Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

[torroar]

Every single time I try and google alko powered sawmill, it just gives me equipment types and things to try and sell me, like lawnmowers and dust extractors and whatever.

You need to do more than just throw out a term here out of the blue, sorry. Explanations would be helpful.

Additionally:

Wurzen and Vandergart are important for different reasons. Vandergart is your logging industry headquarters, while Wurzen is your major river trade settlement outside of Wulfenburg, a nexus for traders from all over the Empire who take the river paths. Both of them are quite sizable townships, but due to the transitory nature of their industries and trade, their population swells and flows up and down quite a bit depending on the season and work available.

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Important Settlements post in Informational section. Vandergart transports down south to Wurzen and west to Wulfenburg, but is itself not surrounded by massive rivers or whatever.

 

[MightbeaMimic]

Every single time I try and google alko powered sawmill, it just gives me equipment types and things to try and sell me, like lawnmowers and dust extractors and whatever.

You need to do more than just throw out a term here out of the blue, sorry. Explanations would be helpful.

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I think they mean using the alcohol engine to power a sawmill rather than the usual water power.

 

[torroar]

Ah. Okay.

IF that is the case:

Definitely all of you please don't ever use 'alko' as a shorthand for alcohol. Cause...I've been manic for the past few minutes frantically trying to figure out what the hell 'alko' powered...anything was.

And the answer to that is no. Alcoholic Vapor Engines are thus far restricted entirely to the Vapor Tanks and a few experimental engines in the school. Trying to shift it over to larger or chained or whatever for larger industrial purposes or for a vapor-powered ship is not yet on the table.

 

[MightbeaMimic]

And the answer to that is no. Alcoholic Vapor Engines are thus far restricted entirely to the Vapor Tanks and a few experimental engines in the school. Trying to shift it over to larger or chained or whatever for larger industrial purposes or for a vapor-powered ship is not yet on the table.

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Would I be correct in saying that the issue there is that we can't currently make an alcohol engine big or powerful enough?
Because I imagine some engineers have at least thought of making an alcohol powered ship even if they can't do it yet

 

[Marlin]

Ah. Okay.

IF that is the case:

Definitely all of you please don't ever use 'alko' as a shorthand for alcohol. Cause...I've been manic for the past few minutes frantically trying to figure out what the hell 'alko' powered...anything was.

And the answer to that is no. Alcoholic Vapor Engines are thus far restricted entirely to the Vapor Tanks and a few experimental engines in the school. Trying to shift it over to larger or chained or whatever for larger industrial purposes or for a vapor-powered ship is not yet on the table.

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Huh, I guess the Vapor Cycle would unlock projects like adding the alcohol engine onto ships, or industrial purposes. Because that would give more data for our engineers as a "consumer mass producible product", unlike the Vapor Tanks exclusive high maintenance design.

 

[torroar]

If you want more vapor engine stuff, research vapor engine stuff.

If you want more war machine/artillery stuff, research war machine/artillery stuff.

On occasion, yes, a project will show up seemingly ex nihilo. I assure you this is only possible by way of rolls for the engineering school, furthermore based on a variety of factors. Such as how much a certain design is being utilized and can therefore be better speculated on. What resources are available to the dynasty. The quietly increasing number of students and graduates out of the school over time. Inventions or technological creations elsewhere in the world that can inspire if heard about. Or better, acquired.

And, yes, on occasion, from sheer drunkenness, such as the Doomsphere and Deathspinners.

 

[Malevolo]

Ah. Okay.

IF that is the case:

Definitely all of you please don't ever use 'alko' as a shorthand for alcohol. Cause...I've been manic for the past few minutes frantically trying to figure out what the hell 'alko' powered...anything was.

And the answer to that is no. Alcoholic Vapor Engines are thus far restricted entirely to the Vapor Tanks and a few experimental engines in the school. Trying to shift it over to larger or chained or whatever for larger industrial purposes or for a vapor-powered ship is not yet on the table.

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Sorry, the word vapour-engine just flew out of my mind, and I used the next word my strange brain could use as a short-hand.

 

[Cheap Orange Knofe]

Ah. Okay.

IF that is the case:

Definitely all of you please don't ever use 'alko' as a shorthand for alcohol. Cause...I've been manic for the past few minutes frantically trying to figure out what the hell 'alko' powered...anything was.

