Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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torroar said:
Unlikely. Hexwraiths are literally born of the domain of the God of the Dead, and are not really reincarnated souls, generally. All the source material says is that they're born in the Underworld/Morr's Realm and come out into the mortal realm to take down damned souls and return them to death. And, also that they're kinda singleminded and dumb about it enough that they repeatedly get tricked by necromancers and vampires across the world and subsequently bound.
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OK. Can they be trained by the Cult of Morr to be more effective?
 
Czes said:
I don't think it's going to be razed, but I doubt they will just reconcile for no apparent reason. Free actor or not, the man has connections to Marienburg, a city that has been proven to be influenced by Skaven and he himself has dealinfs with Druchii. Given those facts and the clear alternatives, with whom the Asur had much better dealings with (Nordland, Ostland, Eonir), I doubt it will just solve itself after 11 years.
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Marienburg is still the province of the Empire and attacking it has repercussions.

Like, this is not how politics work. You don't burn your province to curry favour with foreign power if you are not incompetent or outright malicious and Magnus is neither. Otto Steinroth being an asshole pirate and in coalition with Skaven cultists does not give Asur blanket approval to attack it.

I would agree that there being other extant avenue for trade could make their return to the city unlikely, but the only one of them just got razed by two black arks, so thats kind of no-bueno unless they wanna get in on sweet land deals by helping deal with the fallout of that.

Dmol8 said:
OK. Can they be trained by the Cult of Morr to be more effective?
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No. Apparitions are Apparitions. They don't get taught. Or dealt with.
 
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Massgamer said:
Here is hoping Evangeline can placate him by offering Otto, all those that took part in the raid, the stolen treasure, and maybe some other Marienburg concessions so he doesn't totally destroy their docks/merchant ships after a long battle with Imperial ships like in canon.
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See, here is the thing.
Elector's meet and Eva setting off post-haste to investigate/purge/unfuck Marienburg happened months ago.
With all the shit baring down on the empire, I can't quite see Eva remaining in Mburg for all that time, unless the investigation/purge is just taking that long.

Oh, for sure, I am certain she would make it damn clear to whoever is left standing after her rampage what would happen to them if they failed to deal with Steiner once he reappears, but I don't see her sitting and waiting for him, ya ken?

And, for all the High elf technical, naval and magical superiority, I also don't see Aisilin being able to get to Marienburg before Black arcs reached Salkalten, even if Otto had hit the Elven coast and returned to Marienburg while Eva was still there.
 
henkalv said:
Though on the flipside, if the goblins actually manage to kill off the beasttide then they are probably going to build up some scary hero characters.
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Gobbotide?

jwolfe_beta said:
I do have to wonder how they managed to get Kat in the box in the first place.
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Once Alex opens the box, we can find out :3 !

Lonosic said:
Middenbowl
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Everyone ignores Marienburgerbowl!

There's a level of spiciness in the Assur-Otto-Empire powderkeg with the dash of beastmen crisis in the horizon that is not to be underestimated. Not to mention the whole staadholder thing being rehashed out.
 
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If it is Aislinn and he's going to burn Marienburg there could be some very unfortunate timing. The Barak Varr navy could see him in the act on the way to Salkaten. That's the better encounter because they might bypass that fight to get to our aid. Worse would be them seeing it on the way back from Salkaten having missed the bulk of that fight, frustrated and pissed off. Worst would be if they've decided to go up the Reik to support Karak Kadrin so they've got all the frustration and they need passage through Marienburg and imperial cooperation on the river - that's a guaranteed battle.

"Wrong Elgi, wrong city, but it's still knife eared wazzoks burning an Imperial city. RUN OUT THE GUNS!"
 
Good lord, if that happens (unlikely) but that is going to be political hell to deal with.

Also, Kattarin being stuff in a box and has her screaming ignored reminds me way too much of TTS shenanigans.
 
