Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Genon said:
I mean, it would be one thing if it was merely the Rumor Mill saying this, but people even in positions of power, sometimes even other Elector Counts, seem to keep falling for it, even though they know for a fact things like Karak Ungor happened. People who saw Frederick buy the Soup Tank and come out with the Vapor Tank years later somehow keep operating on the assumption that he's not an incredibly savvy politician just like themselves. At this point, I honestly have to wonder if this stereotype is something that Hagrid and Co. have deliberately cultivated, kept going, and let fester, just because it works to our advantage so often. Which I could understand and even support, honestly. I just have trouble believing it's still happening organically.
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The Soup Tank 'scam' is pretty understandable as Freddy being 'a mad drunkard brute who stumbles around babbling if it weren't for his wife handling things'. There is a strong Halfling prejudice in the Empire of Man as nothing more than those people who live safe, ordinary lives, and run from fights, or are thieves. On top of that Nuln's Engineering school has not been able to replicate the Steam Tanks, nobody would assume Fredddy could do that with the Halfling's Steam Tank. Above all of this, Ostland only recently produced the Vapor Tank. There might be some that would go "Ah! Ha! That's why Freddy bought the halfling's tank." Others are not going to make that connection unless told it, or connect that Freddy helped build the Steam tanks, and that Freddy didn't throw "Make me a version of the Steam Tanks" at his engineers to create, believing Ostland's engineers alone being the root cause of the Vapor Tanks creation.

There are people intelligent enough to notice that Freddy has turned Ostland into a stronger province because Freddy is in charge. Although if they notice Freddy is intelligent, opportunistic, or lucky, is another matter. There is no denying that Ostland's success is a benefit of Freddy succeeding to use his Martial score when needed.
Zacharais? Martial matter. Although it should be noted that Kattarin showed up because Natasha was hurt. Reulted in safer Ostland.
Nordland and the formation of the Trident? Bonds of battle. Resulted in friendly forces that will help benefit Ostland.
Karak Ungor? Martial matter. Resulted in dwarf benefits.
Battle of Three Armies? Martial matter. Resulted in prestige boost.
Marienburg? Not a Martial Matter.

Freddy rarely gets anything attributed to him outside of combat. He did a Law Reform recently, but that needs time to shine on the results. And the Empire Rumor Mills haven't had Freddy do anything much noteworthy in them since around Karak Ungor. Well, there was the Holders of The Shore thing, plus Sabine marrying Magnus thing. Karak Ungor very much was Freddy is fighting, Freddy is knocked out, then Freddy is adventuring with the High King of the dawi and fighting some more.

I suppose the seed drill might count, but that's credited to Anna von Hohenzollern. There were the "military exercises" Ostland participated in.

Edit: And cause I forgot to mention this, I'm pretty sure the rumor mills do not mention Freddy obtained the Soup Tank.
 
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Czes said:
The main point is a difference in cultural perception. We know that Frederick is incredibly smart. Not just because of his Learning stat, but because of what he did with it. Learning several languages, engineering, etc.

That's not how intelligence was defined in medieval times. Intelligence was tightly bound to conduct. Behaving within the norms of society and adhering and honoring them. Frederick doesn't do that. At all. Never did. It's not just his lack of diplomacy, but also his (initial) lack of piety that played into it.

Not believing in gods (or a god) is just not done. It's certifiably retarded. Warhammer or real (medieval) world.

Honor, conduct and (partly) intelligence (at least for nobles) was not defined by creating new things, but by adhering to existing rules better than everyone else. A master scriptwriter was not supposed to find a new innovative way of writing, but to adhere to the set standards in the best way possible. That's not bad, it's just really different from today's standards.

Frederick very much adheres to modern standards. He's innovative, questions almost everyone and everything and deals in facts. That's not how these societies are. Not because they are worse or anything. Just a very different mindset.

Granted, Warhammer is a fantasy world, so a purely medieval world view does not apply to it. That's why Frederick is also respected. Especially in regards to his martial deeds. Common folk and nobles alike think that he's absolutely insane, but they can't deny that he dragged Ostland out of its insignificance. He just trampled over 1500 years of traditions whilst doing so.

So what if we had done this without our martial deeds? Nobles and commoners alike would have crucified us. Doesn't even need the Witch Hunters.

And that's why Frederick is seen that way. Because he not openly gambled with his own life, but also with his family's position to rule Ostland. It's his prestige that saved him and made him untouchable.
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And if we drive off the druchii /capture a Black Ark, we'll essentially become a chuck Norris meme. Unassailable.

That sounds like a position I want to be in.
 
