Since people were talking about GW possibly re-working Warhammer to continue beyond the End-times, I was reminded of a random thought I had a while back. What do people think Mallus, specifically the Old World, would look like in the equivalent of modern times, where things are just really different from the post-renaissance proto-industrial age it currently exists as?
 
- Cult of Morr: 8/10
I would have been disappointed otherwise.

Since people were talking about GW possibly re-working Warhammer to continue beyond the End-times, I was reminded of a random thought I had a while back. What do people think Mallus, specifically the Old World, would look like in the equivalent of modern times, where things are just really different from the post-renaissance proto-industrial age it currently exists as?
I dunno. It's not really relevant to this thread. If you'd like I could give you a link to some threads to discuss that on SB, not familiar with those on SV?
 
I dunno. It's not really relevant to this thread. If you'd like I could give you a link to some threads to discuss that on SB, not familiar with those on SV?

Eh, like I said, it was just a random thought. I think it has potential to be an interesting setting, but the only reason I brought it up was because someone mentioned a timeline that continues past the 'Endtimes', and eventually that could lead to a modern setting. But if people in this thread aren't interested in talking about this, I'm fine with letting it die. Thank you though.
 
Flashbacks and internal monologues aren't psychotic disassociations. They're a writing tool to introduce past history or convey observations or information.

And the tricky thing in writing is switching narration perspectives, not in... whatever this made up claims stuff was.

Um. I think that's just called "switching between third person and first/second person POV in writing"? (I forget the exact definitions and meanings and usages of 1st/2nd/3rd person narration, and the various descriptions/methods/usages of internal monologuing, bah.) And "inserting flashbacks into a scene in order to introduce and cover past history that the reader may not be aware of"?

It starts off with an omniscient narrative overview (okay not literally omniscient, but, you know what I mean) that describes the history of the place. Then it switches to describing it from Johanna's perspective, and has Johanna brood over bad memories. She doesn't psychotically disassociate, she just reminisces over bad memories!

This sounds like another Kislev conspiracy theorist moment. (Rather than "It's literally just Kiev with two more letters" which everybody else who looks at it for two seconds, or two hours, assumes.)

Thank you for pointing out a reason why people don't use Dementia writing more often.

Also no it's not a simple flashback. Joahnna specifically in this part:

Johanna hated it.

"I never did make it here last time," Genevieve murmured, her voice so quiet that only a vampire's ears could catch it, and even then, Johanna had to strain. "Master Po took me away from the cities and towns, save when absolutely necessary as he journeyed about. Rightfully cautious, I suppose."

"Mmm."

"But you…you've been here before, haven't you," Genevieve continued, her voice completely controlled, utterly calm.

Which was a feat, considering the guards that were surrounding them on all sides. Each of the Palace Guard possessed heartbeats, to be sure, but all twelve of them had no doubt been extensively trained and equipped precisely to be deserving of their positions. For all the nepotism that might exist within Cathay, the Dragon Emperors quite simply refused to have anything but the best when it came to the ranks of the Golden Ten Thousand. Those who escorted them through the palace did not speak, their boots thumping loudly upon the jade and marble floors, the sight of them enough to part the crowds like a ship cutting through the sea. Though eleven of the guards were impassive, near inhumanely stoic, the twelfth who happened to be standing directly behind Johanna was practically melting his eyeballs staring at the back of her head.

"…yes, master," Johanna finally replied, ignoring the glare behind her.

She did not have fond memories of the Jade Palace anymore. There used to be, but they had all long since become soured and retroactively unhappy things. And, given the guard behind her, at least some still remembered when she had been here last. One would think that impossible, given the amount of time since then, but then again, those who rose high within the Celestial Empire often benefitted from the various elixirs and pills created by the royal alchemists. Said alchemists, in turn, benefitted from Dragon Emperors themselves granting them the use of the blood of the dragon. Ping had nearly…damn it.

"Halt," one of the Palace Guard barked, the entire formation and thus those within it freezing immediately.

The doors were just as Johanna remembered them. Stretching to the height of a Bonegrinder and wide enough for a main city street thoroughfare, the shaped slabs of pure jade were intricately engraved and painted to display many of the most important moments of Cathay's history. The First Celestial Dragon Emperor, or at least that was what it was presumed to be, stretched throughout the entire work of battles and deeds, cities founded, and discoveries made, for despite being long gone – or long slumbering by the reckoning of some theorists – without him the whole of Greater Cathay would not have become as powerful as it had. One giant stood at each door, and though neither were Bonegrinders they had the potential to live long enough to become such. By Johanna's reckoning, given the utterly massive guandao they bore, the armor that sheathed their bodies, the lack of hunch to their frame and the dangerously bright spark in their eyes, they likely certainly would. Each had been installed within the palace as the Final Guards of the Gate – though it lost something when translated to Reikspiel – by the Empress Huang a full five centuries ago, her last act before being succeeded by her son and departing 'to the Heavens once more'.

