Still means that the fimir still have chance avoid going extinct much to the outrage of the rest of civilization at large

The Fimir are a steadily declining race, is the issue. They are way further down the slope than the elves or the dwarfs, and this was their main chance for major revitalization. Outside of Albion, the Fimir are isolated to single, tiny clans in the deepest swamps, with small moss-covered castles. Albion was their chance for a true revival of their civilization, and without it, they are doomed to continue slowly fading from the world.

Don't doubt your word as GM of course, just having a hard time understanding why total extinction of fimir on Albion is possible after this one event, even if it was a huge one, since they did survive on island for thousands of years beforehand and weren't as strong as they had been the last 100 years.

Please.
Wait.
For.
Epilogue.
 
The Fimir are a steadily declining race, is the issue. They are way further down the slope than the elves or the dwarfs, and this was their main chance for major revitalization. Outside of Albion, the Fimir are isolated to single, tiny clans in the deepest swamps, with small moss-covered castles. Albion was their chance for a true revival of their civilization, and without it, they are doomed to continue slowly fading from the world.



Please.
Wait.
For.
Epilogue.
Will do! Sorry for bugging you, didn't know you planned to address it in epilogue.
The Fimir are a steadily declining race, is the issue. They are way further down the slope than the elves or the dwarfs, and this was their main chance for major revitalization. Outside of Albion, the Fimir are isolated to single, tiny clans in the deepest swamps, with small moss-covered castles. Albion was their chance for a true revival of their civilization, and without it, they are doomed to continue slowly fading from the world.
Of course not complaining about this result.
 
The thing is, if ever a Fimir clan elsewhere in the world outside of Albion tried to, horrifically, really ramp up their numbers, people would immediately begin noticing. A Meargh can breed pretty consistently, as well. And so long as there's a Meargh and a single male, she can just pop out them eggs. But if they tried to try and ramp that up further with abuse of the chattel races (anyone who isn't them) then all of a sudden they have to deal with being actively hunted down.

The Fimir enjoy being 'the daemons in the mist' and what have you, that mystique and horror on a sort of story/myth level, because on the one hand they enjoy causing fear to their lessers, but also because it is a legitimate defense on a psychological level to interlopers.

But if you strip that away, that perception of 'maybe they're not even real, but if they are in there, they're spooky and just stay out of the swamp' then they rather suddenly got slotted into a different category. Because that's when they become a tangible foe, a physically present target. And sure, it might suck like shit to go have to hunt them down in the swamps, but you know what? So is hunting down the beastmen every single year, and the greenskins every single year, and so on and so on. Or going and hunting down a necromancer in his tower. It's a case of the Empire, for instance, switching from superstitious avoidance to aggressive religious pursuit.

If they ever tried that sort of thing on a large enough scale to start trying to even begin the conception of a foundation of what they had on Albion, then they get armies smashing down their castles and cannons/spells/steel/etc. coming at them in far greater numbers than they could realistically ever possess in an individual main world clan.
 
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The Fimir enjoy being 'the daemons in the mist' and what have you, that mystique and horror on a sort of story/myth level, because on the one hand they enjoy causing fear to their lessers, but also because it is a legitimate defense on a psychological level to interlopers.

But if you strip that away, that perception of 'maybe they're not even real, but if they are in there, they're spooky and just stay out of the swamp' then they rather suddenly got slotted into a different category. Because that's when they become a tangible foe, a physically present target. And sure, it might suck like shit to go have to hunt them down in the swamps, but you know what? So is hunting down the beastmen every single year, and the greenskins every single year, and so on and so on. Or going and hunting down a necromancer in his tower. It's a case of the Empire, for instance, switching from superstitious avoidance to aggressive religious pursuit.

are there any Fimir in Ostland or the rest of the Trident and if so does that mean we get to have an action next turn to helping the Frimir along to get into a whole new and exciting category for their misbegotten kind , the very much almost completely extinct species category hopefully soon to be joined by the beastmen
 
are there any Fimir in Ostland or the rest of the Trident and if so does that mean we get to have an action next turn to helping the Frimir along to get into a whole new intersecting category for their misbegotten kind , the very much almost completely extinct species category hopefully soon to be joined by the beastmen
I mean, I have no problem with focusing killing fimir if that is what heirs want, but unlike them the beastmen will likely never be extinct since they can breed much faster. Not on same level of greenskins and skaven, but a close third since they are mainly mutated humans and animals unlike fimir which are their own race in general.
 