And the answer to that is no. Alcoholic Vapor Engines are thus far restricted entirely to the Vapor Tanks and a few experimental engines in the school. Trying to shift it over to larger or chained or whatever for larger industrial purposes or for a vapor-powered ship is not yet on the table.

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I spent far too long trying to figure that out .
Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

I think they mean using the alcohol engine to power a sawmill rather than the usual water power.

Click to shrink...

This is likely a bad idea. The problem is that we are using alcohol as fuel. This is extremely inefficient. We are not pumping oil out of the ground to use for fuel. We are harvesting grain crops, rendering them down to mash, and fermenting them in barrels, then burning fuel to distill the result into fuel. This is extremely labor inefficient and you would be better off having a worker walk in a treadmill to generate power. The treadmill produces more power at less human labor input and doesn't require cropland be set aside for crops that are not eaten.

What WOULD be an interesting direction is wood gas. Wood gas is a fuel that is compatible with the sorts of engines we are using that is produced as a byproduct of charcoal manufacturing. All it takes to produce is heating wood in a low oxygen environment until it releases it's volatiles and turns into charcoal. Now, traditionally charcoal is made in burn piles covered in dirt where the burning outer layer consumes all the limited oxygen and heats the inner material to charcoal. Using a sealed chamber is actually more efficient, as you are not losing part of your wood to heat the rest. You can actually harvest the wood gas using a valve and pipe the gas back under the chamber to burn to keep the process going, and still have excess to store for later use.

You can do the same with coal and produce coal gas. It's essentially the same thing as wood gas, and it produces coke rather than charcoal.

Wood and coal gas are really useful because they produce fuel as a byproduct of a common process we have an endless need for. We work metal and so have an endless need for more coke. We heat homes with fire and so have an endless need for more charcoal. Effort is already spent on producing these products, and so for that process to ALSO produce gas fuel is just bonus. All it takes is for an engineer to muck about with designing a machine to make charcoal or coke easier (because a charcoal burn oven you can reuse and don't need to dig up is not a complex idea) and discovering the vapors are flammable to discover the fuel, and at that point things really take off.

And you don't even need to remove the oxygen from the chamber. You heat the wood or coal above it's flash point and the initial combustion reaction will turn the limited oxygen into carbon dioxide and the chamber has limited enough oxygen you barely lose any output. You literally just need a sealed oven with an output valve that let's gas out but not in that you can heat really hot.

 

[Marlin]

Nah, I'm going to disagree with you here.

For a start, 2 Ark's attendant fleets is not 'minimum effort'. It's not the hilarious amount of overkill that comes from 2 Black Arks but it's absolutely not minimum effort. It's a significant force far beyond the typical raiders

As for why they didn't target one target at a time and instead spread the hits out, it's worth noting that we were extremely lucky to get the amount of warning we did. IIRC there was a priest of Manaan who literally swam miles fighting off sharks with crossbow bolts in his back to get the warning to us. Without that, Salkalten probably wouldn't be protected by a prepared Army of Ostland that knew they were coming. At best we might have been able to rush it up to the city. They also weren't expecting us to have fallen back several walls, something we only did due to having a handmaiden around who could tell us how the Arks were going to approach this. Basically, most of our defenders should have been dead there and then. Not only that, we have the notoriously isolationist Wood Elves who have not only turned up to help, but given us enough highly capable casters that we can counter most of their magical artillery.

Basically, the siege (as it is) is going completely wrong for the Druchii and they're gambling that throwing their main forces into the grinder will buy them a (relatively) cheap victory and they'll return with a bunch of slaves and our head. If that fails, it might be that they keep attacking but far more likely IMO is them retreating and instead going somewhere else for a few years/decades to get enough slaves hitting relatively undefended targets that when they return home they can buy their survival.

Hopefully their problems will be compounded by us ramming a fleet or 2 up their arses and doing severe enough damage to the Arks that the High Elves can find, catch and sink them

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Took me a while to make an argument.

Freddy's PoV can be a case of unreliable narrator. The fastest example of this is the Starbrook Trade Package built to take money away from the Trident and Stirland. Freddy thought the complications were incredibly obvious, and even once Stephan and Ortrud displayed ignorance of the matter, Freddy still didn't doubt they could see it. A recent example I'm aware of is when Freddy took a look at Wissenland's Elector Coutness, and failed to notice she was doing some impressive physical training.