Today, though, the gates were opened, the gargantuan levers the giants used to open and close it already utilized. As such, the reason they had halted was instead because they had to wait for permission. Quite simply put, none ventured within the Royal Hall of the Celestial Dragon Emperors without permission. It was a fatal decision to attempt to do so otherwise. Said hall could also fit the entirety of the Imperial Court and the Golden Ten Thousand all at once, though such an occasion rarely occurred. Still, a hundred more of the Palace Guard approached them down the massive length, made small by the massive pillars which held up the ceiling and the banners created by teams of dozens of weavers and dyers which hung from the walls.

"Who approaches the throne of the Celestial Dragon Emperor, the Son of Heaven, Guardian of Cathay, Lord of Sky and Earth…,"

Johanna tuned out the spiel as she glanced around. It really, really hadn't changed much. It should have been more shocking to her, but then again she might well have gotten a bit more used to things being inviolable to the passage of time than she used to be. Still, she wasn't so lost in her memories that she didn't begin moving again when the rest of the guards did, eventually wrenching her eyes forward and welding them in place with willpower as they walked along the lushly carpeted path. The Throne itself was magical – she hadn't known that last time. It was only her nature as a vampire now which let her see the immense power woven through its entire frame, though perhaps that was simply a result of being the seat of choice for the Dragon Emperors for thousands and thousands of years? As it was, the bloody thing took up the entire wall, spiraling artwork and carvings spreading from wall to wall, and from ceiling to floor, all centering upon the absolutely enormous length of the 'seat' portion proper.

And yet, all of it, all the artwork, the tapestries, the decorations, were easily missed because of the one who sat upon the throne.

is slowly disassociating while under the effect of what is basically PTSD from her last stay in Cathay as the memories of her life in Cathay start to flood back in. She's having a mild psychotic episode while walking to the throne.
 
Thank you for pointing out a reason why people don't use Dementia writing more often.

Also no it's not a simple flashback. Joahnna specifically in this part:



is slowly disassociating while under the effect of what is basically PTSD from her last stay in Cathay as the memories of her life in Cathay start to flood back in. She's having a mild psychotic episode while walking to the throne.

I can... kind of see it? Like, she explicitly notes that her newfound inhumanity is starting to influence her thought process on the passage of time.
 
Thank you for pointing out a reason why people don't use Dementia writing more often.

Also no it's not a simple flashback. Joahnna specifically in this part:

is slowly disassociating while under the effect of what is basically PTSD from her last stay in Cathay as the memories of her life in Cathay start to flood back in. She's having a mild psychotic episode while walking to the throne.
I'm not seeing it, man. That's not psychotic disassociation. That's just describing the surroundings, and also being gloomy over past memories of the last time you visited this place.

It's... it's literally just a person comparing their present visit and circumstances, to unpleasant memories and circumstances of the last time they were there?

It's not such a specific writing technique so much as... as just writing.

EDIT:
Thank you for pointing out a reason why people don't use Dementia writing more often.
That's not the reason, and that's not dementia writing.

I'm just saying that switching from one perspective to another, and making it look smooth, is a thing that writers can fuck up. It has nothing to do with this specific writing technique you think exists, it's just... writing, again.
 
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I'm not seeing it, man. That's not psychotic disassociation. That's just describing the surroundings, and also being gloomy over past memories of the last time you visited this place.

It's... it's literally just a person comparing their present visit and circumstances, to unpleasant memories and circumstances of the last time they were there?

It's not such a specific writing technique so much as... as just writing.

Sigh. Fair enough. If you feel like you actually want to do it go back to the Black Thorns side-story and reread it then read the newest interlude again and see if you can tell how much of it is written the same way Black Thorns was. I don't know what else to say other than that on this topic since I already gave a definition and other examples.
 
@Dmol8

I think that these weird things like "dementia writing" you come up with are functionally indistinguishable from "random stuff I just made up a name for, but that already has a name or isn't really so much a recognizable special technique, as just a combination of known techniques used in routine normal ways."

Or possibly not stuff you made up, but rather "random stuff that my friend with an eclectic and limited reference pool and little direct education in literature made up to describe something that already has a name, et cetera."

You have a consistent aptitude for seeing patterns that just... aren't there. Shapes in the clouds, constellations in the raindrops on the windowpane... and then you give them names and talk about them as if they were real like the solid objects others perceive.
 