OTOH there could be a nat 100. Otto's treasure laden fleet finds Varr in its way as it heads back to Marienburg, this slows them down enough for Aislinn to catch them at sea. He sends a courier to ask the Dwarves their intentions towards the pirates, the Dawi go "pirates you say?" and stop any of the pirates getting away. In the aftermath Aislinn complains about having to let two Black Arks escape and the Dawi mention they just so happen to be after two Black Arks themselves...
 
As near as I can tell, Hexwraiths aren't really...trainable. Or intelligent. They're more like people+horse+scythe shaped arrowheads, shot out by Morr towards damned souls. Now, clearly, this worked for a time, or at least there's enough of them managing that there seems to be nothing slowing Morr down from continually pumping them out. Because of the aforementioned vampire/necromancy thing, and that Necrarchs started doing it a long time ago. Plus, going by the wiki entry/source material the wiki entry comes from, by 2522, necromancers literally across the known world are starting to pull in Hexwraiths into their shambling armies - regular necromancers and vampires included.

No, they're too single-minded, and they are bound entities of Morr - well until they become bound entities through necromantic spells. You'd have to somehow pipe up and tell Morr to be the one to change them, and actually somehow manufacture that conversation as well as survive it, which is just...so very, very unlikely.

They're Divine Entities, just...ones who so happen to be particularly susceptible to necromancy, because it's a magical art specifically devoted to screwing with death itself.

Like, Dazh of Kislev has his Arari, his warrior-consort spirits that dance around him in his golden sun palace. And, much as MOST of End Times Delenda Est, I do personally like the Dread Abyssals of Usirian even if they got screwed over by Nagash, as well as the Hammurai of Ptra that were twisted into the Morghasts also by Nagash.

But the Call Divine Servant Ritual, one of THE most difficult to perform Divine Lore rituals, and only one of the two inscribed in the Tome of Salvation sourcebook, mentions that there a number of Divine Servants. Such as the true White Wolves of Ulric, not just the semi-divine beasts that stalk the forests of the Empire, but also Triton for Manann, Periphata for Myrmidia, but also empowered sacred animals of the Gods i.e. the Portal Ravens of Morr or Hornd Stag of Taal, or even weird shit like a floating cat's paw for Ranald or a straight up moving twin-tailed comet for Sigmar.

Or particularly favored souls, like Caccino for Verena or Pergunda for Shallya. So cultists of particular importance/potency get to show up too.

Point is, the Gods have servants beyond those in the material realm. It's just that Morr has the Hexwraiths, and then they go and get themselves captured by Necromancers a lot of the time. They are not, at any point, going to be 'instructed' by a Priest of Morr. Beseeched, perhaps. Called, even, for help.

But 'taught'?

Nope.
 
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torroar said:
Point is, the Gods have servants beyond those in the material realm. It's just that Morr has the Hexwraiths, and then they go and get themselves captured by Necromancers a lot of the time. They are not, at any point, going to be 'instructed' by a Priest of Morr. Beseeched, perhaps. Called, even, for help.
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So none of the Priests of Morr who die can talk to Morr and explain to him that his pet attack dogs are getting slapped in the muzzle by a stack of magical bacon and forced to kill for undead, and necromancers?
 
Yeah, Divine Servant as mentioned can be anything from weird esoteric i.e. straight up big ol' twin-tailed comet, but also exceptional cultists past, so potentially you could have, like, the first Grand Theogonist or something. It's noted that each individual potential thing is specific to single tomes, as in there is a single tome in the Cult of Myrmidia which contains the instructions specifically for trying to call upon Periphata in the name of Myrmidia, and the same for Triton in the name of Manann.

So, you know.
 