Her slightly burnt straw colored hair has lightened considerably since the last Elector's Meet, past streaks of grey straight on to white. Though there is some tasteful makeup, it cannot fully mask the wrinkles and crows feet which are visible on her face. Rather than bulking up slightly, as you had expected when she was granted the Runefang, either through general exercise or at least some form of minimal combat training, she has actually thinned out notably. Not to a wholly unwell extent, but the difference is significant enough on its own.

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Edited some fixes in to include Toppenheimer's dual wielding Runefangs thanks to years of Cult training, Reiksmarshal using Drakwald Runefang, and the inclusion of all the extra knights that have been congregating in Nuln for a long while now IC

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To spread terror at the knowledge of what is coming. That the Druchii don't care that you know. Or even that they want you to, now at least. But you are reasonably sure they don't or didn't know how early you knew. Long enough for you to call your allies, long enough for the coast to be evacuated to Salkalten.

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Now, as far as i can tell this should be a wrong conclusion Freddy made. The druchii did in fact know they were discovered by at least the beginning of the current year, or within that first week. The druchii have access to what is happening on Ulthuan, Ulthuan knew what was going on at the start of this year. Not to mention the imperial rumor mill was not quiet about the druchii incoming either. The druchii know that Ostland and Nordland were expecting them. The druchii did also know about the dwarf built wall of Salkalten.

If the druchii weren't expecting Salkalten to be a hard fight, why did they send two Black Arks if the break the wall strategy was the main plan for the druchii, instead of a supplement? Two Black Arks on one target is unusual for the druchii.

Two Black Arks is overkill for a punitive campaign, unless they expected actual trouble and greater issues. Regardless of why, the druchii did not at all underestimate Ostland.

I'm not seeing an explanation for why the Druchii didn't throw everything on the weakest link, smash that one quickly, then move onto Salkalten inside a month or three. The Druchii knew they lost the element of surprise. Ostland prepped itself to deal with any coastal attack on Salkalten, and you do not put two Black Arks on one target even for a punitive expedition if you think it'll be a simple smash and break. Nordland is obviously a weaker target than Ostland, strategically to gain anything from this campaign the druchii need a win, to do that they need to commit at least something of quality into the Druchii fleet, which they did not do. Or maybe the druchii fleet was reduced in quality from Eldyra leading an attack?

The Druchii if they the battle is going against them are very much capable of just retreating to the Arks and pulling back out to sea, that the reason we told our Naval forces not to engage and instead arrive after they have made land fall. The Dark Elves present for this battle unless they are overwhelmed with bloodlust are perfectly capable of cutting their losses and leaving. The Witch King might be pissed at the lost resources but is not for example going to try and kill Khaine Chosen blade in the world of a failure like this could be.

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They really are not capable of running away. It takes time to move the Black Arks, to charge them up/drag them away, and get them moving. The druchii invested Two Black Arks into striking Salkalten. One Black Ark is enough to terrify any coast. Two Black Arks is overkill for a human coastline, much less one settlement. The druchii are also prideful elves, to acknowledge in any form they will at all need to use TWO BLACK ARKS, speaks volumes about their personal comittment to hurting Ostland. In canon the druchii used no fewer than five Black Arks to blockade the hold of Barak Varr The druchii of this expedition cannot leave until Salkalten suffers some form of defeat.

The reason we told our naval forces not to engage was because engagement was suicide, and would generate no gain. Those Black Arks can run over ships in their path, no need for a Black Ark to do anything but ram the enemy fleet to win. And our ships would be outmanoeuvred by the Black Arks, or be anhilated by dhar beams unless the Black Arks were sitting ducks letting us hit them.

I realize I don't know how a Black Ark moves. I imagine it might be difficult for the druchii to retreat if 90% of their magic users are dead, or heavily occupied in the magical fight. Or does a Black Ark not need any form of magic ability to move?

This is likely a bad idea. The problem is that we are using alcohol as fuel. This is extremely inefficient. We are not pumping oil out of the ground to use for fuel. We are harvesting grain crops, rendering them down to mash, and fermenting them in barrels, then burning fuel to distill the result into fuel. This is extremely labor inefficient and you would be better off having a worker walk in a treadmill to generate power. The treadmill produces more power at less human labor input and doesn't require cropland be set aside for crops that are not eaten.

