I don't know if ogres really have any native spellcasters, thought firebellies were priests of the Maw, or the Fire Mouth which I hadn't heard about but google assures me exists, and the only other variant of ogres are the gorgers. I can't see how their situation is comparable.

They're both intense resource-eating races.

Yet one is spread out and thriving throughout an entire continent while the other is only limited to certain areas. Granted, I suppose the cold blooded and biology of the Fimir would be the main reason (You would think a cold blooded race like them would thrive in the southlands or warm/wet tropical areas like how the lizardman faction do.).
 
Now, to me, a 'golden age' (for them) Fimir Civilization would likely still be similar to that, just on a grander scale. Cities of dark stone and iron where the Mearghs rule as queens, the Dirachs as their councils, the Fimm as their elites, the Shearls as, well, everyone else. Possibly with subordinate Mearghs running districts of the cities, with their own Dirach Councils, within greater Ur-Clans, and individual Dhar-Mearghs as rulers. However, as their civilization and power degenerated, they collapsed further and further inward while maintaining a basic parallel to their previous civilizational structure.



Even when I'm not asking, I'm getting delicious ideas and aesthetic assistance. Ty kindly.
 
Almost like the lizardmen were actively hunting down the fimir and the orges were given a bountiful homeland full of food and weren't hunted down at all(for a while then the comet hit and the hornet nest was kicked and the massive population swarmed into the mountains) Also it not really worth it to compare them they are both 2 completely different races
 
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I don't know if ogres really have any native spellcasters, thought firebellies were priests of the Maw, or the Fire Mouth which I hadn't heard about but google assures me exists, and the only other variant of ogres are the gorgers. I can't see how their situation is comparable.
The Ogres have Butchers and Slaughtermasters who are spell casting priesthood. Their signature repertoire is the lore of the Great Maw, but some through emphasis on Animal slaughter or the killing process can cast from the beast or death spellbook. Some can also use the lore of the heavens, but I have no idea what cultural lens they use to access it.
 
The Ogres have Butchers and Slaughtermasters who are spell casting priesthood. Their signature repertoire is the lore of the Great Maw, but some through emphasis on Animal slaughter or the killing process can cast from the beast or death spellbook. Some can also use the lore of the heavens, but I have no idea what cultural lens they use to access it.

Well the Maw did come from the sky
 
The Ogres have Butchers and Slaughtermasters who are spell casting priesthood. Their signature repertoire is the lore of the Great Maw, but some through emphasis on Animal slaughter or the killing process can cast from the beast or death spellbook. Some can also use the lore of the heavens, but I have no idea what cultural lens they use to access it.
"Where do we find more food... *Visons of future food* we go there now!"
 
So instead of treading over Albion and it's impact and probably running into the details that will be covered in the epilogue; what do you think has happened on the mainland? This was a lightning fast campaign, but it still lasted weeks and Sabine had her grand opening soon. How has this intersected?
That's interesting. Why clean the swamps when you can simply kill the really important targets and leave them to risk kidnapping civilians or slowly fade away?
Why fight Bretonnia when you can just kill the knights and their families? Because as VIPs you'd have to fight everyone between you and them and are really hard to kill regardless.
 
So earlier comparison to fimir to ants wasn't that far off mark since like ants if their queen dies they are basically fucked as a colony, and we basically just wiped out all the queens and potential queen makers in one spot.


Even when I'm not asking, I'm getting delicious ideas and aesthetic assistance. Ty kindly.
Oh boy, now I feel bad for dwarfs of your quest.
The Ogres have Butchers and Slaughtermasters who are spell casting priesthood. Their signature repertoire is the lore of the Great Maw, but some through emphasis on Animal slaughter or the killing process can cast from the beast or death spellbook. Some can also use the lore of the heavens, but I have no idea what cultural lens they use to access it.
We know in quest that ogres can access different winds through their worship in various ways, like butcher that the twins killed that used the Amethyst Wind in own miracles.

Ogres are very adaptable, so while they don't have smarts to be wizards they can use Winds in other ways with enough belief and effort on their part.
They're both intense resource-eating races.

