Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Zrayz10 said:
You know speaking of dwarf engineers I think the reason dwarfs were so dismissive of the steam tank is probably because they already tried the same idea and it never went anywhere:

Dwarf Juggernaut

Probably they abandoned it cause either the boiler kept exploding or they couldn't give it enough armor to make it worthwhile without it slowing to a snails crawl. With a gyrocopter armor isn't as big a deal because being airborne makes hits less likely, while a steamship can more easily carry armor. That or the conservative engineers said nope.
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Or maybe the dwarves never got around to building a tank equivalent because it was umgi madness and hurting dawi pride to admit they would learn anything from humanity when the dawi have had their own ironclad ships years before the first steam tank? There is also the logistics to consider. Greenskins, ratmen, and just anything not a squishy human would laugh in the face of a tank. Any location to resupply the needed fuel and ammunition to a tank is going to be a logistical nightmare for the ever dwindling dawi. Even if the dawi only kept any tanks to a hold, the foes they face would make a tank not really much better than a dwarf cannon mounted on a wall for defense. The empire of man only uses the steam tanks on special occasions, and centuries after the original designer has died the empire does not make more. The Karaz Angkor was on the decline, always under threat, and every dwarf master is a living treasure trove of skill. Any risk to the life of a dwarf master would be a major risk, if every tank would require master engineers.... better to focus on creating cannons that any student can aim and fire. Than to spend effort on a human idea that as far as the dawi and anyone else can see, is not consistent on the battlefield.

Below is torroar's answer to why the dawi have no steam tank.

torroar said:
Lord knows I'm not Durin, but I'll give it my best shot!

It's a human invention. It would be insulting in the extreme to suggest that the storied dawi engineers would ever be able to learn something, or would need to learn something, from the humans about any major invention. Some of them probably suspect that Leonardo somehow stole the steam technology when he invented it, though I would put him in the brain state as to just theorize and put into practice after observation of dwarf steam stuff in action. There are numerous dwarf engineers in Altdorf and in Nuln, so they've likely been part of the repair and maintenance project for quite some time. So, honestly? I'd say they probably could have by now, but just won't out of principle, stubborn, stubborn principle. And before you say that is bad, stubbornness in the face of bad decisions is just flat out a dwarf trait. You don't see the dwarfs copying the galloper guns in canon, just tut-tutting that the umgi ruined a perfectly good weapon system with their 'modifications'. There isn't a steam-powered horse or otherwise creatures in the dwarf arsenal either.

Also? The ironclads and dreadnoughts, the prime examples of steam power, I'd argue even more so than the gyrocopters? Are essentially giant ocean-based steam tanks, you know? What with the armor, propulsion, and weaponry in certain cases. If the dwarfs had the inclination to do steam tanks, aka ironclads on the land, they probably could - after a few centuries of testing that is. But to do so would suggest that what they have isn't enough, and that is a grave insult indeed for the dawi, yeah? They definitely have the engineering capacity, but the will and the desire are stupendously low. Also, frankly? Not that needed for the most dire of things i.e. tunnel and underground fighting. Those tunnels? Perfectly fit irondrakes and ironbreakers, not necessarily a steam tank, and they have the heavy armor and ranged shooty bang bang in the form of the flame cannons, irondrake guns, thunderers, and quarrelers, etc. Maybe for open-ground fighting, sure, but they have plenty of other things to bring to the fore instead of that.

But yeah, the fact that it was invented by a human, despite its effectiveness or what have you, is certainly a major reason that the vast majority of the engineering guild wouldn't even touch the idea of making their own, while those that might would rather focus on good dwarf-based projects instead. Also, they've seen rat tanks too, which just leaves a sour tank in the mouth as well, from another direction.
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torroar said:
"You've got a good chance, I think, even considering how a lot of the longbeards are angry."

Slowly pulling your hands down your face, you glare at her without any heat.

"How is that then?"

Fenna chuckles, jabbing her thumb as another resounding bang goes off from the engineering section of the camp.

"Those wings? That's not dwarf-related at all. It's greenskin at best, and no dwarf whose heard of a doom diver is going to try and claim relation to it in technology bases."

"And not the soup tank?"

A remarkably rude noise is garbled further by her mask.

"We had steam engine ships on the waters a century before the first steam tank was a glimmer in the eye of a manling," she almost snarls, "By Morgrim's beard I'm tired of men of the Empire acting like they didn't see ironclads sailing past their ports, or heard of a bloody gyrocopter or bomber," she hisses the last few words.
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@torroar does Ostland manufacture it's own gunpowder or does the province import it? If it does import gunpowder would it be possible to locate sources of saltpeter and sulfur after the charcoal action is complete to secure our own production of the stuff for both domestic use and export?
 