What WOULD be an interesting direction is wood gas. Wood gas is a fuel that is compatible with the sorts of engines we are using that is produced as a byproduct of charcoal manufacturing. All it takes to produce is heating wood in a low oxygen environment until it releases it's volatiles and turns into charcoal. Now, traditionally charcoal is made in burn piles covered in dirt where the burning outer layer consumes all the limited oxygen and heats the inner material to charcoal. Using a sealed chamber is actually more efficient, as you are not losing part of your wood to heat the rest. You can actually harvest the wood gas using a valve and pipe the gas back under the chamber to burn to keep the process going, and still have excess to store for later use.

You can do the same with coal and produce coal gas. It's essentially the same thing as wood gas, and it produces coke rather than charcoal.

Wood and coal gas are really useful because they produce fuel as a byproduct of a common process we have an endless need for. We work metal and so have an endless need for more coke. We heat homes with fire and so have an endless need for more charcoal. Effort is already spent on producing these products, and so for that process to ALSO produce gas fuel is just bonus. All it takes is for an engineer to muck about with designing a machine to make charcoal or coke easier and discovering the vapors are flammable to discover the fuel, and at that point things really take off.

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We're warhammer fantasy. That means that "real life physics are not completely applicable here in this quest". And yeah, this has come up before. QM can you add the info into the Q&A?

Ah, yes, Carnot's Theorem. Of course you are right, but consider this:

Warhammer Fantasy has frankly impossible machines and technology that should/cannot work IRL, but do on Mallus. It has been discussed before. The airships, the steam tanks, the gyrocopters which - again - run on steam power yet can fly ridiculous distances and with enormous payloads up to and including wholesale bombing bays. Let alone what the skaven get up to. Alcohols which are not just XXX, which implies around 100% alcohol content, but XXXXXX and can even in some cases cause regenerative healing effects depending on the brew. Outright magic and all that implies. An entire classification of dwarf runes specifically meant for machines/engineering. Metals that include not just bronze, iron, and steel, but truesteel, silverine, gromril, obsinite and so on. Warp portals that have been opened on the polar ends of the planet for thousands of years, entities which live in an entire other dimension which can be altered and changed depending on what people dream and think of them. Literal reality itself on Mallus can change due to thought given enough time, a blade can become holy if thought so and blessed, and faith can outright cause impossible feats. There is an Ancestor God of Engineering, even, from the dwarfs.

Carnot's Theorem may be applicable IRL and relied upon. But this is Mallus, where the alcohol is better, the machines can go in different ways, and the alcohol vapor engine is a bit better than the steam ones that were previously in use in the doomspheres. Much of Warhammer Fantasy is grim, and dark, and positively medieval in several cases. Pretty ground in reality, in some places. But in the case of engineering? You can have your clockwork lightning powered metal horses and your impossibly complex steam tanks and plenty more.

Including a more efficient and powerful engine that runs on the runoff from the Bugman's Brewery - creators of said impossibly XXXXXX dwarf alcohol.

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[Fouredged Sword]

Took me a while to make an argument.

Freddy's PoV can be a case of unreliable narrator. The fastest example of this is the Starbrook Trade Package built to take money away from the Trident and Stirland. Freddy thought the complications were incredibly obvious, and even once Stephan and Ortrud displayed ignorance of the matter, Freddy still didn't doubt they could see it. A recent example I'm aware of is when Freddy took a look at Wissenland's Elector Coutness, and failed to notice she was doing some impressive physical training.




Now, as far as i can tell this should be a wrong conclusion Freddy made. The druchii did in fact know they were discovered by at least the beginning of the current year, or within that first week. The druchii have access to what is happening on Ulthuan, Ulthuan knew what was going on at the start of this year. Not to mention the imperial rumor mill was not quiet about the druchii incoming either. The druchii know that Ostland and Nordland were expecting them. The druchii did also know about the dwarf built wall of Salkalten.

If the druchii weren't expecting Salkalten to be a hard fight, why did they send two Black Arks if the break the wall strategy was the main plan for the druchii, instead of a supplement? Two Black Arks on one target is unusual for the druchii.

Two Black Arks is overkill for a punitive campaign, unless they expected actual trouble and greater issues. Regardless of why, the druchii did not at all underestimate Ostland.