Marlin said:
There are people intelligent enough to notice that Freddy has turned Ostland into a stronger province because Freddy is in charge
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And Sabine's father, Adrian Nassau, actually noticed this quite early on. It really was a good indication of just how good he is at finding good opportunities for his family.

torroar said:
This is serious, my daughter. The Hohenzollerns cannot be underestimated," he shook a finger at her. "Look at what they have accomplished since Frederick took the helm!"
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Lerac said:
And Sabine's father, Adrian Nassau, actually noticed this quite early on. It really was a good indication of just how good he is at finding good opportunities for his family.
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look no one said the Nassau were stupid we have been grabbing gold hand over fist since we establihed the SCHOOL. but question does the Screaming Bull have and In-law siblings i can't recall one way or the other or if it was never mentioned
 
Lerac said:
And Sabine's father, Adrian Nassau, actually noticed this quite early on. It really was a good indication of just how good he is at finding good opportunities for his family.
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Also has something to do with their position as merchants. Successful ones at that. Those people tend to be a lot more practical and see things outside the box.

It's one of the reasons why Narienburg doesn't like us and why we don't like them. We know exactly what theycare doing and theyvcan comprehend that we are moving away from their mercantile influence.
 
I've just had a thought. This whole invasion could be a political coup for Stephan. Not just because it lets him remind his nobles of his martial chops, but because of the Eonir. He can point to the Eonir as a major factor of them being able to crush the Druchi here, helping to justify things like "giving up land" (even if it was land he wasn't actually using, not like the nobles actually cared about that detail) to them.

"This is why being friends with the forest people is a much better idea than trying to take their land, which we couldn't even use that well"
 
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Stephen9001 said:
I've just had a thought. This whole invasion could be a political coup for Stephan. Not just because it lets him remind his nobles of his martial chops, but because of the Eonir. He can point to the Eonir as a major factor of them being able to crush the Druchi here, helping to justify things like "giving up land" (even if it was land he wasn't actually using, not like the nobles actually cared about that detail) to them.

"This is why being friends with the forest people is a much better idea than trying to take their land, which we couldn't even use that well"
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Oh, tell me about it. Stephan's biggest problem is that he hasn't had a visible "win" in years. He's extremely competent, but he's the least prestigious of the Trident, and has to do everything the normal, complicated way rather than relying on sheer prestige to paper over the blowback of his actions. Not only that, his most prestigious (read: exciting) accomplishments were with the help of Frederick and Ortrud (such as the war against Gruber), and people have short enough memories that I suspect they (mostly Frederick) largely overshadow Stefan's involvement.

And then a massive force of Druchi corsairs come and he wipes them off the map with minimal casualties while maintaining an alliance with one of his province's former enemies. That's a prestigious win, right there. Of course, if we win in Ostland and truly defeat two Black Arks, there's always the risk of Frederick's accomplishments yet again overshadowing him, but only in terms of scale; this is a victory that the Kessels unambiguously pulled off without major help from another province (the Ostermark contingent was there, but got left in the dust due to the sheer amount of ass the Nordlanders were kicking), and while the Eonir contributed and then some, Stephan definitely pulled his weight here and his planning and clever tactics (such as filling all the villages with his own cavalry to slaughter foolhardy Druchii who expected a quick slave run) are pretty much the main reason the casualties weren't much worse than they were.

The Empire may focus more on Frederick doing the impossible yet again, but if Stephan plays his cards right, the Nordland nobility should get a wake-up call from this, especially as Ulricans who value prowess in battle.
 
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Genon said:
Oh, tell me about it. Stephan's biggest problem is that he hasn't had a visible "win" in years. He's extremely competent, but he's the least prestigious of the Trident, and has to do everything the normal, complicated way rather than relying on sheer prestige to paper over the backblow of his actions. Not only that, his most prestigious (read: exciting) accomplishments were with the help of Frederick and Ortrud (such as the war against Gruber), and people have short enough memories that I suspect they (mostly Frederick) largely overshadow Stefan's involvement.
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Well, we can hope the win he got was long ago enough that he can pull Winged Hussars for our asses and save us back :V
 
Genon said:
We can only hope.
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Even if he can't help with the black arks I still hope he rushes to our side with an army of ulricians and wood elves. Even if we stop the Black Arks cold (and he has no reason to think we can, much less will) we still need to deal with the assumed beast tide that is going to land on us in our moment of weakness, and he could absolutely get to Ostland in time to help with THAT.
 
@torroar
Random question: Out of all the alcohols in Ostland, which is universally known as the worst? And I'm talking about an alcohol, vintage, brewery etc that has a reputation as the worst and a name people can identify, not just some nameless swill found in the seediest parts of Wulfenburg.
 