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iggyfan said:
@torroar does Ostland manufacture it's own gunpowder or does the province import it? If it does import gunpowder would it be possible to locate sources of saltpeter and sulfur after the charcoal action is complete to secure our own production of the stuff for both domestic use and export?
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Could you imagine if we had to import all the gunpowder we need for the absolutely ridiculous amount of guns and canons we have? We would have been bankrupt A while ago.

Question for anyone that remembers but weren't we also supposed to have the fortune point help us with rolls or an extra action?

I remember we decided something with it back at the end of Laurelorn but I don't have the time to check.
 
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Deathsea22 said:
Question for anyone that remembers but weren't we also supposed to have the fortune point help us with rolls or an extra action?
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The point applies to rolls related to Freddy during the Event Interludes from his POV, and not the main turns (it showed up in Marienburg, I believe? Saw use in Lovely Laurelorn 3). Albion was from Magnus von Hohenzollern and the other trident heirs points of view.
 
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Marlin said:
The point applies to rolls related to Freddy during the Event Interludes from his POV, and not the main turns (it showed up in Marienburg, I believe? Saw use in Lovely Laurelorn 3). Albion was from Magnus von Hohenzollern and the other trident heirs points of view.
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Your right I found what torrer said with the whole fortune point business it's at the top of page 3791 for anyone that's interested.
 
Hmmm, this just came to me but should we inform anyone about Nat and Freddy's new magical emotional bond in general so not seen as negative at all? After all, we were all worried about her Widow blessings being seen as mutations by others too.

Big Magnus is likely to be very understanding at least both of her divine blessings and our recent bond made for marriage since he seen lots of former and knows enough about elf magic not to judge latter.
 
Massgamer said:
Hmmm, this just came to me but should we inform anyone about Nat and Freddy's new magical emotional bond in general so not seen as negative at all? After all, we were all worried about her Widow blessings being seen as mutations by others too.

Big Magnus is likely to be very understanding at least both of her divine blessings and our recent bond made for marriage since he seen lots of former and knows enough about elf magic not to judge latter.
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Nah. It isn't a visible thing. And it's pretty personal.
 
Ostland produces its own black powder. It's yet another reason for the engineer's being more limited in deployable numbers. You've got engineers doing research, you've got engineers in the army, you've got engineers making black powder, you've got engineers doing independent little projects for themselves (see the Tasha interlude when the engineers made little knick nacks for the youngin') and you've got engineers dedicated to production projects for the various materials for Averland, the cannons and guns for sale, etc.
 
Makes me wonder if we can't have actions in future to streamline production of things like black powder or certain simple inventions instead of needing full on engineers to oversea whole process. Assemble line process and such.

Pretty sure the Chaos Dwarfs already do that with their evil industry after all so not totally new idea to setting.
 
Blazblade said:
Hey do you guys think that competition with Nuln could be beneficial in terms of weapon development in the Empire?
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I think so. Traditionally monopolies typically stifle innovation so competition between weapon developers can be beneficial provided they don't undercut the overall security of the empire by sabatoging each others inventions.
 
Marlin said:
Already has, Nuln went traditionalist in gun tech, working hard to refine their designs, part of which is being more reliable. Recently, Nuln engineers became invested in Nuln's steam tanks.
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Could we see repeater weapons, the hellblaster volley gun, and other Nuln weapons produced earlier then in cannon? Which could in turn improve the Empire's military strength?
 
I just hope we see some more really weird stuff popping out of Altdorf. They are the weird tech place in the south. Having three centers of Gunnery will be a great boon for the empire. As well as the half assed second magic academy in Hochland I think? Eventually that will be filled up and we might see more imperial wizards produced.

With Reikland and Middenland being great for general soldiery and the rest of the provinces having their own flair, if we can weather the Beastide without losing to much the Emprie is slated for explosive growth.
 
Does anyone have any ideas for the Electors Meet? Other than speak with Emperor Magnus?

Anything to try and get more cooperation among the electors made possible?

Speak with the stadtholder on the Sudenburg expedition and what they found out (seeing as the rumor mills were silent on the Marienburg expedition)?

Visit Brettonian embassy in Nuln?

Image said:
I just hope we see some more really weird stuff popping out of Altdorf. They are the weird tech place in the south. Having three centers of Gunnery will be a great boon for the empire. As well as the half assed second magic academy in Hochland I think? Eventually that will be filled up and we might see more imperial wizards produced.

With Reikland and Middenland being great for general soldiery and the rest of the provinces having their own flair, if we can weather the Beastide without losing to much the Emprie is slated for explosive growth.
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The Hochland thing is a research station, not a academy.