I'm not seeing an explanation for why the Druchii didn't throw everything on the weakest link, smash that one quickly, then move onto Salkalten inside a month or three. The Druchii knew they lost the element of surprise. Ostland prepped itself to deal with any coastal attack on Salkalten, and you do not put two Black Arks on one target even for a punitive expedition if you think it'll be a simple smash and break. Nordland is obviously a weaker target than Ostland, strategically to gain anything from this campaign the druchii need a win, to do that they need to commit at least something of quality into the Druchii fleet, which they did not do. Or maybe the druchii fleet was reduced in quality from Eldyra leading an attack?


They really are not capable of running away. It takes time to move the Black Arks, to charge them up/drag them away, and get them moving. The druchii invested Two Black Arks into striking Salkalten. One Black Ark is enough to terrify any coast. Two Black Arks is overkill for a human coastline, much less one settlement. The druchii are also prideful elves, to acknowledge in any form they will at all need to use TWO BLACK ARKS, speaks volumes about their personal comittment to hurting Ostland. In canon the druchii used no fewer than five Black Arks to blockade the hold of Barak Varr The druchii of this expedition cannot leave until Salkalten suffers some form of defeat.

The reason we told our naval forces not to engage was because engagement was suicide, and would generate no gain. Those Black Arks can run over ships in their path, no need for a Black Ark to do anything but ram the enemy fleet to win. And our ships would be outmanoeuvred by the Black Arks, or be anhilated by dhar beams unless the Black Arks were sitting ducks letting us hit them.

I realize I don't know how a Black Ark moves. I imagine it might be difficult for the druchii to retreat if 90% of their magic users are dead, or heavily occupied in the magical fight. Or does a Black Ark not need any form of magic ability to move?


We're warhammer fantasy. That means that "real life physics are not completely applicable here in this quest". And yeah, this has come up before. QM can you add the info into the Q&A?

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Yes, I get magic is in everything in warhammer, but consider my post more a segue into suggesting wood and coal gas as a fuel source rather than an argument in of itself.

As an interesting note, our wife and daughters are both sources of refrigeration, and so we could even see magitech gas liquification, where volatile gas is liquified using pressure and cold. I could absolutely see our engineer ice witch daughter figure that out mucking about with volatile gasses and her magic.

 

[Marlin]

Yes, I get magic is in everything in warhammer, but consider my post more a segue into suggesting wood and coal gas as a fuel source rather than an argument in of itself.

As an interesting note, our wife and daughters are both sources of refrigeration, and so we could even see magitech gas liquification, where volatile gas is liquified using pressure and cold. I could absolutely see our engineer ice witch daughter figure that out mucking about with volatile gasses and her magic.

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My bad, sorry.

Um, it's an interesting idea, I don't know how our engineers would start investigating that tech though. Or when they would bring it up to Freddy, Freddy has delayed one research project for 17 Turns so far, and the Vapor Cycler project has been delayed for some time (7 turns). Unless we can cut down on our research backlog somewhat, it would be smart of our enigneers to not suggest anything newly divergent until we clean up the delayed stuff.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

My bad, sorry.

Um, it's an interesting idea, I don't know how our engineers would start investigating that tech though. Or when they would bring it up to Freddy, Freddy has delayed one research project for 17 Turns so far, and the Vapor Cycler project has been delayed for some time. Unless we can cut down on our research backlog somewhat, it would be smart of our enigneers to not suggest anything newly divergent until we clean up the delayed stuff.

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"My lord, I would like some funding to investigate better methods of producing charcoal. I know it sounds mundane, but it could reduce the cost of charcoal in the region if successful, and that means less people freeze in the winter."

"Sir, about that charcoal oven project. Turns out we can make vapor fuel as a byproduct. Thought you would like to know."

 

[Marlin]

"My lord, I would like some funding to investigate better methods of producing charcoal. I know it sounds mundane, but it could reduce the cost of charcoal in the region if successful, and that means less people freeze in the winter."

"Sir, about that charcoal oven project. Turns out we can make vapor fuel as a byproduct. Thought you would like to know."

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That sounds like something our engineers would never suggest not suggest in the near future though. They are a war college of engineering, Their main purpose is to create weapons for the empire. Anything that is not a weapon, finds itself delayed by a significant time span on the research bench. The seed drill was fast, but Anna did all the research on that.

I would love more non-weapons techs (Soup Tank! for logistics benefits, no more military rations, our army morale will finally rise!). I'm not optimistic that non-weapon techs will be suggested by our engineers unless they do what Anna did, and complete the research on their own time, then submit the final product to Freddy. Or we clear the research backlog first, then they suggest some non-weapon techs.