If I remember right the fimir in the empire hangs out in large swamps, so the Wasteland for sure, and maybe the fens and swamps of Ostermark, Sylvania and Stirland. Probably other places too. Don't think that flavour of horror is that prevalent in Ostland, just on account on there not being a lot of swamps. Might be super wrong about that though.
 
I wish some Fimir got away. Perhaps whisked away to all the corners of the old world. Reinforcing all the weak clans with fresh blood and discipline.

They had plenty of castles. Just gotta get the heck out of dodge.

Might even give the Albish a reason to come out of Albion early. Hunting those bastards to extinction.
 
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I suspect that some might have crept back in over the years, so that's sorta confirmation that the local environment suits them to me.
Yah but remember their not a expanding population they are declining race so the other don't have excess population to migrate and create new clans(also I don't think ostland and kislev have any so they can't migrate from any nearby places)
 
Yah but remember their not a expanding population they are declining race so the other don't have excess population to migrate and create new clans(also I don't think ostland and kislev have any so they can't migrate from any nearby places)
Ostermark borders Talabecland to the west, which I don't think have a significant fimir population, but it also borders Stirland and Sylvania to the south, which both have some marshland. Might be that they couldn't survive in Sylvania since the vampires might not have wanted them on their turf, but I could also just see the horribleness coexisting just to make the place an even bigger lair of darkness than it otherwise was. Wouldn't be surprised if there's a population in Kislev either, but I doubt it is in the south in the Shirokij forest that borders Ostermark or around the cities of southern Kislev.
 
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Might be that they couldn't survive in Sylvania since the vampires might not have wanted them on their turf, but I could also just see the horribleness coexisting just to make the place an even bigger lair of darkness than it otherwise was.
There were some fimir in Sylvania, but they appear to have been wiped out in the purge.
"Heard there were one or two in Sylvania, during that campaign...and that it was lucky the Supreme Patriarch was around
 
Ostermark borders Talabecland to the west, which I don't think have a significant fimir population, but it also borders Stirland and Sylvania to the south, which both have some marshland. Might be that they couldn't survive in Sylvania since the vampires might not have wanted them on their turf, but I could also just see the horribleness coexisting just to make the place an even bigger lair of darkness than it otherwise was.
according to the wiki The Fimir are cyclopean amphibious humanoid monsters that haunt bogs, fens and desolate moorlands throughout the northern and western Old World.
So they mainly exist in those areas so their are only at most prob a couple in those other areas
 
I wish some Fimir got away. Perhaps whisked away to all the corners of the old world. Reinforcing all the weak clans with fresh blood and discipline.

They...literally can't? They have no Dirachs and no Mearghs left. And only a Meargh can give birth to a Meargh or Dirach. Other...methods...only result in more Shearls or Fimm.

All of the Mearghs on Albion were all there. They had the whole 'Retreat, in our moment of triumph?' moment when the Albish and Imperials showed up, not that you ever got to see that. There's no reason for them to try and 'whisk away' anyone, let alone an actual method. They have no boats, and it's absolutely certain that Chaos isn't going to bless them with spontaneous portals through the Realm of Chaos to elsewhere that they would survive utilizing.

At most, the Fimir of Albion that survive the battle are going to fight until their last breath over...however long it takes, that's...yeah.

That's sort of the whole point of this being a big victory, is that the Fimir lose real bad.
 