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And now I have a humorous image of Volkmar the grim performing the ritual to summon divine servant and get Freddy-as-a-warrior-angel kinda deal.
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Or even better, Freddy being the most commonly summoned divine servant of Sigmar due to the ritual consisting of preparing a ton of drink and calling him down, or something like that. Simple and effective, if not cheap.
 
yannoshka said:
Or even better, Freddy being the most commonly summoned divine servant of Sigmar due to the ritual consisting of preparing a ton of drink and calling him down, or something like that. Simple and effective, if not cheap.
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Sounds like the "Ritual" to summon Grombrindal.

Also I image Freddy would be pretty pissed at being denied his beauty sleep.
 
Mmmmmmm...yeah, that sounds like a Total War blurb for funnies. They also somehow ended up having a Gotrek Gurnisson quote about living in Karak Eight Peaks, as in former resident, when I'm like 75% sure that it's just a quote from Trollslayer when they first went there. Which is wild. Then there's the Lexicanum entry which talks about him being born in 2370, but zero citations for it, while the Warhammer Wiki which doesn't mention his age at all. But either way, Karak Eight Peaks fell way before his time, so...mlegh.

No, Grombrindal is drawn to places/times/events of great danger and of great import, sometimes both at the same time. He uh, doesn't generally just show up with any such ritual. He's a constant world wanderer, though, so it wouldn't surprise me if there were more than a few dwarf rangers, merchants, etc. on the road or in various Karaks who met him while he was concealing his identity.
 
torroar said:
Then there's the Lexicanum entry which talks about him being born in 2370, but zero citations for it, while the Warhammer Wiki which doesn't mention his age at all.
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It's from White Dwarf Issue #140, which gives a timeline of the major events of several Warhammer Fantasy novel series like G&F and Genevieve, and it puts Gotrek's birth at 2370.

Of course, it is a White Dwarf article from 1991 that also contradicts several points from later lore, such as Karl Franz being crowned in 2491 rather than 2502, so take that as you will.
 
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Blackout said:
It's from White Dwarf Issue #140, which gives a timeline of the major events of several Warhammer Fantasy novels, and it puts Gotrek's birth at 2370.

Of course, it's a White Dwarf article from 1991, so take that as you will.
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Huh!

I bow down to the loremaster, then. Good thing I made sure to put all those questionmarks in the threadmark. Gonna delete some portions of the universe real quick...

Blackout said:
Of course, it is a White Dwarf article from 1991 that also contradicts several points from later lore, such as Karl Franz being crowned in 2491 rather than 2502, so take that as you will.
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Ah! You edited it! I see, I see...I didn't have none of that White Dwarf material, so...hmmm...I must contemplate.
 
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torroar said:
Huh!

I bow down to the loremaster, then. Good thing I made sure to put all those questionmarks in the threadmark. Gonna delete some portions of the universe real quick...



Ah! You edited it! I see, I see...I didn't have none of that White Dwarf material, so...hmmm...I must contemplate.
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In my personal opinion, a single line from a spin-off magazine from... I think 1991 was 3rd edition? Well, it doesn't hold a lot of weight in terms of canonicity, at least for me. Warhammer lore is about as porous as swiss cheese, and if GW doesn't adhere to its own canon why should we have to rigorously follow it?

Just wanted to mention where Lexicanum got it from because I hate poor citations from the bottom of my soul, but I think what makes sense and what would make for a good story should always take precedence over strict interpretation of canon, especially if it's some random article from 32 years ago. Besides it's physically impossible to have read all Warhammer material ever published, so stuff inevitably creeps in one way or another.
 
Honestly, i wouldn´t put to much weight on that old article, given just how inaccurate it is with say karl franz as already mentioned, imo.

Of course that is up to you Torroar in the end
 
I do wonder, are we at a technological level where we could build something like star or bastion forts? I´d imagine much like iirl, they´d prove to be way more resilient to cannonfire than traditional walls, they´d offer more resistance to magic and the like in warhammer fantasy.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ZUFCf06PI&ab_channel=SandRhomanHistory

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqIa-NpzAfg&ab_channel=SandRhomanHistory
some sources on just how insanely hard it was to take a star fort
 
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