Edit: There's still the Taal and Rhya tech development conflict ball we got incoming to handle. A whole area we can't improve with tech due to religious issues.

 

[torroar]

Am running errands, so short typing onehandphone

Mallus Alcoholic Vapor actually very good, not very bad like said. Slightly more better than standard Mallus water boiler, which work very good for dwarfs for dreadnought ironclad gyrocopter rune guardian steampunk clockwork

Why?

Cause Mallus tech say work good. Maybe other wood gas stuff also possible, but not necessarily that much better who say how good vapor last powers good time yeah?

 

[Malevolo]

Am running errands, so short typing onehandphone

Mallus Alcoholic Vapor actually very good, not very bad like said. Slightly more better than standard Mallus water boiler, which work very good for dwarfs for dreadnought ironclad gyrocopter rune guardian steampunk clockwork

Why?

Cause Mallus tech say work good. Maybe other wood gas stuff also possible, but not necessarily that much better who say how good vapor last powers good time yeah?

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Why not make wood beer then?

Sawdust brandy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[iggyfan]

Why not make wood beer then?

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Because wood alcohol is toxic of course.

 

[Malevolo]

Because wood alcohol is toxic of course.

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Say that to the Ogres

 

[Fouredged Sword]

Because wood alcohol is toxic of course.

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I bet dwarven rangers drink it. The only reason the rest of the dwarves wouldn't would be that wood is not common under mountains.

 

[MightbeaMimic]

Took me a while to make an argument.

Freddy's PoV can be a case of unreliable narrator. The fastest example of this is the Starbrook Trade Package built to take money away from the Trident and Stirland. Freddy thought the complications were incredibly obvious, and even once Stephan and Ortrud displayed ignorance of the matter, Freddy still didn't doubt they could see it. A recent example I'm aware of is when Freddy took a look at Wissenland's Elector Coutness, and failed to notice she was doing some impressive physical training.




Now, as far as i can tell this should be a wrong conclusion Freddy made. The druchii did in fact know they were discovered by at least the beginning of the current year, or within that first week. The druchii have access to what is happening on Ulthuan, Ulthuan knew what was going on at the start of this year. Not to mention the imperial rumor mill was not quiet about the druchii incoming either. The druchii know that Ostland and Nordland were expecting them. The druchii did also know about the dwarf built wall of Salkalten.

If the druchii weren't expecting Salkalten to be a hard fight, why did they send two Black Arks if the break the wall strategy was the main plan for the druchii, instead of a supplement? Two Black Arks on one target is unusual for the druchii.

Two Black Arks is overkill for a punitive campaign, unless they expected actual trouble and greater issues. Regardless of why, the druchii did not at all underestimate Ostland.

I'm not seeing an explanation for why the Druchii didn't throw everything on the weakest link, smash that one quickly, then move onto Salkalten inside a month or three. The Druchii knew they lost the element of surprise. Ostland prepped itself to deal with any coastal attack on Salkalten, and you do not put two Black Arks on one target even for a punitive expedition if you think it'll be a simple smash and break. Nordland is obviously a weaker target than Ostland, strategically to gain anything from this campaign the druchii need a win, to do that they need to commit at least something of quality into the Druchii fleet, which they did not do. Or maybe the druchii fleet was reduced in quality from Eldyra leading an attack?


They really are not capable of running away. It takes time to move the Black Arks, to charge them up/drag them away, and get them moving. The druchii invested Two Black Arks into striking Salkalten. One Black Ark is enough to terrify any coast. Two Black Arks is overkill for a human coastline, much less one settlement. The druchii are also prideful elves, to acknowledge in any form they will at all need to use TWO BLACK ARKS, speaks volumes about their personal comittment to hurting Ostland. In canon the druchii used no fewer than five Black Arks to blockade the hold of Barak Varr The druchii of this expedition cannot leave until Salkalten suffers some form of defeat.

The reason we told our naval forces not to engage was because engagement was suicide, and would generate no gain. Those Black Arks can run over ships in their path, no need for a Black Ark to do anything but ram the enemy fleet to win. And our ships would be outmanoeuvred by the Black Arks, or be anhilated by dhar beams unless the Black Arks were sitting ducks letting us hit them.

I realize I don't know how a Black Ark moves. I imagine it might be difficult for the druchii to retreat if 90% of their magic users are dead, or heavily occupied in the magical fight. Or does a Black Ark not need any form of magic ability to move?