Yet one is spread out and thriving throughout an entire continent while the other is only limited to certain areas. Granted, I suppose the cold blooded and biology of the Fimir would be the main reason (You would think a cold blooded race like them would thrive in the southlands or warm/wet tropical areas like how the lizardman faction do.).
Fimir don't really match the ogres in their pure bloodied single-mindedness when pushed in general or breeding rates though, so they wouldn't survive in places like the Mountains of Mourn where the ogres thrive despite being a deathtrap.
So instead of treading over Albion and it's impact and probably running into the details that will be covered in the epilogue; what do you think has happened on the mainland? This was a lightning fast campaign, but it still lasted weeks and Sabine had her grand opening soon. How has this intersected?
Most likely have no idea that heirs were even gone!

As stated on turn results they basically finished campaign halfway through the year and all that was left was lots of patrolling for smaller groups of enemies, all of which was basically being done by itself as Magnus really organized the army very well. As far as the rest of the province knows he is still doing that and won't know different till they get home.
 
Our victory is complete. I just want an excuse to hire Albish mercs.

That won't happen if they don't have reasons to leave Albion.

Albion fimir is as good a bait as we can get.
They ain't gonna waste time trying and failing to hunt down more of these jerkasses elsewhere when they have a literal generations worth of rebuilding to do.
 
This talk of Ogres made me wonder about what they were like before Lavos showed up and wrecked their homeland and became their central guiding faith.

What kind of religion and culture and values and traditions did they have?

What were they like as a people?

What was it like to meet an Ogre way back when? Before the Maw, before the gnawing hunger, before the diaspora?
 
@torroar - I always figured Fimir fertility might tie into how heavily the Winds blow in any given area, and that the actions of Caledor, the Elves and maybe some Dwarf stuff in corralling the Winds drastically impacted their reproduction and sustainablity.
 
@torroar - I always figured Fimir fertility might tie into how heavily the Winds blow in any given area, and that the actions of Caledor, the Elves and maybe some Dwarf stuff in corralling the Winds drastically impacted their reproduction and sustainablity.

Mmm! This makes perfect sense as well. They're so intensely tied into the Winds of Magic that even the Shearls and Fimm are born with their special single eyes what can see the Winds with incredible ease - and without the mind-breaking of a Cygor. That sounds like it could also factor in quite easily, yeah. I think that it could also be the whole 'favor of the Chaos Gods' thing. What once may have been common rapidly became rare 'blessed births', things that they had to actively work towards, rather than just...have as a regular thing. It's a whole tangled situation, for sure.
 
So with so much discussion I might have missed it but this is a response to all the "colleges will be mad about the deaths"

On one hand yes. Losing strong mages always sucks as they are a limited recource, that being said... it's literally their job. Their whole existance in the empire is only tolerated becuase these mages go out and destroy the forces of EVULLL.

Secondly , they explicitly go out into new regions and learn new stuff and bring that knowledge back to the colleges. ( see our daughters and their mentor ) if anything teclis and the higher ups are gonna salivate over all this new lore
 
This talk of Ogres made me wonder about what they were like before Lavos showed up and wrecked their homeland and became their central guiding faith.

What kind of religion and culture and values and traditions did they have?

What were they like as a people?

What was it like to meet an Ogre way back when? Before the Maw, before the gnawing hunger, before the diaspora?

Well, from lore, a bit more civilized (I say it in the loosest term that they're amicable to other races at least.) but then someone idiot ate a human and found them tasty. This continued on until the Emperor of Cathay got sick of their crap, did a slan, and pulled a meteor onto their mountain which created the maw.

Some sources say it burrowed all the way to the otherside to form a maw at the sea but there's no confirmation on it.
 
This talk of Ogres made me wonder about what they were like before Lavos showed up and wrecked their homeland and became their central guiding faith.

What kind of religion and culture and values and traditions did they have?

What were they like as a people?