They...literally can't? They have no Dirachs and no Mearghs left. And only a Meargh can give birth to a Meargh or Dirach. Other...methods...only result in more Shearls or Fimm.
That I must have missed at some point if mentioned earlier, or forgot, but certainly explains things more for me. I had thought that a Meargh or a Dirach could be birthed from lower grade fimir, just that it was super rare, but apparently that is not case.

Its more like only a queen can spawn a queen kinda deal. Clears things up.
All of the Mearghs on Albion were all there. They had the whole 'Retreat, in our moment of triumph?' moment when the Albish and Imperials showed up, not that you ever got to see that.
Hehehe, I love it when enemy is overconfident like that, makes they fall funnier.
 
They...literally can't? They have no Dirachs and no Mearghs left. And only a Meargh can give birth to a Meargh or Dirach. Other...methods...only result in more Shearls or Fimm.

All of the Mearghs on Albion were all there. They had the whole 'Retreat, in our moment of triumph?' moment when the Albish and Imperials showed up, not that you ever got to see that. There's no reason for them to try and 'whisk away' anyone, let alone an actual method. They have no boats, and it's absolutely certain that Chaos isn't going to bless them with spontaneous portals through the Realm of Chaos to elsewhere that they would survive utilizing.

At most, the Fimir of Albion that survive the battle are going to fight until their last breath over...however long it takes, that's...yeah.

That's sort of the whole point of this being a big victory, is that the Fimir lose real bad.

So a campaign against Fimir that focuses on sniping Females would eventually drive them to extinction, or a least would make them lose forever their magic potential

That's interesting. Why clean the swamps when you can simply kill the really important targets and leave them to risk kidnapping civilians or slowly fade away?
 
well I think it was the right play though and if it wasn't for mangus being their then their a good chance that they would have won since no one could get through the shield
 
Here's to the Greatswords and Wolves and the battles that they have won!

Here's to the Empire's colors, the colors that never run!

May the wings of the gryphon never lose a feather!
 
They...literally can't? They have no Dirachs and no Mearghs left. And only a Meargh can give birth to a Meargh or Dirach. Other...methods...only result in more Shearls or Fimm.

All of the Mearghs on Albion were all there. They had the whole 'Retreat, in our moment of triumph?' moment when the Albish and Imperials showed up, not that you ever got to see that. There's no reason for them to try and 'whisk away' anyone, let alone an actual method. They have no boats, and it's absolutely certain that Chaos isn't going to bless them with spontaneous portals through the Realm of Chaos to elsewhere that they would survive utilizing.

At most, the Fimir of Albion that survive the battle are going to fight until their last breath over...however long it takes, that's...yeah.

That's sort of the whole point of this being a big victory, is that the Fimir lose real bad.
Then I hope that a few manage to hide. Albion without the gribbles just isn't the same.


Also I now want to see the"retreat in our moment of triumph? " conversation. Sounds like a really satisfying epic fail.

Tzeentch would be laughing his feathered ass off.
 
I hadn't explicitly spelled it out until now, but to my mind it makes sense. The Fimir are obviously an exceedingly top-heavy sort of race. The vast majority of their kind are Shearls, this is canon and known. Fimm Warriors are a separate caste, they are noticeably better equipped and larger. It's entirely possible for this to be partially a result of who gets what food and equipment, but it's also likely that they literally are just...birthed different, sort of like how ants have workers and fighters, or for a more Warhammer reference how stormvermin are born as blackfurs and clanrats..aren't. We also all know how valuable magic can be, so why would they not produce more Dirachs and Mearghs and whatever? Culturally, we know that in their current state in the timeline, a Meargh rules alone, any Meargh she births goes elsewhere to set up her own clan. Now, obviously this ties into inhuman mentalities, jealousy/envy/etc. worry over clashes for control and power. But given environmental concerns, pressures, etc. it is entirely likely that they don't over-produce them because they can't. Wouldn't you want to try and breed mostly Dirachs and Fimm, instead of just Shearls? And Mearghs? So there, naturally, has to be some sort of bottleneck. Partially resource based, partially because, I figure, there's a bit more that goes into it. If it was so easy for them to produce more Dirachs and Mearghs through the previously spoken very unfortunate alternative methods, then they should have way more than they have. Bounce-back should be far easier than it has been, i.e. possible in the first place.