We're warhammer fantasy. That means that "real life physics are not completely applicable here in this quest". And yeah, this has come up before. QM can you add the info into the Q&A?

Click to shrink...

Okay, I'll have to make this quick because I' on my break at work.

Why only 2 fleets at nordland and no Ark? Because they underestimated Kessel and Nordland. As said previously he tends to get overshadowed by the other two members of the Trident where martial affairs are concerned. In addition to this they didn't know he had essentially a military alliance with the wood elves in his province, bringing a second major force to the defence of Nordland.

Why not bring the fleets to Salkalten? Because they thought 2 Arks was enough to overpower us, as frankly it should have been without the wood elf mages (again a surprise), and the warning on their tactics from a handmaiden with centuries of experience fighting them, if not millenia. Hell, even with those two things, the fighting has basically just begun. It's still entirely possible we lose here and Freddy dies/the population of the coast is enslaved/ etc.

Can they retreat? Honestly the answer is probably yes. It might take them some time but if they retreat a reasonable proportion of their forces into the Arks then the chances of us being able to take them are near 0 so they have time.

Will they retreat? Maybe? Bear in mind one of the leaders that brought them there is dead. If we give them a good reason to want to run away then it's plausible they end up killing the Sorceress and blaming everything on their leaders. Hell, maybe they capture her and hand her over to Malekith. I figure they have ways of imprisoning magic users.

Why did we not engage with the fleet? Because they'd be wiped out, yes. Notably this would be them engaging 2 fully intact Arks that are completely mobile and fully manned and armed with either no or limited support from the ground. IIRC the plan was to bring the fleets in to attack once they're grounded, hence why the slayers were celebrating

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

@torroar

Rereading Lovely Laurelorn for the hundredth time, was the Waywatcher Frederick gave an insulting pep talk to also Kerillian?

Shaking your head, you find an oddly familiar face on the side. It is one of the waywatchers from Cythral, or rather one that happened to be at Cythral. Now that you see her again, you recognize the crest on the clasp of her hood and cloak as being from Talsyn.

Pursing your lips, you shrug and amble a few steps over.

(Crude Motivations: 76+5=81/100)

"You all right there, elf?"

She twitches and then turns to you, black eyes wide before she blinks rapidly and refocuses slightly on you.

"I am fine, you glaikit mayfly. Focus on yourself, you'll be one of the first run down when the Savage Hunt comes for us all."

"Proud words from someone shaking in their boots."

She goes still and then turns slowly on you.

"What did you say to me?"

"Just saying. I expected more from the Asrai," you shrug before jerking your head towards the Oak. "The bloody Oak of Ages is behind you, the Queen supporting you all through it. You've got the Sisters of Twilight right over there, three dragons, and none other than Araloth the Bold with a plan as your leader."

You may or may not have been projecting your voice slightly, causing more than a few Asrai to turn gimlet stares on you.

"But I just saw you shivering. Swear I heard some of you crying early when he blew the horn. What happened to the pride of the elves? The strength of the Asrai? What a showing," you nod at the crest she bears. "Of course, can't all be as magically mighty as Argwylon-,"

A series of hisses goes up, but you still see a handful of Asrai beneath an Argwylon banner perk up, their worried looks becoming proud sneers as they straighten their backs.

"Or as stubbornly tough as Anymr-,"

The weary warriors of that place blink rapidly and then reaffirm their grips on their bows.

"But hey, what's Talsyn known for anyway?"

The waywatcher growls at you, hands going to the hilt of short but deadly looking daggers in her belt.

"I would be more than happy to show you," she snarls.

"Great!" You respond brightly and point out towards the slowly marching Savage Hunt. "Please do. I'd much rather be stupefied by your excellence in battle than watch as you get scared."

She blinks at you, the non sequitur unexpected.

"Yeah, it sucks that they've got a confused Kurnous and a flippant murderous bitch what waited around until you were at your weakest to strike," you admit. "But come on. Don't you want to show them that even at your weakest you're still strong? Isn't Ariel still the Avatar of Isha? So you've got at least Her looking out for you, and going by them," you wave towards the wardancers who are staring at you, "Loec too. So, two to two."

"You…you dare come up to me, start insulting-,"

"Oh like your people haven't been insulting me every time you open your mouths in my general direction, in every sentence," you snort. "Course, insulting me doesn't matter, because I'm 'just a human', after all. Either way, at least you're angry at me right now, rather than scared of them."