Genon said:
@torroar
Random question: Out of all the alcohols in Ostland, which is universally known as the worst? And I'm talking about an alcohol, vintage, brewery etc that has a reputation as the worst and a name people can identify, not just some nameless swill found in the seediest parts of Wulfenburg.
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considering the sheer levels of diversity and competitiveness of the Ostland alcohol market ,I don't think bad brands exist , either your good thus can exist as recognizable name in the market or not and you become the nameless swill found in the seediest parts of Wulfenburg
 
Doesn't properly exist. As in the power of CAPITALISM ensures it does not last long, thank Handrich.

Any brewery that has the 'worst' reputation will either improve itself or fail entirely as people turn to the sheer variety of everything else they have on stock. There is no such equivalent as a 'so bad but at least it's cheap' because 'it's cheap' still covers a vast swathe of offered types and vintages, and if you're going below that point to the scale of rotgut from a bucket and the backwash and spills that go on rail mats which can be twisted out into a dirty glass...that doesn't really count as you noted.

If it's reputation comes from anything other than quality, such as due to sheer underpaying of workers, or illegal additives i.e. putting warpstone or poison or whatever in there, you get a nice visit either from some the Witch Hunters or potentially even some Nassau Representatives.

What happens after that is on the owners of the brewery or the like.
 
torroar said:
GM Note: Why? Because I can.

Alcohols Available In Ostland
​

  1. Dwarven Brews - Widely available, ranging from the weakest to Bugman's Best, as well as Bugman's New. A recent addition is also Bolgan's Finest, a brew crafted purely for the enjoyment of dwarfs, knocking almost any non-dwarf clean off their feet from one mug alone.
  2. Asur Wines - The High Elves have been trading through Marienburg for quite some time, more than long enough for their wines to become - if not commonly drunk, then commonly known. Expensive, but often with incredible complexity and flavor.
  3. Asrai and Eonir Wines - As a result of trade facilitated through Nordland and Laurelorn, wines of the Eonir and Asrai have become available amongst those willing to pay the rather high prices. A pure luxury drink, for only the most discerning and wealthy drinkers.
  4. Bretonnian Wines - Sparsely available. Still available for those who want to taste the alcohol they drink and not get drunk nearly as quickly. For the discerning drinker with a wide palette.​
  5. Bretonnian Brandy - Increasingly available. One of the most beloved spirits anywhere. Perhaps the oldest liquor made by Humans in the Old World, it is made from fermented grape wine, and bottled most often in glass or clay.​
  6. Ostander Ostka - An alcohol only a few decades old made first from potatoes and then grains, a powerful drink rivaling the popular Kislevite drink known as Kvas.​
  7. Imperial Beers, Bitters, Ales, Wines, etc. - Widely available from across the Empire even in the smallest and poorest settlements and hamlets in Ostland.​
  8. Arabian Wines - Sparsely available, little bought. More sugary than Bretonnian fare, yet is most certainly wine, making it a bit of an oxymoron of a choice for many. Thus, not very popular.​
  9. Albionese Whiskey - Incredibly rare, few traders ever make it too and from Albion these days. Nevertheless, those who enjoy whiskey enjoy it quite a bit. Now even more rare and essentially irreplaceable with recent events, each bottle has shot up in value due to its extreme rarity.​
  10. Albionese Albix - A single malt whiskey, made in Albion, one of the most potent drinks around. Incredibly rare now that Albion seems to have disappeared from the oceans, making each bottle that much more valuable.​
  11. Estalian Wines and Spirits - Sparsely available at the best of times in the Empire.​
  12. Tilean Wines, Spirits, Beers - Availability has recently grown very low due to the recent famines striking the nation.​
  13. Kislevite Kvas - A powerful drink, mostly only made in Kislev with a kick to it amongst human drinks only rivaled perhaps by Ostland Ostka or Talabecland Thunder-Water. Made from malt, rye, or wheat flour and boiling water.​
  14. Kislevite Koumiss - A rarer but stronger Kislevite drink of Ungol origin, with its sister-drink kvas being more widespread. Noted to even surprise some dwarfs with its strength. Made from mare's milk.​
  15. Talabecland Thunder-Water - Only became available recently. Effectively a thousand different kinds of 'moon-shine', due to those being the supposed best conditions for creating such brews in the wilderness, each personalized to the designs of each maker.​
  16. Cathayan Drinks - Unavailable currently.​
  17. Ind Drinks - Unavailable currently.​
  18. Norscan Mead - Unavailable currently, normally available from Marienburg offices but no longer as Marienburg turns its eyes away from Ostland.​
  19. Nehekharan Beer​

* = Bugman's New is brewed exclusively at the Bugman Brewery located in Ostland, and only began production an eye blink ago by dwarven standards. Still, it's being brewed by Bugman, and tastes just as amazing as his old brew. Potentially better, as if all the experience of wandering all those years has only added to the drink.
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Looking at this list it look like Arabian Wines is probably the least popular
 
torroar said:
Doesn't properly exist. As in the power of CAPITALISM ensures it does not last long, thank Handrich.