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TBF, maybe these are named concepts, just not in English. Dmol8's profile say's he's located in Serbia - if these terms and theories he keeps bringing up are known to the Serbian literary community but haven't migrated into the English-language literary community, then it's not surprising that most of us Anglophones don't find anything when we search for English-language sources describing them.
 
@Dmol8

I think that these weird things like "dementia writing" you come up with are functionally indistinguishable from "random stuff I just made up a name for, but that already has a name or isn't really so much a recognizable special technique, as just a combination of known techniques used in routine normal ways."

Or possibly not stuff you made up, but rather "random stuff that my friend with an eclectic and limited reference pool and little direct education in literature made up to describe something that already has a name, et cetera."

You have a consistent aptitude for seeing patterns that just... aren't there. Shapes in the clouds, constellations in the raindrops on the windowpane... and then you give them names and talk about them as if they were real like the solid objects others perceive.

OK first of all these are not my patterns. I specifically know and used an English phrase for this, just a really obscure one because there isn't a more known one.

Second of all Dementia writing isn't simply a combination of known techniques used in routine normal ways. It is a combination of known techniques that seem to be used in normal routine ways when looked at and yet when that specific combination is sought out on the net it is neither routine nor normal in numbers it is found. It is for some reason exotic. I have no idea why this is because when people read a piece of Dementia writing they see it as normal and routine.

TBF, maybe these are named concepts, just not in English. Dmol8's profile say's he's located in Serbia - if these terms and theories he keeps bringing up are known to the Serbian literary community but haven't migrated into the English-language literary community, then it's not surprising that most of us Anglophones don't find anything when we search for English-language sources describing them.

I've already said that this particular example has an obscurely named concept in English. I'll get to the other examples later and why they are and are not known and to which part. As for what is it known in Serbian? Proklet like from Prokleta Avlija by Ivo Andrić.

So basic translation would be Cursed or Doomed or Damned depending on how you want to translate it, but that doesn't get at the essence of the writing style. Could also be translated as Hell Cauldron, but I went with an English term I already knew that worked and that didn't have the connotations of a guaranteed bad end to a story for what I was trying to describe. I didn't expect for people to find it too obscure to be of use.
 
Johanna is not dissociating, and I can't believe I have to point this out. She's just zoning out, like many people do when they turn introspective about something while in the middle of a normal activity and start running through things on autopilot while they think.
 
OK first of all these are not my patterns. I specifically know and used an English phrase for this, just a really obscure one because there isn't a more known one.
Which is why I point out the possibility that you're not the one making things up... but someone else, essentially, is- that they're coming up with weird names for things that aren't as distinctive a category as you think they are. Or, alternatively...

Second of all Dementia writing isn't simply a combination of known techniques used in routine normal ways. It is a combination of known techniques that seem to be used in normal routine ways when looked at and yet when that specific combination is sought out on the net it is neither routine nor normal in numbers it is found. It is for some reason exotic. I have no idea why this is because when people read a piece of Dementia writing they see it as normal and routine.
What makes you think it is exotic? And if so, why do you think this piece of writing by Torroar is an example of the type? I'm still not clear on this.

There's nothing in Torroar's recent piece that strikes me as being some special style that, to quote you, "characterizes a sense agitation, psychosis, dissociation and disorientation." Johanna is certainly agitated, in that she's afraid of the powerful emperor she's dealing with, and she's certainly distressed, but the writing style and narration don't change much to reflect this.

This is just a viewpoint character who's feeling stress and fear; it's not something unusual.

I've already said that this particular example has an obscurely named concept in English. I'll get to the other examples later and why they are and are not known and to which part. As for what is it known in Serbian? Proklet like from Prokleta Avlija by Ivo Andrić.

So basic translation would be Cursed or Doomed or Damned depending on how you want to translate it, but that doesn't get at the essence of the writing style. Could also be translated as Hell Cauldron, but I went with an English term I already knew that worked and that didn't have the connotations of a guaranteed bad end to a story for what I was trying to describe. I didn't expect for people to find it too obscure to be of use.
I think this may be a case where the customs of Serbian-language literature give you different ideas about what is "normal," and so you feel like you need special names for things that aren't very special in English-language literature.
 
Do we already have a place adapted to the needs of our mages?
Not a college but a kind of laboratory where they could do their work and their research in ideal and safe conditions.
 
Do we already have a place adapted to the needs of our mages?
Not a college but a kind of laboratory where they could do their work and their research in ideal and safe conditions.
The College in Hochland more or less serves that function, since only the Colleges in Altdorf can train mages.
 
