interesting things that the Celestial Dragon Emperor specifically oversees the Empire, but it's ruled by his children, and also this mention of a Moon Empress, also apparently on a level beyond most gods and predating the Old Ones.
I wonder how this Moon Empress lore might compare with what we've seen of the moons from Boney's writing (although ofc TWW3 is not necessarily canon here).
And two new lores of magic of Yin and Yang, wielded by 'dragon-blooded sorcerers'. Do we have dragons and humans mating, or is it some gift thing?
I need to know more.
Edit: Apparently the Emperor and Empress rule from a celestial city contemplating the destiny of the Empire, sounds like they are more hands off (maybe detrimentally so similar to Slann) and their kids, who seem to do the day to day ruling, 'don't get on'. Warhammer faction flaws are great.
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Predating the Old Ones does not make you beyond the Gods, I mean hell Dragon Ogres predate the Old Ones and and I think one of the Ducklings killed one of those.