Her mouth drops open at you even as you stride back over to Eldyra, who is also looking at you with something akin to apprehension and fear. Sunweaver has just put her hands to her face for a moment, not even looking up when she passes you the emptied flask back.

Click to shrink...

 

[torroar]

Behold!

Mine own words, with the addition of bolding.

I like all the characters though, even Kerillian, though some do not care for her. Enough to put her in Lovely Laurelorn at least.

Click to shrink...

She was not named, but is the elf in the Laurelorn interludes that, as mentioned in the update, Eldyra finally blows up on because the Elf was poking at them for names, and then tried to play it off when asked in turn. A reference to Vermintide dialogue where it is suggested that she 'has many names, but Kerillian functions for this circumstance', but later mocking from either the spirit of Constant Drachenfels or Bel'akor himself in-game identifiers her as Kerillian proper. She is prickly, she is prideful (immensely) in her skills, but has repeatedly shown a weird amount of empathy and kindness, it's just wrapped up in her being acerbic in the extreme. It's also noted that she was gloomy and vaguely derogatory in the first game, but by the second when she's actually come to see the rest of the U5 as friends, she's a lot more prickly, insulting, etc. but it's basically just very sharp edged banter. Not that she explains that part. This was referenced in the update when Frederick fired back at her, and she instantly relaxed a bit.

Click to shrink...

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Behold!

Mine own words, with the addition of bolding.

Click to shrink...

I know she was the one Eldyra blew up at, yeah. Hence why I said "also Kerillian?". I just am not a hundred percent sure if she is also the one Freddy talked to to distract from her fear with anger and pride.

Not sure if black eyes are common or not. Freddy only identified her by Eldyra's talk, not his own (if she is the same one)

 

[torroar]

Ah, that part. Yes, that was also her. S'what was meant to be implied by the 'oddly familiar' part.

The Black Eyes thing, as in her having no visible pupil and just two pitch black orbs, is part of a general weirdness surrounding elves as depicted in Warhammer overall. In some sources, they're specifically meant to be alien in appearance, gem-like almost, but are not portrayed in minis and such like that. Age of Reckoning, the MMO, did it the former way. Total War Warhammer did it the other way.

And some lore supposedly has it that her eyes are like that because she was cursed for what she did in Athel Loren, but sources on that are hard to track down.

Way it plays out in DoDA is thus:

Overall, it is not an unknown phoenomenon, but at the same time, it is rare. And those who do possess such eyes are seen as more touched by the Fey and the Forest Spirits than others, or perhaps marked out by the influence of the Gods for some unknown purpose that could simply be whimsy. Either way, those with such eyes are often just a bit 'off' compared to other Wood Elves, for one reason or another. Notably, handfuls of such eyed elves have ended up in the true Wild Riders/Sisters of the Thorn as well, not overwhelming the others, but a notable minority nonetheless.

That's how I'm squaring the triangle they gave me with the multiple circle holes offered.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Ah, that part. Yes, that was also her. S'what was meant to be implied by the 'oddly familiar' part.

The Black Eyes thing, as in her having no visible pupil and just two pitch black orbs, is part of a general weirdness surrounding elves as depicted in Warhammer overall. In some sources, they're specifically meant to be alien in appearance, gem-like almost, but are not portrayed in minis and such like that. Age of Reckoning, the MMO, did it the former way. Total War Warhammer did it the other way.

And some lore supposedly has it that her eyes are like that because she was cursed for what she did in Athel Loren, but sources on that are hard to track down.

Way it plays out in DoDA is thus:

Overall, it is not an unknown phoenomenon, but at the same time, it is rare. And those who do possess such eyes are seen as more touched by the Fey and the Forest Spirits than others, or perhaps marked out by the influence of the Gods for some unknown purpose that could simply be whimsy. Either way, those with such eyes are often just a bit 'off' compared to other Wood Elves, for one reason or another. Notably, handfuls of such eyed elves have ended up in the true Wild Riders/Sisters of the Thorn as well, not overwhelming the others, but a notable minority nonetheless.

That's how I'm squaring the triangle they gave me with the multiple circle holes offered.

Click to shrink...

I see, I didn't know there was a thing in Elf society behind the odd eyes. Cool.

But in hindsight yes, the implication should have been enough. Sorry about that, didn't want to make assumptions; I do like the lorebuilding it prompted.