What was it like to meet an Ogre way back when? Before the Maw, before the gnawing hunger, before the diaspora?
I mean, don't the Cathay claim they dropped the comet on the ogres because they were still greedy eating machines? I mean, even Imperial ogres still eat a lot and took the teachings of Taal and Esmeralda to teach restraint.
Mmm! This makes perfect sense as well. They're so intensely tied into the Winds of Magic that even the Shearls and Fimm are born with their special single eyes what can see the Winds with incredible ease - and without the mind-breaking of a Cygor. That sounds like it could also factor in quite easily, yeah. I think that it could also be the whole 'favor of the Chaos Gods' thing. What once may have been common rapidly became rare 'blessed births', things that they had to actively work towards, rather than just...have as a regular thing. It's a whole tangled situation, for sure.
Certainly makes sense to me. After the Old Ones fled, polar gates destroyed and the Geomantic Web in disorder the fimir skyrocketed in power and influence, but after the making of the Vortex, the creation of the Waystones by elves and dwarfs, and even Albion itself basically becoming a giant waystone there was less Dhar/magic in the world in general that not only did it make it harder for daemons to be summoned and stay on material plane, but the magic using members of the fimir got born less since like said they have a deep connection with magic in general.

Make that magic harder to get, less magic users.
 
Well, shit looks like we won! Hooray! Though I feel bad Mena is sad and we lost so many folks...still we've fundamentally changed a small part of the balance of power in this world, Magnus damn well better get a new name for all this once he gets back home. Also at least Ulric seems to have found the Blue Wolves worthy and they can go down in history as heroes and not just as more mutants that needed to burn.
I hadn't explicitly spelled it out until now, but to my mind it makes sense. The Fimir are obviously an exceedingly top-heavy sort of race. The vast majority of their kind are Shearls, this is canon and known. Fimm Warriors are a separate caste, they are noticeably better equipped and larger. It's entirely possible for this to be partially a result of who gets what food and equipment, but it's also likely that they literally are just...birthed different, sort of like how ants have workers and fighters, or for a more Warhammer reference how stormvermin are born as blackfurs and clanrats..aren't. We also all know how valuable magic can be, so why would they not produce more Dirachs and Mearghs and whatever? Culturally, we know that in their current state in the timeline, a Meargh rules alone, any Meargh she births goes elsewhere to set up her own clan. Now, obviously this ties into inhuman mentalities, jealousy/envy/etc. worry over clashes for control and power. But given environmental concerns, pressures, etc. it is entirely likely that they don't over-produce them because they can't. Wouldn't you want to try and breed mostly Dirachs and Fimm, instead of just Shearls? And Mearghs? So there, naturally, has to be some sort of bottleneck. Partially resource based, partially because, I figure, there's a bit more that goes into it. If it was so easy for them to produce more Dirachs and Mearghs through the previously spoken very unfortunate alternative methods, then they should have way more than they have. Bounce-back should be far easier than it has been, i.e. possible in the first place.

But it adds up, they're pyramidal in levels of influence/power/strength. Mass of Shearls, atop which are the fewer but elite Fimm, atop which are the Dirach Cabal, atop which is the Meargh, the sole female and highest power over each individual Fimir Clan.

Anytime another Meargh is born, she is sent off elsewhere to have her own, separate Clan.

Now, to me, a 'golden age' (for them) Fimir Civilization would likely still be similar to that, just on a grander scale. Cities of dark stone and iron where the Mearghs rule as queens, the Dirachs as their councils, the Fimm as their elites, the Shearls as, well, everyone else. Possibly with subordinate Mearghs running districts of the cities, with their own Dirach Councils, within greater Ur-Clans, and individual Dhar-Mearghs as rulers. However, as their civilization and power degenerated, they collapsed further and further inward while maintaining a basic parallel to their previous civilizational structure.

It's noted time and again that Mearghs are, quite literally, the sole females of their race. There are no non-Meargh females. And it makes no sense, whatsoever, for them to be incapable of breeding up their previous true civilization beforehand if they were so direly dependent on humans. Because, again, the Fimir were BEFORE humans, it's when the humans showed up that things went to shit for the Fimir because they lost the favor of the Chaos Gods. So it quite simply is flat out impossible that they REQUIRE humans to build up fully, it's just that they CAN use humans.