Do we already have a place adapted to the needs of our mages?
Not a college but a kind of laboratory where they could do their work and their research in ideal and safe conditions.
The College in Hochland more or less serves that function, since only the Colleges in Altdorf can train mages.
Come to think of it, what would it take to start an Ostland College of Sorcery, @torroar? Something like the Imperial Favour we used to create the Third Fleet or just sufficient connections with enough of the Colleges of Magic in Altdorf?
 
It would take the assent of all the other provinces combined to allow you to gain access to the now recognized and appreciated benefits that a close source of wizards could bring. Hochland got away with it at the beginning because Great War aside, they hadn't proved themselves much. That has changed in the time since, there was a rumor post somewhere, accounting for the arcane I believe. Now people know how much Jade Wizards are worth in the fields, that Gold Wizards can melt the armor off of the greenskins and weapons out of the beastmen's hands, and so on and so forth.
 
It would take the assent of all the other provinces combined to allow you to gain access to the now recognized and appreciated benefits that a close source of wizards could bring. Hochland got away with it at the beginning because Great War aside, they hadn't proved themselves much. That has changed in the time since, there was a rumor post somewhere, accounting for the arcane I believe. Now people know how much Jade Wizards are worth in the fields, that Gold Wizards can melt the armor off of the greenskins and weapons out of the beastmen's hands, and so on and so forth.


Freddy -" we dont need all the wizards. Just the green ones and the scary purple ones."

"Are you sur-"

"Gib. Me. Healers. And. Death. Dealers"
 
So i've been reading this quest and it's been great, but WOW.
Blood of a champion, blood of the one who burned so bright that on his last visit a protesting acolyte of the Light Order had protested that no one who was not born gifted should be as such, who they got rid of because how dare that bitch say that.

They would never find her bones, because there had been no bones to find.
This is pretty much an unforgivable crime, the sheer shame at having failed his daughters to the point where they would do this is slayer worthy.

The only mitigating factor would be their age, but even then...
 
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???

They were six. They were sent to the college at five. They literally hadn't gotten to the point in education of murder bad. Even for the Hohenzollerns, seriously discussing death and bloodshed doesn't start until seven/eightish, even if picking out a weapon can be around six or so. Plus, they were being trained at the Amethyst College, where the whole thing is that things die. And were born paradoxically inundated with the Purple Wind, the Wind of Endings, as a result of the circumstances of their conception.

Plus, it's not the worst thing that wizards have done to people. I don't really get the 'failing his daughters' aspect of your words. I mean, yeah, they killed someone. That someone was also advocating that Frederick be peeled open to see what's going on, which the sisters did not fully understand but understood enough. They're macabre and creepy, but not beyond ethics and morality...now that they've been instructed on it, you know, as adults? Rather than ignorant children?

So...yeah. Shame at failing his daughters? Nnnnno. I just...kinda don't see it that way.
 
This is pretty much an unforgivable crime, the sheer shame at having failed his daughters to the point where they would do this is slayer worthy.

The only mitigating factor would be their age, but even then...
Who is the "he" here? Freddy gave his daughters to the college because they were supposed to teach (and by extension raise since the death college normally forces you to cut ties and Frederick couldn't see them often for various reasons) That includes things like basic morals. If they fucked up to the point where murder seems reasonable, then that's on the college.
 
So i've been reading this quest and it's been great, but WOW.

This is pretty much an unforgivable crime, the sheer shame at having failed his daughters to the point where they would do this is slayer worthy.

The only mitigating factor would be their age, but even then...
Keep in mind the acolyte was trying to get us unseated as Elector count and thrown into the College as a guinea pig, or worse. That'd be something that would make most of our family outright hostile. And these were children whose grasp on morality and ethics were tenuous at best until well into their adulthood. What should be more concerning is that they are apparently strong enough to take out an Acolyte as ankle biters.
 
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So...yeah. Shame at failing his daughters? Nnnnno. I just...kinda don't see it that way.

Beeing seeped in the Wind of Endings is probably not that conductive to innately sensing that 'murder is bad'. The same way a kid in the Amber College would not really be aware that sleeping with the bears in the woods when you are bored of academic courses is wrong. It's just that Shysh is the most socially problematic of the winds.
 
Keep in mind the acolyte was trying to get us unseated as Elector count and thrown into the College as a guinea pig, or worse. That'd be something that would make most of our family outright hostile. And these were children whose grasp on morality and ethics were tenuous at best until well into their adulthood. What should be more concerning is that they are apparently strong enough to take out an Acolyte as ankle biters.
In fairness, the acolyte also apparently didn't realize we were an Elector Count and not just some weird mercenary. Back then, and even now Freddy doesn't really look or act like what you expect an Elector Count to look or act like.
 
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