But it adds up, they're pyramidal in levels of influence/power/strength. Mass of Shearls, atop which are the fewer but elite Fimm, atop which are the Dirach Cabal, atop which is the Meargh, the sole female and highest power over each individual Fimir Clan.

Anytime another Meargh is born, she is sent off elsewhere to have her own, separate Clan.

Now, to me, a 'golden age' (for them) Fimir Civilization would likely still be similar to that, just on a grander scale. Cities of dark stone and iron where the Mearghs rule as queens, the Dirachs as their councils, the Fimm as their elites, the Shearls as, well, everyone else. Possibly with subordinate Mearghs running districts of the cities, with their own Dirach Councils, within greater Ur-Clans, and individual Dhar-Mearghs as rulers. However, as their civilization and power degenerated, they collapsed further and further inward while maintaining a basic parallel to their previous civilizational structure.

It's noted time and again that Mearghs are, quite literally, the sole females of their race. There are no non-Meargh females. And it makes no sense, whatsoever, for them to be incapable of breeding up their previous true civilization beforehand if they were so direly dependent on humans. Because, again, the Fimir were BEFORE humans, it's when the humans showed up that things went to shit for the Fimir because they lost the favor of the Chaos Gods. So it quite simply is flat out impossible that they REQUIRE humans to build up fully, it's just that they CAN use humans.

But again, the problem with the Fimir building up their numbers majorly, rather than bitterly decaying and fading out, is that anytime they would try to do said build-up, they would get noticed. Fimir are pretty big, and require food and resources to maintain themselves, and any sufficiently large clan that would become a major threat would be treated as a major threat by the rest of the Old World, because after a certain point, people are going to start noticing them trying to range out for food. And I severely doubt them managing to perform some kind of wunder-agriculture in the swamps as they are. And unlike a hypothetical victorious Fimir on Albion scenario, they would never have a place of total defense to retreat to. Generally, Mearghs remain solely in their places of power, built up since they were first sent away by their mothers. On occasion, I'm sure that if a Meargh dies unexpectedly, her daughter can come back and reclaim the clan and add it to her own self-made one, thus creating a more powerful clan overall, and so on. But overall, Mearghs are hideously powerful, but are also vital to the functioning of their race. No Mearghs, and the Clan will begin dying out. Possibly the Dirachs could try a ritual to somehow manage to get a Meargh birthed through twisted methods, but efficacy is unknown, uncertain, but definitely unlikely.

So...yeah.
 
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It's kind of weird that Ogres don't have this kind of drawbacks while the Fimir does.

Then again, Mearghs/Fimm/Dirachs are pretty top-tier in their own ways that Ogres can't really compete in. Particularly in the magic section.
 
Hmm so you could say the Fimir are sort of like inverse Skaven, in that their breeding females are not just the foundation of their populations, but also their leaders which inherently limits them in the way Skaven are not limited. A skaven clan without a breeder might be able to make one by some sort of sorcery and be fine with it, but a Fimir clan would have the issue that their unstable and mutated experiment in chaos magic is now supposed to be the boss.
 
It's kind of weird that Ogres don't have this kind of drawbacks while the Fimir does.

Then again, Mearghs/Fimm/Dirachs are pretty top-tier in their own ways that Ogres can't really compete in. Particularly in the magic section.
I don't know if ogres really have any native spellcasters, thought firebellies were priests of the Maw, or the Fire Mouth which I hadn't heard about but google assures me exists, and the only other variant of ogres are the gorgers. I can't see how their situation is comparable.
 
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