But again, the problem with the Fimir building up their numbers majorly, rather than bitterly decaying and fading out, is that anytime they would try to do said build-up, they would get noticed. Fimir are pretty big, and require food and resources to maintain themselves, and any sufficiently large clan that would become a major threat would be treated as a major threat by the rest of the Old World, because after a certain point, people are going to start noticing them trying to range out for food. And I severely doubt them managing to perform some kind of wunder-agriculture in the swamps as they are. And unlike a hypothetical victorious Fimir on Albion scenario, they would never have a place of total defense to retreat to. Generally, Mearghs remain solely in their places of power, built up since they were first sent away by their mothers. On occasion, I'm sure that if a Meargh dies unexpectedly, her daughter can come back and reclaim the clan and add it to her own self-made one, thus creating a more powerful clan overall, and so on. But overall, Mearghs are hideously powerful, but are also vital to the functioning of their race. No Mearghs, and the Clan will begin dying out. Possibly the Dirachs could try a ritual to somehow manage to get a Meargh birthed through twisted methods, but efficacy is unknown, uncertain, but definitely unlikely.

So...yeah.
Yeah, this truly proves the Fimir are ancient as there's no way in hell this reproductive system would have worked had they evolved at the same time as humanity and the other Old one races did. The Fimir would have lost their magic caster potential a long time ago from sheer battle attrition had that been the case. The only logical answer is that at some point there were far, FAR more magic Fimir at one time probably first appearing thanks to a random Chaos mutation but they have been slowly killed off and now that the Chaos gods don't give a shit about them anymore they will never have that mutation happen again.
 
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I am reminded of Boney's quest, namely the academic side.

Can you imagine the sheer value in favors from papers surviving wizards will get?
-A land suffused in Winds and effects it has on casting.
-Less degraded giants.
-A full different magical tradition.
-Massive ritual utilizing all 8 winds.
-Equipment from the Old Ones.
-The unique Albionish waystone-equivalent (even if they couldn't get close).
-Fimir spellcasters.

Even if it all suffers from a Confidential malus, each position would be enough for a very solid paper.
After questioning, I imagine most of those wizards would spend next year or two just writing papers... and resting. Especially the latter.
Oh wait. They can't. Forgot about the Beastmen.
 
Well, shit looks like we won! Hooray! Though I feel bad Mena is sad and we lost so many folks...still we've fundamentally changed a small part of the balance of power in this world, Magnus damn well better get a new name for all this once he gets back home. Also at least Ulric seems to have found the Blue Wolves worthy and they can go down in history as heroes and not just as more mutants that needed to burn.

Yeah, this truly proves the Fimir are ancient as there's no way in hell this reproductive system would have worked had they evolved at the same time as humanity and the other Old one races did. The Fimir would have lost their magic caster potential a long time ago from sheer battle attrition had that been the case. The only logical answer is that at some point there were far, FAR more magic Fimir at one time probably first appearing thanks to a random Chaos mutation but they have been slowly killed off and now that the Chaos gods don't give a shit about them anymore they will never have that mutation happen again.
Or they are simply usually more careful with them. Think of it kind of like the Nids. The more powerful synaptic creatures can do a lot of damage in the battlefield but they are most useful in just directing everything. They only get involved in a fight when they are either desperately needed or caught by surprise.

They only get involved in a fight when they are either desperately needed or caught by surprise.

In this situation they were both they needed every magic caster for this super big ritual which if they pulled it off they would have won and they very much did not expect for everyone else to be able to actually get there. The Empire reinforcements came in out of nowhere like a goddamn wrecking ball and literally change the face of the combat providing both support and Impetus that the locals would not have had otherwise. Without the heirs they would've won flat out. And being in the center of their city is the most safe place on the island usually.

for both sides this was the do or die gambit. All of the chips were down and no Trump cards were left in reserve because this was the one bottle that would decide the fate of the island.

so yeah they would lose everything in the circumstance because they had to bet everything on the circumstance. under more usual circumstances and attack on the city even if successful wouldn't be as devastating because they wouldn't have gathered in such a numbers and more would have survived.
 
I forgot the Trident Meeting is a thing that has yet to be done, probably gonna be part of the epilogue, or rumor mill. The Trident Meeting is in Ostland this turn, right?
 
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