Any brewery that has the 'worst' reputation will either improve itself or fail entirely as people turn to the sheer variety of everything else they have on stock. There is no such equivalent as a 'so bad but at least it's cheap' because 'it's cheap' still covers a vast swathe of offered types and vintages, and if you're going below that point to the scale of rotgut from a bucket and the backwash and spills that go on rail mats which can be twisted out into a dirty glass...that doesn't really count as you noted.

If it's reputation comes from anything other than quality, such as due to sheer underpaying of workers, or illegal additives i.e. putting warpstone or poison or whatever in there, you get a nice visit either from some the Witch Hunters or potentially even some Nassau Representatives.

What happens after that is on the owners of the brewery or the like.
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Look, I don't care if the brewery still exists or not, a barrel of the Worst Ale In the World has got to have been made at *some* point, right? :p

Surely there must be at least one cask out there that anyone with sense avoids, whose terribleness is spoken of in legend, and the brewer who concocted that ale be cursed by all the drinkers on Mallus!
 
At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if there is an actually competition to decide which version of Bugmans is better. Original or New.
 
Genon said:
Look, I don't care if the brewery still exists or not, a barrel of the Worst Ale In the World has got to have been made at *some* point, right? :p

Surely there must be at least one cask out there that anyone with sense avoids, whose terribleness is spoken of in legend, and the brewer who concocted that ale be cursed by all the drinkers on Mallus!
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He just said no, it doesn't. Not as far as Ostland is concerned.
 
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Genon said:
Look, I don't care if the brewery still exists or not, a barrel of the Worst Ale In the World has got to have been made at *some* point, right? :p

Surely there must be at least one cask out there that anyone with sense avoids, whose terribleness is spoken of in legend, and the brewer who concocted that ale be cursed by all the drinkers on Mallus!
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It likely isn't a brewery. This isn't a modern economy where mass production is king. You only produce thousands of barrels of something a year because it's good enough to be worth transporting and trading. Bad brew isn't. It's not going to be some big label. It's going to be some innkeeper of a local town's not particularly great brew, but hey you don't have to pay a trader to haul it all the way to your tiny village. It's going to be uncle Bob's rotgut that he doesn't know to toss the top cut of the still from and is as much ethanol as alcohol. Anything you haul to some town or another has to be better than whatever they can produce locally, and so there is a minimum standard that traders will even bother to carry.

It's going to be local is what I am saying, and in someplace that "local" doesn't have many options.
 
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Genon said:
Look, I don't care if the brewery still exists or not, a barrel of the Worst Ale In the World has got to have been made at *some* point, right? :p

Surely there must be at least one cask out there that anyone with sense avoids, whose terribleness is spoken of in legend, and the brewer who concocted that ale be cursed by all the drinkers on Mallus!
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Of course there is!

The owner/creator got a visit from some friendly folks in wide-brimmed hats and trench coats because so many people got sick from it they thought it was a Rot-Crow plot.

Why the fuck would anybody want to remember that?
 
We know what the worst (non lethal, non tainted) brew on Mallus is from a pure drinking experience perspective. We know who brews it - Gazul. It has other virtues than quaffability. Pale imitations have been brewed in Ostland but neither they nor the original are for sale.
 
Thors_Alumni said:
At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if there is an actually competition to decide which version of Bugmans is better. Original or New.
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From what I remember of a PM conversation with the GM I had while writing the "Breweries and Distilleries of Ostland" omake, he noted that certain exceptionally traditionalist dwarfs consider Bugman's New to be a slightly inferior product, due to different water and soil conditions of Ostland producing a product with a slightly different taste.
 
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iggyfan said:
From what I remember of a PM conversation with the GM I had while writing the "Breweries and Distilleries of Ostland" omake, he noted that certain exceptionally traditionalist dwarfs consider Bugman's New to be a slightly inferior product, due to different water and soil conditions of Ostland.
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The other thing to note is that this sort of thing goes up in value as it ages. Bugman's New is by definition newer than Bugman's Old. That alone makes Bugman's Old "better" in that it is older and more aged.
 
Something funny about Freddy's reputation is that he is nore popular amongst the elder races, specifically dwarfs and wood elves.
 
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