The market on guns is likely hard for Altdorf to enter. Gunnery is a niche market filled by Nuln and Ostland. Esoteric stuff, like a printing press, sure. Gunnery stuff? Unlikely from Altdorf. Turn 26 Rumor Mill had the printing press, the rumor mill is due an Altdorf invention soon-ish, unless three decades is more in line with the expected timescale on Altdorf achievements.
 
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Blazblade said:
Hey do you guys think that competition with Nuln could be beneficial in terms of weapon development in the Empire?
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Yes. To quote Abbadon from Saturnine:

One elite reeks of hubris, and risks resting on it's laurels. Two elites provoke one another and strive for even finer glory.
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Nuln might be doubling on their traditions of conservativism, but they'll have to engage in at least some form of innovation less they fall behind altogether. Especially since our catalog will have new inventions each and every time, while Nuln's might not, for years.
 
Nuln did make those pistols that was equipped for the calvary and repeater crossbow. So it is not like they are lagging behind innovation.

It more of us going into drunken science whereas they aim for more mundane stuff. Kind of like the tradionalist amd radical engineers of the Dawi.
 
Restalaan said:
Nuln did make those pistols that was equipped for the calvary and repeater crossbow. So it is not like they are lagging behind innovation.

It more of us going into drunken science whereas they aim for more mundane stuff. Kind of like the tradionalist amd radical engineers of the Dawi.
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with the rate we are going, we would be having breach loader in the next two decades

Because of game workshop nuln innovation is fucking slow
 
DAOT said:
with the rate we are going, we would be having breach loader in the next two decades

Because of game workshop nuln innovation is fucking slow
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Kind of, but yeah. Wheellocks are next on the gun progression, and we should reach there in the next two decades. We might need to finish Imperial Organs, Big to get there logically, but we'll get there eventually.
torroar said:
Mmm, well, I'll be honest. Technological overdrive/creep is a major concern of mine, and has been for quite a long time. In my head, the progression goes from matchlocks, to wheellocks, to snaplocks, to snaphaunce, to flintlocks. And while wheel-locks may come about, I really just...I'm very leery of jumping all the way to flintlocks anytime soon. Mallus has weird technological progression, obviously, so I don't necessarily want to go beyond, like, the earliest 1700/1800's in terms of most tech...barring things that are stupendously simple like the road thing you brought up earlier. I acknowledge the possibility that my aversion to such rapid advancement might be going beyond the realm of normal reason, but...I don't know, atm. You've just started on getting really improved matchlocks, and next step will be, for certain, wheellocks. Even if there are examples of it already (dwarfs, most likely), the research for that would be for making them more affordable and cheaper to make. Doomspheres and Deathspinners are extant creations, to be honest, things that shouldn't work IRL but happen to do so on Mallus, same as the lightning horse and pure steam warfare gyrocopters n'such. I don't necessarily want to use them as examples for 'cost' in terms of materials or otherwise, right now. I don't even want to think about percussion caps or the like right now.

Well, we have multiple examples of 'better-than-steel' things in-universe. You've got something called 'truesteel', which is quite clearly something other than 'just steel', in use by the High Elves. Harnesses of the stuff for dragons in Caledor, as well as an entire drawbridge made of the stuff near Vaul's Anvil. Introduced in TWW1 and 2, are the possibility of something known as 'puresteel' crossbows for dwarf quarrelers, where the wooden stock is replaced entirely by the stuff. I use, and plan to use, plenty from those games because they are awesome and so we can consider the existence of puresteel canon for the quest as well. Plus Ithilmar and Silverine or whatever it is from Bretonnia. Gromril, obviously. So...maybe? We'll have to see. Not going to get, like, titanium, I don't think, but maybe something. The material that Alexandra is making is never going to be widespread, and neither will any hypothetical gold wizard-aided thing, but who knows.

I'm thinking on the Grenadier thing, still. Armament and the like.

I really don't know how well selling crossbows to Bretonnia would go. You'd only be selling to peasants, honestly, and they don't have the money to buy at anything less than a loss in terms of profit. The nobility, the majority at least, wouldn't like it much, I don't think. Well. Maybe you could sell to, like, the bandits n'such, but that doesn't seem like something Frederick would do.

People already spoke about why the need for different books.
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The quote is back from just before Turn 35. When our research backlog was a lot more heavy than it currently is. We had Off-Roading, Heavy Blastguns, Grenadier Suits, Vaporcyclers, Vapor Tanks, Titan Cannon, Imperial Organs, Big, and The Other Two Cannon Types, available in Turn 35. Now in Turn 39, we've reduced that down to Build a Vapor Tank, Imperial Organs, Big, Heavy Blastguns, and Vaporcyclers. I expect new stuff to be available in research in Turn 40, like building a soup tank!
 
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